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Goodbye


SkepticOfBible
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I believe in one's life, there have always been major turning points that shape one's destiny and personality. My High School years taught me how to live with people who come from a different background then myself. Those years layed the basic foundation of my tolerant attitude and prepared me to live in any environment that is different than my home country. In those extremely tough times, my beliefs in G-d truly helped me and got me through. Whether or not, I was believing in the real God of the universe or just alter ego of myself, I don't know yet, but it sure was a big help.

 

2 years ago I started yet another phase of my life. The journey towards skepticism, which ultimately redefined my spirituality. It is during this time I learned the true meaning of tolerance, and this time it helped me define who I am internally. I finally uncovered answers to many questions I had about human pychology, history , anthropology and religion. And I do have to thank one particular group of people who helped me start to ask these questions– Fundamentalist Christians. Had they not asked the right questions and presented me with their intolerant/somethimes idiotic answers to those question, I would have never looked into the real answers. Today, I may not be a expert or anything, but I am glad I know more about the Christian religion than most of my Christian friends. Atleast I know what I am rejecting. So even after my time consuming research I am somehow wrong and the fundies is right, I don't really care. I rather suffer with my family and with the Jews who died in the holocaust, then to share my eternal "bliss" with the Nazi Christians who have a free pass to heaven because they are covered by the "blood of the lamb".

 

Along this path, freethinkers helped me a great deal in answering a lot of question which Christians dared not answered. This particular forum felt like going to School to relearn about real science , history /philosophy and pretty much became my trainng ground for my debating skills. You guys really taught me a lot and motivated me to research more and more. Even though I never went through the Christian experiance, I thank you all to let allowing come aboard and giving me respect and honor. In a place where I am surrounded by the epitome of human irrationality, this place became a safe haven for my mind.

 

However the website which influenced me the greatest would the "Agnostic Review of Christianity". It gave me answers which I think goes to the core of Christianity, ie whether or not Jesus was the Jewish Messiah. Sadly in the skeptical world there are very few authors who debate from this point of view. It is definately the most logical place to start, yet it is the most overlooked topic.

 

I later on discovered that a lot of the answers on that website had Jewish origins. Offcourse I do believe the author of that website, did do a lot of research of his own, but the Jewish rebuttal answered lot more further aspect that was not answered there, such as regarding the correct translation of certain verses.

 

In doing so, I was very honoured to learn a bit about the Jewish Worldview, and found it to be very refreshing and positive. It was very uplifting to know to that Jews don't share some of the horrible, illogical and unbiblical aspects of fundamentalist Christianity such as orginal sin, eternal torture or "G-d doesn't care about works, since he demands perfection, which is possible with only one way".

 

I know many of you strongly dislike the content of the Jewish scriptures, however the interpretation of those same scriptures by the Jews are very different than those of fundies. If there is ever course of Biblical polemics against Christianity, then the Jews definately have a PHD on it, since their tradition work back far further than us. IMHO, very few skeptics can come close to that sort of knowledge

 

Remember it is not the Jews who told you believe in their scriptures, but Christians, after they had hijacked and created it false lies about it and their original owners. They pretty much invented a problem, which does not exists in the Jewish Scriptures, and tried to present a solution in the form of Jesus. In fact, one thing I learnt about Judaism is that that Jews are told specifically not to proysletise, and that according to Jewish law, a Jew should atleast try 3 times to convince a potential convert to NOT to become a Jew. It's not because they have a superior complex or keep their secret society, but rather they humbly acknowledge that it is difficult path, and that according to their theology, Judaism is not the only path to their G-d, when it comes to non-Jews. Contary to what the Christian scriptures lie about, the door has always been for non-Jews to join their religion.

