Slamming the Christians

[Eponymic]

I have to preface this commentary by saying that I am totally understand that everyone has a right to vent. Everyone here has been hurt by religion in one way or another.

 

Here's what concerns me though. It's perfectly alright to vent, and get those negative things off your chest that you're thinking, as long as it's in a contained venue where you aren't causing anyone any harm.

 

Unfortunately many people here are very raw and out right cruel to many Christians on this site.

Yes, they set themselves up for it.

Yes, they usually say something that touches a sore spot or is considered disrespectful to those who've gone the Bible B.S.

YES, its usually well earned.

 

But does that make it right though?

 

All someone is doing when they lash out, in a negative, harmful tone towards someone is perpetuating the cycle of pain. You reinforce the negative. Causing harm towards those who are either seeking answer but don't know how to questions, are seeking the answer in the subconscious and really aren't even aware of it yet, and hurting people who are seeking answers on a very sensitive subject.

 

Using negative tactics (mocking, dripping sarcasm, callousness, uncaringness, etc.) you perpetuate the myth that ex-Christians are a bunch of cold, mean spirited, bloodthirsty assholes who will sooner look out for themselves than someone else.

 

Secondly, you make it easy for Christians to stay in the fold. Thusly, you make your life harder by keeping more Christians right where they are. Why would they want to listen to or join a bunch of bitter, angry, mean spirited jerks (not that ex-Christians are, but that's the message you send out when doing this).

 

Finally, being negative and hurtful in your remarks is a security blanket. It keeps you being exactly what you didn't want to be when you were a Christian- close-minded. Not to the same degree, but think about it. If you're being negative, you're not listening to the core of what someone is saying. And by being negative you not only limit & hurt your own self esteem, you

 

The fact is behind every attack someone launches, behind every remark that could be called stupid, callous, or disrespectful, is a person who is searching for the truth. And even more than you, they are afraid (as fear is the primary motivating factor of Christianity), and they are insecure. The most brazen of fundamentalists are usually the ones with the most fear in their lives. They're so scared that they're driven to extreme lengths to prove otherwise.

 

If someone is bringing forth the same questions or giving the same answers that you've heard a thousand times before, they obviously haven't learned the truth yet. Should they be scorned for that? Would you have appreciated, when you didn't know or were still a Christian someone mocking, belittling, or coldly slamming you for being a blind idiot?

 

Please consider the next time you're thinking of slamming on someone that there is a feeling person on the other side of that text who is looking for something; be it answers, support, or guidance. Everyone is here for a reason, and its up to you to make that experience a positive one.

 

Peace

[white_raven23]

A lot of people have been badly hurt by their religion. But most of the time they don't even realize it until they've left the fold.

 

That happened to me. I was a lifelong christian. I really didn't start questioning until late high school, and I still didn't really get hard and serious about it until college.

 

A commom misconception that many christians here seem to have is that one minute, you're a believer...then BAM you decide to be a full blown athiest. That kind of sudden decision would make anyone's head spin.....that's why some christians here are tentative or hesitant here about taking that step, they mistakenly assume they have to go all the way.

 

When I finally let go of Christianity, a weight I never knew was there was lifted from me. I had no idea there was pressure until it was gone. The freedom made me cry. For joy, that I was free, and for grief, that I'd never known I was in pain for most of my life until it was gone.

 

My next reaction was anger. I'd tasted freedom after never realizing I was enslaved. The rage was pretty intense. I felt betrayed. Lied to. Mentally abused.

 

That doesn't go away overnight. Every now and then I still feel a flare-up of anger, or a panic attack when I get a church invite.

 

I've found it best to try and count to ten and re-read posts from our rabid christians here, just so I don't leap out and castrate them with text. I have to remind myself they are still ignorant of the slavery they've been living. And are therefore mis-interpreting my post-traumatic rage (they just see me persecuting them).

 

It's very hard to be patient with the Macgyver's, Yoyos, and Troys. Impossible sometimes. I've failed at it a time or two. And by doing so I help them reinforce a harmful belief system. And I'm not encouraging their slow march to freedom by doing that.

 

It's hard to remember, and no doubt I will fail again, but it's good to be reminded that flies don't like vinegar.

[Mr. Neil]

You know what? Being nice doesn't work. Look at society. Scientists were very enthusiastic about their discoveries in both the history of biology and the universe. They were very wishy-washy and didn't bother addressing the problems between their findings and religious fundamentalism. They just assumed that friendly, enlightened discoveries published in magazines would turn the masses away from mythical beliefs and in favor of scientific discoveries.

