OK, so what DO you guys do??

[Lilith]

Wisdom frequently comes from fuckin up a lot.  So don't feel so bad.  Take it slow, and be true to yourself.

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Ha ha...very true.

[Lilith]

Here's the cure.  Tell him you will go, but since it was his idea, he has to be the one to get the kids up, make sure they dress in appropriate outfits, and cook their breakfast.  That usually cures my husband really face.  Of course, my kids are 2, 4 and 8- the 8 year old is autistic, so menally she is 4 also.  So, getting our 3 ready to go is a huge undertaking.  LOL!  Usually, my husband is lazy on Sundays, and without me being super-fundy-motivator, he doesn't have the will power.  All I have to do is find a way to stall him a bit and then "oops, it's too late to go this sunday."  LOL!

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Not sure what will happen in the future, but yesterday we went shopping....at his suggestion.

[been borg again]

whenever my christian wife starts to get depressed about my apostacy.

 

I sit down with her and we have a long discussion about my personal motives and desires. I remind her, that If GOd is real, He understands my heart fully, that my greatest desire is to know what Truth is, no matter how uncomfortable it makes me feel, I want to know what is true and what is not.

I want to know what is Right and what is not

I tell her this is the reason I deconverted, which was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.

 

I tell her the highest standard for me in determining a truth, is objective empirical evidence, to settle for a lesser standard, I feel its spiritualy and intellectually dishonest.

 

 

This always works for us, because I am sincere in my motives, once she realizes this, then she calms down and we are on the same page again,

 

because I also know she beleives what she beleives because she too has a desire to know the Truth, no one wants to beleive a lie,

except Bush and his WMD's

 

So my wife will calm down and everything will be fine for another couple of years, until she forgets again, starts to stress out, and we then have the exact same conversation again.

[Lilith]

whenever my  christian wife starts to get depressed about my apostacy.

 

I sit down with her and we have a long discussion about my personal motives and desires. I remind her, that If GOd is real, He understands my heart fully, that my greatest desire is to know what Truth is, no matter how uncomfortable it makes me feel, I want to know what is true and what is not.

I want to know what is Right and what is not

I tell her  this is the reason I deconverted, which was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.

 

I tell her the highest standard for me in determining a truth, is objective empirical evidence, to settle for a lesser standard, I feel its  spiritualy and intellectually dishonest.

This always works for us, because I am sincere in my motives,  once she realizes this, then she calms down and we are on the same page again,

 

because I also know she beleives what she beleives because she too has a desire to know the Truth, no one wants to beleive a lie,

except Bush and his WMD's

 

So my wife will calm down and everything will be fine for another couple of years, until she forgets again, starts to stress out, and we then have the exact same conversation again.

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How long have you been an ex-xian? We cycle through this every couple of months. Does the time period lengthen? (I imagine it would...)

[been borg again]

Hi Liberty chiick applation,

I would definately say things calm down as time goes on.

I started deconverting a few years into my 10 year marraige and fully deconverted about 3-4 years ago, so it wasnt a sudden thing. although my wife thinks I am really strange and kind of rolls her eyes anytime I mention apologetic type topics.

She even defends me when I am not around and other christians try to give her the " Oh poor you, you must be so unhappy unequaly yoked."

 

But you know there is another issue, I dont know if you and your hubby deal with, and I think its been the most important issue in learning to get along,

and that is I have to validate my wifes feelings and beliefs for the sake of her ego, otherwise she feels I am talking down to her. Or that I come across as thinking she is not very intelligent, then she becomes defensive and feels the need to disagree with me on everything, just to disagree. when I validate her feelings and beliefs, then she is alot less defensive and more open.

 

so alot of the time I keep my mouth shut because my wife never reads or educates herself, the only books she has ever read is Harry Potter,Narnia books, and fluffy magazines like Cosmo.

 

and she thinks science, history, religion etc. is kind of boring,stupid, pointless, and dull.

( yea, its agrivating but she has alot of strengths in the areas I am weak).

It used to bother me for the first few years, but now I am in the comfortable position where I dont feel the need to correct or argue if she makes a standard fundy statement like,

Evolution= atheism= hopelessness= no morals = suicide

or whatever.

I just kind of keep it to myself, see the humour in it, and learn to focus on the positive aspects of her personality, like her tolerance, kindness, and her compassion.

 

Although the other day I rented " What the bleep do we know" even though its new age mumbo jumbo, It got her interested in Quantum Theory for a few days,

I think if I can continue to find media that combines feel good spirituality with science, then I can keep her interested in topics that I find personaly valueable.

 

 

 

do you find your self in the same situation?

[Lilith]

do you find your self in the same situation?

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Yes and no. He's not had a chance to defend me to friends or family yet, as no one knows. He claims he will, however, and I believe him.

 

I know what you mean about validating beliefs. I have told him, many times, that I don't discredit his beliefs and don't even necessarily think he's wrong. He has a really hard time wrapping his brain around this one (for good reason) as, if he's "right" then I must be "wrong" and if I think I'm "right" how can I not think he's "wrong?"