 

If you start interacting with Jews, one can learn that very scriptures that Christians shove down our throat, actually works against them. Like I always said the best rebuttal to Christianity lies right there in the first half of the Christian bible, and I honestly believe the Jews can help you refine your answers to fundie Christians. Jewish forums are definately a good resource to verify the some of the claims of the Christians, such as meaning of a hebrew word, exegesis of a certain passage or a Jewish law.

 

And no I am not becoming a Jew, but I am just respecting their knowledge. Afterall many of them bore the brunt of the Christian "love" because of this knowledge. I just like their theology and their attitude towards life, and I just want to share some things I learnt from them. I still percieve Judaism as man-made institution rather than a divine one, but just because it is man-made, doesn't mean it is crap.

 

However there is a dark side of this journey whereby I am partially the problem. I have a addiction for knowledge. That sounds strange, doesn't it. When I was young, I have always had this weird craving of knowing everything about a particular topic, ie if I took a liking for Star Wars, I needed to know every knitty gritty detail of that topic, which most people would not care about. In other words, I had a nerdy aspect to me. However in respect to the Christian issue, I have realised it just doesn't end. No matter how much I dig into deeper and deeper, the information does not end, since it is multi faceted issue, with tons of opinions and facts. With online debating this problem is further magnified, since every time I hear a new claim, I start researching about it. When I am off my computer, my mind keeps thinking about what should I say in my next post. Offcourse, forum aspects consumes a lot of my time, in writing the intelligent response itself, especially if you don't want to sound like an idiot.

 

Also after debating after so long, my rebuttals are becoming so repetitive and I am tired of answering the same old assertions and rhetorics of fundies. It is both physically and mentally exhausting.

 

There is also a slight danger to my career, since as you some of know, I am living in a fundamentalist area and most of my collegue are fundie christians. So pretty much I am surrounded by fundies. My superboss is the country's top evangelist, and my workplace is literally inside a bible college/camp. Luckily, they are not your typical obnoxious fundies, and are quite nice natured, but I fear if they find out that I am engaging in Biblical polemics, they might not look at me positively nor do I wish to find out the limits of their patience. Sometimes ignorance is truly bliss. The last reason why I want to be thrown out of my job, would be because someone percieves me as "serving the devil". I rather behave like a ignorant fool in their midst than a skeptic who knows more about their sect of religion than they do.

 

I would therefore want to focus the addictive nature of mine towards my career and family, and from today onwards I am quiting the debating arena. I am going back to my home country, where I would not be able to access the internet so frequently, so this is a good G-d-given oppurtunity to get over my addictions.

 

I would however I want to make a exception to my self-imposed exile. Uptill now, I believe I know enough about Christianity , Judaism, and Tanach to rebut any imposing Missionary. I would try to avoid a arguement as much as possible, but sometimes you are forced to respond due to special circumstances, eg if your family member is that missionary. I may hear some unique claim for which I may not know the answer or are unable to find a answer on the internet, such as a meaning of a certain hebrew word, exegesis of a unfamilar passage, something about history or science. It is in those cases, that I would pose my specific questions here. So I hope you would help me with that answer even then.

 

I don't know where would my spiritual jouney would lead me from here, but I believe I have learned the skills to use the tools of knowledge, logic and rationality adequetly and effectively, so that I would be able to defend my loved ones and me, from all sorts of spiritual/philosphical nonsense that exists or will appear in this world or which seeks to trap

 

I would like to thank all the admins at ex-christian.net who gave me oppurtunity to stay on this forum.

 

Crazy Tiger, Mythra, MWC, Rhemtron, Antlerman, Asimov, Bruce Thuriaz(and all the other skeptics who I interacted with). your answers were always informative and intelligent.I would always cherish the love and kindness that some of you showed towards me, during my time here. You guys are truly a light against the darkness of fundamentalist Christianity.

 

Amada, and Open minded, your theology and approach to the christian message is quite unique, and it was very refreshing to learn about it. I wish there were more christians like you.

