Was Hitler A Christian

[SkepticOfBible]

So I was just looking for the website, "the evil bible "in google and gave me the following result

 

Hitler was not a christian.

 

Then I found a link to a article which addresses the anti-Christianity quotes of Hitler.

 

Hitler's table talk and other extraneous sources

 

Wish I had found this earlier, when I was debating with another Christian

 

Enjoy

 

Skeptic

[Jun]

Hitler was Catholic.

 

The following is by our very own Webmaster, from the forums podcasts section here - http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2006/04...ts-tactics.html

 

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.—Mein Kampf, Vol 1, Chap II

 

Everybody who has the right kind of feeling for his country is solemnly bound, each within his own denomination, to see to it that he is not constantly talking about the Will of God merely from the lips but that in actual fact he fulfills the Will of God and does not allow God's handiwork to be debased. For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties. Whoever destroys His work wages war against God's Creation and God's Will.—Mein Kampf, Vol II, Chap X

 

“My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. And as a man I have the duty to see to it that human society does not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did the civilization of the ancient world some two thousand years ago—a civilization which was driven to its ruin through this same Jewish people.—Speech given April 12, 1922

 

And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labour, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exploited.—Speech given April 12, 1922

 

May God Almighty give our work His blessing, strengthen our purpose, and endow us with wisdom and the trust of our people, for we are fighting not for ourselves but for Germany.—Speech given Feb 1, 1933

 

At the head of our [National Socialist] program there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will—not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord.Speech given Sept 6, 1938

[currentchristian]

Hitler was Catholic.

 

The following is by our very own Webmaster, from the forums podcasts section here - http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2006/04...ts-tactics.html

 

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.—Mein Kampf, Vol 1, Chap II

 

Everybody who has the right kind of feeling for his country is solemnly bound, each within his own denomination, to see to it that he is not constantly talking about the Will of God merely from the lips but that in actual fact he fulfills the Will of God and does not allow God's handiwork to be debased. For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties. Whoever destroys His work wages war against God's Creation and God's Will.—Mein Kampf, Vol II, Chap X

 

“My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. And as a man I have the duty to see to it that human society does not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did the civilization of the ancient world some two thousand years ago—a civilization which was driven to its ruin through this same Jewish people.—Speech given April 12, 1922

 

And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labour, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exploited.—Speech given April 12, 1922

 

May God Almighty give our work His blessing, strengthen our purpose, and endow us with wisdom and the trust of our people, for we are fighting not for ourselves but for Germany.—Speech given Feb 1, 1933

 

At the head of our [National Socialist] program there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will—not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord.Speech given Sept 6, 1938

 

Nobody wants Hitler in their group.

 

The quotes above in which he claims Christianity were made ten years before he came to power in Germany. Perhaps he was an ex-Christian by the time he was the insane ruler of a whole people gone nuts. But I'm sure ex-Christians don't want him, either!

 

As I said, nobody wants Hitler in their group. And rightly so!

 

Here's a link to a 54-minute documentary titled "The Occult History of the Third Reich."

 

-CC in MA

[Jun]

Nobody wants Hitler in their group.

 

The quotes above in which he claims Christianity were made ten years before he came to power in Germany. Perhaps he was an ex-Christian by the time he was the insane ruler of a whole people gone nuts. But I'm sure ex-Christians don't want him, either!

 

As I said, nobody wants Hitler in their group. And rightly so!

 

Here's a link to a 54-minute documentary titled "The Occult History of the Third Reich."

 

-CC in MA

 

Agreed.

 

Thanks for the link, interesting.

[Lycorth]

Having had a good background in this sort of thing, I can offer my opinion that Hitler was indeed a Xian, though he ultimately marched to his own beat. It is likely he had his doubts and problems with the religion and studied other beliefs as well - just like any other human being.

 

Hitler was scum, but he still had a human mind, and I'm sure it too had problems processing the totality of Xian bullshit at times.

[currentchristian]

Having had a good background in this sort of thing, I can offer my opinion that Hitler was indeed a Xian, though he ultimately marched to his own beat. It is likely he had his doubts and problems with the religion and studied other beliefs as well - just like any other human being.

 

Hitler was scum, but he still had a human mind, and I'm sure it too had problems processing the totality of Xian bullshit at times.

 

I'll let the exchristians have him, if you want him. I really don't want him in my group!

