I Need Advice... Money Or Sanity?

[pandora]

I am at a crossroads. I have finished 4.5 years of pharmacy school, with 1.5 left. I also have a bachelor's in comparative religious studies. I encountered some trouble in pharmacy school (had crap happen in life, so my grades suffered). I was kicked out, and forced to find another avenue for a year or so.... so I started nursing school. Then they let me back into pharmacy school.

Now, again, I've been kicked out (I think because a prof doesn't like, I got a D in a ONE HOUR course), but the Dean has said she'll give me one more chance if that is what I want.

 

My problem is I don't know if that is what I want. I've been a pharmacy intern off and on for the past six years. I hated it. Over break, I've been reminded of that because I need to make a decision. The only things that make me want to finish pharmacy school is the fact I'd be making lots of money and I would finish what I started.... but I don't want to be a pharmacist.

 

When I was in the nursing program, I was in awe of the possibilities... academia, higher degrees that are a lot easier to obtain (in pharmacy, if you want to go further, you either need two more years of residencies, or get a PhD in some hard science). Also, even with a RN/BSN, you have a lot more career options open to you. That excited me. I wouldn't be stuck doing the same thing my entire life, and the kind of patient interaction nurses do is a lot more emotionally fulfilling. BUT... nurses make 1/3 to 1/2 the money pharmacists make. With over 90K in student loans and a husband who doesn't make a lot of money in PR, money is a consideration. If I had the luxury of time, I would finish pharmacy school, pay off my loans, and then go into nursing. But I can't afford that much more in loans... nursing school to get a BSN would take me less than two years, and at the local state college which is much cheaper than the private pharmacy school I attend.

 

Also, nurses seem to be looked down upon. I hate being looked down upon. I also would feel like I wasted so much of my life in pharmacy school. I just don't know what to do. Do I go for the money, or go for my long-term happiness and sanity?

 

What would you guys do? Are there any nurses that can clue me in to the realities of the day-to-day job? How do you handle being looked down upon? Do you feel you're paid what you're worth? It seems to me nurses have so much more responsibility than they are paid for... that would annoy me, too.

 

Dianka, are you out there? How is nursing school going for you? Is it what you expected? Do you feel prepared to be a nurse? I hear from friends that are nurses and my mom, who was a nurse, that nursing school doesn't prepare well enough academically or practically for the realities of nursing. That scares me. At least in pharmacy, I was well-prepared even if a little over-prepared. I'd feel like a big portion of my brain was wasted knowing so much about drugs... and I'm not sure how much I'd use that knowledge in nursing.

 

So... please help. I feel guilty for being selfish about money, and I want to make the right decision that will make me happiest in the long run.

[Lycorth]

As much as it may sound like a waste of money, if you're really unhappy with your career choice, then leave it.

 

I wanted to be an English Prof. If I could find work in that field, I could've made some good money. But I hated all the bullshit that went along with getting my PhD, so I left it. I was happier cutting keys and doing other jobs than that, despite the promise of good money.

 

You've got to do what makes you feel right, even if you discard years of schooling in the process. You've got one life and it's not worth it to waste it being unhappy.

[Jubilant]

Also, nurses seem to be looked down upon. I hate being looked down upon.

 

By who? Pandora, my Great Aunt was an RN her entire adulthood and had nothing but the utmost respect from all of her friends, family members and acquaintances. If you want and desire to be a nurse, go for it...there certainly is a lack of jobs in that area! And besides, why should you care what other think if it makes you happy? I can honestly attest to the fact that no one that I have ever known in my entire adulthood has ever had a demeaning word to say about nurses, only the highest respect.

 

I also have had a couple of friends over the years who were nurses and they were very fulfilled and happy (of course there will be trying times) individuals. Is it possible that you are confusing people looking down on male nurses (though that is fucked up) with nursing in general?

 

My great uncle (her brother) was a pharmacist and owned his own pharmacy. I can honestly tell you that both were loaded financially and had all kinds of travel adventures, big homes, nice things, etc. The only reason that my great uncle was even remotely better off is because he was self-employed and therefore had more freedom in his older years.

 

money or go for my long-term happiness and sanity?

 

IMHO, long term happiness. What good is having a lot of money if you aren't happy making it?

