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Goodbye Jesus

Slamming the Christians


Eponymic

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Yea, Sayeth the Lard. Lol is a sinful word, not meant to be used too many times, or thar be punishment and eternal damnation!

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decent loaf of french bread while yelling "I just want to say FUCK OFF!!", then I threw a handful of bread at him.

 

That sounds like my wife. You aren't related by chance? :grin:

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but i'm a masochist.

:lmao::lmao:

 

People with masochistic sins will go to a special hell, full of fluffy pillows, water fountains, soft elevator music and bright happy colors and all other nice pretty things. (Heaven as Hell)

:grin:

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i like those things too.

 

Damn, you're easy to please! :grin:

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I've actually had people tell me that I've changed their minds by watching me engage someone who clearly has no intention of listening to what I have to say.  One of those enlightened spectators happens to be a mod here right now.

Since you're talking about me, Neil, I'd like to respond. It was because you were exactly like you are, with absolutely NO sugary-syrup garbage added, that you caught my attention and gained my respect and I had to listen to you. I could not resist you because you were so honest. I value honesty and integrity more than anything else. I was in search of truth, not sweetness.

 

Had you been sweeter and more tactful, I might be still trapped in Christianity today. It was your truthful abrasiveness that helped to wear me down. To thine own self be true. I think you would be ineffectual if you tried to be any different.

 

As mean and elitist and cruel as I may be, I make sure to be positive and enlightening to the reader...

And so you were... positive and enlightening.

 

...while the Christian is left swinging in the dark, and the messages I like to promote the most are that it's okay to ask a question, and that it's okay to not know the answer, as long as you have the intellectual honesty to admit this.

And that is precisely one of the things I learned from you.

 

When tact is not natural to someone, all too often too much truth that should be spoken goes unspoken in the effort at being tactful. Wear the shoe that fits or go without shoes.

 

Thanks again, Neil.

 

-Reach

P.S. Great article, TF! I had to save that one.

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I value honesty and integrity more than anything else. I was in search of truth, not sweetness.

 

Hm, now there's something sparked. Hang with me, I have a theory...

 

If our goal is to be deconversion (and I'm not saying that is our goal) then I would wager very few Christians turn ex just because some non-christians were nice to them. At the most you might get someone switching to a milder brand of christianity, a more liberal approach. There's always a "nicer" sect to join up with, there's always some feel-good lovey-dovey folk who would embrace you with open arms as long as you accept their brand of Jesus-talk.

 

Those who want to feel god, can certainly find what they need in any religion, as long as they get in with the right cult. Hey, if I was looking for feel-good I wouldn't have stopped being Christian, I just would have changed denoms or made up my own version of Christianity, if nothing else.

 

But I didn't want feel-good as much as I wanted the truth. Which is why I'm here now. And why I love this place so much.

 

There are lovely feel-good moments, to be sure, but more then anything else, there's this honesty and sincerity here that I can't get enough of. Even when the truth hurts.

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But I didn't want feel-good as much as I wanted the truth.  Which is why I'm here now.  And why I love this place so much.

 

There are lovely feel-good moments, to be sure, but more then anything else, there's this honesty and sincerity here that I can't get enough of.  Even when the truth hurts.

Precisely!

 

And I've never known truth to not hurt. It's like medicine, nasty tasting going down but it makes you better.

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Precisely!

 

And I've never known truth to not hurt. It's like medicine, nasty tasting going down but it makes you better.

 

It's a matter of personal process. Nothing is that all-inclusive. The truth doesn't hurt plenty of times, it's only when you're not really wanting to listen to it or go along with it that it can hurt.

 

As for the sweetness, I'll reiterate again. I'm not talking about giving nothing but candy corn & sweet tea to the Christians. You can lay the truth out there very firm and resolute, like Neil does often times, without being a King Kong dick about it.

 

There's a difference between nice/sweetness & proper tact. You can still lay down the hard, honest truth without being mean. Which I'm guessing is probably what Neil actually did more often than not.

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Okay, normally I try not to dicker about with the meaning of words to the point of pulling dictionary references....but after Eponymic kept going on about how it's not a matter of being "nice", it's a matter of "tact", I decided to look both words up and I think I see what he's trying to get at.

 

I looked at these definitions and was surprised to see how many definitions fit under nice as opposed to tact.

