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Question For The Prairie Muffins


roknrolr
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I really did mean it when I said I would pray for you.
Well then, here is a good place to focus your prayers. --> CLICK HERE.

 

G'head'an clear that thread up, then go 'round prayin' for everyone else, m'kay? :Hmm:

 

Thank you.

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I didn't really mean to get everyone riled up :eek: I posted this in the Lion's Den intending to get an answer from the Christians.

 

 

It's not YOU roknroler.....it's the whole 'prairie muffin' concept that just pisses us off. It's a horrifying backwards view of womanhood that should rightly piss the fuck off out of anyone who believes they are a human being and should be treated as one.

 

Riling everyone up is cool. Don't sweat it. Welcome!

 

And joythruchrist....

What I can't understand is why I've been roasted already, and I just got here. Did I do something to any of you, or is it just that I believe in God?

 

Don't you just wish we 'roasted' you because of your faith? That would be an 'easy' explanation....wouldn't it? One you could understand anyway.

 

See....when we see a new christian in here, and they make their first post....we often come on hard...just to see what you are made of (not your religion...YOU). If you lash back with christian-eze or bible verses.....we eat you. Becasue such responses are LEARNED responses...the standard apologetic formula (we are very familiar with it) that don't actually require thought or analysis. And we have NO respect for parrots. None. If you aren't willing to critically examine your own beliefs, you might not want to stick around (note I said nothing about changing your beliefs....I said critically examine them).

 

I don't agree that my "religion" (and I don't call it religion) is suppressive to females.

 

Let me guess...you consider it a "relationship" right? Okay....if it's not a religion, then the building you all go to to celebrate your "relationship"....they don't accept any tax breaks right? Your minister has a second job that he uses to pay for his house...right? Cut the crap. It's a religion. Doesn't matter how you personally feel about it.

 

Jesus came at a time that culture was very suppressive to females and He lifted them up to an equal level with men. He treated them with honor; even the women who were societal outcasts.

 

Really?

 

Matthew 27:55 - Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs.

 

If Jesus 'lifted them up to an equal level with men' just what "needs" are these women taking care of that he cannot do for himself? Why doesn Jesus not ask them NOT to do this?

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I don't know about this "Pug" person, but I'm not a "name it and claim it" person. I don't pray like God is a genie in a bottle to do my wishes.

 

I pray as he told the disciples to pray, that His will is done.

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Jesus came at a time that culture was very suppressive to females and He lifted them up to an equal level with men. He treated them with honor; even the women who were societal outcasts.

Really?

 

Matthew 27:55 - Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs.

 

If Jesus 'lifted them up to an equal level with men' just what "needs" are these women taking care of that he cannot do for himself? Why doesn Jesus not ask them NOT to do this?

What about that chick that was askin' Big J for help, and he was like, "What say ye, bitch? Bringeth thine ass away from me until I find it well to helpeth your sorry ass."

 

.... or something like that, anyway. :shrug:

 

 

Yeah, he treated her as equal alright. :Hmm:

 

:Wendywhatever:

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And joythruchrist....

I don't agree that my "religion" (and I don't call it religion) is suppressive to females.

 

Let me guess...you consider it a "relationship" right? Okay....if it's not a religion, then the building you all go to to celebrate your "relationship"....they don't accept any tax breaks right? Your minister has a second job that he uses to pay for his house...right? Cut the crap. It's a religion. Doesn't matter how you personally feel about it.

 

 

 

Jesus came at a time that culture was very suppressive to females and He lifted them up to an equal level with men. He treated them with honor; even the women who were societal outcasts.

 

Really?

 

Matthew 27:55 - Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs.

 

If Jesus 'lifted them up to an equal level with men' just what "needs" are these women taking care of that he cannot do for himself? Why doesn Jesus not ask them NOT to do this?

 

I don't "attend church" in a building.

 

They did so because they wanted to. I would have done the same. And for a few examples of Jesus treating women with respect, I'll just list the references since you have access to a Bible. Mark 5:25-34, Luke 7:37-50, Luke 10:38-42 (Jesus praised Mary for NOT serving), John 4:1-42, John 8:3-11, John 19:25-27, John 20:11-18 (significant in that Jesus' first appearance after the resurrection was to a woman who likely was a societal outcast due to having been demon-possessed).

 

I'm guessing you missed all I said about my husband serving me and meeting my needs as much as I do his?