 

It's like when this recent scandal broke in Congress with Representative Foley getting too friendly with the House pages. Then he comes out after the scandal as "a gay man." Like I want him in that group with me -- and why didn't he "come out" years ago? If he had, maybe he wouldn't have become sexually warped.

 

Anyway, back to Hitler. According to William L. Shirer's definitive The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, Hitler "often visited the Nietzsche museum in Weimar and publicized his veneration for the philosopher by posing for photographs of himself staring in rapture at the bust of the great man." Here's one such picture.

 

This is the same Nietzsche who wrote that Christianity was "the one great curse, the one enormous and innermost perversion," and "the one immortal blemish of mankind..." and that was just the nice stuff he said about Christiainty.

 

So, no, he was not Christian. Hitler may have been rasied in Catholic culture and participated in Catholic rituals as a youngster, but did he believe that the meek would inherit the earth -- every Panzer he sent east toward Russia and every Luftwaffe pilot he sent west across the English Channel would indicate he did not.

 

-CC in MA

[Lycorth]

So, no, he was not Christian. Hitler may have been rasied in Catholic culture and participated in Catholic rituals as a youngster, but did he believe that the meek would inherit the earth -- every Panzer he sent east toward Russia and every Luftwaffe pilot he sent west across the English Channel would indicate he did not.

 

But since Jebus (as Yahooweh in the OT, since Jebus and the Father are one, no?) is said to have sent his armed thugs armies into the lands of non-believers to use violence to win those lands over for himself, doesn't that indicate that Jebus doesn't live by the same decrees he sets forth for us?

 

In that sense, Hitler only behaved like Yahooweh is said to have

[currentchristian]

So, no, he was not Christian. Hitler may have been rasied in Catholic culture and participated in Catholic rituals as a youngster, but did he believe that the meek would inherit the earth -- every Panzer he sent east toward Russia and every Luftwaffe pilot he sent west across the English Channel would indicate he did not.

 

But since Jebus (as Yahooweh in the OT, since Jebus and the Father are one, no?) is said to have sent his armed thugs armies into the lands of non-believers to use violence to win those lands over for himself, doesn't that indicate that Jebus doesn't live by the same decrees he sets forth for us?

 

In that sense, Hitler only behaved like Yahooweh is said to have

 

 

I think you are confusing Jesus and Muhammad or maybe the Pope and Jesus.

 

-CC in MA

[Lycorth]

What in the blue hell are you talking about?

 

I speak of the Old Testament and the crimes against humanity your god is said to have committed. Or do you deny your own holy book?

 

I don't think I am confusing this with anything.

[currentchristian]

What in the blue hell are you talking about?

 

I speak of the Old Testament and the crimes against humanity your god is said to have committed. Or do you deny your own holy book?

 

I don't think I am confusing this with anything.

 

I was referring to the fact that the early Christians did not wield the sword, as it seems the early Muslims did; and I was referring to the Crusades blessed by the Pope.

 

These passages you highlight are troubling. Even today, some of those who claim to be followers of "God" claim that "God" is somehow responsible for things like 9/11 (remember what Falwell and Robertson said about that?). I don't buy these aspersions on Love's character.

 

-CC in MA

[Warrior_of_god]

Hitler believed in god and saw Christianity as a tool. He invisioned the SS as a new order of knights, hell he even wanted to rewrite the bible. He was not Christian but believed in god.

 

I was referring to the fact that the early Christians did not wield the sword, as it seems the early Muslims did

So...what? Your better than them because you started later? Is Stalin better than Hitler because he didnt kill people when Hitler killed people???

[currentchristian]

Hitler believed in god and saw Christianity as a tool. He invisioned the SS as a new order of knights, hell he even wanted to rewrite the bible. He was not Christian but believed in god.

 

I was referring to the fact that the early Christians did not wield the sword, as it seems the early Muslims did

So...what? Your better than them because you started later? Is Stalin better than Hitler because he didnt kill people when Hitler killed people???

 

Oh, no, just clarifying a point I made in an earlier post. I do wish, however, that Constantine had not seen that burning cross and the Roman Empire apparatus would not have wed itself to the Christian religion. But that's Monday quarterbacking.

 

Great Murrow quotes!

