Evidence That God Exists

[R. S. Martin]

Non-living things cannot create language. They

*cannot* create codes. Matter cannot think, talk,

communicate, or create information.

 

 

All this proves is that you don't have the brains to read the information that matter creates. When you get insight you might learn how to read river banks, tree trunks, etc.

[Wertbag]

Intelligence is an interesting subject, I'm always amazed at the tiny spider with a brain the size of a pin head able to build a huge symetrical web with no training. Or the weaver bird able to build the impressive nests with no blue print in sight.

There are many stories of animals learning quite impressive things even though their brains are often minute. Even ants can build complex nests, can work together, and can communicate in a basic way, and yet they are not taught anything from birth.

Communication can happen by instinct, with no real intelligence required. It is only advanced communication that must be taught (reading, writing, mathmatics etc).

It is interesting to see humans who have had no education, who become like wild animals, often referred to as wolf boys, they seem to communicate based on similar methods to wolves (noise and body position giving meaning rather than actual language).

[Lycorth]

Show me just ONE example of a language that didn't come

from a mind."

 

Show me one example of a god that didn't come from a mind.

 

If we must have a creator-god because of our complexity, then who made the creator-god, since it, too, must be a complex being?

 

(I don't expect an answer for this, since Xians to date haven't been able to answer either of the above.)

[AKR]

*sigh* i came to this thread, expecting evidence. guess it's back to being an atheist.

 

this thread doth not deliver.

[Trancelation]

*sigh* i came to this thread, expecting evidence. guess it's back to being an atheist.

 

this thread doth not deliver.

Slamdunk pretty much only says what he has to say, then repeats the argument when someone offers a rebuttal. Reading his posts gives me a similar feeling to watching the video of the monkey that drinks its own pee.

[Sexton Blake]

A three part proof I use to prove god does not exist. Even some atheists trying to score points have failed to show it wrong:

 

1) god has never provenly done anything.

2) god has never provenly communicated with anyone.

3) god is impossible.

 

Basically we have no evidence god exists and because he is impossible by every measure we know of, his existence would have to be proven.

[chefranden]

EVIDENCE FOR THE EXISTANCE OF GOD

 

It's very simple. Messages, languages, and coded

information ONLY come from a mind. A mind that

agrees on an alphabet and a meaning of words and

sentences. A mind that expresses both desire and

intent.

 

Messages, languages and coded information never,

ever come from anything else besides a mind.

No one has ever produced a single example of a message

that did not come from a mind."

 

Nature can create fascinating patterns - snowflakes,

sand dunes, crystals, stalagmites and stalagtites. Tornados

and turbulence and cloud formations.

 

Non-living things cannot create language. They

*cannot* create codes. Matter cannot think, talk,

communicate, or create information.

 

It is believed by some that life on planet earth arose

naturally from the "primordial soup," the early ocean which

produced enzymes and eventually RNA, DNA, and primitive cells.

 

To the person who says that life arose naturally,

you need only ask: "Where did the information come from?

Show me just ONE example of a language that didn't come

from a mind."

 

Show me one example of a mind that didn't come from a brain.

[Dave]

Show me one example of a mind that didn't come from a brain.

George H. W. Bush.

[NotBlinded]

Show me one example of a mind that didn't come from a brain.

George H. W. Bush.

[Thurisaz]

Show me one example of a mind that didn't come from a brain.

George H. W. Bush.

 

With shrubbenführer you'll first have to prove that there is a mind at all

[trashy]

I think if you do a bit of comparison you'll see that SlamDunk is the same poster as jbthree..........inability to use the quote function, disingenuousness, etc.

[quicksand]

EVIDENCE FOR THE EXISTANCE OF GOD

Excellent. This is exactly what I have been waiting for. I can not wait to read your explicit list of concrete, physical examples that establish a supernatural Christian-God Being in the universe without resorting to naturalism.

 

I think I about to turn the corner here and accept a belief in god where one did not exist before!

It's very simple. Messages, languages, and coded information ONLY come from a mind. A mind that agrees on an alphabet and a meaning of words and sentences. A mind that expresses both desire and intent.

 

Messages, languages and coded information never, ever come from anything else besides a mind. No one has ever produced a single example of a message that did not come from a mind."

Well, your talking about language here, not BibleGod.