 

And all those fundie Christains that I debated with, I thank you for the oppurtunity in order to debate with you. I know I would never come to your side, and that we greatly disagree about our interpretation of the evidence on hand, but I would like this oppurnity to say I am sorry if I at any point threw any ad hominums at you. Sadly none of you had the balls to take up my challenge. Oh well, I wish that was pinned.

 

Anybody who wishes to keep contact with me with either MSN or email, can PM me. I would love to stay in contact.

 

At the end, I would like to reaffirm my belief, that there is a G-d who created the universe, and keeps us in balance. I still mediate and pray to God, in times of trouble and success. I don't know why but it has worked for and I do have couple of answered prayed in my life. I completely realise this is a subjective interpretation, and hence this issue is not up for discussion. Call it irrationality or whatever, but I need a little bit dose of irrationality to keep me sane in this beautiful and crazy world.

 

I would end this by sharing my favourite prayer with you all. I have no idea who wrote it, but everytime I read it, I feel connected to it and in a way it describes my attitude towards life.

 

May I be no man's enemy, and may I be the friend of that which is eternal and abides.

May I never devise evil against any man; if any devise evil against me,

may I escape without the need of hurting him.

May I love, seek, and attain only that which is good.

May I wish for all men's happiness and envy none.

When I have done or said what is wrong, may I never wait for the rebuke of others, but always rebuke myself until I make amends.

May I win no victory that harms neither me or my opponent.

May I reconcile friends who are wroth with one another.

May I, to the extent of my power, give all needful help to all who are in want.

May I never fail a friend in danger.

May I respect myself.

May I always keep tame that which rages within me.

May I never discuss who is wicked and what wicked things he has done, but know good men and follow in their footsteps.

 

I wish you all well on your individual spritual journey.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays

 

Goodbye

 

SkepticOfBible

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Why does that sound like an Oscar acceptance speech? ;) Just kidding.

 

Best wishes on your journey. :)

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I wish you the best that your intentions towards others find its way to you always. You're insight, knowledge, and wisdom are a valuable thing and I trust they will serve you and yours well in your pursuit of life. I'm greatly honored and humbled that you would mention my name in your saying farewell to us as you leave to new territory in you life.

 

The very best to you with hopes our paths meet again,

 

Keith

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Your posts and analyses were some of the finest I've ever read, Skeptic. They've been an influence and a help to me on my road out of Xianity and into freedom.

 

This site has been improved greatly by your participation, and I do hope you return soon.

 

Best of luck on your way! :wave:

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Go thee in peace, live a life of happiness, and feel free to return whenever you want to. :3:

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I'm honored and surprised to see myself mentioned by name in your post. I felt that I learned from you if anything and for that I thank you. :thanks: I also have a lot of respect for your arguments and opinions. I will personally miss them. I'm actually at a loss for words. ;)

 

Best of luck to you and I do hope to see you around from time to time. :beer:

 

mwc

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SoB,

 

Not gonna wish you "luck", nor will I say that whatever lies ahead of you will be fun, easy, or pleasant.

 

Find the good in what and wherever you go and the same with the companions that your path finds for you.

 

Be prepared to apply the hard heel and the ridge hand to those who insult you an would cause you harm or injury.

 

Prepare more to give a hand to those who ask of you.

 

Your presence here has been for the good, both for myself and our assembled Users and Posters.

Thank you for taking the time to be part of this Community and share as much you've grown.

 

Giving more than taking is the hallmark of a Man who has found his place, one where he can find the time to donate to the things he finds right to do.

 

If you find the enlightened place in your future travels, please return here when you might, let us know.

 

I never offer "Peace" as a parting thought, as that is an elusive thing in my world. However I do wish for you a good clean unhampered clear walk towards your destiny.

 

Thank you for being part of all of us.

 

kevinL

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Thanks for the kind words, SoB (hehe...SOB), I always enjoyed your input into the discussions that we all had and I can sit back with the confidence that you will not resort to mindless babbling while frothing Jesus Juice at the mouth.