 

-CC in MA

[Kuroikaze]

I think it greatly oversimplifies the issue to say Hitler was or was not a Christian...its as if being a Christian makes Christianity responsible for his actions....or his veneration of Nietzsche's writings makes Atheists...or anyone who dislikes Christianity all potential genocidal maniacs.

 

First, I'll say that despite some of Nietzsche's racists tendencies his indictments of Christianity have merit.

 

secondly, Hitler revered Martin Luther just as much as he did Nietzsche...and Marting Luther was easily as racist or more than Nietzsche....whether Christians choose to admit it or not antisemitism was born in out of Christian theology as it sought to separate itself from Judaism during the 2nd=, 3rd and 4th centuries.

 

As a Christian, you may find this an unfortunate by product of Christianity, but it doesn't change the fact that the Catholic church supported Hitler in his antisemitism.

 

Now, on the other hand, I would be the first to admit that Hitler was in part simply using antisemitism as a political ploy....They were being used as a scape goat for his administration. if it hadn't been the Jews he would have found some other group to exploit.

 

 

 

 

Oh, no, just clarifying a point I made in an earlier post. I do wish, however, that Constantine had not seen that burning cross and the Roman Empire apparatus would not have wed itself to the Christian religion. But that's Monday quarterbacking.

 

Great Murrow quotes!

 

-CC in MA

 

I think I should point out that had Christianity not become the state religion then it would have likely disappeared along with all the other roman religions when the empire fell....like it or not, it is very unlikely that Christianity would be a dominate religion in this country had the roman empire not converted.

[Lycorth]

Well-put, Kuro. It doesn't matter what religion Hitler was or was not. His deeds stand on their own, much as the deeds of violent Xians or Moose-lims in times past (or present) does.

 

Hitler's ideology influenced him, just like the ideology followed by ancient Xians and Moose-lims influenced them. That is what condemns the ideologies each followed.

 

And CC, you may not "buy" those "aspersions on love's character" (understanding that you mean your own version of "God" when you say "love"), but the fact remains - they are there. Now, if your god inerrantly inspired the Babble and intended for it to say what it does say, and the Babble indeed has those "troubling" passages in it, what does that say about your god?

 

Again, I see little difference between the Abrahamic god and Hitler.

[currentchristian]

I think I should point out that had Christianity not become the state religion then it would have likely disappeared along with all the other roman religions when the empire fell....like it or not, it is very unlikely that Christianity would be a dominate religion in this country had the roman empire not converted.

 

Yep, it's one of those great "what if's" in history. Fun to ponder.

 

-CC in MA

 

 

I think it greatly oversimplifies the issue to say Hitler was or was not a Christian...its as if being a Christian makes Christianity responsible for his actions....or his veneration of Nietzsche's writings makes Atheists...or anyone who dislikes Christianity all potential genocidal maniacs.

 

First, I'll say that despite some of Nietzsche's racists tendencies his indictments of Christianity have merit.

 

secondly, Hitler revered Martin Luther just as much as he did Nietzsche...and Marting Luther was easily as racist or more than Nietzsche....whether Christians choose to admit it or not antisemitism was born in out of Christian theology as it sought to separate itself from Judaism during the 2nd=, 3rd and 4th centuries.

 

As a Christian, you may find this an unfortunate by product of Christianity, but it doesn't change the fact that the Catholic church supported Hitler in his antisemitism.

 

Now, on the other hand, I would be the first to admit that Hitler was in part simply using antisemitism as a political ploy....They were being used as a scape goat for his administration. if it hadn't been the Jews he would have found some other group to exploit.

 

Excellent points. We cannot judge Atheism by Nietzsche or Madalyn Murray and we can't judge Christianity by Jimmy Swaggart or the Grand Inquisitor.

 

Germane point on Martin Luther, too. Have you ever read his The Jews and Their Lies. It's so nasty I won't even link to it, but it's easily googled. I'd certainly not label myself a Lutheran.

 

-CC in MA

 

And CC, you may not "buy" those "aspersions on love's character" (understanding that you mean your own version of "God" when you say "love"), but the fact remains - they are there. Now, if your god inerrantly inspired the Babble and intended for it to say what it does say, and the Babble indeed has those "troubling" passages in it, what does that say about your god?

 

Again, I see little difference between the Abrahamic god and Hitler.

 

I do not believe in the doctrine of verbal-plenary inspiration of the Bible. Nor do I believe that the Bible is inerrant or infallible. Not at all.

