Pray! Or Starve!

[willybilly30]

At work we had thanksgiving dinner we was in a long line.

The plant manager said we are fixing to bless the food.

I said I'm not religious can I go ahead and eat?

My friend jennifer slapped me on the arm, and said you should say grace!

I said I don't eny other time.

The plant manager said you either pray with us or starve.

Jennifer said you should pray before you eat.

(funny I never seen her, or anybody pray at lunch or break before or after Thanksgiving.)

This is unfair! to me, also too my friend Susan who is pagan I wonder if she would've heard me would she of joined me in my argument.

I prayed anyway well....acted like it but, I didn't shout Amen after the prayer.

I don't see any point in it the food don.t come from a god.

Why bless this food, but not other foods?

I kept my eyes open, and I didn't see a blessing what's supposed to happen?

God comes floating in a cloud and sprinkles pixie dust I guess

I don't believe in god anymore it makes less and less since the more I think about it.

Seems like christians make me think about it the most

[Curtdude]

Wow, where do you work? That seems totally out of line to me, unless you work at a church owned facility, like a nursing home or something like that.

 

Years ago I worked at a Catholic hospital (Sisters of Providence) and they NEVER pulled stuff like that. It was against their belief to ask unbelievers/nonchristians be hypocrites.

 

[Fweethawt]

My friend jennifer slapped me on the arm, and said you should say grace!

I said I don't eny other time.

The plant manager said you either pray with us or starve.

You should have taken your friend up on the offer to say Grace™...

 

Close your eyes, fold your hands and say, "God -- damn I'm hungry! Let's eat!"

[Mongo]

My wife wanted to say grace at thanksgiving. What am I to do, say no?

 

I don't close my eyes or bow my head but I keep quiet with my eyes open and watch my kids do the same.

 

Now... this being a work place, by insisting you say grace with them, they create a "hostile environment".

 

If you plan to leave sometimes, **after** you get a new job and collect a good reference form them, you might report them to the human rights tribunal or whatever you have whereever you are.

 

If you plan on staying there, I'm wondering why you didn't "starve" in gleeful protest. Gleeful because you've been handed an opportuntiy to make them look like the dorks they are and there is a certain satisfaction I would get from that.

 

Of course, you are young and young people hate to pass up turkey and such.

 

You know, my company has Christmas dinners and used to host a party each year. I used to go without any thought of jebus. One muslim I know went. She is a smoker and from my observations of Islam, she wears the clothes but not the attitude. She is cool.

 

I really admire your ability to stand up Willybilly!

 

Mongo

[Antlerman]

If they really said this to you and you have a witness to support you... guess they don't care too much about paying you some dough to keep you from reporting them for religious coercion in the work place?

 

Here's the guidlines for employment in the federal workplace: http://clinton2.nara.gov/WH/New/html/19970819-3275.html

 

Section 1. Guidelines for Religious Exercise and Religious Expression in the Federal Workplace. Executive departments and agencies ("agencies") shall permit personal religious expression by Federal employees to the greatest extent possible, consistent with requirements of law and interests in workplace efficiency as described in this set of Guidelines. Agencies shall not discriminate against employees on the basis of religion, require religious participation or non-participation as a condition of employment, or permit religious harassment. And agencies shall accommodate employees' exercise of their religion in the circumstances specified in these Guidelines. These requirements are but applications of the general principle that agencies shall treat all employees with the same respect and consideration, regardless of their religion (or lack thereof).

 

I'm sure there are laws in your state that he violated by those comments and is putting himself into a position to have his ass served to him for next Thanksgiving. Care that much about your job to not worry about serving him his next Turkey Day? Maybe you can get a big fat raise out of him for opening his big fat mouth too widely this year?

[Fweethawt]

If you plan on staying there, I'm wondering why you didn't "starve" in gleeful protest. Gleeful because you've been handed an opportuntiy to make them look like the dorks they are and there is a certain satisfaction I would get from that.

That would have been pretty cool, too.

