Slamming the Christians

[Merlinfmct87]

Tact and consiteration have always been things I give to people as a standard... in other words, they don't have to earn my respect, it is something I give to a person along with the welcome basket when I meet them.

 

Can a person prove themselves unworthy of that respect? Most certainly. Start talking about how I am an evil godless satanist(explain THAT one to me please!) or how we all hate god and such, that we hove to take it on faith that the Bible isn't true, etc, I will get very impatient.

 

What I try to look for is the motive of the poster here. Are they here to learn and ask genuine questions, or are they here to stroke their own dogma and lure people back into the insanity that nealy killed them in many cases?

 

If they are here for reason one, I have no quarral with them and hope they find the answers they seek.

 

If they are here for reason two... they are here to do harm, plain and simple. Something I can't imagine allowing to go unchallanged.

 

What this question really should be is "What is the purpose of this site?"

 

Is it to provide a safe refuge, a defensive castle if you will against the religious zealotry and ignorance that seems so prevelant today? To allow new apostates a place to breathe and heal? To be able to talk with someone who doesn't think you are of the devil?

 

Or is our place here a more offensive/active one? Are we actively fighting against Christianity, even going so far as to try to convert the christians who come here?

 

I believe it's the first, though this is my own opinion, not supported by any mission statement or conversation with .:webmaster:..

 

I'm probably *very* out to lunch here... which is nothing new for me.

 

Merlin

[dogmatically_challenged]

What this question really should be is "What is the purpose of this site?"

 

Is it to provide a safe refuge, a defensive castle if you will against the religious zealotry and ignorance that seems so prevelant today? To allow new apostates a place to breathe and heal? To be able to talk with someone who doesn't think you are of the devil?

 

Or is our place here a more offensive/active one? Are we actively fighting against Christianity, even going so far as to try to convert the christians who come here?

 

I believe it's the first, though this is my own opinion, not supported by any mission statement or conversation with .:webmaster:..

 

I'm probably *very* out to lunch here... which is nothing new for me.

 

Merlin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats the beautiful thing about freethought. We are free agents. All of us. Some of us are trying to deconvert Christians. But so what of it? The Christian religion is unpredictable in that we can never know what will come from it in the future. We know of it's past and what it is at present. The bible and its mix of love and hate, tolerance and bigotry is very confusing and for that reason believing that that book is the word of a god will always be a problem for humanity.

 

I am unabashedly unashamed for trying to deconvert Christians. I try not to be hateful about it though.

 

If attempts at deconverting Christians is an activety not welcome here I am unaware of it. I will respect the Webmaster if it is not the thing to do here.

 

For now I will say that there is nothing wrong with it. Can you show me wizard why it may be wrong?

[Amethyst]

That's them. But they too are sandbaggers and still perpetuate bigotry just by saying that the bible is the word of god

 

I disagree. That's what they've been brainwashed to believe. They don't hate anyone. They're not bigoted. They're just brainwashed and haven't found the courage to leave. If anything, I feel sorry for them, but I don't hate them.

[Cerise]

since when are hate and ignorance synonyms?

[Reach]

Some of us are trying to deconvert Christians. But so what of it?

 

I am unabashedly unashamed for trying to deconvert Christians.

Precisely. Some of us are still evangelists.

 

The WebMaster welcomes evangelism on this site, specifically in the Debates Forum:

This is the section of the board to post Christian opinions, arguments, sermons and so on. Even agressive evangelism will be tolerated in this section of the forum.

 

However, do expect very heated responses.

 

Number One: Aggressive evangelism will be tolerated in Debates.

Number Two: Heated responses should be expected.

 

Dave's warnings are made clear to everyone. Passive-aggressive dancers need not enter the debates forum. Their toes will get stepped on when they do. Remember what your mama taught you: If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[Totallyatpeace]

QUOTE(Totallyatpeace @ Jun 19 2005, 09:31 PM)

If you want to ask me something specific, then ask me one question at a time.

 

There is no denying that every Christian here is bombarded with questions and ad hominem attacks. You know were the one on one debate section is though. You can pick your people.

