If You Say God Is All Good

[Ramen666]

This is to the Christians out there. You claim that God is loving, caring , and all forgiving. You claim that you cannot live with God and Jesus (even though they are the same thing.) You live by the morals that Bible supposebly says such as abortion is wrong, gays have no rights, family matters all that crap. However do Christians realize that God is not all loving.

 

You will defend God all you can, you are being preached to about things that God has done. The great loving things. You Christians say that God is loving and he wouldn't hurt a fly

 

 

 

 

 

Well that isn't the case is it?

 

Hitler was a man who demanded stuff of one race, He claimed one race was above others. He killed the rest. He even "ordered" the mass murder of the Jews. In which millions and millions of Jews got mass murdered. Hitler also killed gays, Jehovah Witness's and handicapped. The reason he did this because they were undesirable. They did not fit his vison.

 

How does this relate to your God? I know you will not support Hitler in any way shape or form in what he did. Why is God different? If you arn't a Christian you are off to hell. He allows Satan to exsist and do the torchering. Your God allows it to happen that is one step of him being like Hitler. If you oppose the ideals you will go to hell. God is vary selective over groups of people that is why ONLY Christians go to heaven and the rest will burn in hell. Hence if you are not of Ayran race the Nazis will kill you.

 

Would you defend someone who orders genocide, rape, killing of babies?

 

Here is some good info for you Christians in the Bible:

 

HERE IS VERES ANYONE WHO DEFENDS THIS NEEDS HELP:

 

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

 

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

 

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

 

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

 

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

 

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

 

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

 

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

 

Kill Brats

 

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

 

God Kills the Curious

 

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

 

 

Kill Men, Women, and Children

 

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

 

 

 

God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

 

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

 

 

 

Kill Old Men and Young Women

 

"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

 

(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)

 

 

 

God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

 

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

 

More Rape and Baby Killing

 

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

 

 

 

 

 

If God is all good Hitler must all good also because they do the same exact thing. If not God does much worse ( I wonder how many people are in hell just not believing)God must like torcher because he created hell in the first place.Go on defend your friend God or Jeebus. I am ready here "Its the Old Testament, out of context shit) Even if it is the Old Testament GOD ORDERED THESE KILLINGS. Just like Hitler ORDERED THE KILLINGS. Except God also has hell in there for these people. God is such a lovable puppy and yet he kills anyone who doesn't agree with him.

[Ramen666]

This thread seems like it is dead. My point of the argument is God cannot be considered loving, kind an all lovable puppy dog. He cannot be all moral because from this God really doesn't even follow his own rules. The reason I say Hitler is good example to compare to is because he did the same things. Hitler was an evil person who ordered genocides and hated people. God on the other hand does the same thing.

 

I remember in church the saying : Love your enemy, love your neibour

 

But does God really follow by that? Be honest God will throw you in hell , he doesn't care if you believe in him or not. God will let Satan do the dirty work.

 

I am pointing out whatever you have been told in church is a lie. They are leaving out a lot of information in your Bible that God does. I was lied to about this , I was told God is perfect and loving and all that...when I realized God is more a Satan figure (that we were preached about)

[Jun]

This thread seems like it is dead. My point of the argument is God cannot be considered loving, kind an all lovable puppy dog. He cannot be all moral because from this God really doesn't even follow his own rules. The reason I say Hitler is good example to compare to is because he did the same things. Hitler was an evil person who ordered genocides and hated people. God on the other hand does the same thing.

 

I remember in church the saying : Love your enemy, love your neibour

 

But does God really follow by that? Be honest God will throw you in hell , he doesn't care if you believe in him or not. God will let Satan do the dirty work.

 

I am pointing out whatever you have been told in church is a lie. They are leaving out a lot of information in your Bible that God does. I was lied to about this , I was told God is perfect and loving and all that...when I realized God is more a Satan figure (that we were preached about)

 

No argument here.

[willybilly30]

I don't get the reason christians call god a loving god.

He is about as much a loving puppy as a pitbull with rabies.

[Vixentrox]

I don't get the reason christians call god a loving god.

He is about as much a loving puppy as a pitbull with rabies.

Except god kills more children than 10000 pit bulls.

[Ramen666]

I don't get the reason christians call god a loving god.

He is about as much a loving puppy as a pitbull with rabies.

 

I like that metaphor , that really is good.

 

 

I find irony in Christianity a lot of times, but I think the whole God is loving bit has just warped a lot of people's images of God. ( Why are a lot of us here) I found the verses above right before my deconversion. What a shocking day that was because I was more like the carpet got ripped from under me. I realized something is vary wrong in Christianity (just from these verses). I thought God was good, loving, ect. In reality he it is nonsense and anyone who can read can see that.