[Jubilant]

So... please help. I feel guilty for being selfish about money, and I want to make the right decision that will make me happiest in the long run.

 

First things first...stop feeling guilty! :-)

[Reach]

Pandora, life is too short to be stuck working in the wrong field or placement. You will probably always regret the decision that leaves you where you don't want to be.

 

I put my former husband through medical school. He had first set his sights on nursing (thinking he didn't "have what it takes" to get through medical school). During the first year of his education in undergraduate work in the nursing program, I managed to convince him that I knew he would never be satisfied, especially as a male, in nursing, thinking he "might have, should have, could have" worked his tale off and become a doctor.

 

I was right. He remains happy, satisfied, challenged and fulfilled as a surgeon and ER doc.

 

How does your husband feel about this? Is he willing to support you in your decision?

 

If you hate pharmacy, pay off the debts and move on.

 

Do what makes you happy. If that is nursing, go girl and be the best darned nurse your less expensive education can buy.

 

Unless you like being miserable, you need a healthy soul to go with that body.

 

You don't need the approval of others. Ignore the opinions of those who hold nurses in less than the highest esteem. Do right by yourself and your family and you have no need for the opinions of anyone outside that circle.

[Kurari]

If you have to be stuck working at least 8 hours a day, five days a week, for around 40-50 years of your life, you'd better enjoy what you are doing. Usally, people get stuck spending more of their life than that working.

 

Who cares what other people think? My dad thinks I'm wasting my life as an artist, but I love what I'm do. It's what I DO in life. Y'know? And I'm good at it. I don't have any college degrees because I never figured out what to go to college for. I got stuck going to community college for several years because of EVERYBODY ELSE'S expectation. I was miserable. I was a lousy student. I finally realized I had made a huge mistake going to school. So I left. Best decision I ever made. I'm a lot happier now and successful regardless.

 

If you want to be a nurse, drop your pharmacy studies with dignity and tell everyone else who tries to tell you what you "should" be doing that it's not open for discussion. Money is made and lost constantly, being happy is much more valuble.

[Lycorth]

So... please help. I feel guilty for being selfish about money, and I want to make the right decision that will make me happiest in the long run.

 

First things first...stop feeling guilty! :-)

 

Ditto that. There's nothing to feel guilty about. All you're doing is trying to put your own best interests first, and you're not doing it at someone else's expense.

[Guest Franziska_VonKarma]

The money from nursing is very, very good. In New York City, new nurses fresh off their bachelors can make $70,000 a year... WAY more than I'll be making as an ESL teacher! It's certainly better for the money to be a bit tight than for you to be miserable with your life.

My mother's a nurse. She loves it. Yes, there's bullshit involved, but there's bullshit involved with everything...

[Amethyst]

Go for long-term happiness. Money isn't worth it if you can't enjoy it. That having been said, keep in mind that the grass isn't always greener on the other side either. No job is perfect, but some jobs are better for other people. Have you taken those career type tests?

[godlessgrrl]

I don't have a clue what it's like to be a nurse.

 

But I have a pretty good feeling that if you stick with being a pharmacist, you're going to have an utterly miserable life. Money isn't enough to make up for a career you absolutely hate. I saw this with my dad, who chose a career as a corporate exec over a career as a teacher, because even though he really loved teaching, he decided the money was better as an exec for supporting his family. Not a horrible reason to pick the money, I suppose, but I can't tell you how miserable he was for how long. Nearly 4 decades and a stress-induced heart attack later, he's finally retired.

 

If his heart attack had killed him, his entire life would have been miserable. He would've died hating his job, hating the place where he'd already spent a good three decades of his life, day in, day out, plus weekends, 9 hours a day.

 

Fuck, I wouldn't want that. Jeez. Life's way too short to spend a third of it absolutely despising what you do.

 

I might go ahead and finish the Rx degree, just to have the full degree, if it's feasible. If it isn't, there's nothing wrong with bailing, especially since you've learned so much thus far, and learned how much you actually hate the work. I mean at least at this point you can say that you gave it a good shot, y'know? It isn't like you bailed after the first semester because you didn't like the homework or something.

 

Regardless of whether or not you finish the degree, that Rx background is going to give you an edge over other nurses. And anything that gives you an edge is a marketable skill.