 

-CC in MA

[Kuroikaze]

 

Germane point on Martin Luther, too. Have you ever read his The Jews and Their Lies. It's so nasty I won't even link to it, but it's easily googled. I'd certainly not label myself a Lutheran.

 

-CC in MA

 

 

I believe I read a bit of it in my history of Christianity class in college...I remember my teacher saying that his antisemitism got a lot worse in his old age.

[Mr. XC]

Jun already quoted this, but I just want to highlight it before giving my second reference. From Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol 1, Chap II

http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch02.html

 

From Straight Dope in response to "Was Hitler an 'honest to God' Christian?":

The short answer is a definite "maybe" or, more precisely, "probably neither." The looooong answer is somewhat more complicated.

 

You are right that Hitler did mention Christianity many times in his writings. He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in Mein Kampf, and he claimed to be a Christian. But Hitler's secretary, Martin Bormann, also declared that "National Socialism [Nazism] and Christianity are irreconcilable" and Hitler didn't squawk too much about it.

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhitlerchristian.html

Please read more by following the above link. I did not want to paste the entire article due to copyright concerns.

[Lightbearer]

Didn't I post something about this in the Lions Den like two weeks ago?!

 

Wheres my credit?

[SkepticOfBible]

Hitler was Catholic.

Nope he was a christian, who wanted to unite the Catholics and Christians, otherwise why would he revere Martin Luther.

 

Speaking of which there are still assholes out there who actually dare to say that there wasn't anything particularly bad with Martin Luther writing, this too on a Jewish forum

 

http://kosherjudaism.org/forum/viewtopic.p...asc&start=0

 

He states his reasons directly. One was the Jewish refusal to recognize that their being expelled from the land of Israel and scattered throughout the world was, according to Torahm, the result of God's displeasure with them. Luther found it extremely annoying that Jews would boast of their most-favored status under God when by their own scriptures they were the objects of his displeasure

.....

What is never quoted, except by me, is his later statement that such repression would not work, the only proper thing to do was to expel the Jews from Germany. Now, that was wrong, and a bad thing to say, but it is not as bad as what he is usually accused of and it would have prevented the Holocaust as well.

 

In any case, one may a case that Hitler may have used Christianity to serve his political agenda, that doesn't change the fact that Nazi Germans at that time had a big hand in it.

 

As historians would tell you, the majority of Christiandom was hostile to the Jews. Hitler did not invent Christian anti-semitism he used it.

 

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/akz/akz2409.htm

 

The major theological paradigm of the time period was still informed by the notion that the Jews had rejected Jesus Christ and thus would bear some measure of responsibility for their own

 

So the question which skeptics should asks "Considering that the majority of the population were Christians, why was it it was only few numbers who opposed Hitler?"

 

One may claim fear, which is justifiable from a human perpespective, but not from Supernatural perpective.

 

A good point was raised in the article in my first link

 

In an attempt to rewrite history, those who desire to eliminate Hitler from membership of Christianity, always find an excuse to dismiss Hitler's actual words. Instead they rely on indirect quotes from a questionable source such as Bormann's edited version of the table talk. But if we were to use this form of dubious scholarship, shouldn't we also quote Hitler from other indirect sources? If so, then, again, their plan fails and reveals the slanting of their bias. For if we took these apocryphal sources as evidence, then Hitler's Christianity become even more evident.

 

Those who knew Hitler remarked about his Christian views.

 

Here we have a Christian minister to his fellow Christians:

If anyone can lay claim to God's help, then it is Hitler, for without God's benevolent fatherly hand, without his blessing, the nation would not be where it stands today. It is an unbelievable miracle that God has bestowed on our people.

 

-Minister Rust, in a speech to a mass meeting of German Chrisitans on June 29, 1933 [Helmreich, p. 138]

 

The established Methodist church paper, the Friedensglocke, vouched for the authenticity of a story about Hitler where he invited a group of deaconesses from the Bethel Institutions into his home at Obersalzberg:

 

The deaconesses entered the chamber and were astonished to see the pictures of Frederick the Great, Luther, and Bismarck on the wall. Then Hitler said:

 

Those are the three greatest men that God has given the German people. From Fredrick the Great I have learned bravery, and from Bismarck statecraft. The greatest of the three is Dr. Martin Luther, for he made it possible to bring unity among the German tribes by giving them a common language through his translation of the Bible into German....