 

The worst part is that I tried to show these verses to my Christian friend. He defended them I do not understand Christianity because of this, this is plain out murder. He says whatever God does it is moral not matter what we think. I said but that is not right I told him if Jesus was face to face to me I would say he was wrong for this murder. ( My friend also hates Hitler) They do the same damn thing and Christians are so brainwashed is that they do not see what really has happend in the past in the creation of the church and their own Bible. It's not that Christians believe in God that bugs me, it is that they cannot think for themselves. That they are almost brainwashed like the Nazi's (harsh generalization). The reason I say this is because a lot of Nazi's were not told about the Holocaust at all. They did not know that it happend just like Christians to change what the Bible says in their favor. ( On here it is done more than enough when Christians come on here) Heck I never noticed it before until I was an Atheist that my own pastor who preaches against that, DOES IT. That is what pisses me off is being lied to for 12ish years when I went to church. I feel ashamed that so many people have to live with this God hallcuination. I understand that people thinks it helps them. However the Nazis felt good about themselves and thought they were doing good. They did not question anything that they were told. For a second

 

Christians think about this: There are so many religions in this world, you claim that yours is the ultimate Truth. Am I correct? Well what truth is there really to belive? There are so many religons you have the same chance of being right as them......

 

My friend tried to also argue against this to before he said " Well the Bible many of those locations are real places" I said " Well I can write a book about aliens invading New York (which is a real location) and it isn't true.

 

The Bible is said to be " The Word of Gawd", Perfect, Holy, Flawless

 

The word kill is used 532 times

There are 364 Contradictions ( Don't quote me on that)

God is not loving and you know it ( a pit bull with rabbies)

God knows everything and all powerful yet he did not stop the snake, not stop the creation of hell, knew Satan would betray him (or did he betray him), He knew that two jetliners would crash into the World Trade Center killing all those people in a horrible death, Hurricane Katrina, The Tsumanims, Earth Quakes, Global Warming ( which I know Christians don't believe in it (my parents don't) I would worry about thatm what if they are right?

 

Since we are the subject of Hitler , HE ALLOWED THE HOLOCAUST. The Jews, his chosen people got fucked over. Where was God in the madness? Chilling with Satan (what the hell was God doing if he existed. I thought God was loving I thought he would save his chosen people even if they did kill Jesus (which technically is not neccessarily the Messiah to the Jews) I thought it was all for forgiveness and the sin crap but the mass genocide of the Jews happend. I see no love in that if the Jews are suppose to be the chosen people. I bet a lot became athesist when the Holocaust happend. I bet they have a good reason not to believe in Jesus.

 

My question is to Christians

 

Would you rather know you are being lied to and live on being happy thinking someone is really watching you and devote your life to something? or Would you rather know something more about your religion, find out that God is not loving and still live life to the fullist. Find out that you are being lied to and live with it.

[Guest BuPsych]

Really, the first rule of an ethical and moral debate is to give your opponent the benefit of the doubt. Look at their argument from the best possible angle. Picking up on a lot of OT scripture is not the best angle. A lot of things changed between the OT and NT, as I'm sure you know. Because Protestants no longer adhere to the OT much, using that for all examples is more or less a straw man.

 

If you wish to get into it though, one opinion is that God's love is reserved for those that adhere to his teachings. These people believe that God is capable of loving every person on this earth. But his love, like his forgiveness, happens to be reserved for those who live by him. His love is not unconditional, in any way, shape, or form. If it were there would be people like Charles Mansion in heaven.

 

As it stands, some of us choose to bypass his good grace. Because we don't believe in him or his teachings we are not candidates for his goodness. Any decently intelligent Christian could argue this.

 

You were in Deuteronomy so much, I'm surprised you didn't find this:

"See, I have set before you this day life and good, death and evil. If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you this day, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in His ways, and by keeping His Commandments and His statutes and His ordinances, then you shall live and multiply, and The Lord your God will bless you in the land which you are entering to take possession of it. But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, I declare to you this day, that you shall perish." (Deuteronomy 30:15-19).

 

As for the Hitler vs God comparison, they do seem similar at first. If one chooses to disregard Christian doctrine, i.e. God creating us and sacrificing all for us, then it is nearly impossible to do so. The best opinion I can think of is that God, unlike Hitler, provides us with a chance to conform. If you didn't fall into Hitler's strict view of the "Over-man" then you were as good as dead in his eyes. In God's eyes, we're golden as long as we conform to his teachings. I guess he figures that it is the least we could do.