 

DC~ This is nothing but a time issue and a choice to spend my time doing other things. If I were to enter the debate arena one on one with someone it would be Reach. To properly participate in a debate it would require me hours of time of research that I don't have.

 

Besides.....I will be leaving soon to a foreign country and be gone for nearly a month with no computer access. It will probably please you to know that I will be living in an environment surrounded by Hindus rather than Christians.

[Reach]

"What is the purpose of this site?"

 

Is it to provide a safe refuge, a defensive castle if you will against the religious zealotry and ignorance that seems so prevelant today? To allow new apostates a place to breathe and heal? To be able to talk with someone who doesn't think you are of the devil?

 

Or is our place here a more offensive/active one? Are we actively fighting against Christianity, even going so far as to try to convert the christians who come here?

 

I believe it's the first, though this is my own opinion, not supported by any mission statement or conversation with .:webmaster:..

Merlin, based on the posts that our WebMaster has made over the years on Ex-C, it is quite apparent that this site exists for more than one single purpose. Clearly and evidently, a secondary purpose of this site is a proactive one, to educate truth-seeking Christians and ourselves that we might be able to fight against the tides of Christianity.

 

Just like the passive-aggressive Christian member, some may not appear to have much fight in them, but they can leave the battle to the others who are willing and equipping themselves to fight the insidious evil that Christianity is...

 

 

Insidious:

Etymology: Latin insidiosus, from insidiae ambush, from insidEre to sit in, sit on, from in- + sedEre to sit —more at SIT

Date: 1545

1 a : awaiting a chance to entrap : TREACHEROUS b : harmful but enticing : SEDUCTIVE <insidious drugs>

2 a : having a gradual and cumulative effect : SUBTLE <the insidious pressures of modern life> b : of a disease : developing so gradually as to be well established before becoming apparent

 

 

Christanity is an insidious evil. Those caught in her trap deserve to be rescued, if at all possible. Or, disliking all the confrontation and wanting to avoid being anything but nice, do we care enough to do bother with the battle?

 

I love my children enough to want them to be completely free from Christianity and so I work toward that end, in the most loving, but blunt and honest way I am able. Why do I bother to try to bring my two children out of Christianity? I love them and want what is best for them. I learned something a long time ago: Poison is not good for us.

 

Do I always like my bluntness? No, not really. But time does not always allow me the freedom of couching every unappetizing truth in the sweetest of honey buns.

[Reach]

If I were to enter the debate arena one on one with someone it would be Reach. To properly participate in a debate it would require me hours of time of research that I don't have.

TAP, when you get back from your trip, if you ever want to sit down and have a polite and public discussion with me, that would be great. I know you dislike debate. I'd love to do an online interview with you, nothing out of the ordinary, just the normal format, informal, question and answer.

[Totallyatpeace]

TAP, when you get back from your trip, if you ever want to sit down and have a polite and public discussion with me, that would be great. I know you dislike debate. I'd love to do an online interview with you, nothing out of the ordinary, just the normal format, informal, question and answer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Deal.

 

I hate debate. Questions and interviews I could handle, though you will not like my answers.

 

Regarding the Christian/Non-Christian debate...there is only one thing to really debate--- and that is whether the Word of God is true or not.

 

Every single answer to any debate with a Christian will fall back on that so to me, it's pointless.

[Vigile]

Regarding the Christian/Non-Christian debate...there is only one thing to really debate--- and that is whether the Word of God is true or not.

 

 

 

Uhhh... No, not quite true.

 

For even if the bible were true you still have the problem of interpretation. Everyone has their own, even those who are reading it with aid of the spirit.

[Mythra]

What this question really should be is "What is the purpose of this site?"

 

Is it to provide a safe refuge, a defensive castle if you will against the religious zealotry and ignorance that seems so prevelant today? To allow new apostates a place to breathe and heal? To be able to talk with someone who doesn't think you are of the devil?

 

Or is our place here a more offensive/active one? Are we actively fighting against Christianity, even going so far as to try to convert the christians who come here?

Merlin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why can't it be both? I've tried to never say a rude thing to tap. She's pretty cool in my book. And I'd kinda hate to see her leave Christianity, if it's not causing her any grief.