 

Plus I think that the nursing field is going to explode over the next couple of decades, because the demographic my parents are in (60 and over) is getting bigger every day. The nation's population is getting *old*, and they're going to need medical care, bigtime - including nursing. In fact around here, nurses are often way more on the ball than doctors are: they spend more time with patients and are generally better at bedside manner. (ARNP's can actually serve as primary care providers in my state.)

 

And in the area in which I live, there's already a HUGE demand for nurses - and the local nursing schools haven't caught up with it yet. There are countless more qualified candidates than local schools have slots for. In the next few years, I think they're going to realize that they have to expand their programs to take new candidates.

 

So I'm sure that you'd have a good, successful career as a nurse, if you go that route.

 

Anyway. Good luck in your decision, whichever way you go with it.

[Blue elephant]

Have you done any "work experience" in nursing? Perhaps you should arrange that to assist you in making up your mind.

[sparkyone]

I'd like to add something since I went to 3 three years of nursing school (all but one of those semesters I also did clinicals in various parts of the hospital) plus one year of working in a state-funded hospital as social service since I went to school in Mexico where higher education is pretty much free tuition so after finishing school you have to do a year of service in your field before actually graduating or taking board exams. Some of my classmates were assigned to small, rural clinics or in low-income neighborhoods. I chose the hospital so I could stay in the city. Anyway, I pretty much always wanted to be a nurse, but I also wanted to get married and have kids. My parents paid for my expenses and tuition (I attended a small nursing school in a private hospital so it wasn't free tuition, plus I was a foreigner and paid double tuition) for the years I spent there, so I don't have to pay loans now. The point is that after I got back home after graduation at age 22, I met my future husband and never managed to get my nursing license. It wasn't feasible for me to spend the necessary time in Mexico City making the arrangements. I know it sounds lame, but it's a long, boring story as to why it didn't work out. For awhile I felt like I had wasted my time there, since I got married and never worked as a nurse after returning to the U.S. I totally loved the patient interaction and actually had a hard time keeping up sometimes with the workload because I was just slow or was spending more time than I should with each patient (take your pick). Certain areas were difficult for me, such as the OR. I was so scared of contaminating a sterile field or having a surgeon throw something at me or yell at me (some did, but many were kind) and I didn't do very well in there. I loved Labor and delivery, where we also handled c-sections and emergency hysterectomies. The rest of the departments I rotated through during my time there were somewhere in between. The neat thing about nursing or medicine is that it's such a broad field and you can focus on a specialty in the area where you have strengths and what you enjoy the most. It's very important to have a good basis in pharmacology as a nurse since the nurses are basically the ones who follow through with the doctor's orders and must verify that it's done correctly. It's not like you're blindly following orders, but have to be knowledgeable. One thing that irritated me was that nurses have to set stuff up and clean up after the doctors while they just go off and do their charting or whatever. I have little knowledge of nursing in the U.S., but I assume it's generally the same. It could be very stressful where I worked, at times with a 12-hr night shift with 18-20 patients and only one nurse's aide to help me by taking vitals and doing clean up and stuff. Sometimes I didn't sit down or even go to the restroom all night. However, at this point in my life (age 33) I'm ready to get into a career as a medical assistant, which requires a lot less education than a nurse. I'm sure none of my classes from Mexico are transferrable, and I don't care at this point, and I'll be starting my second semester of perhaps 3 years to get my associate's degree. I no longer think of my years in nursing as a waste. I had many great and unforgettable experiences, including helping deliver a few babies and helping suture at the end of a surgery, that I wouldn't be likely to get in the U.S. as a nurse. I also gained experience in a different culture and became fluent in another language and met a lot of people and hopefully touched some lives in a positive way. I don't regret it, but I'm willing to accept the past and move on. I totally agree that you should do what makes you feel fulfilled, rather than just consider the money side of it. Ultimately you have to decide what road to take. Good luck,

 

Sparkyone

[BlueGiant]

Looked down on? To be honest, those docs that look down on nurses aren't likely to remain doctors for long (or at least will get their egos shot up real quick). A good nurse is cherished by a smart doc, and everyone else in a hospital, not to mention the patients. At least that is what I have seen in my family (grew up around doctors).