 

Did that even make any sense?

 

When he has his meltdowns, I gently and in a round-about way remind him to focus on what he loves about me, and not focus on the negative. Have you ever seen "Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind?" We watched that movie at the most critical point in our marriage. It was headed for certain divorce. After seeing it, and it's beautiful way of portraying love at the deepest level, well.....I still say that movie saved our marriage. This is basically what I'm reminding him of (which I've only had to do a couple of times in the past year). Yea, I can see how things are getting better. I do wish I could free him of the mentality I feel he's "trapped" in, but I do have be be very careful and keep my mouth shut. He has told me more than once that he feels like I talk down to him a lot (not so much recently). I think we are figuring it out. I hope we are anyway....

 

I've had a couple of really good exchanges with him though. Once, I saw a debate on tithing and how it was not biblical. I did a little of my own research and found myself saying, "Well, I'll be damned." He wanted to know what was up and I told him what I'd discovered. His response was an impressive, "Huh." I could tell it sunk in and I feel some progress was made. If I can show him things biblically, he's open to receiving them. This is a major step up from where he originally didn't trust me at all after the deconversion.

[Lilith]

The other thing I wanted to add Been-buddy (and this is just an observation) is that our two relationships are dynamically different. In your case, you have a wife that is commanded to be "submissive" so is by the very nature of being the woman, probably more "accepting" of your life-view. I am an apostate times two.

[been borg again]

The other thing I wanted to add Been-buddy (and this is just an observation) is that our two relationships are dynamically different.  In your case, you have a wife that is commanded to be "submissive" so is by the very nature of being the woman, probably more "accepting" of your life-view.  I am an apostate times two.

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oh yea I didnt realize that.

I understand alot more now

Im sorry it must be kind of depressing,

because you also have the mans ego and pride, and the male dominated social construction to deal with too.

Is your hubby fundie or more liberal?

Do you feel trapped? or does he give you independence?

[Lilith]

oh yea I didnt realize that.

I understand alot more now

Im sorry it must be kind of depressing,

because you also have the mans ego and pride, and the  male dominated social construction to deal with too.

  Is your hubby fundie or more liberal?

Do you feel trapped? or does he give you independence?

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He is fundy, but he hasn't been to church in a long time. It's probably been....3 years? He feels responsible for my "fall" and that he didn't hold up his end of the bargain as the spiritual head of the house.

 

Sometimes I feel trapped, yes. But I think if I'm patient, I can be more and more free with my views/theologies. I hope so anyway....

[Amanda]

He told me just last night that he found a church he wants to try.  I'm not sure if he means this Sunday or eventually.  He has also asked me in the past if I would go to church with him.  I told him I didn't think I could, that it just wouldn't be the same.

 

So....spouses....how do you handle them?  Keep in mind that we were Word of Faithers for over 20 years.  Extremely fundamental in beliefs. 

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When you go to church, do you gain anything positive that makes your life better? If not, why go? If so, then why not go somewhere that enriches who you are? No one agrees with EVERYTHING anyone says, yet if you can leave the place a better person it might be worth a visit or two.

 

So you have doubts about what these traditional churches are teaching? Good! I think everyone believes in a higher power at a uniquely personal level, yet could it be that having unquestioned, blind faith really no faith at all? Does it hurt your children to show them that it is okay to doubt what someone says, even the minister? Is it okay to let your children know that sometimes you and your husband disagree and that is ok... and even if you disagree, you can still love and be with each other? I think those are wonderful lessons to be modeling for your children.

 

Have you ever thought you may be on the path to know more about "God" than your wonderful husband? You sound like a great person. Work things out, it sounds like you two have something very special and have come a long way and have a lot more than I think either of you realize. You don't need luck, you have skills to make things turn out successfully!

[Lilith]

When you go to church, do you gain anything positive that makes your life better?

Not really

 

If not, why go?

Well, I thought I'd made it fairly clear I don't really intend to go. I just am curious how other ex-xians handle still-believing spouses in this area. I am fumbling around here, as I've never been married to an "opposite thinker" in the theology area before. It's all new to me.

 

If so, then why not go somewhere that enriches who you are?

Do you mean another church or gathering? I can guarantee you that doing so would create more problems than if I just stayed home.

 

No one agrees with EVERYTHING anyone says, yet if you can leave the place a better person it might be worth a visit or two.

I have no plans on going back to church. You don't seem to understand the dogma of the ultra-fundy-Word-of-Faith-charismatic Christians.

 

So you have doubts about what these traditional churches are teaching? Good!

I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but slow down cowgirl. First, we never went to a "traditional" church as a married couple. As far as doubts about what they teach....you have no idea.

 

I think everyone believes in a higher power at a uniquely personal level,

Not everyone believes in a higher power.....

 

yet could it be that having unquestioned, blind faith really no faith at all?

Of course...you have no argument from me on this one. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make though.

