The Unforgivable Sin And The Holy Spirit.

[Jubilant]

*tee hee*

 

**giggles**

 

[Jubilant]

You say your not a Christian for the above reasons........all intellectual reasons. Christianity is and never has been about intellectual ideas and concepts. Its not even a religion. Its about a relationship. A personal relationship with God.

 

It is most certainly to a religion. Do you pray? Do you take communion? Did you repent? Were you baptised? Do you go to church on Sunday/Saturday? Do you celebrate the traditional Christian holidays?

 

Relationship my foot. If I was in a relationship with God, I'd rather be single because then I'd be minus the stupidity of praying into the air and bawling while singing to a non-existent deity.

 

But I dont really believe that any of you (if you look into your hearts) will be happier or more satisfied as you seek for the truth.

 

I found the truth when I read the bible and then discarded it and christianity from my life forever. :-)

[NotBlinded]

Don't tell me that you don't judge Christianity by Christians......just have a look at the headings in you're satire and humor section (I was on the floor laughing)

Well, I happen to think that Christianity as it is now is nothing like what it should be or was. I find much insight and wisdom in the Christian myth just as with any other. I find much hatred and exclusive thought in many Christians. They are the same type of people that Jesus despised. This is what I would curse if I felt inclined. Not the holy spirit, but the false spirit that many Christians carry with them as something that belongs to them and somehow makes them special above others.

 

I will mock them and find it amusing that they take words of wisdom and turn them into a literal garbage heap that is not fit for the sickest cockroach.

 

If the Christian religion is what most of the followers claim it to be, then it is a twisted religion indeed. Is it any wonder that we find it appalling as it is?

[Shawn]

Why would I be kidding you...are you so far up your own intellectual ass?

 

Careful, Mike - he'll smite you

 

 

You have to wonder about a Christian who has a naked angel for an avatar. Oh, it's just one of those angels from Genesis 6, the ones with penises who had sex with mortal women. *poof* tah dah!

[Chris de Vidal]

Forgive me for not reading all of the history. I want to directly reply to the original post.

 

Ok, I have been thinking about this lately.

 

As have I!

 

 

1. The ‘unforgivable sin’, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Why is it that the general teaching is that if you are worried you did it, you didn’t do it? I have personally known people who spoke against ‘Him’ repeatedly, and then went back and all was forgiven (Bible God loved them again, they were back witnessing, ect…). Why is this?

 

I have carefully studied both the Matthew and Mark accounts of Jesus speaking about this sin because I've met someone who thinks he did it, and rather answer him in ignorance, "well I think it's this," I just answered him, "I don't know." Instead, I've been ministering to him, but in the mean time I've studied the matter for myself.

 

You've mentioned one general teaching that I think is somewhat true, based upon the Scriptures.

 

There is another general teaching, namely that this blasphemy is not a singular, shouting, worded event but a lifetime of resistance. I don't see that anywhere in Scripture.

 

The key to understanding this doctrine, for me, was found here:

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary...nst_the_Spirit/

 

I've carefully thought about Piper's arguments for about a month now, and I think he's right.

 

In a nutshell, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is indeed a singular, shouting, worded-type event, not a lifestyle of resistance. I think that's why you see in Matthew 12:32 it says that the sin will not be forgiven in this age. If it were a lifetime of resistance, it would only be unforgiven in the next age, but that's not what Matthew recorded. So I think it must be a singular event.

 

So, the question is, is it that 99% of sins will be forgiven but this one? Or are 100% of sins forgivable and there is perhaps another explanation?

 

A careful study of Mark 3:28 and Matthew 12:31 say ALL sins and blasphemies, and I think ALL means ALL.

 

So how is it that this sin becomes unforgivable?

 

Mark talks alot about the need to repent. Acts and other books say that repentance is a gift.

 

The idea is, Piper says (and I now agree), that IF you can repent of your blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, you will be forgiven. The problem with this particular sin is it SO grieves the Holy Spirit that He never, ever, ever will grant you the gift of repentance. Thus, you will never, ever, ever be forgiven.

