Need Some Serious Help On This Topic

[Tyson]

I am from the Caribbean, St. Thomas Virgin Islands to be specific, and I grew up hearing about voodoo also known locally as "obeah (o-b-yah)." No one in my family ever practiced any such thing and frankly, folks from the Virgin Islands (natives) are not into such things, but being an American port which has attracted people from all over the Caribbean, we have had our share of immigrants who came from islands where voodoo is a little more saturated in the fabric of their communities, notably the French (or former French) islands. Needless to say, we have a rather sizable Haitian population (relatively speaking) and as is usually the case, many are illegal and tend to come from the poorer class of that country and as a result they tend to be the more superstitious and more likely to dabble in that art. Please, this is not to say all of them are into this as I know better.

 

In any event, the question always inevitably comes up from time to time on Caribbean sites - "Do you think voodoo/obeah is real?" Often even the staunchest West Indian Christian will quietly admit they do believe it is real BUT claim they are covered under the blood of Jesus so they cannot be harmed by it, yet, they still sound unsure and only say that to comfort themselves. Of course, there will also be examples given to prove that voodoo is real and then they point to satan as the mastermind behind it using this to prove that satan actually does exist and voodoo is one of his manifestations, so when a person loses their minds or experiences a dramatic bad reversal of fortune in regards to their health, some are willing to point to that as an example of the power of obeah.

 

Since many of you are from the states and elsewhere and might not know indepth about any of this, I do know this site has some VERY intelligent people who might be able to shed some sensible light on all of this especially Pegasus. Any thoughts? Any explanations?

 

below is a post from a Caribbean website that prompted this post:

 

 

 

A woman met a Haitian man who was not legal in the country. They started dating, and he treated her very well. He was very romantic, and everything was going well. They got married after about 6 months or less of knowing each other. While married, the man was very verbal and some physical abusive towards her. During the marriage they had one child, and the woman was filing his paper but stopped it and filed for divorced. She called immigration on him, and he was picked up and send back to Haiti. While in Haiti, the man tried contacting the lady many times but she hardly spoke to him. The man wanted to come back in the country. After few months the lady informed her mother that she is feeling something like parasites are under her skin, trying to get into her ear, belly and in her nanni. She just don't know what to do. She went to doctors and had taken all kinda of tests and everything negative, even parasites test which came back negative. The lady is not sleeping at all because these things affecting her badly. She is about to lose her well-paid government job, and her life is a mess. Now some of her friends and family are saying de Haitian man put something on her because he wants to come back in the country and also he wants to see his son. Others are saying her nerves (mental ill) is the problem. What do you all think, is this voodoo (if there is such a thing) or do you all think it is the being of mental illness?

[neverclear5]

Voodoo has had a lot of bad press. Most of our misconseptions about it come from christian missionaries who made up a lot of stuff based on european witchcraft to try and discredit it. Dolls for one, which were in fact filled with holes into which pegs were put not needles, and used to channel "healing energy" not for attacking. I wouldn't worry about voodoo doing anything or having any power. Its probably psychosematic. Try watching arachnophobia and not feeling a spider somewhere!

[Tyson]

Voodoo has had a lot of bad press. Most of our misconseptions about it come from christian missionaries who made up a lot of stuff based on european witchcraft to try and discredit it. Dolls for one, which were in fact filled with holes into which pegs were put not needles, and used to channel "healing energy" not for attacking. I wouldn't worry about voodoo doing anything or having any power. Its probably psychosematic. Try watching arachnophobia and not feeling a spider somewhere!

 

The last few sentences really made a lot of sense. Thank you.

[Mongo]

I wonder whether mental illness on some level is like a virus that seeks out a weak vessel.

 

In that sense, an (emotionally) weak person would be relatively fine under normal circumstances but when stress and superstitition comes along, the weak person begins to obsess and become fearful and so they can develop unhealthy views and behaviours.

 

This is generally how I view the virus of xtianity. The "host" or weak and vulnerable vessels of society are young people, teens and adolescents who have not fully grown up emotionally or intellectually. The "carriers", in this case are evangelists and proseletyzers. They impregnate the weaker subjects and manipulate their emotions and generate tremendous guilt until the person becomes mentally ill with self-hating religion.

 

It's really an ugly picture isn't it?

 

Mongo

[Kurari]

I think it's mostly Hollywood misrepresentation and ignorance. A lot of it sounds like just about every other religion in paying respects to the Loas, and doing rituals.

