PaulQ Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 I had a little encounter with a devout catholic at work the other day. He claimed to take offense of my use of the term “Christmas.” He knows full well that I am an ex-Christian and an atheist; of that, I definitely don't beat around the bush. It went something like this: I used the term Christmas when telling him what I had bought my son for Christmas as in, “I bought my son this for Christmas.” Mr. Devout Catholic responded that I shouldn't march in someone else's parade. He used the example of the Gay Pride parade and how I wouldn't march with them. Well, as a matter of fact, I would; not because I am gay, but because showing my support for their cause in seeking equal rights is one I find just. He then went on to state how he doesn't celebrate Hanukkah, and how Jews don't celebrate Christmas, so he would prefer it if I didn't celebrate Christmas unless I was a Christian. Yes, the all too familiar ostracization. I then advised him of how Christmas was celebrated long before Christianity came along and was once a Pagan celebration. He felt the need to point out that I also wasn't a Pagan, and how the conversion of Pagans to Christians was a good thing, and reminded me that Christmas was the "Mass" of "Christ." That's when I told him that I was, in fact, an ex-Christian, and much like how the Christians picked out what they wanted out of the original Pagan tradition to create their own holiday, I did with the modern-day Christmas and felt no shame in doing so in incorporating Santa Claus and a Christmas tree. He advised me that St. Nicholas was a Christian figure, and told me I should call it something else. I then asked him if he put up a tree. He said he did. I then asked him what the religious connection was to the tree, and he replied, “It represents the wood of the cross.” To that I replied, “Wasn't the cross made out of some kind of hardwood?” That's when he exploded, telling me I sound like a know-it-all and like a complete asshole, and walked away. The air has cleared up since then, so today I mentioned to him that I had a favorite bible story to read to my family while sitting around the Christmas tree, and referred him to Jerimiah chapter 10. He wasn't familiar with it. I didn't want to ruin it for him, so he said he'd read it tonight. I thought I'd share my experience thus far with the season; from now on, I'm calling it eXmas, or Xmas for short...because I am an eX-Christian after all. I set up an artificial tree to remind me of the artificial story of Christ I once believed in. Wish me the best with dealing with these Christians this holiday season, and merry X-mas to everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 I would have told this man to mind his own fucking business. Where does he get off sharing his mean-spirited opinions about you getting a gift for your child? I mean, seriously, how petty can you get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahgrace Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 I would have told this man to mind his own fucking business. Where does he get off sharing his mean-spirited opinions about you getting a gift for your child? I mean, seriously, how petty can you get? That's pretty much EXACTLY what I was going to say. That he would talk to you like that AT ALL is shameful, but that he would talk to you like that in the workplace is downright UNACCEPTABLE. What a dick. So much for peace on earth and goodwill to all men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 And where the HELL does this asshole get off thinking that you or anybody should spend your time according to his personal preferences?? So he'd "prefer" it if you didn't celebrate Xmas, eh? What a self-important, self-righteous, controlling, small-minded git. It's nobody else's fucking business how you want to celebrate the holidays, or what you want to call them, or why. He's just being an arrogant prick. The fact that he blew up at you when he couldn't find any effective argument against you speaks volumes about his character. Jeez. I see a Fundie Catholic who needs to get a serious can o' BitchSlap in his stocking this year... I love your referring him to the Jeremiah story, btw... Although he'll probably just bypass the bit in the beginning about the tree, and move on to the Lawd-praising stuff at the end, and think it means you're admitting his god is real, or some dipshit crap like that. Anyway. Good on ya for keeping your cool around that asshole. Keep up the good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartP Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 It's a bit rich isn't it? I'd "prefer" it if he didn't call the names of the week by their pagan god names - ie: Monday = Moon day Tuesday = Tiwes day Wednesday = Wodens day Thursday = Thors day Friday = Freyas day Saturday = Saturns day Sunday = Sun day I'd prefer it if he could use some christian nomencalture and stop invading the pagan parade Idiot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 It's a bit rich isn't it? I'd "prefer" it if he didn't call the names of the week by their pagan god names - ie: Monday = Moon day Tuesday = Tiwes day Wednesday = Wodens day Thursday = Thors day Friday = Freyas day Saturday = Saturns day Sunday = Sun day I'd prefer it if he could use some christian nomencalture and stop invading the pagan parade Idiot! That punch would fall where it hurts. So far as I know, the days of the week never had Christian names, except some Christians think Sun Day means the day the Son of God rose from the dead. Just to take that idea i.e. of Sun Day one step further into the dim recesses of history, seems I saw one author who said Christianity started as another sun worshiping religion. So you're not out of ammunition, DQ, in case you want to continue the fight, which you may well not want to. There's no winning with a mentality that explodes when he gets in a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted December 9, 2006 Author Share Posted December 9, 2006 It's a bit rich isn't it? I'd "prefer" it if he didn't call the names of the week by their pagan god names - ie: Monday = Moon day Tuesday = Tiwes day Wednesday = Wodens day Thursday = Thors day Friday = Freyas day Saturday = Saturns day Sunday = Sun day I'd prefer it if he could use some christian nomencalture and stop invading the pagan parade Idiot! Yes, well, he's liable to come back and tell me that since I don't