 

Does it hurt your children to show them that it is okay to doubt what someone says, even the minister? Is it okay to let your children know that sometimes you and your husband disagree and that is ok... and even if you disagree, you can still love and be with each other? I think those are wonderful lessons to be modeling for your children.

I tend to agree with you here that it is a good lesson for the kids. However, my husband tends to get very upset when we have "intense discussions" that are debate-like, in front of the kids. It's still all too new for him (my apostacy) and honestly, we are both feeling our way through this.

 

Have you ever thought you may be on the path to know more about "God" than your wonderful husband?

Many times...

 

You sound like a great person.

Thank you. You sound like a very kind and sincere person.

 

Work things out, it sounds like you two have something very special and have come a long way and have a lot more than I think either of you realize.

Of course we are working things out. I never intended to suggest otherwise.

 

You don't need luck, you have skills to make things turn out successfully!

Did I ask for good luck wishes?

*appellation checks over thread again to make sure.....

 

But thank you for your comments. While I feel a little like I've just been lectured, I also feel you were doing so with only good intent. For that, I thank you.

[been borg again]

so what do you see in the future? divorce? you think your hubby will ever at the least become more liberal in his world view and faith?

Whats he like with the kids? Is he paranoid and over controling?

[been borg again]

I think the best way to introduce your hubby to the wonderful world of Doubt, is too focus on biblical canon history and non canon bible books, If he is your typical fundy, then he does not recognize the authority of the Catholic church. As we all know it was the catholic authorites that cannonized the bible.

 

 

As we both know I am sure, the moment the word Atheist pops up in the conversation the christian is going to get defensive and irrational.

 

I think if you avoided the A word and personal philosphies, and just focused on the physical evidence of the interesting world of biblical canon and doctrinal develpment, then I think he would understand more your doubt.

 

Even the topic of biblical contradictions can be avoided too.

THier is buttloads of enough information concerning early bible development that would be enough to make anyone realize the topic of Inspired WOrd of GOd

leaves too many unaswered questions to apraoch it from a strictly black/white perspective.

[Lilith]

so what do you see in the future? divorce? you think your hubby will ever at the least become more liberal in his world view and faith?

Whats he like with the kids? Is he paranoid and over controling?

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I don't think it will come to divorce. I think we've overcome that threat. I'm not sure if he will ever become "more liberal" in his faith. I think if he ever took the time to really see why I deconverted, he would too. As you well know, fundy faith is all or nothing.

 

He is excellent with the kids. He is neither paranoid nor over-controlling.

 

I think the best way to introduce your hubby to the wonderful world of Doubt, is too focus on biblical canon history and non canon bible books, If he is your typical fundy, then he does not recognize the authority of the Catholic church. As we all know it was the catholic authorites that cannonized the bible.

 

 

As we both know I am sure, the moment the word Atheist pops up in the conversation the christian is going to get defensive and irrational.

 

I think if you avoided the A word and personal philosphies, and just focused on the physical evidence of the interesting world of biblical canon and doctrinal develpment, then I think he would understand more your doubt.

 

Even the topic of biblical contradictions can be avoided too.

THier is buttloads of enough information concerning early bible development that would be enough to make anyone realize the topic of Inspired WOrd of GOd

leaves too many unaswered questions to apraoch it from a strictly black/white perspective.

You are absolutely right. The problem is he refuses (to date) to sit down and see why I've gone through this process. Perhaps he will someday, but I think (think) we've reached a point that is kind of a mutual stand-off.

[been borg again]

if there was some way you could introduce him to topics like non canon bible books and its history, without seeming like the goal is to produce Doubt. If there was some way to get him interested in the topics just because they are interesting in itself.

 

maybe if the guy finds science interesting, he would be interested in knowing that some NASA guys just invented a technique to read a huge pile of burned-carbonized papyrus ( 100,000+ books prevoiusly unreadable) next to Pompeii I beleive, that dates back to around Jesuses time. If I rememeber right they have aready found pieces of the oldest gospel manuscript yet, and another Revelation book to validate the 616 number of the beast.

 

But maybe we are a rare breed of people, that we find this stuff so incredibly facinating.

[Lilith]

if there was some way you could introduce him to topics like non canon bible books and its history, without seeming like the goal is to produce Doubt.  If there was some way to get him interested in the topics just because they are interesting in itself.

 

maybe if the guy finds science interesting, he would be interested in knowing that some NASA guys just invented a technique to read a huge pile of burned-carbonized papyrus ( 100,000+ books prevoiusly unreadable) next to Pompeii I beleive, that dates back to around Jesuses time. If I rememeber right they have aready found pieces of the oldest gospel manuscript yet, and another Revelation book to validate the 616 number of the beast.

 

But maybe we are a rare breed of people, that we find this stuff so incredibly facinating.

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I spend a lot of time on the History Channel, et al. There has been a huge showing of various religious programs (historically oriented) and he's been watching those more and more with me. Slow and easy are the keys with him. I have to remind myself that while the walls came crashing down for me, the crumbling of the foundation started several years before.