 

Oh yeah, and as far as "roasting" me? That was not intended as a martyr statement. I don't count a little razzing as martyrdom.

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It's not YOU roknroler.....it's the whole 'prairie muffin' concept that just pisses us off. It's a horrifying backwards view of womanhood that should rightly piss the fuck off out of anyone who believes they are a human being and should be treated as one.

 

 

One more little thing. I am curious as to why this concept angers you so much. The prairie muffin chooses to be a prairie muffin, and is not trying to make you be a prairie muffin. The prairie muffin does not feel like she is living a "horrifying backwards view of womanhood", so where is the tolerance for her chosen lifestyle?

 

Just curious... :scratch:

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And for a few examples of Jesus treating women with respect, I'll just list the references since you have access to a Bible.

 

Please tell me that doesn't surprise you. Wouldn't it be a little off for me (and others here) to reject belief in something we had not bothered to READ?

Luke 7:37-50, Luke 10:38-42 (Jesus praised Mary for NOT serving), John 4:1-42, John 8:3-11, John 19:25-27, John 20:11-18 (significant in that Jesus' first appearance after the resurrection was to a woman who likely was a societal outcast due to having been demon-possessed).

 

I don't see how these verses and stories are any more 'pro-feminism' than any other verses and stories in the OT. So how are these sexually "equalizing"? Just because women appear in them?

 

I'm guessing you missed all I said about my husband serving me and meeting my needs as much as I do his?.

That is wonderful. It's not supported by the Bible, really. So you and your spouse have found your own balance...not based on faith, and definitely not based on Paul-ianity.

 

Oh yeah, and as far as "roasting" me? That was not intended as a martyr statement. I don't count a little razzing as martyrdom.

And yet you pretty much "asked" if that was what we were doing.

 

One more little thing. I am curious as to why this concept angers you so much. The prairie muffin chooses to be a prairie muffin, and is not trying to make you be a prairie muffin. The prairie muffin does not feel like she is living a "horrifying backwards view of womanhood", so where is the tolerance for her chosen lifestyle?

 

Just curious... :scratch:

 

Where am I obligated to tolerate anyone's lifestyle? If she wants to live that way, she's going to do it. I don't have to like it, and obviously....I don't. That doesn't mean I'm going to firebomb her house, but it DOES mean I'm not going to endorse that lifestyle to other people.

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Please tell me that doesn't surprise you. Wouldn't it be a little off for me (and others here) to reject belief in something we had not bothered to READ?

 

Why SHOULD I be surprised that any of you had Bibles? They're everywhere. I think they are even in a vast majority of the homes of people who call themselves Christians and have NEVER read them.

 

 

I don't see how these verses and stories are any more 'pro-feminism' than any other verses and stories in the OT. So how are these sexually "equalizing"? Just because women appear in them?

 

I didn't list those references as supporting feminism. Just the respect that Jesus afforded women in His day and in a culture that basically treated women as property.

 

 

That is wonderful. It's not supported by the Bible, really. So you and your spouse have found your own balance...not based on faith, and definitely not based on Paul-ianity.

 

On the contrary, I do believe that our balance is supported by the Bible. And I believe it is very Pauline in doctrine. References: Ephesians 5:22-33, 1 Peter 3:7.

 

 

And yet you pretty much "asked" if that was what we were doing.

 

I didn't ask if you were roasting me, I said I didn't understand why you were. I'm sorry if my choice of words was misunderstood. Had nothing to do with martyrdom by fire, but everything to do with this definition of roast: to criticize or reprimand severely. No big deal. :shrug:

 

 

Where am I obligated to tolerate anyone's lifestyle? If she wants to live that way, she's going to do it. I don't have to like it, and obviously....I don't. That doesn't mean I'm going to firebomb her house, but it DOES mean I'm not going to endorse that lifestyle to other people.

 

As far as the tolerance issue, please forgive me if I misunderstood. Christians are often criticized for a "lack of tolerance to other lifestyles" so I thought perhaps tolerance was an issue in this forum. I do wonder though why we are considered intolerant if we simply don't endorse certain lifestyles like you don't endorse prairie muffins.

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As far as the tolerance issue, please forgive me if I misunderstood. Christians are often criticized for a "lack of tolerance to other lifestyles" so I thought perhaps tolerance was an issue in this forum. I do wonder though why we are considered intolerant if we simply don't endorse certain lifestyles like you don't endorse prairie muffins.

