OK, so what DO you guys do??

[Lilith]

I'm not sure how to even deal with this. Neither of us have been to church for quite some time. I deconverted and that was hard. On both of us. He seems to have accepted it as best he's able to. He's made the claim before, "We're going to church this Sunday" (in front of the kids), but then not followed through.

 

He told me just last night that he found a church he wants to try. I'm not sure if he means this Sunday or eventually. He has also asked me in the past if I would go to church with him. I told him I didn't think I could, that it just wouldn't be the same.

 

So....spouses....how do you handle them? Keep in mind that we were Word of Faithers for over 20 years. Extremely fundamental in beliefs.

 

He didn't outright ask me to go. Do I stay home? Do I put on a happy face for the kids? (They still don't know I've deconverted). They range in age from 8 to 13. Any advice is appreciated.

[LloydDobler]

Well, now that I'm deconverted AND divorced...

 

I know that faking it (in any arena) during marriage only adds to problems later. You are not one person. You may be one flesh and all that yada yada yada. But you are two people.

 

The REALITY is that you're not a christian, and he is (or thinks he is). It's reality. It's not going to hurt anyone unless they make it hurt themselves. The kids can handle it.

 

It's kind of an abstract thought, but one thing I learned in my divorce is that marriage often makes people think that everything they do affects their spouse, and everythign their spouse does affects them. So you not only give yourself over to that person and bend yourself around them, but you force them into a box of your own making as well.

 

What ends up happening in that situation is that nobody's happy. So pretending to go to church for him won't make you happy, and knowing that you're not a believer, it wont' make him happy either. So why do it? Why lie to the kids to perpetuate another lie?

 

I dunno, mostly random musings but I think about this stuff a lot. I'm not going to bend or pretend on anything when it comes to religion and my daughter, even though her mom and all grandparents and aunts and uncles are all Jesus people.

 

I should stipulate that for NOW I do compromise because I don't want to confuse my daughter too much, but when she's a little older and able to comprehend this stuff a little better, I'm not going to hold back. What I believe is what I believe and it's a part of me. As a christian I didn't hide my belief, and I'm not going to change that now.

[pitchu]

It's so tough, Appellation.

 

Imo, most important is that you and Hubby be unified in how you're going to handle the issue as it regards the children. Probably a good way to go, if you can both agree, is to tell the kids that religion is something that millions of people have struggled with, and it's normal to do so. That the two of you are now struggling. That the two of you are, to the best of your ability, going to keep from confusing them (the kids) by keeping your thoughts, comments and discussions to yourselves (the parents).

 

In my experience, kids aren't really interested in the blow-by-blow of such abstract issues between their parents; they just want to know that they're safe while their parents do the grown-up work.

 

If you can have a firm agreement as regards the children, it's a better foundation for working things out between the two of you.

 

Good luck.

[Lilith]

Thank you Lloyd...I appreciate all of your good advice. I would like to pick your brain a little more on this issue though:

 

I should stipulate that for NOW I do compromise because I don't want to confuse my daughter too much, but when she's a little older and able to comprehend this stuff a little better, I'm not going to hold back.  What I believe is what I believe and it's a part of me.  As a christian I didn't hide my belief, and I'm not going to change that now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In what ways do you compromise? How old is your daughter? What age do you feel she will be ready to handle it?

[Lilith]

It's so tough, Appellation.

 

Imo, most important is that you and Hubby be unified in how you're going to handle the issue as it regards the children.  Probably a good way to go, if you can both agree, is to tell the kids that religion is something that millions of people have struggled with, and it's normal to do so.  That the two of you are now struggling.  That the two of you are, to the best of your ability, going to keep from confusing them (the kids) by keeping your thoughts, comments and discussions to yourselves (the parents).

 

We both agree we should be unified, which is part of the reason he wants me to go to church. I'm sure the rest of it is that he hopes I will re-convert.

 

In my experience, kids aren't really interested in the blow-by-blow of such abstract issues between their parents; they just want to know that they're safe while their parents do the grown-up work.

I love this. Very good advice.....

 

If you can have a firm agreement as regards the children, it's a better foundation for working things out between the two of you.

 

Good luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, that's just it. It's the coming to the agreement part we struggle with. It's difficult for us to even carry on a basic conversation regarding what I've been through. He has not been able to face it to the point where he is willing to take the time to sit down and figure out why I've deconverted. And he's told me he flat doesn't want to know.