All tact embodies is the ability to communicate with other people without offending them. Now, as far as this forum goes, the only time I think anyone is really and truly offended is when they pick up their ball and go home, aka we don't see them back here.

You can drive a point home with enough force to make a christian debatee's mind reel. You can shock them with blunt and painful insight to how religion is harming more than helping. But they stick around (which says volumes about their own positive character anyway) because they've learned something.

 

When the only goal is to offend, there is no real attempt at understanding, or trying to help someone else see a valid point in an argument. It just boils down to insults. And only insults. I don't think we do that often, but lately I have noticed a stronger tendancy to go straight for the throat....which just means we've been losing our patience faster. I think that is all Eponymic is trying to point out.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tact

 

tact -

1. Acute sensitivity to what is proper and appropriate in dealing with others, including the ability to speak or act without offending.

2. Archaic. The sense of touch.

 

Now....as for Nice.....

 

I've never liked the word nice. It's given adjective status in the dictionary, which I think is completely wrong when describing human behavior. When it comes to communication, nice is a verb. It's something someone does for a particular purpose and goal. Check out the definitions I've bolded the font to. There's your smarmy used car salesman and corporate ass-kisser right there. But it still describes a particular action. A behavior that is exhibited for a specific reason or goal. These people act this way for a reason. They sure aren't going to be acting like that when they go home to spouses, are they? Unless of course they want to be laughed right out of their own home.

 

Tact is a good word for the kind of guarded phrases you use when a good friend hands you their truly ugly baby.

 

Nice is a word for overcompensating your expressions in the same situation.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=nice

 

nice -

1. Pleasing and agreeable in nature: had a nice time.

2. Having a pleasant or attractive appearance: a nice dress; a nice face.

3. Exhibiting courtesy and politeness: a nice gesture.

4. Of good character and reputation; respectable.

5. Overdelicate or fastidious; fussy.

6. Showing or requiring great precision or sensitive discernment; subtle: a nice distinction; a nice sense of style.

7. Done with delicacy and skill: a nice bit of craft.

8. Used as an intensive with and: nice and warm.

 

 

One major thing I noticed about these two definitions, the word nice is not used to describe the definition of tact, and the word tact is not used in any of the various meanings for nice.

 

 

Anyway.....that's my buck o' five.

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  • 2 weeks later...

You all think you have it bad? I'm from the Caribbean, a hotbed for Christianity (slavery was more than just physical whips and chains) and I post on Caribbean sites with religious forums and you don't want to read what I get.

 

On one particular site I used to post as a Christian, going back and forth with the atheists, agnostics, freethinkers, etc. Now I was not your average Christian. I read and studied the Bible (complete wth lexicons, concordances, Bible dictionaries) FOUR times (yes, I had no life). I just about knew every apologetic answer there was, however, despite all of this, the critics always seem to make great points and I had to front that they wer enot affecting and used to love to tell them that "your disbelief just makes me all the more stronger in the word so I appreciate your participation." The Christians on the site loved when I would step in because I had balls, knowledge, ways to explain just about anything UNTIL the wheels began falling off my cart in the bandwagon parade upon actually re-reading the book of Job at chapter 1 and the process of deconversion began culminating in about late 2002.

 

Then in April 2004 there were all these threads about Mel Gibson's movie on that site and I could not take all the gushing going on and I stepped in and posted this:

 

"All this hoopla over a character that may have never existed OR existed, but not with all the bells and whistles that others proclaim."

 

You could hear a feather drop. The shock was intense. Wasn't I the most vocal Christian on the site once upon a time? What the hell happened? So what did I get? Free online psychoanalysis. One christian lady told me I gave up the faith because I was weak, wanted to live the wild life, etc. She even hinted at the fact that I gave it up because I wanted to fornicate. I was called a fool, one who never understood the Gospel, one who was led away by godless authors and my own devices. No one could believe the simplest of all explanations that I gave it up because I came to the realization it was a fraud. I've posted hundreds of threads to show why and still they don't get it. Instead, I still get insults even though I have received private messages from some stating they agree with me and can see my point but are afraid to give it up. So I tried to play mr. nice guy and it failed so the gloves are now off. I am not rude to anyone, but I put a beating on their belief system so hard, they are scared to even reply because they know full well they will be made to look like fools. That is naturally a part of the process whether I want to prove it or not.