 

"Fine then. I won't eat... Just tell me what changed in the food after you say your prayer besides the fact that it's another minute or two cooler."

[fallenleaf]

I'd say you have a damn good case for religious discrimination and harrassment in the workplace. First thing I would do is talk to your plant manager's boss and try and resolve it within the chain of command in the company. Any reasonable "higher-up" is going to recognize the legal implications right away and should be more than willing to make things right (public apology from plant manager and clarification on what is and is not acceptable in the work place). I think that's the most you should ask for. Of course, if you get no satisfaction from the chain of command you'll have to seek outside help and then a simple apology won't do.

 

But that this guy did and said was just wrong and very likely illegal (there would be only a few corner cases where this would not have been).

[willybilly30]

That would've been a good idea I wish I thought of protesting by not eating.

Their is so much I could report them for. I don't know if I'm ready for that yet.

This towns got more christians than its got grass. I'd have a big battle.

Maybe I should email Alabama Atheists about this

I wish I could find more in my area seems like they all are in big citys.

I'm not suprised.

But who knows maybe their were some in that line, but They just wanted to be silent.

 

 

Wow, where do you work? That seems totally out of line to me, unless you work at a church owned facility, like a nursing home or something like that.

 

Years ago I worked at a Catholic hospital (Sisters of Providence) and they NEVER pulled stuff like that. It was against their belief to ask unbelievers/nonchristians be hypocrites.

 

 

Colby Furniture it's a furniture plant.

 

I'd say you have a damn good case for religious discrimination and harrassment in the workplace. First thing I would do is talk to your plant manager's boss and try and resolve it within the chain of command in the company. Any reasonable "higher-up" is going to recognize the legal implications right away and should be more than willing to make things right (public apology from plant manager and clarification on what is and is not acceptable in the work place). I think that's the most you should ask for. Of course, if you get no satisfaction from the chain of command you'll have to seek outside help and then a simple apology won't do.

 

But that this guy did and said was just wrong and very likely illegal (there would be only a few corner cases where this would not have been).

 

Religious discrimination is a way of life in this town i'm afraid. I wish I could move. I hate the bible belt.

Alabama is bible belt as it gets.

[Hineni]

Good for you, WillyB! It's at least a step in raising consciousness in others around you. I'm still not quite brave enough to voice things of that nature....well, only to a select few of my friends and family. I endeavor to imporve in that area.

 

We also had a thanksgiving lunch, and as is his custom, the vice president said a prayer. Yeah, I kept my eyes open, looking around at the others. I looked over at my 18 year old son, with his white contact lens placed in his right eye (looking ever so 'freaky'), and noticed that his eyes were also wide open. I looked around and noticed that one of the more religious (Church of Christ..only ones going ta'heaven, ya know?!! ) office personnel, had his eyes half open, looking around at others. When he spotted me, with my eyes open, arms crossed, looking a bit irritated, he abruptly shut his eyes, and kept to his own business.

 

Never, as long as I've worked here, has anyone considered there may be non-believers amongst them. And if they give thought to it, they certainly could care less, seeing that they keep on praying 'in his name', during all our get-togethers.

 

As for blessing the food and being grateful for the 'one' who supplied the bounty, I just thought about how thankful I was for all the folk who labored over their home-made goodies, and that we could all partake. God/Jesus could get to the back of the line, as I didn't see a dish in his hands upon arriving. Ungrateful begger of worship!!!!

 

And I know what you mean by not having other people of your ilk. I too live in a religious saturated small town in Tennessee, where some like to believe we are the "buckle" on that bible belt.

 

Best to ya.

[Curtdude]

....We also had a thanksgiving lunch, and as is his custom, the vice president said a prayer. ....

 

Never, as long as I've worked here, has anyone considered there may be non-believers amongst them. And if they give thought to it, they certainly could care less, seeing that they keep on praying 'in his name', during all our get-togethers.

 

....And I know what you mean by not having other people of your ilk. I too live in a religious saturated small town in Tennessee, where some like to believe we are the "buckle" on that bible belt.