[LloydDobler]

She turns 3 at the end of this month. The ways I compromise are:

 

I sing Amazing Grace to her at bedtime if she asks me to. If she asks me to sing 'Jesus loves me' or any other religious song I tell her I don't like that song, or I don't want to sing that one, and she just moves on to another.

 

I pray over a meal if she asks me to, but I don't say god or jesus, I just say a generic 'Thank you for this food', etc. She only asks me to if her mom is there, our routine is such that she doesn't think of it otherwise.

 

Oh, and I read veggie tales books to her, and don't skip the parts that talk about god. Even though it makes me cringe.

 

Other than that, religion isn't a part of our daddy-daughter life. And I have her 3 days a week. I have passed all the heavily religious kid's books to her mom, or chucked them.

 

When she starts asking me questions about god or telling me bible stories she learned, is probably when I'm going to start letting her know that some people don't believe that stuff, including me. There was a time that I would have pretended to agree with church until she was into her teens, but not anymore.

[Lilith]

Sometimes I think it would be much easier if we were divorced. We came seriously close this past year. If dh can learn to fully accept me and work around/with these issues we have (regarding religion) then we'll be fine.

 

She turns 3 at the end of this month.  The ways I compromise are:

 

I sing Amazing Grace to her at bedtime if she asks me to.  If she asks me to sing 'Jesus loves me' or any other religious song I tell her I don't like that song, or I don't want to sing that one, and she just moves on to another.

 

I pray over a meal if she asks me to, but I don't say god or jesus, I just say a generic 'Thank you for this food', etc.  She only asks me to if her mom is there, our routine is such that she doesn't think of it otherwise.

 

Oh, and I read veggie tales books to her, and don't skip the parts that talk about god.  Even though it makes me cringe.

 

Other than that, religion isn't a part of our daddy-daughter life.  And I have her 3 days a week.  I have passed all the heavily religious kid's books to her mom, or chucked them.

 

When she starts asking me questions about god or telling me bible stories she learned, is probably when I'm going to start letting her know that some people don't believe that stuff, including me.  There was a time that I would have pretended to agree with church until she was into her teens, but not anymore.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[pandora]

I dread the day my husband decides that he is still a believer and wants to go back to church. He went through several months ago where he went to Quaker meetings, Methodist churches that are liberal around here, and UU mtgs because he desperately wanted to believe. I discovered that he missed the community more than he actually bought into everything. Plus that whole fear of hell thing... I don't know your situation, but consider that.

 

I feel for you, and I hope you can work it out. I am sure you will. It would be hard for me if my husband ended up back "Christian." I don't know if I could take it. I have told him this... How can you be married to someone that thinks you are going to hell? I am normally very laid back, but that particular thought really gets to me and hurts me coming from my husband.

[LloydDobler]

Sometimes I think it would be much easier if we were divorced.  We came seriously close this past year.  If dh can learn to fully accept me and work around/with these issues we have (regarding religion) then we'll be fine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some things are easier, some things are a lot harder. If you can make it work, lay it out like that and try it.

 

The rudest awakening about divorce that I've had is that there's a lot of stuff you like about your spouse, and a lot of stuff you don't. You either deal with what you don't to get what you do, or you give up what you do to get rid of what you don't.

 

Getting to the point where you are willing to give up what you like because you hate so much, really sucks. And giving up the things you like about them is the hardest part.

 

Just remember that to be fully accepted, you need to not be pretending to be what he wants. That goes back to the going to church issue. You won't feel accepted if you're not being yourself.

[pandora]

Some things are easier, some things are a lot harder.  If you can make it work, lay it out like that and try it. 

 

The rudest awakening about divorce that I've had is that there's a lot of stuff you like about your spouse, and a lot of stuff you don't.  You either deal with what you don't to get what you do, or you give up what you do to get rid of what you don't.

 

Getting to the point where you are willing to give up what you like because you hate so much, really sucks.  And giving up the things you like about them is the hardest part. 

 

Just remember that to be fully accepted, you need to not be pretending to be what he wants.  That goes back to the going to church issue.  You won't feel accepted if you're not being yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'

 

LOL Maybe that is the spirit of the law of being unequally yoked.