 

It's kinda like (and, I really don't mean this to sound condescending) trying to convince a 4 year old that there is no santa claus. Why do it? It gives em happiness, brings joy to their life.

 

But IMHO, TAP has no chance of remaining a christian if she keeps hangin out in these circles. Unless she is very very selective about what she reads.

 

You can have all kinds of faith that the moon is made out of green cheese, but you'd better not start reading any books about astronomy.

 

But, when there's a thumper comes in here like invictus, aaryn, college kid, or others, let's get it on. Go ahead fire off some scriptures. But get ready to duke it out. And they don't stay very long when they find out we are not bible illiterate.

 

So, this site should be both. Civil when civility is called for, and force met with force. Makes sense to me.

[Totallyatpeace]

But IMHO, TAP has no chance of remaining a christian if she keeps hangin out in these circles.  Unless she is very very selective about what she reads.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You figured me out, Mythra.

 

I just kept reading, instead. But you're right.... my time here is limited.

 

Side note** You can't possibly know how many times I have almost PM'd you regarding something you have said.

[Mythra]

I'm here, Tapper. what is it? PM's fine.

[I Broke Free]

though you will not like my answers.

 

 

TAP

I may not agree with your answers, but when I read them here or on TF, I always enjoy reading them. They always come from the heart and never offend.

 

IBF

[Reach]

Deal.

 

I hate debate. Questions and interviews I could handle, though you will not like my answers.

You're on, TAP. Let me know if and when you want to start.

 

You might be surprised about what I like and don't like. Most of all, I respect people who have done some thinking and are open and honest, with any agendas exposed. That's how I operate. (There's nothing wrong with an agenda either. We ought to have them but our "work" need not always be covert.)

[Ouroboros]

What this question really should be is "What is the purpose of this site?"

 

Is it to provide a safe refuge, a defensive castle if you will against the religious zealotry and ignorance that seems so prevelant today? To allow new apostates a place to breathe and heal? To be able to talk with someone who doesn't think you are of the devil?

 

Or is our place here a more offensive/active one? Are we actively fighting against Christianity, even going so far as to try to convert the christians who come here?

I think it has to be both, because I don’t think every Christian that visits this site know why they do it, or what emotions that drives them to come here. It can be curiosity and doubts in their own life, and they just want to understand apostasy. Some of the come here to give us the holy high-roller proof of God and the Bible, but we usually can recognize them in just a few responses.

 

It does bother me that sometimes when a good discussion with some Christian is going on, and there’s some nasty word exchanges that is started and suddenly you don’t get any responses from this Christian anymore, and I feel a loss when that happens, because for me, the discussion leads to more knowledge and understanding of each other, not only being able to de-convert someone. So sometimes we should show a little more respect and be better people than the visiting Christians, and hence prove that we’ve found the better life.

 

 

Precisely. Some of us are still evangelists. 

 

The WebMaster welcomes evangelism on this site, specifically in the Debates Forum:

Number One: Aggressive evangelism will be tolerated in Debates.

Number Two: Heated responses should be expected.

 

Dave's warnings are made clear to everyone. Passive-aggressive dancers need not enter the debates forum. Their toes will get stepped on when they do. Remember what your mama taught you: If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. 

Exactly, I don’t mind evangelism from Christians, I feel it exciting, and the challenge makes up for a good sport. There’s no reason to lash out, unless the opponent is unresponsive and clearly repetitive. It would be nice if we held back harsh language at least until the opponent has posted a couple of replies, so we know what kind of person we’re dealing with.

 

Why can't it be both?  I've tried to never say a rude thing to tap.  She's pretty cool in my book.  And I'd kinda hate to see her leave Christianity, if it's not causing her any grief.

 

It's kinda like (and, I really don't mean this to sound condescending) trying to convince a 4 year old that there is no santa claus.  Why do it?  It gives em happiness, brings joy to their life.

 

But IMHO, TAP has no chance of remaining a christian if she keeps hangin out in these circles.  Unless she is very very selective about what she reads.

 

You can have all kinds of faith that the moon is made out of green cheese, but you'd better not start reading any books about astronomy.