 

Makes sense to me, and it harmonizes all of Scripture together very well. Granted, it's a bit awkward to see in the text (there's no secret this is one of the "hard sayings" of Jesus), but I think it's there, given the broader context.

 

I think the general teaching "if you're worried you've done it, you haven't done it" is somewhat true. I would prefer to say that if you're worried, it's not likely you've done it, because "godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation." (2 Corinthians 7:10 ESV) But that's no guarantee. What if your sorrow isn't godly? Recall that Esau "found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears." (Hebrews 12:17 ESV) (I do believe that is speaking about salvation but I won't explain why right now. Write me, Chris (AT) deVidal (DOT) tv if you have questions.)

 

 

So how about the second part of your question, where you see people doing this and then repented?

 

That's where I have been giving my friend hope.

 

John Calvin spoke on this subject:

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/calvin/bk3ch...l#twentytwo.htm

 

He said that ignorance + blasphemy = forgivable. He quoted Paul:

"I thank him who has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he judged me faithful, appointing me to his service, though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost." (1 Timothy 1:12-15 ESV)

 

(No, Paul, you were not the foremost sinner, I am. I know more of my sins than I could ever point the finger at Paul or you ex-Christians or anyone else, therefore I am the foremost sinner I know.)

 

 

The reason I think my friend blasphemed in ignorance is because he was sold a half-truth when he heard the gospel for the first time. He was told being a Christian would give him a better life, that he'd have peace and joy. But when things didn't turn out like he was promised, he threw off Christ and called the Holy Spirit a demon.

 

He was told a half-truth. And he was a false convert. He wasn't an ex-Christian because he wasn't a Christian in the first place.

 

If you're an ex-Christian today because someone told you that life would be peace and joy and abundant living but things didn't turn out that way, you were told a half-truth. I do understand why you would reject Christ when things got hard, because you've not been shown the whole Christ.

 

Of course, my life as a born-again believer is indeed all of those things (peace/joy/abundant living), but Jesus promised persecution and testing by the hand of Satan!

 

Why did Paul and 11 of the apostles die as martyrs if God had promised a better life for them? Did God lie or is there another way to interpret those promises? Where was the abundant life today's modern gospel preachers would have promised Paul? Tell Paul that "God has a wonderful plan for your life" while he's getting his fifth 39-count flogging or being stoned with lethal dog-sized boulders.

 

Tell those early evangelists to Japan in the 1500s that "God has a wonderful plan for your life" while they are crucified upside down at the beach in low tide. Wonderful plan, yeah. Look to your left and see your wife and child suffering with you, with the tide lapping around your ears. So much for that wonderful plan, mister evangelist.

 

Tell that 10-year-old who was shot in the face by muslims because he said, "Please don't kill me! I will not renounce Christ, but please don't kill me!" Tell him God has a wonderful plan for your life.

 

"Seven youths beat Pastor Robert Kennedy of Bangalore in Karnataka state on Sunday (January 7), after asking him to 'pray for a sick friend.' The pastor required 16 stitches to his head and back after the assault." Hey pastor, God has a wonderful plan for your life!

 

Tell the 50,000 North Korean Christians in concentration camps about this wonderful plan while they're being executed slowly with starvation.

 

Wonderful plan. Indeed.

 

 

My friend Ming came to Christ for the wrong reasons. He came for happiness when he should have come for righteousness! Ming needed to be forgiven of the prostitutes, the fantasies, the stealing, the lying, the hate (which God sees as murder, Matthew 5:21,22), and yes even the blasphemies. Ming needed FORGIVENESS, and He didn't come to Christ for that.