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I was called a fool, one who never understood the Gospel, one who was led away by godless authors and my own devices. No one could believe the simplest of all explanations that I gave it up because I came to the realization it was a fraud. I've posted hundreds of threads to show why and still they don't get it.

 

Very Good post, Tyson.

 

Christians never will get it. If they ever acknowledged that there are legitimate reasons for "walking away" as they call it, then that would put a crack in their foundation. All it takes it a little crack for the devil and his deceptions to wiggle in. And we can't have that.

 

It's so much easier for them to always believe that the problem is with the person who left. It's always because they wanted to go back to the fun of sin. It's always because of rebellion against god. It's always because of hardness of heart.

 

These are the "pat" answers provided by the word of god. And it provides christians with a very tidy little rationalization. Of course there could never be a legitimate excuse to leave the fold. Why would anyone want to leave the truth?

 

Meanwhile, christians will not examine any evidence that might cause THEM to question things. That might cause them to search for REAL answers that are found apart from the infallible word of god.

 

There is plenty of evidence available that shines the true light on christianity for anyone brave enough to look.

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Then in April 2004 there were all these threads about Mel Gibson's movie on that site and I could not take all the gushing going on and I stepped in and posted this:

 

"All this hoopla over a character that may have never existed OR existed, but not with all the bells and whistles that others proclaim."

 

You could hear a feather drop. The shock was intense. Wasn't I the most vocal Christian on the site once upon a time?  What the hell happened? So what did I get? Free online psychoanalysis. One christian lady told me I gave up the faith because I was weak, wanted to live the wild life, etc. She even hinted at the fact that I gave it up because I wanted to fornicate. I was called a fool, one who never understood the Gospel, one who was led away by godless authors and my own devices. No one could believe the simplest of all explanations that I gave it up because I came to the realization it was a fraud. I've posted hundreds of threads to show why and still they don't get it. Instead, I still get insults even though I have received private messages from some stating they agree with me and can see my point but are afraid to give it up.

That's really disgusting. It really shows their insecurity when they get that upset with people for simply questioning the existence of just one person in history.

 

On the CD series "Bible Stories That Your Parents Never Taught You", Mike Earl makes an interesting point about the behavior of Christians, stating that it's basically inconsistant with someone who believes in Christ and eternal life in Heaven.

 

You see, to a Christian, this life is mere peanuts to the life that awaits them in Heaven. They believe they're going to live in Heaven. Therefore, the best thign that could ever happen to them or a beloved family member would be an early death while having faith in Jesus Christ. Funerals should be cause for celebration, because a saint has gone marching home, and it will only be a few short decades and they'll all join that glorious saint in the kingdom of Heaven. Hallijuah, brothers and sisters!

 

But that's not how they behave. Instead, they spend their lives avoiding death as much as anyone else. When someone died a mortal death, evenagelical Christians will bawl their eyes out as much as anyone who knows in their heart that a beloved family member is gone for good. Oddly enough, a long, happy life is the most sacred thing to a Christian.

 

Basically, the point is, as Mr. Earl suggests, is that judging by their behavior, the Christians don't believe this shit either. Next time you're among a group of Christians, remind them of that, and see how they react.

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That's really disgusting.  It really shows their insecurity when they get that upset with people for simply questioning the existence of just one person in history.

 

On the CD series "Bible Stories That Your Parents Never Taught You", Mike Earl makes an interesting point about the behavior of Christians, stating that it's basically inconsistant with someone who believes in Christ and eternal life in Heaven.

 

You see, to a Christian, this life is mere peanuts to the life that awaits them in Heaven.  They believe they're going to live in Heaven.  Therefore, the best thign that could ever happen to them or a beloved family member would be an early death while having faith in Jesus Christ.  Funerals should be cause for celebration, because a saint has gone marching home, and it will only be a few short decades and they'll all join that glorious saint in the kingdom of Heaven.  Hallijuah, brothers and sisters!

 

But that's now how they behave.  Instead, they spend their lives avoiding death as much as anyone else.  When someone died a mortal death, evenagelical Christians will bawl their eyes out as much as anyone who knows in their heart that a beloved family member is gone for good.  Oddly enough, a long, happy life is the most sacred thing to a Christian.

 

Basically, the point is, as Mr. Earl suggests, is that judging by their behavior, the Christians don't believe this shit either.  Next time you're among a group of Christians, remind them of that, and see how they react.