 

I could have stayed in chemistry, stayed and gone for med school, but I am much happier in computers (though I know I could make more elsewhere). Money doesn't do anything for a job you hate. If nursing makes you happy, then go for it. What others feel/think/look at doesn't matter, as long as you are happy with what you do.

[pandora]

The money from nursing is very, very good. In New York City, new nurses fresh off their bachelors can make $70,000 a year... WAY more than I'll be making as an ESL teacher! It's certainly better for the money to be a bit tight than for you to be miserable with your life.

My mother's a nurse. She loves it. Yes, there's bullshit involved, but there's bullshit involved with everything...

 

LOL Well, Indianapolis isn't New York. Starting RNs doing shift work make about 35K. Area average is in the 50s, but drug company positions and nurse anesthetists throw the average off (they make around the 80s). Pharmacists working in a large chain in retail make in the low 100s. (Yes! I promise!) In a grocery store, about 80-90K. Staff Rph in a hospital-- 60-70K. Even taking into account cost of living, nurses make a lot less in the midwest than they do on the east coast.

 

Thanks for your responses, guys... I really appreciate it. Keep'em coming!! Lots of good advice... I'm still mulling it all over.

[pandora]

Amy, no I haven't taken one of those tests. But, I am a waitress part time now... and I realized that I mentally, I do much better because I am able to move around, and I can think on my feet. Each day is different, even though I work with roughly the same things... I think the people make the difference. I get to interact more with my customers than I did in pharmacy. This is really what made me think I would enjoy nursing more. I understand that nursing is extremely stressful too... but I think it's stressful in a way I can handle better. I am my mother's daughter, and she loved nursing, and never had a complaint about it! I can't help but think that my professors and mother are right in telling me I'd be halfway decent at it. My religion profs and some of my pharmacy profs all thought that if I didn't go into academia (that's what they thought I should do), that nursing would be a good fit for me because of the greater range of opportunity. I'd be more able to express myself, and my holistically-minded outlook on life and medicine suits the nursing philosophy more than the pharmacy philosophy. They also think I'm a great people person and say I can make people feel at ease.

 

I must admit, the day to day drudgery of the job scares me a bit.... the really high patient load is just bad. Bad for the patients, bad for me, bad for the hospital. I don't mind gross things and blood. I don't mind doing grunt work occasionally. I just want to be able to use my brain a fair amount, as well... and use some of my pharmacy education along the way.

[exbeliever]

Money is just money. Do what you think you will enjoy.

 

My wife and I always tell each other to "Follow the dream, not the dollar."

 

I got my undergraduate degree in biblical studes and two masters degrees in theology. Then I became an atheist, so I had to find something else to do. For three years, I taught special education in a "hard-to-staff" high school in South Central, Los Angeles. While teaching there, I got a master of arts in humanities and really enjoyed the philosophy part of my program. My wife and I decided that we could stand to make another financially "unwise" decision and we packed up and moved out to the East Coast where I am working on a PhD in philosophy.

 

My wife loves books and dreamed of working in a library or bookstore (even though she had a lot of experience as an executive administrative assistant). Recently, she got a staff job at a college library with laughable pay.

 

So, we are as broke as we've ever been, but, ironically, happier than we've ever been, but both of us are doing what we love and we just deal with our lack of money. At times, of course, it sucks (this past week my brother-in-law and sister-in-law stayed with us; my brother-in-law makes a good six-figure income and it sucked having to tell them that we couldn't afford to go out to another restaurant with them), but all-in-all we are really glad we've made the choices we have.

 

For whatever that's worth.

[Vigile]

What is it about pharma that you think you wouldn't like? What is it about nursing that makes you think you would prefer this career? Is there anyway that you can turn your pharma degree into something you might enjoy doing better such as consulting, sales, researcher, whatever? Can your credits transfer or would you be starting over? Are you making this decision because you are tired and frustrated?

 

I don't ask these to be patronizing. They are just questions you need to ask yourself I think.

 

I have heard that nurses are terribly burned out due to stressful work and long hours. If the stress of school is tough for you, this stressful career might be a tough career move for you.

 

Money may not be everything, but it means a whole lot; especially if you have to scrape by for years paying off student loans. Money can buy some degrees of happiness and a lack of money when it's needed will buy you a world of pain.