 

Neither did I. I was a false convert for 15 years. An "ex-Christian," you might say, but not really a Christian in the first place. Oh I worshipped with joy and spoke in tongues. I even evangelized door-to-door, but I think it was because I loved people, not Christ. I wanted everyone to have that cool place called heaven because I loved them. But if you would have asked me if I thought I was a good person, I would have said, "yeah." If you'd have asked me if it was NECESSARY for Christ to die for me, I probably (if I were being honest that day), would have told you, "no. I'm glad He died for murderers and rapists, but what does that have to do with me?" I didn't understand that one lie makes you a liar, that one hateful thought makes you a murderer in God's eyes, that one act of lust makes you an adulterer in God's eyes. God's standard of righteousness is perfection. And the only hope of getting that perfection, for a guy like me who'd already blown it, is getting Jesus' perfection.

 

 

So I think there is hope for Ming. I don't think he knew precisely what he was rejecting.

 

Today, I would know what I would be rejecting, if I were to blaspheme the Holy Spirit in my future. I have actually experienced the forgiveness of God, and for me to reject that and blaspheme the Holy Spirit I believe would put me into unforgiveness land. I know precisely what I'd be giving up. I'd have full knowledge that the Holy Spirit is wonderful but I reject Him anyway.

 

This should give hope to those of you who are worried you've actually done "the deed." The modern feel-good gospel is EVERYWHERE. NO ONE, it seems, is preaching the need for righteousness. "Here, pray this prayer, say this voodoo chant that doesn't really mean anything to you and you will certainly be given a better life, and what a wonderful afterlife!" And so thousands of false converts are created with zero sense of personal need for the savior (like I was, for 15 years), and they either slump through life with no visible external difference between them and their atheist neighbor, and we call them "carnal Christians," or they give up Christ, blaspheme the Holy Spirit, and we call them "backsliders." How can we be certain they ever slid forward in the first place?

 

And this is happening in America by the millions!

 

 

In summary, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit does seem to be a singular event, not a lifetime of resistance, and I believe that when it's done in ignorance, there is still the possibility that the Holy Spirit will grant someone repentance.

 

I've noticed this is a common topic on these message boards, so I hope this is helpful.

 

 

I wish I could spend much time here discussing this more, but I predict that I won't be able to. I just popped in this evening because I had some time. If there is something burning you have to tell me, please drop a line: Chris (AT) deVidal (DOT) tv.

[Mike D]

The problem with this particular sin is it SO grieves the Holy Spirit that He never, ever, ever will grant you the gift of repentance.

The holy spirit is a boy?

 

[Poonis]

I asume you're not one of them! By the way, if you're going to use big words like extraordinary, try to spell it properly.

 

The first person that resorts to critiquing grammar loses the debate because it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, especially when not accompanied by anything to support his/her position.

[Skankboy]

The idea is, Piper says (and I now agree), that IF you can repent of your blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, you will be forgiven. The problem with this particular sin is it SO grieves the Holy Spirit that He never, ever, ever will grant you the gift of repentance. Thus, you will never, ever, ever be forgiven.

 

Holy cognative dissonance batman! You do realize you say one thing here and then totally contradict it in the second half? And somehow this "harmonizes nicely"?

 

So I can be forgiven, but the holy spirit wont? ALL sins will be forgiven, except this one won't be, not because it can't be forgiven, but because the holy spirit wont?

[Poonis]

So I can be forgiven, but the holy spirit wont? ALL sins will be forgiven, except this one won't be, not because it can't be forgiven, but because the holy spirit wont?

 

Gods are sadistic motherfuckers, aren't they?

[Antlerman]

Neither did I. I was a false convert for 15 years. An "ex-Christian," you might say, but not really a Christian in the first place. Oh I worshipped with joy and spoke in tongues. I even evangelized door-to-door, but I think it was because I loved people, not Christ. I wanted everyone to have that cool place called heaven because I loved them. But if you would have asked me if I thought I was a good person, I would have said, "yeah." If you'd have asked me if it was NECESSARY for Christ to die for me, I probably (if I were being honest that day), would have told you, "no. I'm glad He died for murderers and rapists, but what does that have to do with me?" I didn't understand that one lie makes you a liar, that one hateful thought makes you a murderer in God's eyes, that one act of lust makes you an adulterer in God's eyes. God's standard of righteousness is perfection. And the only hope of getting that perfection, for a guy like me who'd already blown it, is getting Jesus' perfection.