 

Hmmm - I'm not sure that I agree with your conclusions about the bhaviour of christians at funerals.

 

Just coz you think you are going to see soemone again in five - ten - twenty - forty years time, isn't going stop anyone blubbing at a funeral is it?

 

I waved goodbye to my son at the airport as he set off for his gap year - I know he's coming back and I know we'll be reunited again soon.

 

But after that last wave - when he disappeared through passport control - I blubbed and blubbed and blubbed. I blubbed all the way home. I bawled when I sat on his bed and buried my head on his pillow just to remind myself of how wonderful he smells. I cried when I automatically laid a place for him at the table.

 

I get a lump in my throat when I read things I wish I could share with him straight away and I get misty eyed when I look at photo's.

 

I still keep seeing kids that look just like him standing at the bus stop - and the missing him still hurts.

 

I believe that he is in the 'best place for him right now' and I look forward to being reunited with him.

 

Just coz I get upset about him being away doesn't mean my previous sentence is some shit I don't actually believe - it just means I miss him.

 

Just coz they believe they will be reunited some day isn't going to stop a christian from crying at a funeral.

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That's why I also made a point about how vigorously they cling to their own lives. Their behavior suggests uncertainty about their own plight. They talk about how glorious it will be heaven and how they actually look forward to the rapture. Their expression is as though this life is of little worth, but their actions tell a different story.

 

They want to live just as long as anyone else.

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That's why I also made a point about how vigorously they cling to their own lives.  Their behavior suggests uncertainty about their own plight.  They talk about how glorious it will be heaven and how they actually look forward to the rapture.  Their expression is as though this life is of little worth, but their actions tell a different story.

 

They want to live just as long as anyone else.

 

What's 'why you also make a point about how vigoursly they cling to their own lives?' I don't follow what you are saying.

 

In terms of wanting to hold onto their own 'earthly' lives I guess most christians would come up with the 'to live is christ to die is gain' - line (or it the other way around?) Just because you think you've got a wonderful heaven to go to - isn't going to stop you wanting to live this life as well - unless maybe it's a crap one.

 

My Father wanted to live a long earthly life because he wanted to see his children take their first steps, go off to school, grow and learn, fall in love, give birth to his grandchildren, see his grandchildren take their first steps, grow and learn ....

 

The thought that he would be reunited with everyone at some stage in the future - was the icing on the cake for him, but didn't stop him loving every minute of the journey there.

 

When he dying he struggled briefly with feelings of jealousy - over all the stuff we'd get to do and see that he would miss out on whilst his 'soul' was at rest awaiting judgement day when the dead would rise again.

 

He wasn't one who believed he'd somehow be 'looking on' from a cloud - and even if he was - where is the comfort in that? Its one thing to watch a grandchild from a great distance - it's quite another to feel their little hand in yours.

 

I guess you think I'm being picky here ... but first you seemed to suggest that crying at funerals meant that chrsitians don't really believe in an after life - and now you seem to be suggesting that loving life suggests the same.

 

I'm all for pointing out things that don't ring true - but on both these points I think you are wrong.

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But that's now how they behave.  Instead, they spend their lives avoiding death as much as anyone else.  When someone died a mortal death, evenagelical Christians will bawl their eyes out as much as anyone who knows in their heart that a beloved family member is gone for good.  Oddly enough, a long, happy life is the most sacred thing to a Christian.

 

Basically, the point is, as Mr. Earl suggests, is that judging by their behavior, the Christians don't believe this shit either.  Next time you're among a group of Christians, remind them of that, and see how they react.

 

EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY right. Christians always have in their mind a sliver (or a big wedge) of doubt, regardless of what they say.

 

The anti- Romans 1 argument.

 

Hesitant: the point is not that a christian is sad at a funeral.. or that they won't miss their loved one.

 

The point is that they grieve just as hard and suffer just as much and just as long as a non-christian when they lose a loved one.

 

Unless, of course, the dead person wasn't a christian. Then the christian always has to resolve things by thinking, well, maybe somehow God will make a way. I can't believe that God would send dear old grandad to hell. He was such a good man...

 

Another way it's obvious that they don't really believe it, is because of the way they live. If they really really believed this, then they would be everywhere, trying to spread the gospel. They'd be outside the supermarkets, they'd be in the parks, they'd be going door to door every day.