 

 

Because christians frequently label things a "lifestyle" that really aren't. Homosexuality is not a "lifestyle" for example. It's just a life. By labelling it a "lifestyle" it makes it sound as though being homosexual is simply a choice.

 

And your comparison of my choice to not endorse prairie muffinism and what christians call not endorsing a lifestyle REALLY is not the same.

 

I don't stand outside general stores accosting women in handmade clothes to abandon their prairie ways. Christians have no problem standing outside Family Planning clinics assuming every pregnant woman walking in the door is looking for an abortion, and screaming at them. I also don't attend gatherings where the purpose of the group is to try and intervene in the lives of PMs. I don't go to PM forums looking to change them either.

 

By not endorsing PM....what I mean is if a friend wants to do something new and different with their life....I'm not going to suggest PM to them.

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I don't stand outside general stores accosting women in handmade clothes to abandon their prairie ways. Christians have no problem standing outside Family Planning clinics assuming every pregnant woman walking in the door is looking for an abortion, and screaming at them. I also don't attend gatherings where the purpose of the group is to try and intervene in the lives of PMs. I don't go to PM forums looking to change them either.

 

More stereotyping. I'm a Christian, and I have never done, nor would I do the things you mention here. And I already said I'm not here looking to change anyone. The rules of this forum state that aggressive evangelism by Christians is actually tolerated here, and I'm in no way doing that... I realize your choices are made.

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More stereotyping. I'm a Christian, and I have never done, nor would I do the things you mention here.

 

I never said that you did that. Where do I say you do? And since you don't do that, does that mean other christians don't? Does your non-jerkiness make the jerkiness of other christians okay? Or does your tolerence of others somehow 'make up' for the IN-tolerance by other christians?

 

And I already said I'm not here looking to change anyone. The rules of this forum state that aggressive evangelism by Christians is actually tolerated here, and I'm in no way doing that... I realize your choices are made.

 

And that is good. But again...while it IS true that you don't do that (so far), and aren't here for that....does that actually mean that other christians DON'T come here for that very thing? Because they do.

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I never said that you did that. Where do I say you do? And since you don't do that, does that mean other christians don't? Does your non-jerkiness make the jerkiness of other christians okay? Or does your tolerence of others somehow 'make up' for the IN-tolerance by other christians?

 

My apologies. You said "Christians have no problem etc." I thought perhaps it was a blanket statement since you didn't say "Some Christians". And I'm with you on the jerkiness of so many who proclaim to follow Christ. Too many "Christians" want to shove Jesus down your throats, but I don't recall that being the way Jesus did things.

 

And sometimes I'm afraid I can be a jerk --I'm only human-- but I really try not to be. :phew:

 

 

And that is good. But again...while it IS true that you don't do that (so far), and aren't here for that....does that actually mean that other christians DON'T come here for that very thing? Because they do.

 

Well, I have only been here for two days, and I haven't read all the boards yet. But I do imagine that many do. And sometimes, given the hypocrisy, legalism, and lack of grace I have seen out there, I shudder to think about the things they all might have said to you.

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My apologies. You said "Christians have no problem etc." I thought perhaps it was a blanket statement since you didn't say "Some Christians". And I'm with you on the jerkiness of so many who proclaim to follow Christ. Too many "Christians" want to shove Jesus down your throats, but I don't recall that being the way Jesus did things.

 

I'm sure you've heard the Ghandi quote....the one where he points out how little like christ christ-worshippers are.

 

Try no to take it too personally, but many of us frequently talk about christianity in a blanket sort of way. It doesn't mean we aren't each aware that all christians are not the same....it is just done for the expediency of communication.

 

Well, I have only been here for two days, and I haven't read all the boards yet. But I do imagine that many do. And sometimes, given the hypocrisy, legalism, and lack of grace I have seen out there, I shudder to think about the things they all might have said to you.

 

Oof.

 

Stick around, you'll see.

 

On a side note, I checked the page you had listed on your profile. I see lotsa kitties. :grin:

 

Couple sites I LOVE.....just in case you hadn't heard about them:

http://www.mycathatesyou.com/

http://www.stuffonmycat.com/

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I'm sure you've heard the Ghandi quote....the one where he points out how little like christ christ-worshippers are.

 

I have heard that quote, and have found it to be most disheartening. I do have a firm set of beliefs, but I have no reason or cause to shove them down anyone's throats. I do pray for people --truly I do-- but it's not a matter of believing that anything I ask for will magically appear. In my set of beliefs, the Holy Spirit is the only one Who can change a person. That's not my job. I care about people, but I believe we make our own choices. I like to dialogue with those in here, but that's as far as I'll go.