So I see you're still steeped in your cult down there Chris. Of all the Christians who come to share the good news with us True ExChristians ™, you always seemed the most detached from reality from all others. Problem life, turns to twisted Christian cult to try to hang on to some sense of connection with yourself. Yours is not a Christian belief, it's something far more twisted and insideous. It just uses all the Bible language, but how it applies it, at least certainly in your life is outside the realm of even the most dogmatic of fundi preachers.

 

What you need isn't Jesus Chris. You need help. Then once you've opened those wounds that have scared your mind and begun to heal, then you can explore faith if it still has value for you then. You need a deprogrammer.

 

BTW, I hope you are no longer disciplining your children for God with systematic physical hittings as prescribed by your cult's reading of scripture. That whole thing still sickens my heart.

[NotBlinded]

>snip<

 

I didn't understand that one lie makes you a liar, that one hateful thought makes you a murderer in God's eyes, that one act of lust makes you an adulterer in God's eyes.

Oh...so God wants you to tell the murderer chasing your child where you took her. Or your God wants you to tell the truth to your Grandmother with Alzheimer's that the lady she sees outside isn't really there so you can take away all her comfort and cause great anxiety because in her mind, the lady is really there.

 

You are one sick puppy if you really think like that.

 

The words you wrote there are lies Chris and you should be ashamed for limiting God's understanding of human nature. Shame on you...

[mwc]

I have carefully studied both the Matthew and Mark accounts of Jesus speaking about this sin because I've met someone who thinks he did it, and rather answer him in ignorance, "well I think it's this," I just answered him, "I don't know." Instead, I've been ministering to him, but in the mean time I've studied the matter for myself.

Good for you! But the inference now is, since you're answering here, is that you're answering us in ignorance...or are you ministering to us? What's the difference exactly?

 

The key to understanding this doctrine, for me, was found here:

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary...nst_the_Spirit/

 

I've carefully thought about Piper's arguments for about a month now, and I think he's right.

You know what's funny? When I have a question about the bible I tend to look for the answer in...get ready...THE BIBLE. Not some 3rd party commentator. I READ the bible. I use MY MIND. The ANSWER becomes CLEAR. But that's just me I guess.

 

So how is it that this sin becomes unforgivable?

 

Mark talks alot about the need to repent. Acts and other books say that repentance is a gift.

 

The idea is, Piper says (and I now agree), that IF you can repent of your blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, you will be forgiven. The problem with this particular sin is it SO grieves the Holy Spirit that He never, ever, ever will grant you the gift of repentance. Thus, you will never, ever, ever be forgiven.

 

Makes sense to me, and it harmonizes all of Scripture together very well. Granted, it's a bit awkward to see in the text (there's no secret this is one of the "hard sayings" of Jesus), but I think it's there, given the broader context.

So, we have a theological contradiction. Someone comes up with a harmonization. All hail the harmonization. "Makes sense to me" raves Chris de Vidal (apologist on Ex-Christian.Net Forums)! The problem is that harmonizations of the gospels were not looked upon kindly, and yet, this is just another example of how they are a "must" for the doctrine to make any sense (major examples would be the nativity and the passion and resurrection).

 

Also, the "hard sayings" of jesus had to do with his pagan introduction of eating the flesh and blood of a human being. Something a Jew would find to be a "hard saying" at the very least. I have to admit that if I were at some meeting and someone whipped out that idea on me I'd probably walk away too...with a lot harsher things to say than that. If you want to stick around and "play eat" your host then go right ahead. It sounds crazy when put like that though, now doesn't it? I would hope so.