 

Let me ask you this. Whales communicate. Must be a whale god. The chirps that a bird make identity its territory to another bird. Must be a bird god.

 

Well, I am sure your next proof will be more satisfying in substantiating your claim of gods existence.

 

Nature can create fascinating patterns - snowflakes, sand dunes, crystals, stalagmites and stalagtites. Tornados and turbulence and cloud formations.

Sounds like your referring to complexity. Okay, good so far. However, would you say that God is more complex than his creation? If that's the case, then only something more complex can create something more complex.

 

Sorry, but this proof from complexity sets up an infinite regression.

 

Maybe your next proof will finally do it.

Non-living things cannot create language. They *cannot* create codes. Matter cannot think, talk, communicate, or create information.

Well, sorry this one doesn't work too. Bacteria are living. And as far as we can tell, they don't communicate in the "human-way" that you indicated in your first post. Oh, matter does think, depending on the matter of course.

 

Don't believe me?

 

Pull that brain out of your head. Then we'll see whose talking, and messenging then.

It is believed by some that life on planet earth arose naturally from the "primordial soup," the early ocean which produced enzymes and eventually RNA, DNA, and primitive cells.

 

To the person who says that life arose naturally, you need only ask: "Where did the information come from? Show me just ONE example of a language that didn't come

from a mind."

As inarticulate as you are, this is a very reasonable, if not understood explanation for life. And no one is arguing that it does not take a "mind" and a brain to produce language. This would be a strawman and it is also a very fallacious argument: fallacy of analogy.

 

Read this article. Nature can create these codes, even DNA-like codes, without Divine Intervention. "We were shocked to see these molecules arrange themselves in this way," said Zeng, university professor of chemistry.

 

All your proofs have failed. But that is inherent flaw when you beg naturalism for supernaturalism.

[Dave]

EVIDENCE FOR THE EXISTANCE OF GOD

Excellent. This is exactly what I have been waiting for......

And the rest of us have been waiting for his return to defend his claim. I have no doubt that he will not return. christians of his ilk are a cowardly bunch.

[Sexton Blake]

On CNN the other day, I watched openly christian led companies in America, with the dogma openly displayed and prayer meetings, etc. Of course they do not discriminate against atheists and people of other religions (and of course, Dubya Bush votes Democrat).

[invictus1967]

The biggest evidence there is pointing to the existence of God------

The simple fact that man has been trying for thousands of years to prove that He doesn’t exist and they have yet to come up with anything.

 

If you want to call God a theory, fine!!!

 

When everybody and their brother tries to disprove a theory and fail, the theory is generally accepted.

 

Prove to me there is no God. Until then, I will cling to the “theory” with the least holes in it.

 

PS---

Please let this "evolve" into a discussion about “evolution” or “abiogenesis” or whatever the latest "scientific" fad is. That way, I can show you the “holes” I am referring to.

[Dhampir]

The simple fact that man has been trying for thousands of years to prove that He doesn’t exist and they have yet to come up with anything.

Prove Mythra doesn't exist, then. And while you're at it, how bout proving Shiva, Indra, Ramuh, and the entire rest of the Hindu Pantheon to be imaginary. Once you do, I or someone else will prove your god doesn't exist.

When everybody and their brother tries to disprove a theory and fail, the theory is generally accepted.

 

 

Prove to me there is no God. Until then, I will cling to the “theory” with the least holes in it.

Please let this "evolve" into a discussion about “evolution” or “abiogenesis” or whatever the latest "scientific" fad is. That way, I can show you the “holes” I am referring to.

Hmm... did you read these remarks before you posted?

[Kuroikaze]

The biggest evidence there is pointing to the existence of God------

The simple fact that man has been trying for thousands of years to prove that He doesn’t exist and they have yet to come up with anything.

 

If you want to call God a theory, fine!!!

 

When everybody and their brother tries to disprove a theory and fail, the theory is generally accepted.

 

Prove to me there is no God. Until then, I will cling to the “theory” with the least holes in it.

 

PS---

Please let this "evolve" into a discussion about “evolution” or “abiogenesis” or whatever the latest "scientific" fad is. That way, I can show you the “holes” I am referring to.

 

If you are going to start describing your religious beliefs in scientific terms then I hope you can actually suggest an experimental model that I can use to TEST God's existence.

