Wertbag Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 While browsing random Bible quotes it occured to me that a human calling themselves God/The Lord would fit quite a few of the stories better than a magicial spirit. There are plenty of humans who have claimed divinity and been believed by entire nations (eg the pharoahs) and while it may not fit the entire book, really what does? For example the "made man in his image" would make sense in a physical way, and it sure as hell doesn't make sense in any other way. It would explain Gods human traits (rage, jealousy etc), explain why he shows a lack of knowledge (Hosea 8:4 The Israelites set up princes, and "I knew it not," complains God), would explain why His selected people were one nation and not the whole of humanity, would explain why stories mention seeing God or talking to God, would explain why since the bible stories there have been no miracles/sighting/communication/answered prayers and quotes like ""Because the Lord your God walks in the midst of your camp" really make you picture a human. We already know the Bible is a random collection of old myths, random writings and done by many authors. Of course some parts will be pointing to old spirit Gods, but others seem to have a very physical description to them. What do you think of this theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Wertbag (I feel strange calling you that), I'm not sure what kind of responses you're going to get to this topic. For what it's worth I'll try and throw in my two cents. It seems to me that God is often painted as a human writ large. In some sense that is the nature of anthropomorphism. How did the universe get here? Religious answer: a super-human being created it. So I think that in a sense you're right in that a god is often attributed with having human qualities (eg. emotion, reason, etc). I hope that I made sense in all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wertbag Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Wertbag (I feel strange calling you that) Oh? Why is that? The use of unusual alias's on the internet is so common that it fails to surprise me anymore. god is often attributed with having human qualities (eg. emotion, reason, etc). True, but what I'm wondering is whether it could actually be a step further and actually be a physical person in some of the stories. If the early Christians were stealing stories from other cultures and myths, they may well have stolen stories of humans who claimed to be God (seemed quite common amongst emporers and kings to claim divinity). There seem to be alot of stories where this would make alot more sense (eg people running away or hiding from God doesn't make sense if hes everywhere). Also fits well with the bizarre fragmented book that is the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Well, anything is possible but there's no evidence that the Israelite's ever had any form of emperor worship in their history. Some of the cultures that they "borrowed" from did deify their leaders but the stories you speak of read more of an anthropomorphic deity (and one that isn't omni-everything as it is today) than of a human leader that has been deified. Also, and I know this is probably just a slip-up on your part, but the xians aren't responsible for the things you speak of. The most likely culprit would be the priests in captivity in Babylon (or shortly afterward) around 600BCE. This is where they would have had access to all these stories to integrate into their own religion and the time to make the changes. There were likely more changes later on (maybe around 200BCE if I had to guess). I'm becoming more and more of a mind that YHWH is the combination of at least two local deities when the two groups merged. Yah being the more powerful of the two and Weh being the lesser remnant (these may not be their full names). Once merged they usurped the roles of other local deities as they took over those territories (Baal being the most obvious to go) and eventually he was the only one left. The problem with my theory is I cannot locate a suitable lesser half to merge into Yah. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderer Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 The most powerful gods, historically, are the invisible ones. It is too difficult to imbue a god with omnicience and omnipresence, and also have him farting and scratching his butt when he wakes up in the morning. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currentchristian Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 While browsing random Bible quotes it occured to me that a human calling themselves God/The Lord would fit quite a few of the stories better than a magicial spirit. There are plenty of humans who have claimed divinity and been believed by entire nations (eg the pharoahs) and while it may not fit the entire book, really what does? For example the "made man in his image" would make sense in a physical way, and it sure as hell doesn't make sense in any other way. It would explain Gods human traits (rage, jealousy etc), explain why he shows a lack of knowledge (Hosea 8:4 The Israelites set up princes, and "I knew it not," complains God), would explain why His selected people were one nation and not the whole of humanity, would explain why stories mention seeing God or talking to God, would explain why since the bible stories there have been no miracles/sighting/communication/answered prayers and quotes like ""Because the Lord your God walks in the midst of your camp" really make you picture a human. We already know the Bible is a random collection of old myths, random writings and done by many authors. Of course some parts will be pointing to old spirit Gods, but others seem to have a very physical description to them. What do