[Lilith]

I dread the day my husband decides that he is still a believer and wants to go back to church.  He went through several months ago where he went to Quaker meetings, Methodist churches that are liberal around here, and UU mtgs because he desperately wanted to believe.  I discovered that he missed the community more than he actually bought into everything. Plus that whole fear of hell thing... I don't know your situation, but consider that.

 

I feel for you, and I hope you can work it out.  I am sure you will.  It would be hard for me if my husband ended up back "Christian."  I don't know if I could take it.  I have told him this... How can you be married to someone that thinks you are going to hell?  I am normally very laid back, but that particular thought really gets to me and hurts me coming from my husband.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My husband doesn't believe I'm going to hell. He believes I am "saved through the believing spouse," plus "once saved, always saved" in the WoF movement has a totally different meaning than most of Christianity believes (so I've discovered since deconverting). He has been (though not showing it so much lately) terribly distraught over the fact that we "no longer see eye to eye" and he "doesn't know what I believe anymore." I think he is also very concerned over my influence on the kids, and that I will lead them away from Christianity.

[pandora]

My husband doesn't believe I'm going to hell.  He believes I am "saved through the believing spouse," plus "once saved, always saved" in the WoF movement has a totally different meaning than most of Christianity believes (so I've discovered since deconverting).  He has been (though not showing it so much lately) terribly distraught over the fact that we "no longer see eye to eye" and he "doesn't know what I believe anymore."  I think he is also very concerned over my influence on the kids, and that I will lead them away from Christianity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hmm... well, that is good in a way... my husband tends to want to be a very black and white person, too. He doesn't understand people's searching and being ok with not knowing a lot of things. He also desires my companionship in especially spirituality, even if we don't completely agree. I think it would be hard on him if we disagree more than we do now. Of course, I desire the same so it would be hard on me too.

[pandora]

Oh, what is the Word of Faith movement? I just want your opinions (do you have a testimony?) as I can do a google search here in a moment.

[pandora]

eesh... TBN! *shudders* Is that the only kind out there? Maybe you should point him to the Trinity Foundation and expose him to the investigations that have been done in those churches/groups,preachers (Benny Hinn)/networks...

[Lilith]

*laughs at pandora's reaction

 

 

Word of Faith is TBN and much, much more. Kenneth Copeland & Kenneth Hagan are probably the "best" teachers out there, for this particular movement. Truthfully, they do have some good things to teach....lots of positive affirmation stuff/positive thinking. Of course, it could use some good balance. It is NOT snake-handling/refusing medical attention/etc type faith.

[pandora]

http://www.gospeloutreach.net/wfquotes.html

 

Um... have a look at some of their beliefs! Veeery interesting...

[pandora]

*laughs at pandora's reaction

Word of Faith is TBN and much, much more.  Kenneth Copeland & Kenneth Hagan are probably the "best" teachers out there, for this particular movement.  Truthfully, they do have some good things to teach....lots of positive affirmation stuff/positive thinking.  Of course, it could use some good balance.  It is NOT snake-handling/refusing medical attention/etc type faith.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Right, I understand that, since Paul Crouch doesn't do that. JK

 

I am more fascinated how different it is from the rest of Christianity... I am tempted to study this more and do a paper on it in a religion course of mine next semester. Are those belief lines on that website similar to what you believed and what your husband believes?

[Lilith]

The rudest awakening about divorce that I've had is that there's a lot of stuff you like about your spouse, and a lot of stuff you don't.  You either deal with what you don't to get what you do, or you give up what you do to get rid of what you don't.

 

Getting to the point where you are willing to give up what you like because you hate so much, really sucks.  And giving up the things you like about them is the hardest part. 

 

Just remember that to be fully accepted, you need to not be pretending to be what he wants.  That goes back to the going to church issue.  You won't feel accepted if you're not being yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have a lot of wisdom. So how come I still don't know how to handle this situation? :sigh: I do appreciate your feedback. Thank you. If you think of any other little tidbits, feel free to jump in with them.

[Lilith]

Right, I understand that, since Paul Crouch doesn't do that.    JK

 

I am more fascinated how different it is from the rest of Christianity... I am tempted to study this more and do a paper on it in a religion course of mine next semester.  Are those belief lines on that website similar to what you believed and what your husband believes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Errm....I'm glancing this site over. I am willing to bet that most of that is taken out of context. God has no size and weight, for instance. If I were to take each one line by line, I think I'd have to open a new thread for it, which I'm more than happy to do. It will take a little time though.