 

Try no to take it too personally, but many of us frequently talk about christianity in a blanket sort of way. It doesn't mean we aren't each aware that all christians are not the same....it is just done for the expediency of communication.

 

No worries. I'm good.

 

On a side note, I checked the page you had listed on your profile. I see lotsa kitties. :grin:

 

Couple sites I LOVE.....just in case you hadn't heard about them:

http://www.mycathatesyou.com/

http://www.stuffonmycat.com/

 

Hey! A fellow cat lover! Common ground... Checked out the sites. Very funny pics. My hubby and I used to get worried that if anyone ever saw our funny pictures of our cats wearing assorted strange household items, we might get in trouble with PETA or something. :grin: Now I see a website dedicated to it? Cool!

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For the person who asked why I was here... <snip>...that's why.

 

Okay. In the context of this board, that makes sense, thanks. My question was a bit broader, however: why have you come to ex-Christian Forums in general, not just this board?

 

I've read a few boards in this forum and it seems like trouble was here way before I showed up.

 

Snide comments like this will get you roasted, so to speak.

 

This was a new concept to me, so I started reading your boards. Simple as that.

 

Okay. Fair 'nuff. Welcome to ex-C, then. :thanks:

 

What I can't understand is why I've been roasted already, and I just got here.

 

There are a whole lot of reasons why newbie Xians are often flamed, roasted, or criticized when they arrive, mainly having to do with the assumptions they seem to bring in, and how damn tired many of us are dealing with the same assumptions and attitudes over and over and over and over again. Many of us (myself included) are highly suspicious of Xian motivations, and with good reason. We're also tired of hearing the same PRATT's, arguments as to why we should convert or why we were never TrueChristians™ in the first place, and so on and so forth.

 

Plus, hey, this is the Lion's Den - stuff here gets heated.

 

I'm not sure why my belief should bother all of you so.

 

Other than that your deity slaughtered children, authorized multiple genocides, sanctioned the murders of gay people and nonbelievers, and regularly consigns people to an infinite, eternal hell for finite transgressions, I don't have any problem with it.

 

I'm not pushing it on you; I was just answering roknrolr to the best of my ability, which probably wasn't sufficient since I'm not actually a prairie muffin.

 

You as an individual may not be pushing your faith on anybody, but your religion certainly does. Evangelism, proselytizing, and witnessing are part and parcel of Xianity. It would bother me less if Xians in general could in fact learn to just live and let live, leaving their faith a private thing instead of something that interferes with things like, say, reproductive rights and science education.

 

I'm not objecting to your responding to roknrolr, btw. You're a Xian and she asked for Xian answers. Totally appropriate response.

 

I don't agree that my "religion" (and I don't call it religion) is suppressive to females.

 

I'm not surprised. :shrug: I didn't see it when I was in the fold, either.

 

Like I said, I'm not here to convert anyone, and if you'd like me to leave that's ok. I'm sure many if not most of you have had it with legalistic Pharisees; so have I. That's not what I'm about.

 

It isn't necessary for you to leave, at least not on my behalf. I don't need or want you to leave at this point. Whether or not you'll turn out to be Pharisiacal - well, okay, you say you won't, but we've seen so many Xians come here who said they wouldn't be and ended up lying, so for me, anyway, the jury's still out. Yer on probation. ;)

 

One more question: when you pray for us, what are you praying for? What are you asking god for?

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...I've been flipping a coin for you. :mellow:

 

:lmao::lmao:

 

Thanks for the big laugh!

 

 

What I can't understand is why I've been roasted already, and I just got here. Did I do something to any of you, or is it just that I believe in God? I'm not sure why my belief should bother all of you so. I'm not pushing it on you; I was just answering roknrolr to the best of my ability, which probably wasn't sufficient since I'm not actually a prairie muffin.

 

 

 

All Christians get roasted here. It's the custom, done in order to see if the Christian has any real meat. Sadly few that stop by here do.

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I don't know about this "Pug" person, but I'm not a "name it and claim it" person. I don't pray like God is a genie in a bottle to do my wishes.

 

I pray as he told the disciples to pray, that His will is done.

 

Why? I mean why does god need your prayer to do his own will? The fact that we have fallen away or weren't real Christians in the first place must be God's will, for nothing can defy God's will if God is the Omni-Max that Christians usually claim he is.