 

Best to ya.

 

Wow. Not that the ACLU is terribly popular in the rural South, but it sounds like both of you have potential hostile work environment cases. But who has the time and resources to pursue litigation? Even if it's done pro bono (for free), court cases take over your life and are really a burden for all concerned.

 

Also, even if you won, so what? A couple of crappy company higherups get their corporate butts slapped, everyone has to go to the most boring and patronizing "diversity" seminars, (sorry but you cannot teach the unwilling) and no one wins. If there is a monetary settlement, the lawyers at the ACLU would get a sizeable chunk (I would think 1/3) and you'd get enough to buy a used Ford Truck. The work environment could become even MORE hostile because now the True Believers think they are being persecuted by you immoral atheists in cahoots with the ACLU, blah blah blah. We've all seen this scenario played out before here in the States. It's not pretty.

 

I guess I'm sorta in a negative frame of mind right now. Religious people are really getting to me today.

[willybilly30]

I guess I'll just let them pray to their sky daddy.

If I fought this in courts and stuff I'd probally have all kinds of trouble.

Without more people to stand up it'd be me against them.

No one else in the line said anything, so it'd just be me.

I can't help but wonder how many people in that line would've sat with me if they had the option.

[Piprus]

Wow!

 

Congratulations and a tip of the cap, willy, for just being real.

It didn't seem to me like anything, just to say you aren't religious, no big deal...but being confronted with "pray or starve"?? Cheez, Alabama must be crazy...you didn't do anything wrong, you didn't even call their bluff or make a scene!!!

 

Coming from a "bluest of blue" state, I can't imagine what that must be like...

[CyborgX]

Being the only one protesting only increases ostrication. They would only come back at you later and say "See? Now if you ONLY did what WE did you wouldn't have missed out on such a GREAT meal and a GREAT time! YOU did this to YOURSELF." And you'd be the ONLY one in that position, as "everyone else" had the meal. And they'd make you feel stupid for not just "Doing that one little thing by praying. How hard is it just to stand there even if you don't believe, shut up and just let US have OUR RIGHTS??"

 

You get the idea. They get that way. And more than one person will do that too. Yeah, it would increase harassment.

 

The best way to "protest" is to do it descreatly. Like "Oh, man, I suddenly don't feel too well." and leave. Once the pity settles down and the "too bad you were ill", you then could say "I really don't want to talk about it. I'm still not 100% yet." and you'd be more likely to be left alone due to the fact that illness is a better excuse (at least to them) than unbelief. It will give less harassment in the end. Maybe even the boss saving a plate for you that you DON'T have to pray over.

 

There are ways around it. But I'm with others here that you SHOULD report this in to an employment rights group or authorities in employment law because what they did IS illegal. More companies are finding this out quickly by getting sued for things like this.

[willybilly30]

What all would happen if I reported them?

[mwc]

Ya know, I hate to say it but can no one see the irony here? Maybe it's because I've been reading the "good book" lately but were xians not told to refrain from the meat offered up to false gods? In a sense is the situation Willy describing the same thing? Pray to a false god or starve? It's just too much.

 

We shouldn't have to face the same crap they did 2000 years ago. It's already been done. We should be smarter than that and be able to figure out a better way to defeat the system. Or is it all going to play out the same? Will some of us be offered up publicly while the others "go along with the crowd?" Are we no better than that?

 

History shows that there's light at the end of the tunnel but at what cost? Look at the human cost at the early stages of the movement and on top of that the lies and carnage once the xians gained power. Is that what the future holds? Gah! I don't want to think about it (I think the holidays are starting to stress me out).

 

mwc

[willybilly30]

I'm not sure if this is what you meant but it got me wondering.

Why do they want me to pray with them?

Seems to me they'd not want me to because it'd offend their god that an unbeliever would pray.

I remember preachers saying the only prayer god finds acceptable from a non believer is the sinners prayer.