 

But that's not what happened. Now we're feverishly battling idiots who want to make room for their fundamentalist beliefs in the science classroom. And it's all because nobody had the balls to stand up and say to Christians the same thing we've been saying to people who believe in bigfoot, ghosts, and UFO abductions, which is that this shit ain't so and that we should be beyond this already.

 

A few years ago, I was one of these religious-friendly science enthusiasts who tried to reason with Christians that belief in God doesn't have to contradict evolution. In fact, I still attempt that from time to time. Call me a glutton for punishment. But over and over again, I would get reemed by Christians the second I would dare to suggest that some things in the Bible might, just might be wrong. If I told them that the Garden of Eden wasn't literal, I was "calling Jesus a liar". It didn't matter that I actually had a real argument. I was chewed up, spit out, and stomped on.

 

Since then, I've developed the attitude (I'll admit, it's an attitude) that the Christians with whom I debate are simply not going to listen anyway, so I might as well sink my teeth in and tear 'em apart. I don't have the empathy anymore, because they've shown me repeatedly that they're searching for the truth. The ones who are really searching for the truth are the ones who will follow through and look into my arguments; not the ones who try to bend and twist around them. I'm tired of that.

 

And it's not just with Christians. Sure, it happens most often in apologetic arguments, since that's mainly what I do, but I've gotten pretty sick of people who argue in weasley ways. I'm talking about people who commit themselves to believing that the war in Iraq was justified or think that the World Trade Center was planned by our own government or that the moon landing was a hoax. I don't reserve sympathy for these people. They're idiots. They have the information needed to see that they're wrong, and they go ahead with their nonsense anyway.

 

When I argue with someone like this, I don't expect them to listen. I don't aim my crosshairs at the person against whom I'm arguing anymore. Instead, my targets are the spectators. The people reading the debate or listening to the things I have to say, because as condescending as I may be sometimes, there is a real argument there, and from what I've seen, going on the offense and being a little abbrasive works. I've actually had people tell me that I've changed their minds by watching me engage someone who clearly has no intention of listening to what I have to say. One of those enlightened spectators happens to be a mod here right now.

 

As mean and elitist and cruel as I may be, I make sure to be positive and enlightening to the reader while the Christian is left swinging in the dark, and the messages I like to promote the most are that it's okay to ask a question, and that it's okay to not know the answer, as long as you have the intellectual honesty to admit this.

 

Fundamentalist Christians, as I've demonstrated over and over, don't have this honesty. So fuck 'em.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Eponymic...

 

I try not to rake over the folks who are thiest through to many coals...

 

The big *however* for me comes from those who come here demanding that I listen to them...

 

Been there, Heard It, Preached It, Wrote It, Done That, walked away from it.

 

I KNOW the stories, the fantasy, the mind games, the bullshit behind trying to gain converts..

 

As the song says "We won't be fooled again"...

 

If someone is here seriously looking, asking, partaking in community, and not burning my balls with a blow torch filled with heckfire, I have zero problem..

 

Otherwise I reply as Mr. Neil has so eloquently stated in his post, this thread, to those who start tossing verbal hand grenades into my net_house...

 

n

[Alice]

I guess from the margins ... this is what I would say.

 

One of the most helpful things I have found about this site is that there are different ways of approaching and responding to christians shown here.

 

The first few times I visited (some months ago) I ran away upset becuase what stood out ot me at the time was some pretty aggressive and to my mind disrespectful dismissive stuff. I got really worried that I might become like this if I deconverted and all my misgivings about non christians were temporarily reconfirmed.

 

But I did venture back. Some journey's have just got to be carried out. I think the first thing I posted was a question about 'attitudes', and I got back really helpful replies and started to see things differently.

 

I guess it's useful to keep a check on attitudes from time to time - it's good to vent anger and pain - but it's not good to let anger and pain become a static state of mind.

 

And I guess its not good to take our own pain out on the next christian who pops up either - although it's understandable.

 

I think niceness works with fundamentalists better than anger or ridicule - although maybe some of you feel the nice approach hasn't worked - there's not a lot of evidence to suggest that anger and ridicule works better - I think over all it makes the situation worse.

[Mythra]

Oh no - first I was Christ's representative here on earth, and now I have to put on a nice face to help represent the atheists? Are you kidding?

 

What's next, "try to abstain from using profanity"?