 

[Note that Hitler's own words about his admiration for Martin Luther are expressed in Mein Kampf.]

 

One sister could not refrain from saying: Herr Reichkanzler, from where do you get the courage to undertake the great changes in the whole Reich?

 

Thereupon Hitler took out of his pocket the New Testament of Dr. Martin Luther, which one could see had been used very much, and said earnestly: "From God's word." [Helmreich, p. 139]

 

Even the Cardinal Faulhaber of Munich who visited Hitler at his mountain retreat in Obersalzburg confessed:

 

Without a doubt the chancellor lives in faith in God. He recognizes Christianity as the foundation of Western culture...[Helmreich, p.279]

 

And this comes from reputable Christian sources of the day including a Cardinal! How odd that there are Christians today who think they can divine the mind of an anti-Christian Hitler they never met, removed by a generation, and dismiss all his direct quotes about Jesus, while denying their own brethren of the Church who actually talked with Hitler. If prominent Christians in the 1930s could be so easily deceived, could not be the same be applied to today's Christians? And if deception describes the temper of the faithful, then what does that say for Christianity as a whole and the thinking process that it entails?

[currentchristian]

Jun already quoted this, but I just want to highlight it before giving my second reference. From Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol 1, Chap II

http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch02.html

 

From Straight Dope in response to "Was Hitler an 'honest to God' Christian?":

The short answer is a definite "maybe" or, more precisely, "probably neither." The looooong answer is somewhat more complicated.

 

You are right that Hitler did mention Christianity many times in his writings. He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in Mein Kampf, and he claimed to be a Christian. But Hitler's secretary, Martin Bormann, also declared that "National Socialism [Nazism] and Christianity are irreconcilable" and Hitler didn't squawk too much about it.

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhitlerchristian.html

Please read more by following the above link. I did not want to paste the entire article due to copyright concerns.

 

Great link, Mr. XC. I think the author of that essay sums it up very well in the second-to-last paragraph:

 

As for your chat-room experiences, well, my friend and source David Gehrig noted that Hitler still sets the gold standard for "easiest rhetorical cheap shot." He related a comment from Usenet that there is an empirical law: As a Usenet discussion gets longer, the probability that someone in it will compare someone else in it to Hitler asymptotically approaches 1. In other words, atheists looking for a quick cheap-shot may claim Hitler was a Christian; similarly, Christians looking for a quick shot may claim he was an atheist. Know what? Hitler was a vegetarian! Oooh, those evil vegetarians! He also recommended that parents give their children milk to drink instead of beer and started the first anti-smoking campaign. (So by the "reasoning" used in these types of arguments, if you are truly anti-Hitler, you should smoke heavily and only give your baby beer!) Better watch out, though he was an oxygen-breather, too! In other words, does it really matter whether Hitler was an atheist or a Christian or whatever? Just because somebody may hold a particular worldview (along with other views) doesn't make him a spokesman for that view, or even remotely representative of others who hold that view. No matter how his madness is painted, he was still evil incarnate.

 

-CC in MA

[Guest BaylorBear]

So, no, he was not Christian. Hitler may have been rasied in Catholic culture and participated in Catholic rituals as a youngster, but did he believe that the meek would inherit the earth -- every Panzer he sent east toward Russia and every Luftwaffe pilot he sent west across the English Channel would indicate he did not.

 

-CC in MA

 

You are 100% correct-Hitler was not a Xtian. What he said publically about religion was not was he thought privately.

[Mr. XC]

Didn't I post something about this in the Lions Den like two weeks ago?!

 

Wheres my credit?

I generally see what is happening by checking "View New Posts." I do not frequent the Lions Den too often. I guess I should check it out more often.

 

Anyway, if you are interested, you can find Lightbearer's recent topic on this same discussion here:

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=13214

 

You are 100% correct-Hitler was not a Xtian. What he said publically about religion was not was he thought privately.

I tend to agree, however, the subject of what he thought privately gets a little fuzzy in the academic eye when less than scholarly sources are quoted.

[currentchristian]

Two links of interest to this discussion:

 

Martin Luther Memorial Church (a Berlin church of the Nazi era)

 

German Christian movement (scant information at Wikipedia)

 

-CC in MA