In other words if you are not asking to be saved or are saved already then God rejects the prayer.

So what's the damn point in me partaking in blessing the meal. Oh, it's an insult to god if someones eating during prayer right? well isn't it just as bad for me an unsaved person to pray?

By that stupidity tho I'd probally be banned from the food, and i'd ongly get to eat the strawberry cheese cake that wasn't on the stupid table, and brought out later. Oh well I like strawberry cheese cake. Why isn't strawberry cheese cake blessed? Is it sacred or something?

I also can't figure out why these people never give a shit too bless their meals or snacks at lunch and break everyday, but all of a sudden give a shit about blessing the thanksgiving meal.

[mwc]

I'm not sure if this is what you meant but it got me wondering.

Why do they want me to pray with them?

Seems to me they'd not want me to because it'd offend their god that an unbeliever would pray.

I remember preachers saying the only prayer god finds acceptable from a non believer is the sinners prayer.

In other words if you are not asking to be saved or are saved already then God rejects the prayer.

So what's the damn point in me partaking in blessing the meal. Oh, it's an insult to god if someones eating during prayer right? well isn't it just as bad for me an unsaved person to pray?

By that stupidity tho I'd probally be banned from the food, and i'd ongly get to eat the strawberry cheese cake that wasn't on the stupid table, and brought out later. Oh well I like strawberry cheese cake. Why isn't strawberry cheese cake blessed? Is it sacred or something?

I also can't figure out why these people never give a shit too bless their meals or snacks at lunch and break everyday, but all of a sudden give a shit about blessing the thanksgiving meal.

Actually, part of what I was ranting about was this:

Acts 15:29 To keep from things offered to false gods, and from blood, and from things put to death in ways which are against the law, and from the evil desires of the body; if you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. May you be happy.

Many early xians would take the from the offerings to "false gods" in their towns as sort of a form of welfare. It was the only way they could eat. This rule prevented them from doing so and so it was "pray or starve" but very literally for them. I guess when the tables were turned and the good xians of today made you the same offer it touched a nerve. You, fortunately, appear to be in a much better position than those poor folks of 2000 years ago but the parallels (the irony I mentioned) are there. You had to pray to their "false god" to partake of their offering to it (because once you prayed the meal was officially sanctified to that deity) or you could starve for your beliefs.

 

Sadly, I'll be doing the same with my family tomorrow. I will be eating "tainted" meat that is offered up to a false god. I should tell them to stuff it (I've threatened not to attend) but I know that I will go and I will eat the meal...prayer and all.

 

So like it or not jesus (or whoever puts the words in his mouth) is quite correct in that until we ditch our family and friends we can't change or make a difference (the intent being they needed to ditch their old lives entirely to follow him). I congratulate you Willy (and others) for at least speaking up as much as you do (and you get added points considering where you are located).

 

mwc

[Guest mousie]

My work has those same rules "pray or starve" at the Christmas parties. I just stopped going all together.

[Johnmilton]

I used to work at a hardcore southern baptist "ministry" mail order business and let me tell you, the shit was thick. We'd even have prayer circles once a week... circle jerks I thought of them as... and once the dick manager said a prayer for kenneth starr to bring down satanic slick willie.

 

Needless to say, I stayed away from all their "parties." Gah.

[willybilly30]

I wonder if they'd just let me get my check and go home. I may ask next year.

I don't really like being crowded in a little room with a bunch of people I don't know, and standing in line anyway.

I'd just assume go on home. Christmas isn't as bad I guess I get a free shit, or something then go home.

[Mr. XC]

The plant manager said you either pray with us or starve.

WWJD? Probably not that...

 

I used to live in part of the bible belt. The company that I worked for was a little smarter about the religious discrimination thing (they have their own legal department). But they still allowed bible study classes in the company conference rooms. They were optional though and not "officially" advertised. I guess there is nothing wrong about that. Anyway, I am now out of the bible belt and am very happy about it.

[willybilly30]

Someday I hope to be out of the bible belt.