 

They wouldn't be out on the lake with the jet-skis on saturdays.

 

You see one christian in a thousand who is this committed to the gospel

 

If they really believed it, they would do EVERYTHING in their power to help save the lost. Even if they only got through to one person a month, that's still HUGE. You changed all eternity for that one person.

 

Something like 90% of christians have never led a person to christ.

 

Most christians think, well, I really don't want to push it on anyone. It will only cause an argument.

 

If they truly truly believed all of this, you would see different behavior.

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In terms of wanting to hold onto their own 'earthly' lives I guess most christians would come up with the 'to live is christ to die is gain' - line (or it the other way around?) Just because you think you've got a wonderful heaven to go to - isn't going to stop you wanting to live this life as well - unless maybe it's a crap one.
But that's precisely what they say! This existence of wicked and full of sin. They're born into sin and are deserving of life in hell. That's what they claim to believe of this life.

 

Therefore, ascention would be the ultimate glory; a release from this life of sin caused by Adam and Even. Yet none of them want to go. They put it off as long as possible.

 

I'll use an analogy. Let's say you're released from prison. You may miss all of your friends, but jeez.. you're getting out! You're going to a better place. Most people want to get out of the bad places, even if it comes at some degree of loss. To a Christian, life on Earth is a lowly existence of sin.

 

Their behavior does not match their claimed belief. :scratch:

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EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY right.  Christians always have in their mind a sliver (or a big wedge) of doubt, regardless of what they say.

 

The anti- Romans 1 argument.

 

Hesitant:  the point is not that a christian is sad at a funeral.. or that they won't miss their loved one.

 

The point is that they grieve just as hard and suffer just as much and just as long as a non-christian when they lose a loved one. 

 

 

I don't see what point that makes. Both sets of people grieve for and experience the loss of somone they will not see for the rest of their earthly lives. Whatever the belief about eternity - it doesn't take this pain away in the here and now - because the christian grieves in the here and now isn't a reason to doubt they have a belief that sometime in the future they will be reunited with that person.

 

 

Unless, of course, the dead person wasn't a christian.  Then the christian always has to resolve things by thinking, well, maybe somehow God will make a way.  I can't believe that God would send dear old grandad to hell.  He was such a good man...

 

Another way it's obvious that they don't really believe it, is because of the way they live.  If they really really believed this, then they would be everywhere, trying to spread the gospel.  They'd be outside the supermarkets, they'd be in the parks, they'd be going door to door every day.

 

They wouldn't be out on the lake with the jet-skis on saturdays.

 

but only if they thought the things you describe would actually lead anyone to christ ... most christians I know are fully aware of the futility of door to door and supermarket evangelism.

 

You see one christian in a thousand who is this committed to the gospel

 

If they really believed it, they would do EVERYTHING in their power to help save the lost.  Even if they only got through to one person a month, that's still HUGE.  You changed all eternity for that one person.

 

this sounds like something that was said to you by a preacher who was trying to make you feel guilty for fitting a particular mould.  I left my last church because of that kind of teaching - it's pyramid selling given a christian label.

 

My take on sharing the gospel when I was a christian was that I would love the people god had placed in my path with all my heart - and that I would walk with them and walk with them - and share the love of god with them whenever they asked, and help them when they needed help, and laugh with them and cry with them and be with them.

 

I was never going to do hard gospel sell with them - just as I was never going to sell water softners or tupperware.Something like 90% of christians have never led a person to christ.

 

Most christians think, well, I really don't want to push it on anyone.  It will only cause an argument.

 

If they truly truly believed all of this, you would see different behavior.

 

 

Maybe you are water softner/tupperware/pyramid selling kind of guy... if this is the case then if you'd have believed everything the church was saying the Bible says then yes - I'd expect you to have been buying into the door to door supermarket routine.

 

I think there's some really unreasoned slamming going on here.

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Hesitant: let me ask you this:

 

Let's say that you were clairvoyant.

 

You knew for sure that when you saw something, it was going to happen.

 

You had a premonition of your neighbor dying in a car crash two weeks from next tuesday.

 

What would you do? You wouldn't care what he thought of you. You'd do everything in your power to warn him. You wouldn't be concerned whether you were getting through to him or not.

 

This is my point.