 

(No, Paul, you were not the foremost sinner, I am. I know more of my sins than I could ever point the finger at Paul or you ex-Christians or anyone else, therefore I am the foremost sinner I know.)

No! No! I'm the biggest sinner! And I'm the most humble for saying I'm the biggest sinner! Me! I am! I'm sinning right now (but in a humble way)!

 

The reason I think my friend blasphemed in ignorance is because he was sold a half-truth when he heard the gospel for the first time. He was told being a Christian would give him a better life, that he'd have peace and joy. But when things didn't turn out like he was promised, he threw off Christ and called the Holy Spirit a demon.

 

He was told a half-truth. And he was a false convert. He wasn't an ex-Christian because he wasn't a Christian in the first place.

 

If you're an ex-Christian today because someone told you that life would be peace and joy and abundant living but things didn't turn out that way, you were told a half-truth. I do understand why you would reject Christ when things got hard, because you've not been shown the whole Christ.

 

Of course, my life as a born-again believer is indeed all of those things (peace/joy/abundant living), but Jesus promised persecution and testing by the hand of Satan!

Your friend called the HS a demon?! Oh my, oh my! It's obvious he wasn't sold a half-truth but rather a half-lie...which is so much worse I would think because it has the word "lie" in it...so, yes, a half-lie indeed. Truly he was never a TRUE Christian. It's important that you pointed that out. Damn you Satan! (You can't see but I'm shaking my fist in anger at the floor...Hell's down there you know).

 

Thankfully, you do understand why we all bailed on the religion that is Christianity. We were sold rainbows and puppies but when that didn't materialize we rejected the whole thing as false. We're "cut and runners." I personally quit...and this is hard to admit but since you truly understand...I went outside and the temperature was slightly different than what was predicted by the weatherman on the news. I prayed and prayed but yet the two numbers never, ever, aligned. The baby Jesus had failed me and I could not reconcile my beliefs any longer. I cursed the Holy Spirit and embraced my wanton lifestyle of homosexuality, drugs, incest, bestiality and a few things I think I may have invented. Later that night when I went to sleep I realized that I had gotten the dates wrong and it wasn't the baby Jesus that had erred but it was my own selfish human desires that had blinded me. Sadly, I had already cursed the Holy Spirit, and I was forever lost, since, as you had said, I had hurt the Holy Spirit's feelings and he refuses to forgive me. My only solace is that I can blame Satan for tricking me into not turning over my calendar page that fateful day and therefore he will share some of the blame. I think most of the people that go apostate share a very similar experience to my own.

 

Why did Paul and 11 of the apostles die as martyrs if God had promised a better life for them? Did God lie or is there another way to interpret those promises? Where was the abundant life today's modern gospel preachers would have promised Paul? Tell Paul that "God has a wonderful plan for your life" while he's getting his fifth 39-count flogging or being stoned with lethal dog-sized boulders.

Why did they martyr themselves? Because that's what the legends say they did? Am I close? I think I am. Considering, for example, I know of two death stories for Paul (one in Rome and another "in the west"...possibly Spain) it's pretty hard to take their deaths too seriously. Also, the 40 lashes was a rule, but do you think it was magical? That you could live to 39 but at 40 you dropped dead each time and each person? Finally, one "dog-sized" boulder to the head is enough to kill anyone unless you are "lucky" (really you're luckiest when the first rock kills you outright) or you invoke magic.

 

[sNIP - examples of martyrs - xianity is all true - then so is anything anyone is martyred for]

 

Neither did I. I was a false convert for 15 years. An "ex-Christian," you might say, but not really a Christian in the first place. Oh I worshipped with joy and spoke in tongues. I even evangelized door-to-door, but I think it was because I loved people, not Christ. I wanted everyone to have that cool place called heaven because I loved them. But if you would have asked me if I thought I was a good person, I would have said, "yeah." If you'd have asked me if it was NECESSARY for Christ to die for me, I probably (if I were being honest that day), would have told you, "no. I'm glad He died for murderers and rapists, but what does that have to do with me?" I didn't understand that one lie makes you a liar, that one hateful thought makes you a murderer in God's eyes, that one act of lust makes you an adulterer in God's eyes. God's standard of righteousness is perfection. And the only hope of getting that perfection, for a guy like me who'd already blown it, is getting Jesus' perfection.