 

I'm new here, and I can only speak for myself, but from what I've read, no one slams or mocks TAP. That's because she is non-condescending and non-judgmental.

 

But when someone tells me that they will look at me in hell and laugh at me from heaven, the gloves are off. sorry.

[Mr. Neil]

I'm new here, and I can only speak for myself, but from what I've read, no one slams or mocks TAP.  That's because she is non-condescending and non-judgmental.

Eeeeeeexactly.

[Cerise]

Please consider the next time you're thinking of slamming on someone that there is a feeling person on the other side of that text who is looking for something; be it answers, support, or guidance. Everyone is here for a reason, and its up to you to make that experience a positive one.

 

Peace

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

With all due respect, I disagree. It is not "up to me" to do anything except be who I am. And I don't tell lies, nor do I play pretend with people.

 

Spades are spades, morons are morons, and as Zoe so wonderfully said:

 

This is not toleranceforidiocy.net

[Mythra]

Hans - I see you're here - just wanted to say sorry for what you had to go through with your family being in an accident and all. (different thread) - makes all my shit seem trivial.

[Ouroboros]

Nivek, I totally love that Car Pool picture! Very funny!

Maybe car pooling is a socialistic idea? Just kidding.

 

 

Eponymic, You're right and you're wrong.

 

You are right that it scares christians away when we rant and attack them as hard as we do. And I wish that could be different too. It's a very fine line between answering politely but strong, and offending someone. Some of their questions contains rude or generalizing statements, which can be very upsetting. Especially when the statements are wrong. Like this one: "All ex-christians are bitter and have a bad experience with wrong christians, and that's the reason." But on the other hand we have some christians that ask a valid question, and still get really angry responses, and that is very unfortunate, and shouldn't have to happen.

 

But I think you're wrong in a way too, because I need a place where I can say what I think and what I feel. In Church there was no way you could do that, you had to keep everything inside, just to fit it. It would not be good if we have to have a policy that restricts our speech and what and how we say it. Unless there's different policies under different Areas, and the moderators make sure that the policies are followed. i.e. under Rants and Discussions, go ahead, bit the head of whoever ask something, but under Theological Questions or the Arena there you wouldn't be even allowed to use curse words.

 

Actually, that's how the policy is right now, the Arena is strict, but no one is posting questions there! So if the christians want calm and polite discussion, they should go to the arena instead.

[Asimov]

I'm not gonna call Eponymic a pussy for telling us we should be nice to everyone, but I do disagree.

 

(I know nobody called him a pussy...)

 

Why should we be nice to everyone? We should be respectful and professional and mature where respect, professionalism, and maturity warrant it....

 

This is a message board, and Christians who come on here seeking support, then they will ask for it. If they enter here spouting off Hell-speak and Bible thumping everywhere, then they will get what they came here for.

 

Rampant mind-fucking and continuous laughter and insults.

 

It's what they want, because their bible tells em that's what they'll get.

[white_raven23]

I totally understand the need to vent frustration. I also understand the christians who come here ARE usually given a chance to prove themselves open to real discussion before being torn to shreds for their close-minded bigotry.

 

I'm completely cool with that.

 

But folks need to remember that religion acts like certain types of plants. You know, some plants grow best in perfect soil with lots of sunshine. You talk to them and they just bloom all over.

 

But there are other plants that just shrivel up and die in that environment. They do best under hardship. No water? Someone pruning them back really hard? Dry soil? They do GREAT.

 

Religion is more like the plants that thrive under hardship. Persecution? People put to death for their beliefs? BRING IT ON! They grow out all over.

 

In the modern era, in our nice tolerant civilization (we're not talking third world here), religion has SUFFERED. Really. It has. I'm not sure about stats, but I'm willing to wager church attendance has been at an all time low. And look! Homosexual people are being given rights that only heterosexual couples have had!

 

Proof of their failing IS in the fundie lip-service we get. The more tolerant people become, the louder those fundies have been getting. We've been killing them with tolerance. So they are trying to bring back their beloved persecution by being as dickish as possible publically.

 

We really CAN kill them with kindness. The battles between science and religion has been a losing battle for religion. That's why they are fighting so hard.

 

Just food for thought.

[dogmatically_challenged]

It's what they want, because their bible tells em that's what they'll get.

 

This says it all.

 

 

Not always, but you'll find that most of the time I prefer to be nice and at worst I'll be blunt, but try to be respectful. Not because believers deserve it necessarily, but because it's not really my style. To each thier own. I will not apologize for or chastize my heathen brethren when it is the Christian that is being obnoxious to begin with. I fully support ExChristians.