 

I think the "magic" element is an art in exploiting the mind. The mind is an extrodinarily powerful thing, and people here in the west especially discount how much effect it has on absolutely everything in our lives...from our enviroment and oppertunities to our own health. Psychosomatic illnesses for example are very, very, real. They might be caused solely by issues of the mind, but that doesn't make them any less serious or less real. If your mind and emotions are not healthy, it doesn't take much for everything else to break down for you. You cannot ignore your mind or dismiss it as inconsequential...people try to do this all the time and end up worse for ware for it.

 

People who use "black magic" are using the same tricks used in a good horror movie. Implant suggestions and half truths, play on elements that people can relate to in real life, and reinforce it as necessary then let the mind do the rest of the work to give you bad luck.

 

The woman in the example is having normal anxiety and stress symptoms but it's getting worse through suggestion because of her ex's ethnicity. She needs counseling and support, and her family and friends need good smacks upside the head.

[currentchristian]

I wonder whether mental illness on some level is like a virus that seeks out a weak vessel.

 

In that sense, an (emotionally) weak person would be relatively fine under normal circumstances but when stress and superstitition comes along, the weak person begins to obsess and become fearful and so they can develop unhealthy views and behaviours.

 

This is generally how I view the virus of xtianity. The "host" or weak and vulnerable vessels of society are young people, teens and adolescents who have not fully grown up emotionally or intellectually. The "carriers", in this case are evangelists and proseletyzers. They impregnate the weaker subjects and manipulate their emotions and generate tremendous guilt until the person becomes mentally ill with self-hating religion.

 

It's really an ugly picture isn't it?

 

Mongo

 

You raise a very interesting point here, Mongo. It does seem that the young are more susceptible to all sorts of ideas: that drugs are good, that drinking and driving is okay, that unsafe sex is fine, that dropping out of high school is a good idea, that Britney Spears really has something to say, and so on. I don't think, however, that the virus analogy is sustainable in these instances or in the instance of religion.

 

Additionally, it seems in fact that many fall away from religion as soon as they are not forced to attend services, in their teens, and remain separated from religion in their college days and early adulthood -- only to come back to their religion of origin when they become parents. The old, too, are generally more "religious" than the young.

 

-CC in MA

 

 

Try watching arachnophobia and not feeling a spider somewhere!

 

Good one! I feel spiders running up and down my legs just thinking about this movie.

 

-CC in MA

[Mongo]

You raise a very interesting point here, Mongo. It does seem that the young are more susceptible to all sorts of ideas: that drugs are good, that drinking and driving is okay, that unsafe sex is fine, that dropping out of high school is a good idea, that Britney Spears really has something to say, and so on. I don't think, however, that the virus analogy is sustainable in these instances or in the instance of religion.

 

Additionally, it seems in fact that many fall away from religion as soon as they are not forced to attend services, in their teens, and remain separated from religion in their college days and early adulthood -- only to come back to their religion of origin when they become parents. The old, too, are generally more "religious" than the young.

 

CC,

 

I see your point. I strongly suspect that you and I have been swimming in different religious pools.

 

From the perspective of my Catholic upbringing, I fully agree with you.

 

My fundamentalist (Pentecostal) background (aged 17 to 27), fundyism was a mental virus. I certainly have no desire to return to religious views now that I have kids nor will I when I am old.

 

I believe many others with a similar fundy background to mine (where coersive pursuasion is common) would agree.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Mongo

[♦ nivek ♦]

Tyson,

 

Lived in Bermuda, sailed most of the Carribs, seen religion in action of all stripes.

Seems most Islands shutdown all but the barest essentials on Sunday, even Cuba for a "day of rest and religious celebration".

 

For those practicing more non-christian religions there was always a "show" for the tourists (mostly white), then there was the more serious service for the folks who were 'true believers'.

 

Have seen some of the 'more serious' things done. Being an outsider and not 'in the know' the practices indeed looked strange and dangerous. Can see where people can be seduced into believing that the assorted ceremonies have 'power' both in temporal and flesh.

 

Rather impressive.. Much like a good ole tyme religion meeting with the 'holy rollers', a great show designed to enforce the belief that "something is happening that the witch or preacher" controls.

 

If one believes something deep and well enough, the 'critters' called up from the spells indeed can do harm or well as designed..

 

When one casts off the belief in those spirits and spooks, the practices look a lot like a hollywood production rather than something that can hurt...

 

Seen'um, and impressed by them, but can't be hurt by them...

 

kFL, marlinspike sailor