[Dio]

Appellation, Lloyd, pitchu, * and pandora * - as usual, some excellent discussions.

 

I'm recently divorced, have 3 kids, left the faith about a year ago. At first the ex and I briefly were in a really off-the-charts cult-like church, but as our marriage progressed we attended more mainstream, mild-mannered denominational churches - still fairly fundamentalist, but not nearly so crazy.

 

Anyway, to make a long story short, my ex found a Word-Faith church (in Texas) and just went head-over-heels for it. I reluctantly went along, but all the while hated every minute of it. I would go on and off, sometimes I just couldn't bring myself to attend, other times I'd do it for the kids. There was constant friction over this issue. There were other compatibility issues as well that were there from the start, but the church issue contributed greatly to our troubles. Some of the worst issues regard the giving of money to the church. I felt that they were frauds, along the lines of the TBN-charlatans. She thought I was disobeying by not giving all this money and making extra missions and building contributions.

 

Anyway, I can relate to your situation. My ex refused to compromise even one bit. One time I begged her to go with me to another church and she did, but once we got there she said she was sick and didn't feel like going in. She went in, but after the service, she didn't want to stay and meet anyone. So I figured "what's the use?". Anyway, as my marriage was breaking up, I tried to get some help from the people at church who for four years, I had given of my time, attention, and money, and they were totally worthless.

 

I guess I don't have any advice or any point to make other than try to compromise, but make sure he does as well. Also, I know how difficult it is to deconvert, so like Lloyd described concerning his daughter, I am going to be very delicate with my own children. I don't need to traumatize them with my newfound atheism. I grew up in a nominal catholic family, where religion was no big deal, mostly just a cultural thing or a group you belong to. So that's how it is for my kids at my home. I don't bring it up either way, and if they do, I just admit I don't know anything for sure, but I respect other people's beliefs.

[white_raven23]

  I think he is also very concerned over my influence on the kids, and that I will lead them away from Christianity.

 

Whatever you decide, whether the kids stay home with you, or the family goes to church without you.....because of the situation, you cannot afford to have Sunday as your lazy day. Don't still be in your fuzzy slippers and robe when they all, or just your husband comes home.

 

And if your husband goes to church and leaves the kids with you? Get out. Go to the park, go to the zoo, take an interest in what your kid's life is like, their friends and everything.

 

Whatever you do, don't be doing nothing. The kids will be jealous that you get to sleep in late, and the lazy sweatpants reinforce the image they get at church of "lazy good-for-nothings who don't come to church like they should".

 

Even better if you can sleep in a litle bit, and then be doing something the kids find to be fun when everyone gets home. And don't stop there. Make the rest of Sunday after church fun for everyone.

[pandora]

Yes, please do another thread. That would be nice, thanks!

 

You only have to include the basics and the things you feel were taught to be most essential to your brand of Christianity.

[Lilith]

Thank you so much Dio, for your input. If nothing else, everyone sharing makes me feel like I'm not the only one treading down this dark and lonely path.

 

I don't bring it up either way, and if they do, I just admit I don't know anything for sure, but I respect other people's beliefs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

To admit such a thing would be heresy at its finest, in my husband's eyes.

[Lilith]

Whatever you decide, whether the kids stay home with you, or the family goes to church without you.....because of the situation, you cannot afford to have Sunday as your lazy day. Don't still be in your fuzzy slippers and robe when they all, or just your husband comes home.

 

And if your husband goes to church and leaves the kids with you? Get out. Go to the park, go to the zoo, take an interest in what your kid's life is like, their friends and everything.

 

Whatever you do, don't be doing nothing. The kids will be jealous that you get to sleep in late, and the lazy sweatpants reinforce the image they get at church of "lazy good-for-nothings who don't come to church like they should".

 

Even better if you can sleep in a litle bit, and then be doing something the kids find to be fun when everyone gets home. And don't stop there. Make the rest of Sunday after church fun for everyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like it. I'll do it (if it comes to that). Good point about reinforcing images and all.

[LloydDobler]

You have a lot of wisdom.  So how come I still don't know how to handle this situation? :sigh:  I do appreciate your feedback.  Thank you.  If you think of any other little tidbits, feel free to jump in with them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wisdom frequently comes from fuckin up a lot. So don't feel so bad. Take it slow, and be true to yourself.