[Totallyatpeace]

But when someone tells me that they will look at me in hell and laugh at me from heaven, the gloves are off.  sorry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I had a real problem with that, too and we had a couple of PM exchanges over that comment.

 

It wasn't pretty.

[LloydDobler]

I'm with cerise, I call it like I see it.

 

And I only attack the christian who pops on the board skims stuff for about an hour, then chimes in with 'I've been reading the boards for a while, and I have some comments'...

 

These comments usually consist of:

 

Pascal's wager.

God in the gaps.

Assumption that we are all atheists.

Assumption that we left christianity because of people treating us a certain way.

Accusations that we don't know the bible enough

Accusations that we weren't true christians

Declarations that we're not open minded

 

Then when all this crap is debunked angrily for the 1000th time, (all comments that would have been unneccessary if the person had ACTUALLY read the site)...they marginalize us for being angry.

 

Fuck 'em. Liars and lazy thinkers all of 'em.

 

The true testimony of who we are and how we behave is how we treat each other and new x-c's. And if any of the christians who join would read that stuff first, instead of just trying to take us to task in the same old ignorant fashion, maybe we'd do it less.

[BlueGiant]

Now, now, now, I do not get sarcastic and barbed in my posts here because someone is a Christian. There are some here or who have been here who are fairly reasonable. No, my ire is with people who have no ettiquite. Essentially llamas crashing our servers. I'm sorry, but there really isn't any reason to hold back, Xian or otberwise, when someone is being stupid (willfully ignorant).

[Mr. Neil]

I think the attitude that a personal attack should never be implemented is unfounded. Sure, it shouldn't be the backbone of an argument, but there are times when I think it's totally justified. For example, if you go back and forth a number of times on the same point, and the Christian, without a sound rebuttal, cannot refute what I'm saying but behaves as though he's done so anyway. I think I'm perfectly justified to blow the whistle.

 

For example, of the two extremely brief times I engaged Jason Gastrich, both times, he whined about ad hominems, but when he's clearly being illogical, what choice do I have? I think I'm entitled to draw the reader's attention to Jason's defense and ask them if it's more likely that two completely contradictory verses can be harmonized meaningfully or if Jason, driven by dogmatic belief, is simply being stubborn, because he doesn't want to give up his faith. If the latter is more likely, based on the established argument, I say go for it. Tear 'em a new asshole.

 

I think that when it's obvious, you should be able to say, "You're wrong, and you're afraid to admit that you're wrong", as long as the opponent as demonstrated such unreasonable obstinance.

[DeathWorship]

in my experience debating with christians, i've always been civil with them, but not because i feel i need to tiptoe through eggshells, but because that is my nature. although, if they get hostile with me, i'm more than glad to strike back coldly.

 

i remember one particular instance right before i totally deconverted (i still claimed i was a christian, but my faith had weakened considerably).. i was debating the omnipotence/omniscience (sp?) of God and how they can't coexist, and somehow this girl totally spun the debate to interfaith dating, she asked me what my gf believed and i told her she was agnostic, she then said "Well how do you think you are going to feel when you are in heaven with Christ and she is burning in hell!!".. all civility and social grace went right out the fucking window at that point.

 

when i debate with christians, i still try and retain my composure.. but as lloyd stated, all xian arguments are the EXACT SAME EVERY TIME.. i cant even count how many times i've been told that "I wasn't a true xian" and "You just got turned away by bad xians"

[♦ nivek ♦]

I simply do not have the time to debate...

 

Fuckit.. They belive what they think, I live in my time and space and save for things I want to change I am well fixed for life..

 

Most daze, err, days, like today I am glued to this one eyed bastard and compelled to manage business things from it, rather than out in the wonderful sunshine and greasy/messy/torn to hell/turn a wrench/burn something with torch work enviroment..

 

Some would say it is *price of success*.. Whooo-peee-fucking-blooey... Oh well, bills get paid, even if I don't get to see my budddies and get to go get wet in River often..

 

Folks like to be treated well. Have ZERO problem being respectful in Dave's House to those who visit.

 

Walk into this House, take a shit on carpet, get shovelled with your waste and your pants around ankles right out the door..

 

Read the sign as you come in.. The few Rules that Dave has are simple, even this less than sharp knife in camp drawer sort can understand them...

 

House is for a break from the folks who preach you into heaven..

 

Got no patience for those who come here to use this place as Loren stated 'as thier personal witnessing pool".