believe in anything, I'm also not a Pagan and so shouldn't be making such a request. As hypocritical as that would be of me, do bear in mind that this is the same guy who tells us younger parents we ought to be teaching our children abstenance before marriage and that sex should be only for marriage...yet he himself is divorced and talks about his "Weekend Conquests" all the time. I think hypocrisy is a requirement for being a good Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 It's a bit rich isn't it? I'd "prefer" it if he didn't call the names of the week by their pagan god names - ie: Monday = Moon day Tuesday = Tiwes day Wednesday = Wodens day Thursday = Thors day Friday = Freyas day Saturday = Saturns day Sunday = Sun day I'd prefer it if he could use some christian nomencalture and stop invading the pagan parade Idiot! Yes, well, he's liable to come back and tell me that since I don't believe in anything, I'm also not a Pagan and so shouldn't be making such a request. As hypocritical as that would be of me, do bear in mind that this is the same guy who tells us younger parents we ought to be teaching our children abstenance before marriage and that sex should be only for marriage...yet he himself is divorced and talks about his "Weekend Conquests" all the time. I think hypocrisy is a requirement for being a good Catholic. This guy does not sound like a "good" Catholic, no matter how you interpret the word. He may be Catholic but I would reserve the descriptor "good" for people who actually are good. His "Weekend Conquests" do not sound like something "good" Catholics do, either. I understand the Catholic Church does not condone that kind of behaviour. Maybe he's just taking his guilt out on you. You have the right not to respond to his admonitions, or to say something to the effect of: You live your life and I'll live mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted December 9, 2006 Author Share Posted December 9, 2006 He's actually a pretty decent guy most of the time. I think he just had a bad weekend. His 18 year old son, who's been in and out of jail and who has stolen from his own father, has moved back in. His latest date didn't work out. His older 21 year old son tells him he's too controlling. Quite frankly, I think he assumes I know far less than I actually do and wasn't quite prepared for my response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 StewartP fantastic reply! Until I heard that he had a bad weekend, my prick-o-meter was redlining. After hearing that, I might be tempted to ask him what's wrong and giving him a chance to vent. Sometimes, one can gain an ally by listening to an opponent. Sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 Yesterday, this fellow advised me that I mis-interpreted Jerimiah 10 and that I ought to re-read it. He insisted it only had to do with idol worship, and not Christmas trees, and told me the reason why I thought it did was because I saw mention of silver and gold and thought, "Silver and gold, silver and gold" (the song in that cheezy Rudolph the Rednosed Reindeer made-for-TV movie). I told him how it specifically makes mention of a tree chopped down and then erected upright like a palm and secured with nails, decked with silver and gold, but he continued to insist that that's not what it was about. At that point, I advised him that I wasn't the only person who drew this conclusion; that certain sects of the Christian cult had arrived at this conclusion and are against putting up trees. He was unable to come up with a response to that. Later, we were talking about the Christmas dinner at work and what we were going to order. I'm going for the Turkey dinner with stuffing, mashed potatoes and peas. Along comes Mr. Cathoholic, proclaiming that "Most of us are going to celebrate Christmas; others are going to celebrate whatever it is they don't believe in." I told him that some of us just want to celebrate Christmas and have all the fun without any of the unnecessary guilt. He responded that I could go to hell if I didn't believe and asked me if I really wanted to go there. To that I responded, "Well, that's where all the cool people go, right? Like Carl Sagan and Douglas Adams? I think hell would be the place to be if it really exists." He then told me how ignorant I was to say that, how it's actually a terrible place. I asked him if he actually had seen this hell place. He couldn't really answer that and avoided it by saying, "Well, you do have a choice." To that I said, "Some choice! That's like someone holding a gun to your head and saying, if you don't believe, you're going to suffer so you'd better believe! I wouldn't want to be anywhere near anyone or anything that thinks like that!" At that, he simply shrugged, when another person at the table mentioned that's exactly what missionary men did; they shot people who didn't believe in what they believed in. This made Mr. Cathoholic uncomfortable. He continues to remind me of how ignorant I am, how I'm not interpreting things properly. He gets quite upset when he can't come up with a response. I'm actually finding it somewhat entertaining. I can't wait to see what he comes up with today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 I forgot to add, I also mentioned in Mr. Cathoholics presence that the day was "Moons day," and that we get paid on "Thor's day." I noted how, although none of us were pagans, we still refer to the days of the week as pagan gods. Mr. Cathoholic was visably uncomfortable when I mentioned this. I doubt he will say anything further about me referring to the holiday as Christmas, though I do like eX-mas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I would have told this man to mind his own fucking business. Where does he get off sharing his mean-spirited opinions about you getting a gift for your child? I mean, seriously, how petty can you get? Well-put - 'zackly what I'd have said. But this is the legacy of Xianity, and the superiority complexes it encourages. The Catholic probably feels very good about himself when he listens to his church tell him how favored he is in Gawd's eyes, and how he's part of a special club by being a believer and so forth. Probably also buys wholesale the "persecuted Xian" complex and feels he has to defend his monster of a god and cult at every turn. Nonetheless, a petty asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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