[Astreja]

The best opinion I can think of is that God, unlike Hitler, provides us with a chance to conform. If you didn't fall into Hitler's strict view of the "Over-man" then you were as good as dead in his eyes. In God's eyes, we're golden as long as we conform to his teachings. I guess he figures that it is the least we could do.

What chance did the Amakalites have? The millions killed by the Flood?

 

And what of people like me, who find the Biblical god-concept so sick and twisted that I simply will not worship and will not "conform"?

[Asimov]

I'm sure the OP assumes a literal take on the Bible.

[Guest BuPsych]

The best opinion I can think of is that God, unlike Hitler, provides us with a chance to conform. If you didn't fall into Hitler's strict view of the "Over-man" then you were as good as dead in his eyes. In God's eyes, we're golden as long as we conform to his teachings. I guess he figures that it is the least we could do.

What chance did the Amakalites have? The millions killed by the Flood?

 

And what of people like me, who find the Biblical god-concept so sick and twisted that I simply will not worship and will not "conform"?

 

First of all, "sick and twisted"? Lets not revert to blackballing an entire belief system (or lack thereof). I don't go around calling Christians idiots, Jews stupid, and atheists moronic, now do I?

 

As for the question, I doubt I'm even close to the right answer. The Bible is vague in certain areas, and doesn't even address some. One point of view is that The Great Flood wasn't so great after all. Depending on how you translate the verse, the Flood might have been particular to one area. It is possible that everyone in that area had already heard and rejected the name of God. Or maybe they were all so corrupt that they were beyond grace. It is more or less guess work about specifics.

 

As stated before, those who willingly choose not to "conform" are outside the grace of God, in the OT at least. He will no longer hand out punishment, i.e. the flood, but we will be judged when we die, or during the End Times, whichever comes first.

[nick5]

Picking up on a lot of OT scripture is not the best angle. A lot of things changed between the OT and NT

 

Idiocy. According to the bible, god is perfect and timeless. Changing his ways would imply that they were either not perfect in the OT, or not perfect in the NT.

 

Also, he is still extremely cruel and evil in the NT. Hell anyone?

[Astreja]

First of all, "sick and twisted"? Lets not revert to blackballing an entire belief system (or lack thereof).

Christianity considers the death-by-torture of one particular quasi-mythical Jewish man to be a good thing. That is all the reason I will ever need to reject the entire religion.

 

Don't even get me started on concepts like Original Sin and the Apocalypse, because they're even worse.

[Guest BuPsych]

God is timeless, yes, but his covenants with man have changed. Pentateuchal food laws food laws are one simple example of a change between the OT and NT. Whether the covenant was changed for the times, or because God knew we could not live up the original covenant, I do not know, but they were changed in the end.

 

As for the death by torture, it really isn't viewed as good. He knew what would happen, and yet he knowingly went through with it. The act was a beautiful and touching thing. It would be like someone pushing you out of the way of a car, when they know they wouldn't have time to move. You wouldn't think that the guy being hit was good, but you would feel a connection to him because of his sacrifice, and view the act as kind-hearted. As far as I see it, it is the same thing for Christians.

[Astreja]

You see, that's the thing. I don't feel any pity or love for Jesus on account of this alleged sacrifice. None.

 

When I read the Gospels what I clearly see is someone going out of his way to provoke the authorities and "fulfill" OT prophesies via deliberate, premeditated actions. Sort of like someone reading in a book "The magical holy guy shall come into Chicago wearing a red hat", then going out to buy the red hat and the bus ticket to Chicago.

 

And we're expected to believe that this chap is a god, and that his death was necessary to save us from some mythical taint that the god itself is required to punish? Damned clunky way of running a universe, if you ask me.

[nick5]

It would be like someone pushing you out of the way of a car,

 

No, it's not like that at all.

First of all, there is nothing to be saved from. Christians see a car where there is none.

 

Also, pretending there really was a car, if the guy who pushed me was all powerful, I'd think he was pretty damn stupid for not just making the car stop with his powers.

 

Finally, it's not a sacrifice at all if the guy knows he won't really be dead (at least not for more than 3 days) and is gonna be chilling on a little cloud for millions of years afterward. Not a sacrifice at all.

 

Jesus is a pretty lousy savior.

[neverclear5]

Its a fair point but you know what they say guys, first guy to mention the Nazi's loses!

[nick5]

That's bullshit. Mentioning the nazis has nothing to do with how right you are in an argument. Whoever made up that stupid rule should be shot in the face, because it's just not true unless both parties agree to it before a debate.