 

Aint'a gonna happen on my watch...

 

n

 

 

>stoopid siggy pic one found on net.. I drive BIG personal assault vehicles.. <

[Ouroboros]

But folks need to remember that religion acts like certain types of plants. You know, some plants grow best in perfect soil with lots of sunshine. You talk to them and they just bloom all over.

 

Good illustration. Belief and thought has to be nurtured like plants, you remove the weed and culture the flowers. And I see that we're not always perfectly nice to each other either, but we flame out in comments sometimes, and it's ok, and we should be able to take it, and should be able to give it. Within reasonable amounts for course.

[Vulgaris Prime]

I have to preface this commentary by saying that I am totally understand that everyone has a right to vent. Everyone here has been hurt by religion in one way or another.

 

Whoa there, let's not be making generalizations.

 

Here's what concerns me though. It's perfectly alright to vent, and get those negative things off your chest that you're thinking, as long as it's in a contained venue where you aren't causing anyone any harm.

 

Unfortunately many people here are very raw and out right cruel to many Christians on this site.

Yes, they set themselves up for it.

Yes, they usually say something that touches a sore spot or is considered disrespectful to those who've gone the Bible B.S.

YES, its usually well earned.

 

But does that make it right though?

 

Depends. Does it make it right for these Babbleheads to say that I'm a moralless slug who doesn't know what love is because I'm not a GOOD GAWD-FEARING JEEEZUS-WORSHIPER? If you can say that it's not right for them to impugn my character for not being Xtian, then I will admit it's not right for me to call them sanctimonious little bags of steaming stupid.

 

All someone is doing when they lash out, in a negative, harmful tone towards someone is perpetuating the cycle of pain. You reinforce the negative. Causing harm towards those who are either seeking answer but don't know how to questions, are seeking the answer in the subconscious and really aren't even aware of it yet, and hurting people who are seeking answers on a very sensitive subject.

 

You think these people are seeking answers? You ain't been around long enough, I see.

 

Using negative tactics (mocking, dripping sarcasm, callousness, uncaringness, etc.) you perpetuate the myth that ex-Christians are a bunch of cold, mean spirited, bloodthirsty assholes who will sooner look out for themselves than someone else.

 

No, the only ones who believe that are the ones who will commit the Fallacy of Composition. I'd be doing the same thing if I said that every Xtian here was an asshole. I know that's not true - take folks like TAP or SOIL. Nice folk. Certainly not assholes.

 

Secondly, you make it easy for Christians to stay in the fold. Thusly, you make your life harder by keeping more Christians right where they are. Why would they want to listen to or join a bunch of bitter, angry, mean spirited jerks (not that ex-Christians are, but that's the message you send out when doing this).

 

They will make up their own minds as to whether or not they want to leave the church, and we have shit all to do with it. If they want to leave, they'll come to that conclusion with or without us.

 

Finally, being negative and hurtful in your remarks is a security blanket. It keeps you being exactly what you didn't want to be when you were a Christian- close-minded.

 

That's hitting too close to the belt. How dare you presume to know what I think? You know nothing, just like everyone else.

 

Not to the same degree, but think about it. If you're being negative, you're not listening to the core of what someone is saying. And by being negative you not only limit & hurt your own self esteem, you

 

...I think you lost your paragraph.

 

The fact is behind every attack someone launches, behind every remark that could be called stupid, callous, or disrespectful, is a person who is searching for the truth.

 

That's the same bullshit line they use when they're hurt. You're sounding more and more like a hit-and-run debater.

 

And even more than you, they are afraid (as fear is the primary motivating factor of Christianity), and they are insecure. The most brazen of fundamentalists are usually the ones with the most fear in their lives. They're so scared that they're driven to extreme lengths to prove otherwise.

 

If someone is bringing forth the same questions or giving the same answers that you've heard a thousand times before, they obviously haven't learned the truth yet. Should they be scorned for that?

 

There's this thing called "lurking". They can do that for a while and see what happens when you say things that are tired and hoary.

 

Would you have appreciated, when you didn't know or were still a Christian someone mocking, belittling, or coldly slamming you for being a blind idiot?

 

Please consider the next time you're thinking of slamming on someone that there is a feeling person on the other side of that text who is looking for something; be it answers, support, or guidance. Everyone is here for a reason, and its up to you to make that experience a positive one.

 

Sorry, but as long as I take shit from people, I'm going to give a small measure of it right back out.