 

Just my take on it. I dont know all the details, so please don't shoot me if I've offended.

[Taphophilia]

Pandy,

 

From what you describe about your waitress job, I think you would really enjoy pharmacy sales. It's a very difficult job to get, but if you had a pharmacy degree you'd be a shoe in. Basically, you go to the doctors and explain and answer questions about the drugs your company sells. You have an expense account so you can buy lunch for the doctors office, which basically gets you time to talk to the doctors. You get a base salary, and then you get commission from all the pharmacy sales of the drugs you rep in your territory. I know that 60K to 70K is more than an attainable salary for drug reps.

[Jella]

The nurses in the Cancer Unit I was at, were by far the reason my recovery and treatment went so well. I love them, and appreciate everything they did for me.

 

Rock on nurses!

[pandora]

Pandy,

 

From what you describe about your waitress job, I think you would really enjoy pharmacy sales. It's a very difficult job to get, but if you had a pharmacy degree you'd be a shoe in. Basically, you go to the doctors and explain and answer questions about the drugs your company sells. You have an expense account so you can buy lunch for the doctors office, which basically gets you time to talk to the doctors. You get a base salary, and then you get commission from all the pharmacy sales of the drugs you rep in your territory. I know that 60K to 70K is more than an attainable salary for drug reps.

 

 

That would be a possibility, if I were a sales-oriented person. I'm not. I sort of have ethical problems with drug reps and how they influence doctors. Docs are in the sales rep's pockets.... many mediocre family physicians merely prescribe whatever drug they heard about last (a slight exaggeration, but with psych meds, that's definitely true). I'm much more concerned with helping humanity in some way.

[pandora]

What is it about pharma that you think you wouldn't like? What is it about nursing that makes you think you would prefer this career? Is there anyway that you can turn your pharma degree into something you might enjoy doing better such as consulting, sales, researcher, whatever? Can your credits transfer or would you be starting over? Are you making this decision because you are tired and frustrated?

 

I don't ask these to be patronizing. They are just questions you need to ask yourself I think.

 

I have heard that nurses are terribly burned out due to stressful work and long hours. If the stress of school is tough for you, this stressful career might be a tough career move for you.

 

Money may not be everything, but it means a whole lot; especially if you have to scrape by for years paying off student loans. Money can buy some degrees of happiness and a lack of money when it's needed will buy you a world of pain.

 

Just my take on it. I dont know all the details, so please don't shoot me if I've offended.

 

No offense taken... all good questions. I'll try to answer them.

 

I am tired and frustrated, I've been in college since 1999. But I also love school and that's not really my problem. My problems with school were due to my mom being sick and having to take care of her with nearly full times jobs during school (which I still do, and have found a way to not get as stressed about it). She also got into legal trouble and I had a serious 3 year bout with major depression, and I had a miscarriage, etc... I've just had a really bad stretch of luck over the past five years or so. Also, I didn't fit into the good pharmacy student mold... I'm too outspoken and liberal for the medical establishment as far as how pharmacists are expected to behave. I think there's more room for personality in nursing, and more room for expression and changing the way things are done in nursing. Maybe that's a pipe dream, but that's okay.

 

My pharm class GPA is not high enough to get into grad school, but my religion degree GPA is excellent, and I won't have trouble getting into the nursing program. I've taken all the pre-reqs needed to apply, and I"ve met with the people to make sure of that. I would start this summer, and the accelerated program is 18 months. Pharmacy classes are so specific that they rarely transfer over to other degrees, unfortunately. I'd have to start from scratch in any other program.

 

I have some ethical issues with the pharmaceutical industry... I'm not sure I'd be a good drug rep (as I said before). I hate standing in the same place for a whole shift as I would in a pharmacy... checking my technician's work, calling docs when they make a mistake, calling insurance companies, and keeping all the legal paperwork needed for a pharmacy (the pharmacist also acts as pharmacy manager most of the time).