you think of this theory? The view of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) is that "as man is, God once was and as God is, man may become." Here are some quotes from Mormon texts: "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!....It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God....yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible...." (from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith and History of the Church, 6:302-17) "He [God] is our Father--the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being. It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being;" (Brigham Young in the Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 333) "The Gods who dwell in the Heaven...have been redeemed from the grave in a world which existed before the foundations of this earth were laid. They and the Heavenly body which they now inhabit were once in a fallen state....they were exalted also, from fallen men to Celestial Gods to inhabit their Heaven forever and ever." (Apostle Orson Pratt in The Seer, page 23) -CC in MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Yet no evidence exists to indicate that Yahooweh was anything more than one tribal god amongst many tribal gods the ancient Jews borrowed from when they were developing their mythology. Could Biblegodzilla ever have been a human? Until I see some real proof, then I say "no." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currentchristian Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Yet no evidence exists to indicate that Yahooweh was anything more than one tribal god amongst many tribal gods the ancient Jews borrowed from when they were developing their mythology. Could Biblegodzilla ever have been a human? Until I see some real proof, then I say "no." I say no, too. Just letting the Mormons have a word! -CC in MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Hmm. Interesting question... I suppose that it's possible that various episodes in the life and times of YaHooWaHoo could be based on, say, some kind of legendary hero-worship from back in the day. Kind of like the exploits of King Arthur, who was probably based on a real guy, but the mythology took off without him (and details about the real guy are obscure and really hard to pin down). What I think is more likely is that he isn't based on any individual human being, but is based on human beings as a collective. In other words, the gods are projections of our own egos. Gods and religions vary in the details, depending on culture or individual ego, but ultimately I don't think we're made in any deity's image: they're made in ours. (Note how often someone is really describing themselves when they describe god.) So yes, god is human, but not based on any individual human(s). That's what I think, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 The view of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) is that "as man is, God once was and as God is, man may become." Here are some quotes from Mormon texts: "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!....It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God....yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible...." (from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith and History of the Church, 6:302-17) "He [God] is our Father--the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being. It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being;" (Brigham Young in the Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 333) "The Gods who dwell in the Heaven...have been redeemed from the grave in a world which existed before the foundations of this earth were laid. They and the Heavenly body which they now inhabit were once in a fallen state....they were exalted also, from fallen men to Celestial Gods to inhabit their Heaven forever and ever." (Apostle Orson Pratt in The Seer, page 23) Yep. In Mormon theology, we are the inhabitants of a planet that God gained control of after becoming God. I don't know whether they think God created the Earth or not, but that's really not important - what is important is that Mormons, upon dying and reaching salvation, will also be granted a planet to rule over as God. Unless the Mormon is a woman, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aginghipster Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Actually the Mormon thing sounds pretty good. Maybe I should become Mormon. I just dont want to wear the same underwear forever. Th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currentchristian Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Yet no evidence exists to indicate that Yahooweh was anything more than one tribal god amongst many tribal gods the ancient Jews borrowed from when they were developing their mythology. Could Biblegodzilla ever have been a human? Until I see some real proof, then I say "no." Some might say it's taking the Lord's name in vain, but I don't say that. Yahooweh is very funny. So is another one I saw on here somewhere: YooHooWooHoo. And someone wrote in answer to the Gods? question: No-weh. Very clever. I mean that as a compliment. -CC in MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverclear5 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I think we definitely create god in our own image. I love the quote "you can be pretty sure you've created god in your own image when you find he hates all the same people you do." Black civilisations created black gods, whites mad white gods, indians indian, etc. etc. Sometimes they took charicturistics from local animals etc. but they were always based around human beings. My favorite representation is the God on southpark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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