 

Perhaps we are the piss pots God made to make himself look cool. (Romans 9:21)

 

 

And well, God did say you could pray to him like a genie in a bottle. You only deny it because it doesn't work, indicating God isn't there. We can't have that now can wii.

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Okay. In the context of this board, that makes sense, thanks. My question was a bit broader, however: why have you come to ex-Christian Forums in general, not just this board?

 

As I already mentioned in another post, I am communicating with someone online who left Christianity, so I researched and found this site. I just found it to be interesting, so I jumped in.

 

 

Snide comments like this will get you roasted, so to speak.

 

My apologies if that seemed snide; I didn't intend for it to. Just a mild attempt at humor.

 

 

 

There are a whole lot of reasons why newbie Xians are often flamed, roasted, or criticized when they arrive, mainly having to do with the assumptions they seem to bring in, and how damn tired many of us are dealing with the same assumptions and attitudes over and over and over and over again. Many of us (myself included) are highly suspicious of Xian motivations, and with good reason. We're also tired of hearing the same PRATT's, arguments as to why we should convert or why we were never TrueChristians in the first place, and so on and so forth.

 

Plus, hey, this is the Lion's Den - stuff here gets heated.

 

Ok, fair enough.

 

 

One more question: when you pray for us, what are you praying for? What are you asking god for?

 

In truth, I am really praying moreso for myself that I will be straightforward with you, not compromising my own beliefs, yet at the same time, not be pushy with you. I really believe that you make your own decisions, and since I have no power to sway anyone, why would I try?

 

In reality, I am at a loss as far as exactly what to pray for you. But I'm sure you're familiar with the scripture about praying with groans that cannot be uttered. "Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." Romans 8:26

 

I sure don't have all this figured out, but I do care about people. And I'm not really sure how long I'll stick around. I'm kind of winging it at this point. I feel sort of like many of you have seen nothing from Christians but hypocrisy, legalism, a lack of grace, and condemnation. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I have seen all this too, and it sickens me as well. But I don't think I should judge God by the people who claim to be Christians that have hurt me.

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Why? I mean why does god need your prayer to do his own will?...

And well, God did say you could pray to him like a genie in a bottle. You only deny it because it doesn't work, indicating God isn't there. We can't have that now can wii.

 

Praying for His will to be done has nothing to do with Him needing my help, but me needing His grace for acceptance of His will. And it's just the form of communication where I get to know Him.

 

Like anyone else, I have a lot of deep stuff happening in my life. For instance, I have an incurable disease that causes me a lot of pain. But I don't see the point in blaming God for that. He gives me the hope that gets me through. I realize this is the kind of statement I will be roasted for, but it is the truth.

 

Faith is not really debatable; you either have it or you don't. I won't criticize you for not having it, and I hope you won't criticize me because I do.

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not compromising my own beliefs

Perhaps to fully understand ones own beliefs they need to compromise their own. I did.

 

But I don't think I should judge God...

You should judge god. We all clearly do. In a way, thats like a slave not being able to question his/her master.

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You should judge god. We all clearly do. In a way, thats like a slave not being able to question his/her master.

 

I'm not saying I don't ask Him questions. I do.

 

By the way, interesting photo. What's the story behind it?

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I'm not saying I don't ask Him questions. I do.

There is a difference between asking questions and judging. Asking is good...asking nothing a question can be a sign of insanity.

 

The pic is just something I found, I like it.

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...asking nothing a question can be a sign of insanity.

 

But the implications of you being right means only that I have wasted time.

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But the implications of you being right means only that I have wasted time.

and that your insane...

 

If you wish to say that wasting your life is ok then be my guest, im not wasting mine. Id rather do more good than pretend im important because my made up sky friend likes me because I invented him.

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But the implications of you being right means only that I have wasted time.

and that your insane...

 

If you wish to say that wasting your life is ok then be my guest, im not wasting mine. Id rather do more good than pretend im important because my made up sky friend likes me because I invented him.

 

Well, I'm not insane, and I'm not wasting my life, or pretending that I'm important -- I'm not. God is real, and not my made-up sky friend. But I'm not here to convince you of that. Like I said before to chefranden, 'faith is not really debatable; you either have it or you don't. I won't criticize you for not having it, and I hope you won't criticize me because I do.'

 

But if you still want to criticize and call me insane, that's ok too.

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