 

Even though I disagree with your irrationality, I'm glad that you're happy and enjoy life, that is the most I could ask for anyone. As long as you don't feel obligated to serve or sacrifice yourself for anyone or any being, I wish you the best.

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Skeptic - Go in Peace - I will miss you.

 

I'll miss your ability to hold the fundy theology to concrete details that they would rather forget. I've watched in amazement as you keep bringing them back to the details of their theology. I could never remember all the details you do. You have my complete admiration.

 

Thank you for mentioning me in your good-bye - the admiration goes both ways.

 

And above all - thank you for your ending prayer. I just have one question. Is it a Jewish prayer. It is beautiful and I'd love to use it in our interfaith/meditative service.

 

In Peace:

 

O_M

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Skeptic,

 

I, like all of us who have read your thoughts, have a deep respect for you.. Watching you debate with Fundamentalists was a wonderful adventure and much learning was gained. Aside from those interactions, reading your posts on other subjects, it is apparent that you have a profound philosphy and ideology. It was a pleasure to be able to visit the inner workings of your mind.

 

Please come back to enlighten us with your wisdom from time to time.

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Take care, my friend. We'll definitely miss you here. I was always surprised at the depth of your knowledge, and your last post is no exception.

 

All the best.

 

mythra

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Skeptic, goodbye and is the superboss Brian Tamaki as seeing that you live in the same country as me?

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Bye Skeptic good seeing you in debates. These moments when someone goes is always sad. :HappyCry::HappyCry::HappyCry:

Good luck in the world Difficult times will lie ahead soon we must choose between what is right and what is easy. Best of wishes you brought lots of knowlege to this place.

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SoB, I hate to see you go! Best wishes to you and thank you for bringing out a greater understanding of Judaism.

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SkepticOfBible, I wish you happiness wherever you may find it, success in your truth-seeking journey, and peace in life's circumstances, both great and small.

 

Thank you for the wonderful support you have been to this community. We will miss you here but you will be remembered with much fondness.

 

All the best to you,

Reach

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  • 4 months later...

i know it's late... by months, but i wish you the best of luck. i had to leave and stop debating on this much loved forum for the same reasons. im also honored you mentioned me. you were the first person on this forum that i talked to... in part for our same love for "Agnostic Review of Christianity".

 

-rhem

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I wish you the best on your next adventure; be sure to check in one in a while and say hi. I'm sure the Mods will keep your ID and Avatar (love it) warm inbetween visits.

 

It so happens that many of the threads that intersted me, were not ones that you posted on so we didn't interact much.

 

However, on the occasion that I read your comments on a subject, I very quickly noticed two things.

 

You are very knowledgable in areas that few people are able to contribute intellegently and secondly, that you did so at a very high level of mental discipline.

 

For that reason I visited the sites listed in your Signature and I have learned from you. You can be proud of your contribution here.

 

You will be missed.

 

Mongo

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  • 2 months later...

I really,really like your article,especially a challenge for christian

I saw your post at the messianic(jewish) forum.

For that reason I visited the sites listed in your Signature and I have learned from you. You can be proud of your contribution here.

I do that too.I hope I can see more of your articles

Au revoir

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Thanks for you response guys and I am still overwhelmed. I got a PM from "A Skeptical Believer" mentioning about response to this thread.

 

A few personal updates for all.

 

1)So I got contacted by a fundie recently who tried to convince me with his "evidence' aka generic propaganda. Glad to know I could still rebut his assertions by using some of the debating skills.

 

2)I got out of that Christian company and now I finally am in a proper studio. So glad to know that you can say "fuck" in the office when you are frustrated, and people would not ostracise you for it. The real world is truly wonderful. In short - better pay, better company and best of all...I have move to the city now.....Thank God.(Not the Christian one offcourse)

 

Thanks once again

 

Cya

 

Skeptic

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