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There is a very eloquent atheist on that site and he once asked, "Why is it that Christians cannot get used to the idea that people can be happy in their own skins?" There is this warped notion [some] Christians have that unless you're a Christian you're not happy, not at peace, tormented, etc. Nothing could be further from the truth as I have lived amongst Christians for the greater part of my life and if you want to find uptight, constipated, miserable people, check them. To top it off, it really pisses many of them off that you can actually live a RESPONSIBLE life without any crutch called "god" which shows their glaring defect in their own character.

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But that's precisely what they say!  This existence of wicked and full of sin.  They're born into sin and are deserving of life in hell.  That's what they claim to believe of this life.

 

Therefore, ascention would be the ultimate glory; a release from this life of sin caused by Adam and Even.  Yet none of them want to go.  They put it off as long as possible.

 

I'll use an analogy.  Let's say you're released from prison.  You may miss all of your friends, but jeez.. you're getting out!  You're going to a better place.  Most people want to get out of the bad places, even if it comes at some degree of loss.  To a Christian, life on Earth is a lowly existence of sin.

 

Their behavior does not match their claimed belief. :scratch:

 

This analogy only works if it was a prison full of everyone you love and care about - including your children. A prison where many of those you love want to stay and where - even if everyone you care about was with you on wanting to 'escape' to the better place - you'd been instructed to remain by your commander in chief and the word was he had a great and glorious plan that ONLY you could fulfill and if you stick to this plan many many more people will escape to gloroius freedom as a result (and the wing on your on hold great block parties to raise morale every once in a while)

 

You'd certainly feel torn when you got your 'release' papers ...

 

Then it's a bit different .....

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I think there's some really unreasoned slamming going on here.
Pointing out inconsistant behavior is not "slamming".

 

My statements use the claims of Christians themselves. An Earthly life is a life of sin and deserving of hellfire, from which they turn to Jesus for salvation. To a Christian, Earth is terrible.

 

When someone dies, it's the ultimate glory. A saint goes marching home. They're going to be with God! That beats anything they could have on Earth. Their faith even says so. They know they're going to a place of unrivaled happiness. Yet they cling to life, anyway.

 

It's not unreasonable to call inconsistant behavior into question.

 

Compare this to the muslims. The only thing they're told is that martyrdom with bring them glory, and they can't wait to get outta here! But most people exposed to the science of western civilization are certainly aware of the problems of the afterlife, and they cling tenaciously to their earthly vessels. :scratch:

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Pointing out inconsistant behavior is not "slamming".

 

My statements use the claims of Christians themselves.  An Earthly life is a life of sin and deserving of hellfire, from which they turn to Jesus for salvation.  To a Christian, Earth is terrible.

 

When someone dies, it's the ultimate glory.  A saint goes marching home.  They're going to be with God!  That beats anything they could have on Earth.  Their faith even says so.  They know they're going to a place of unrivaled happiness.  Yet they cling to life, anyway.

 

It's not unreasonable to call inconsistant behavior into question.

 

You suggest that just because someone is believed to be going to something 'gloroius' it is inconsistent for them to cry when they say goodbye for what will possibly be decades before the reunion that they believe in.

 

How is it inconsistent to cry and be sad when you will not see someone for the rest of your earthly life? I do not see how this suggests that the belief in the afterlife is not really believed in (thus my example of the pain in my heart when I said goodbye to my son for a year - it's a 'glorious' opportunity for him and I believe he is coming back - but it hurts like hell not to have him loitering at the fridge looking for snax right now)

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Hesitant, Mr. Neil is right.  If a sect of Christianity believes that upon death, one is instantly in the heavenly realms, there should be some serious rejoicing going on.  A big ole' Hallejuah part-ay!! :woohoo:

 

I guess I should have come home and partied when my son left for his gap year then. Following this line of reasoning suggests that I didn't really believe it was the great opportunity I say it is.

 

Just because you think someone has gone to better place - isn't going to stop you feeling sad that they are not here in the here and now with you.

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Again, you're taking only one of my examples and ignoring the other. Take the stronger example of the person who clings to life. According to Christian dogma, nothing is greater than going to be God. It's salvation via Jesus Christ.

 

Jesus even says that Christians should love him as though they hate their own families. If you're a Christian, God is more important, and Earth is terrible. Period! End of discussion!

 

So why do Christians cling to tenaciously life? :scratch:

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