 

But, when there's a thumper comes in here like invictus, aaryn, college kid, or others, let's get it on.  Go ahead fire off some scriptures.  But get ready to duke it out.  And they don't stay very long when they find out we are not bible illiterate.

 

So, this site should be both.  Civil when civility is called for, and force met with force.  Makes sense to me.

I agree. Eventually there is a chance (sorry to give you heads up here TAP), that TAP and other curious and open minded Christians will leave their faith. As long as we don’t scare them for what it means to be an apostate. If we behave like monsters, the chance is less, because they won’t listen to us or they don’t want to become us. So I’d like to see a bit more courteous behavior, especially before we know a members personality and “version” of faith.

 

This is not an argument to never bash someone in a discussion, I just don’t want the first response to be hateful to someone that started a topic, and the guy just didn’t know how to address his question to us, and before he even responds he has 10 hateful messages telling him to get out. Let new people have a chance to answer for what they say a couple of times before they’re chewed out, that’s all I’m saying. If they don’t behave, or if they start the lashing out, then I think it should be free-for-all, and they should feel the pain.

[Mythra]

Yeah, I hear ya, Hans. And I'm probably as guilty as anyone hear about turning into an instant asshole at the least provocation. I'll try to keep your comments in mind.

 

But about understanding christians. I already do understand christians. Quite well. I was one for a very long time.

 

I think what christians will find the most shocking here, is that we (as apostates) are quite happy and not conflicted at all.

 

I was always told, (and I believed from personal experience) that backsliders were the most miserable people on earth. This is probably true, because they think that they are letting God down, and that there is something wrong with them.

 

Being an apostate is quite a different matter. It is the most freeing experience in the world when you fully realize, deep down inside, that the bible is not true. There is no mean Jehovah God looking over your shoulder, like Orwell's Big Brother. There is no GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT to worry about.

 

This realization causes an "Unbearable lightness of being", as far as I'm concerned.

[dogmatically_challenged]

I disagree.  That's what they've been brainwashed to believe.  They don't hate anyone.  They're not bigoted.  They're just brainwashed and haven't found the courage to leave.  If anything, I feel sorry for them, but I don't hate them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You have just said EXACYLTY what I have said with the exception of calling a spade a spade. They are connected even though they have good intentions. I did say that I believe that we all are victoms of Christianity, Christians and NonChristians alike.

[dogmatically_challenged]

DC~ This is nothing but a time issue and a choice to spend my time doing other things. If I were to enter the debate arena one on one with someone it would be Reach. To properly participate in a debate it would require me hours of time of research that I don't have.

 

Besides.....I will be leaving soon to a foreign country and be gone for nearly a month with no computer access.  It will probably please you to know that I will be living in an environment surrounded by Hindus rather than Christians. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WOW! India! I envy you! I hope it is a wonderful experience. Depending on where you go you may get bumbed out though. But you should do o.k. regardless.

 

 

--Tap. Consider this: The fact that I lean on you could be taken as a compliment as I do not waste my time with many kinds of religionists. You are a different kind of person. I value you.....even if you stay a Christian. However, I will always be blunt with intelligent people.--

[Ouroboros]

Yeah, I hear ya, Hans.  And I'm probably as guilty as anyone hear about turning into an instant asshole at the least provocation.

And I’m as just as guilty, and trying to control myself too.

 

But about understanding christians.  I already do understand christians.  Quite well. I was one for a very long time.

I thought so too, until I realized that even the things I thought every Christian would agree with me on, wasn’t so. There are so many variations of the Christian faith that I’ve seen from the encounters on this site. And all the different backgrounds all members have, it was rather surprising that my idea of a fundie was not the same for everyone else. So in a sense I’m becoming more easygoing with the Christians visiting this site.

 

I think what christians will find the most shocking here, is that we (as apostates) are quite happy and not conflicted at all.

And that’s exactly what I want them to continue to do. I don’t want them to come here and find apostates angry and hateful, but rather content and clearheaded. It’s almost like the Bible teaches that our actions are the best testimony for our “faith”.

 

I was always told, (and I believed from personal experience) that backsliders were the most miserable people on earth.  This is probably true, because they think that they are letting God down, and that there is something wrong with them.