In my Lutheran and Baptist days anyone who spoke in tongues would have been considered a false xian. Pentecostals were wrong plain and simple. That's how competing sects work. They, likewise, thought Lutherans were wrong because...let's face it...they're almost Catholics (and the RCC is the beast!). Besides, if you're going to speak in tongues, why not go all the way and become a Holy Roller or snake handler or something? Why not start prophesying? Why not be a healer? Why the "controlled" version of the spirit within you? Paul describes all this in I Corinthians. Seems to me you're holding the spirit back and calling all the shots.

 

I am sorry you didn't take the time to read your bible (see my position on this above) to understand what it was you were buying into when you joined the cult known as xianity. Had you done so then you would have understood who and what the whole death and resurrection concept was and who it was for. Waiting for others to indoctrinate you has this unfortunate side-effect of ignorance.

 

Today, I would know what I would be rejecting, if I were to blaspheme the Holy Spirit in my future. I have actually experienced the forgiveness of God, and for me to reject that and blaspheme the Holy Spirit I believe would put me into unforgiveness land. I know precisely what I'd be giving up. I'd have full knowledge that the Holy Spirit is wonderful but I reject Him anyway.

Really? The HS is wonderful? I'm pretty sure that if I were to request an actual concise description of what the HS is supposed to be that you probably couldn't offer one up.

 

This should give hope to those of you who are worried you've actually done "the deed." The modern feel-good gospel is EVERYWHERE. NO ONE, it seems, is preaching the need for righteousness. "Here, pray this prayer, say this voodoo chant that doesn't really mean anything to you and you will certainly be given a better life, and what a wonderful afterlife!" And so thousands of false converts are created with zero sense of personal need for the savior (like I was, for 15 years), and they either slump through life with no visible external difference between them and their atheist neighbor, and we call them "carnal Christians," or they give up Christ, blaspheme the Holy Spirit, and we call them "backsliders." How can we be certain they ever slid forward in the first place?

 

And this is happening in America by the millions!

Done "the deed?" Do you mean had pre-marital sex with the Holy Spirit? Hey buddy...we're not all "virgin Mary's" here. We don't do that kind of thing.

 

Well, there's zero need for a personal savior. However, that voodoo chant sounds pretty good. Next time you come by you should post that up. I will tell you that if you were saying a voodoo chant, then odds are, you weren't a xian. Now, I know that gets tossed around a lot, but normally voodoo chants aren't said in xian services at the mainstream sects (that you hinted you thought you were in).

 

Also, the need for you and this ambiguous "we" that you're a part of, really should back off the labels. It's really just another form of judgment whether you want to admit it or not. And anyone who gets rid of xianity altogether is "apostate" not a "backslider." These are two different things.

 

As for an "afterlife," xians can't present a coherent view of this either. Feel free to try but I know that you will likely fail here too.

 

Your problem seems to be that you damn the system when the core, the biblical texts themselves, are at fault. To put it a different way, you blame the needle for injecting poison into your veins.

 

I wish I could spend much time here discussing this more, but I predict that I won't be able to. I just popped in this evening because I had some time. If there is something burning you have to tell me, please drop a line: Chris (AT) deVidal (DOT) tv.

I wish I could be bothered to email you but I predict I won't. I just had some time to kill and thought I'd answer your ramblings with some of my own.

 

mwc

[NotBlinded]

mwc

You are so bad mwc...in a good way of course!

[StewartP]

It's been mentioned elsewhere on these forums, that on youtube there is a thing called "

" inviting people to publicly comit the sin of denying the Holy Spirit

 

Here is my

. You get to see me condemned to hell for eternity, as well as my ugly face and silly accent.