 

I can be civil, but why should I bother when all I seem to get is assholes on both sides saying that I'm wrong about everything? That kind of destroys your want of civility.

[Eponymic]

And I see that we're not always perfectly nice to each other either, but we flame out in comments sometimes, and it's ok, and we should be able to take it, and should be able to give it. Within reasonable amounts for course.

 

I agree, that there are times where we just can't control it, or it is occasionally justified. I will say that.

 

For clarification- its not a matter of being a nice, mousy little pushover. It's a matter of using more tact & candor in your arguments. You can still be very strong & decisive in your remarks without being viscious.

 

Its about distinguishing yourself from the common man who often doesn't have the good training to be anything more than crass idiot; while still not feeling the need to belittle them for something they aren't necessarily ready, or possibly incapable of fixing.

 

And you can still be forceful & dignified when dealing with someone who comes into your house and starts slinging shit on the ceiling. I'm not saying you have to stay like this, but you can at least have the decency to fire a warning shot across their bow to see if they'll back off & be respectful before leveling them with an all-out attack. And yes, if they don't back off, then give em' the hammer.

 

The point is, if you come out with the gloves off, they're either going to run away or not listen to what you're saying. And it may be good for immediate gratification of the ego, but in the long term, it doesn't do any good. Especially when its someone, if you just gave them a bit of room to see how they're going to react before you bring out the big guns, that might actually listen & learn.

 

And the fact is, being a Christian you're generally more disposed to being a jerk-off because its inherent with religion that you end up saying stupid, harmful & crass remarks many times (there are exceptions, but I'm pretty confident you'll agree that this is common in many Christians).

 

Being people who use their free will & free thinking abilities, you should take into account that an asshole is an asshole. But one who does it because they don't know any better isn't as bad as someone who does it out of spite and willful rage.

[Eponymic]

You think these people are seeking answers?  You ain't been around long enough, I see.

 

Are you considering the motivating factors behind their actions?

 

 

They will make up their own minds as to whether or not they want to leave the church, and we have shit all to do with it.  If they want to leave, they'll come to that conclusion with or without us.

 

True, it's always a person's individual choice. Though you in no way facillitate a person to lean towards leaving Christianity by hammering on them.

 

That's hitting too close to the belt.  How dare you presume to know what I think?  You know nothing, just like everyone else.

 

Fair enough, that was a bit too general on my part. The point of that was really to say that being negative is the easy way out. It's much harder to show benevolence when faced with fuckheads, than it is to play the mud slinging game with them.

 

...I think you lost your paragraph.

 

Indeed I did. The problem of typing before going to work- can't edit properly.

 

That's the same bullshit line they use when they're hurt.  You're sounding more and more like a hit-and-run debater.

 

Really? Hmm. Is it so hard to reasonably understand, or at very least assume that if someone is reacting with malice, it's because they're protecting themselves & it's the only truth they know, and in doing so they are seeking to have it affirmed.

 

I can be civil, but why should I bother when all I seem to get is assholes on both sides saying that I'm wrong about everything?  That kind of destroys your want of civility.

 

So you'd rather just give in and be mean then? Oy.

 

 

p.s. If you still want me to address the stuff I skipped over, please say so & I will.

[Ouroboros]

Eponymic,

 

Yes, I think we come out better on top, if be behave better than the people that come to site and attack us. We should be able to argue in a dignified and cultivated way, and like you said, maybe give some warning shots before we blast them to hell.

 

I think you have a very good point in what your saying. I think we actually agree, and we're just trying to say the same things in different ways.

 

This kind of discussion is good for all of us, it's how the freedom of speech is supposed to work, everyone give their input, and we all learn and change from it. Hopefully to the better.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Eponymic and all...

 

There is going to be no agreed on particular position on what constitutes *proper behavior* here at ExC save for the few Rules and Guidelines on the way into the House..

 

Suspect the *nice folks* wil continue to be *nice*. The more aggressive will be and continue to be so.

 

We are an eclectic mix of persons and expereinces. There is no particular method in which all of us are the same...

 

Attitude gathers attitude..

 

xtians oughta know "What they sow, they reap".

Lotta folks have had their backs so opened up with *gospel farming* that that is just rawwwwwww turf to tread on..

 

These specif sectarians may not be guilty of the assorted atrocities mental and physical that ExC users have had delivered , but they are part of the Xorg, the x-borg, the machine that did the plowing..

 

Lots of things to do and worry about here E, but being nice to preachers isn't high on daFatman's list..

 

n