I was also told that, so that held me back from realizing I’ve lost my faith. I didn’t want to lose it because I didn’t want to become evil, mean spirited and miserable. And when I finally de-converted, my life changed to the better. That was a big surprise!

 

Being an apostate is quite a different matter.  It is the most freeing experience in the world when you fully realize, deep down inside, that the bible is not true.  There is no mean Jehovah God looking over your shoulder, like Orwell's  Big Brother.  There is no GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT to worry about.

 

This realization causes an "Unbearable lightness of being", as far as I'm concerned.

Totally agree.

 

And sometimes I feel I get frustrated with Christians debating because they can’t “see the light”, even after many postings and arguments, and some of that frustration comes out to look like anger, while it in many cases is not. It’s more of confidence and assertiveness, and I don’t think everyone understands the confrontational power a freed mind has.

[Totallyatpeace]

WOW! India! I envy you! I hope it is a wonderful experience. Depending on where you go you may get bumbed out though. But you should do o.k. regardless.

--Tap. Consider this: The fact that I lean on you could be taken as a compliment as I do not waste my time with many kinds of religionists. You are a different kind of person. I value you.....even if you stay a Christian. However, I will always be blunt with intelligent people.--

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'll try and take that to heart.

[Mythra]

Besides.....I will be leaving soon to a foreign country and be gone for nearly a month with no computer access.  It will probably please you to know that I will be living in an environment surrounded by Hindus rather than Christians. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dang, Tap. You really are trying to reach the world for christ. You just go from one group of heathens to another. Hope you have more luck converting them than you did us.

 

Wish you the best, kiddo. Don't let anyone chop off your head.

 

 

(that should be the missionaries' form of "break a leg")

[Totallyatpeace]

I'm not too worried about my head getting chopped off but I've been told if my taxi happens to hit and kill a cow........I should bolt out of there and disappear quickly.

 

I will be working with children at a home for girls that were thrown away at birth. (literally rescued from the garbage)

 

That is the mission at hand.

[Ouroboros]

I will be working with children at a home for girls that were thrown away at birth. (literally rescued from the garbage)

 

That is the mission at hand.

Which proves that people can be really whacko in other religions too. It's to sad with India, China and many Muslim countries, that they kill or abandon the girls, and still later, they don't have enough women to marry and make more babies.

 

At that point they probably say "Huh? How strange, no women? God must be punishing us!"

 

I hope you will make a difference and be to good help over there TAP, it's a good thing you're doing.

[Merlinfmct87]

Merlin, based on the posts that our WebMaster has made over the years on Ex-C, it is quite apparent that this site exists for more than one single purpose. Clearly and evidently, a secondary purpose of this site is a proactive one, to educate truth-seeking Christians and ourselves that we might be able to fight against the tides of Christianity.

 

Just like the passive-aggressive Christian member, some may not appear to have much fight in them, but they can leave the battle to the others who are willing and equipping themselves to fight the insidious evil that Christianity is...

Insidious:

Etymology: Latin insidiosus, from insidiae ambush, from insidEre to sit in, sit on, from in- + sedEre to sit —more at SIT

Date: 1545

1 a : awaiting a chance to entrap : TREACHEROUS b : harmful but enticing : SEDUCTIVE <insidious drugs>

2 a : having a gradual and cumulative effect : SUBTLE <the insidious pressures of modern life> b : of a disease : developing so gradually as to be well established before becoming apparent

Christanity is an insidious evil. Those caught in her trap deserve to be rescued, if at all possible. Or, disliking all the confrontation and wanting to avoid being anything but nice, do we care enough to do bother with the battle?

 

I love my children enough to want them to be completely free from Christianity and so I work toward that end, in the most loving, but blunt and honest way I am able. Why do I bother to try to bring my two children out of Christianity? I love them and want what is best for them. I learned something a long time ago: Poison is not good for us.

 

Do I always like my bluntness? No, not really. But time does not always allow me the freedom of couching every unappetizing truth in the sweetest of honey buns.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you had any clue what an utter mindfuck this post is to me, you would be disgusted with me.

 

I'm trying to come up with a responce that's a little more solid than "It don't feel right." I'm not blowing you off or ignoring you. I have far too much respect for you to do either.

 

Merlin