 

And by the way, arguing that something is true because some people think its NOT true is about the dumbest tactic I see fundies take...not like its the first time though.

[invictus1967]

I simply stated that man has been trying for thousands of years to disprove God and have failed every time; I never dictated what you had to call Him.

 

If you want to call God Shiva, Indra or Heavy Metal, that is between you and Him.

 

Did you read before you posted????????????

[Kuroikaze]

I simply stated that man has been trying for thousands of years to disprove God and have failed every time; I never dictated what you had to call Him.

 

what is your criteria for deciding they failed? what specific arguments and/or people are you even talking about?

 

You are acting like you have come up with some brilliant idea here, but there really isn't any substance to your "argument"

[Dave]

The biggest evidence there is pointing to the existence of God------

The simple fact that man has been trying for thousands of years to prove that He doesn’t exist and they have yet to come up with anything.

Don't have to. YOU claim the thing exists, YOU have to prove it. So far no one has done so. Your's is a very dishonest attempt at shifting the burden of proof, but that's not unusual, we're used to such dishonesty coming from believers.

[Antlerman]

The biggest evidence there is pointing to the existence of God------

The simple fact that man has been trying for thousands of years to prove that He doesn’t exist and they have yet to come up with anything.

That's silly! You can't come up with anything because you can't prove a negative. Can you "prove" that the an invisible snork isn't sitting on your shoulder?

 

If you want to call God a theory, fine!!!

I would never call God a theory. God is a belief. Theory in a scientific discussion is a model to describe natural processes. God, by definition is supernatual and can't be described using scientific language. You have to use a different language to describe God. That language would be mythology, like that of all superhuman heros and beings. Those things don't exist in the natural world.

 

When everybody and their brother tries to disprove a theory and fail, the theory is generally accepted.

Praise God!!! Does this mean that everyone at the ICR now accepts the Theory of Evolution as fact? Do you, or do you contradict the assertion you just made?

 

Prove to me there is no God. Until then, I will cling to the “theory” with the least holes in it.

Nope. Prove to me there isn't an invisible snork on your shoulder. This is a logic fallacy and only proves you need to brush up on proper use of the tools of critical thinking. That you cannot disprove the invisible snork does not make it a valid assertion. The burden of proof is on the one making the positive assertion, and in the case of asserting God exists, the burden of proof is upon you. So far the one you offered is not proof, but just a faulted logic argument.

 

PS---

Please let this "evolve" into a discussion about “evolution” or “abiogenesis” or whatever the latest "scientific" fad is. That way, I can show you the “holes” I am referring to.

"Fad" huh? I can see you've never learned how science operates. Before we begin, you need to demonstrate you have the most rudimentary understanding of what science does by explaining to us how the Scientfic Method works and the purpose for why it is used. If you can't, I will keep asking you to do so, as at this point I suspect your criticism of science is based on ignorance, not knowledge.

[Piprus]

I simply stated that man has been trying for thousands of years to disprove God and have failed every time; I never dictated what you had to call Him.

 

If you want to call God Shiva, Indra or Heavy Metal, that is between you and Him.

Wow!...Thank you, Invictus...you've just given me the power to make up my own god! Super! So...

 

The one true god is Cranston Snord, who wandered about the void on his crutch (he's crippled, ya know). And where he pissed became a galaxy. And where he shat became the planets. And where he coughed up and spat out lungers became living souls.

 

But don't dare offend Cranston Snord with thy sins, lest he smite thee over the head with his almighty crutch, and thee suffers for all time seeing stars and twittering birds about thy head!

 

Sounds like a good theology to me, Invictus...care to prove me wrong?

[Mythra]

Show me one example of a mind that didn't come from a brain.

George H. W. Bush.

 

Oh, but how wrong you are, Dave. Here's proof:

 

 

 

 

[Mythra]

I simply stated that man has been trying for thousands of years to disprove God and have failed every time; I never dictated what you had to call Him.

 

Invictus? You're not still a christian, are you? Tell me you're not still spouting your nonsense. Such a waste of a brilliant mind.

 

Like the sole reason for analyzing the fossil records and coming up with the theory of evolution is to try and disprove god.

 

It's called science.

[Dave]

Show me one example of a mind that didn't come from a brain.

George H. W. Bush.

 

Oh, but how wrong you are, Dave. Here's proof:

 

That's an insult to apes.