 

I know nurses get burned out... but my mom loved it, and I am like her in a lot of ways. I like that you get to move around and directly interact with patients. Grunt work doesn't bother me as long as I can use my brain too... I think I would be able to do that in nursing. I want to help people more directly than a retail pharmacist is able. In addition, as a nurse, I could easily advance my degree and go into nursing academia, and I've been told that would also be a good option for me. There are just so many more career opportunities with nursing. With just the doctor of pharmacy, I have only a couple choices... staff hospital pharmacist (which doesn't pay as much), retail pharmacy, or drug rep. Getting into research is nearly impossibly unless you have a higher degree or have been published. It didn't used to be that way because the PharmD was the advanced degree, but many states have changed their laws and now all licensed pharmacists are required to get the PharmD, so it doesn't mean as much anymore, even though it is a more clinically and scientifically oriented curriculum than the old BS in pharmacy. I think I would eventually make at least as much as staff hospital pharmacists make, but it will take longer to get there. Pharmacists get paid well, but the salary only goes up as cost of living goes up... there's very little room for advancement.

 

I do think I need to go shadow a nurse for a while and see what they do. I can't just take my mom's word for it.... but I have worked in hospitals and have a general idea of what kinds of responsibilities they have.

 

Thanks for everyone's responses... I'm still mulling it over.

[Lycorth]

You're a waitress, Pandy? I've got a tip for ya

 

Couldn't resist

 

Seriously, I've found in my time that even doing menial jobs that are more enjoyable is always the better way to go than trying to force yourself to do what you know you really don't want to. Again, the academic hoops I saw I'd have to jump through, as well as the insane amount of debt I'd accrue in the process, scared me more than the thought of getting my PhD pleased me. I'd rather be stuck paying off a few grand in debt than a hundred grand down the road.

 

Again, all I can tell you is to go for what brings you the most happiness. There's nothing wrong with a "menial" job, so long as you like it and it helps make ends meet. Unless money is an emergency, follow your heart.

[Piprus]

Well, Pandy, I might as well spill it. I have been an RN for over 27 years. Feel free to PM me if you want details.

 

Being an RN is challenging work, but there is a lot of drudgery as well. Just like a lot of professions. There is a lot of pressure, depending on where you work, and like a pharmacist, a mistake can be critical and perhaps even fatal for a patient. But there are a lot of personal rewards as well. The salary is better than ever for entry level positions (certainly much better than when I started), and gets better as you gain experience. With continuation in the career, and especially with postgraduate certification programs in various fields, opportunities can open up like a rosebud, along with even better salary levels.

 

Burnout is always a possibility as a professional RN, but that also applies to a lot of other professions.

 

There are a lot of pros and cons to the profession, but again...there are pros and cons to being a doctor, pharmacist, cop, firefighter, military...you name it.

 

The bottom line is this, and I absolutely believe it...there are few things better in life than to have a career that you enjoy doing. Considering that you spend a huge chunk of your waking hours working at something, far better to like doing it, despite the inevitable downside issues, than to hate your chosen career. That would make life miserable, regardless of how much money you earned.

 

If you decide to be a nurse, I can only hope you find it to be the best choice. One way to determine that is to talk to as many nurses as you can. Do the same with pharmacists. Then throw your hat in the ring, and go for it, or if it no longer appeals to you, try something else. Like physical therapy, laboratory technician, physician assistant, or whatever.

 

Best wishes...

[The Sage Nabooru]

My mother has been a nurse since before my brother was born......over 25 years.

 

Nurses aren't looked down upon, the problem is that doctors are just all too often impossible to work with. They've got this Godly power of life in their hands - or perhaps it's just all the money they make. But doctors are some of the most prime candidates for self-righteousness, bloated egos, big-headedness, feelings of entitlement and superiority, and general assholery.

 

Also you'll be working with patients. A lot of patients are old people, who have reached that point of their retirement when they have absolutely nothing to do with their time (or at least refuse to do anything with it), leaving them to pick over their slightest physical itch or hangnail, and make a new career out of pestering you for treatment for illnesses they don't have (since of course you're lying to them about the diagnosis - his self-made one is obviously the right one whereas your professional one is mere hogwash), and harassing you to answer their every call light, every ten minutes, to listen to them whine about how you lazy nurses just sit around letting poor men/women like them suffer through the torture of an air conditioner turned up too high when in fact you were just running back from an emergency rescusitation down the hall.

 

It can be tough. A lot of it is hard medical work and know-how with all the credit going to the already vainglorious doctor while you get pushed into the background as another anonymous staffer. Certainly it can be very rewarding. But it does have its drawbacks, big ones.