[NotBlinded]

It's been mentioned elsewhere on these forums, that on youtube there is a thing called "

" inviting people to publicly comit the sin of denying the Holy Spirit

 

Here is my

. You get to see me condemned to hell for eternity, as well as my ugly face and silly accent.

hehe...you said wanka! Well, you really said wanker but with the accent...

[xild]

Neither did I. I was a false convert for 15 years. An "ex-Christian," you might say, but not really a Christian in the first place. Oh I worshipped with joy and spoke in tongues. I even evangelized door-to-door, but I think it was because I loved people, not Christ. I wanted everyone to have that cool place called heaven because I loved them. But if you would have asked me if I thought I was a good person, I would have said, "yeah." If you'd have asked me if it was NECESSARY for Christ to die for me, I probably (if I were being honest that day), would have told you, "no. I'm glad He died for murderers and rapists, but what does that have to do with me?" I didn't understand that one lie makes you a liar, that one hateful thought makes you a murderer in God's eyes, that one act of lust makes you an adulterer in God's eyes. God's standard of righteousness is perfection. And the only hope of getting that perfection, for a guy like me who'd already blown it, is getting Jesus' perfection.

So I see you're still steeped in your cult down there Chris. Of all the Christians who come to share the good news with us True ExChristians , you always seemed the most detached from reality from all others. Problem life, turns to twisted Christian cult to try to hang on to some sense of connection with yourself. Yours is not a Christian belief, it's something far more twisted and insideous. It just uses all the Bible language, but how it applies it, at least certainly in your life is outside the realm of even the most dogmatic of fundi preachers.

 

What you need isn't Jesus Chris. You need help. Then once you've opened those wounds that have scared your mind and begun to heal, then you can explore faith if it still has value for you then. You need a deprogrammer.

 

BTW, I hope you are no longer disciplining your children for God with systematic physical hittings as prescribed by your cult's reading of scripture. That whole thing still sickens my heart.

 

Geesh thanks Antlerman, for saying (all but that last paragraph) what I was thinking although I don't know this person I do recognize the blather. This person is seriously disturbed, that is obvious. and in need of deep help; I can not even enjoy a laugh over it.

[xild]

Of course, my life as a born-again believer is indeed all of those things (peace/joy/abundant living), but Jesus promised persecution and testing by the hand of Satan!

Your friend called the HS a demon?! Oh my, oh my! It's obvious he wasn't sold a half-truth but rather a half-lie...which is so much worse I would think because it has the word "lie" in it...so, yes, a half-lie indeed. Truly he was never a TRUE Christian. It's important that you pointed that out. Damn you Satan! (You can't see but I'm shaking my fist in anger at the floor...Hell's down there you know).

 

Thankfully, you do understand why we all bailed on the religion that is Christianity. We were sold rainbows and puppies but when that didn't materialize we rejected the whole thing as false. We're "cut and runners." I personally quit...and this is hard to admit but since you truly understand...I went outside and the temperature was slightly different than what was predicted by the weatherman on the news. I prayed and prayed but yet the two numbers never, ever, aligned. The baby Jesus had failed me and I could not reconcile my beliefs any longer. I cursed the Holy Spirit and embraced my wanton lifestyle of homosexuality, drugs, incest, bestiality and a few things I think I may have invented. Later that night when I went to sleep I realized that I had gotten the dates wrong and it wasn't the baby Jesus that had erred but it was my own selfish human desires that had blinded me. Sadly, I had already cursed the Holy Spirit, and I was forever lost, since, as you had said, I had hurt the Holy Spirit's feelings and he refuses to forgive me. My only solace is that I can blame Satan for tricking me into not turning over my calendar page that fateful day and therefore he will share some of the blame. I think most of the people that go apostate share a very similar experience to my own.

 

mwc

 

Okay I was wrong.