Llwellyn Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 We are all familiar with the claim that people leave Christianity because they wish to do immoral things, and they find the Christian life to burdensome for their pleasure-seeking desires. I was wondering if you think there is any truth to this? Did you leave the religion because you wanted to be cruel and irrational? Did you leave because you wanted to indulge in evil? Did you do it because you wanted to behave in a carnal way, unrestricted by the Christian standards of behavior and the Christian conscience? For me, I think there was a mix of these things. While I was a Christian, I was extremely sexually frustrated and was becoming neurotic. My sexuality was becoming distorted to the point where I was becoming a danger to myself and to others. Thus, I left Christianity and took matters into my own hands. Three months after my deconversion, I had become familiar with the wild strip club scene of Houston, Texas. Six months after my deconversion, I had a girlfriend and lost my virginity with her (at the age of 25). I am no longer the pent-up, anxious, and naive sex freak that I was when I was a Christian. Now, I am beginning to experience myself and my sexuality in a more rational way. Thus, in a way I left Christianity in order to "be evil," but, seen in another way, I left it in order to be "less evil" -- but becoming a more authentic person, which Christianity inhibited. I dunno, perhaps this is just a self-justification. Anyway, perhaps there are some more clear cut stories -- of people who left Christianity so they could intentionally hurt their spouses or children, etc. Maybe someone left so that they could react with pleasure to the miseries of others? Do people leave Christianity in order to do evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piprus Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I think the typical christian claim that we left xianity so we could take up life as immoral, criminal sociopaths is ridiculous. I would be willing to bet that most of us didn't change our lifestyles all that much, just felt free of unwarranted guilt over all that sin-burden that the xian religion tried to convince us we bear god's wrath for. (All taken care of by claiming Jebus, of course) I sure didn't turn from Dr. Jekyll to Mr. Hyde, and I doubt that many others here did either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 A small part of the overall reason I left was that I could have pleasure in my life. Some things that Xianity considers evil (like porn or fornication, for example) are not demonstrably wrong, and I always enjoyed and condoned things like that. I also began to develop alternate views of God and beliefs in magic, which are also forbidden by Xianity. So yes, I did leave so that I could enjoy things Xianity says are evil. But since those things aren't actually evil, I didn't leave in order to be a bad person or indulge in genuinely evil acts. In fact, I left in order to become a better one. Which I've done and shall continue to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubilant Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Damn, you guys mean that I'm the only one that deconverted so that I could go on a murderous rampage, bigtime heists, and beating children? Shoot, I feel so.....alone. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piprus Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Damn, you guys mean that I'm the only one that deconverted so that I could go on a murderous rampage, bigtime heists, and beating children? Shoot, I feel so.....alone. :-( Nyehh...all that gets old after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I don't think sex in its own right is evil. The only kind of sex that is "evil," imo, is rape. As long as people consent, and are old enough to understand the possible consequences of having sex, and take necessary precautions, I don't think it's evil. It's mostly organized religion that sees sex as "evil". I see it as amoral. It's neither good nor evil, it just is. I haven't changed my life all that much since I left. I don't go to church, and I don't torture myself with worrying constantly about hell. That's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exbeliever Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Maybe my experience is different than others, but I don't remember "deciding" to leave Christianity at all. In fact, I would describe it as Christianity leaving me while I did everything I could to hang on. I was a pastor, a two-time seminary graduate, and I really liked church. I liked preaching and leading, singing, studying the Bible, etc. I would never have "chosen" to leave. Somehow, though, I just couldn't maintain faith any more. It drained out of me. I didn't want to, but I simply lost the ability to believe. It took about another year or so for my desire to leave as well. For a long time, I wanted to go back. Now, of course, I can think of nothing more miserable than going back. I enjoy not having to deal with guilt over ridiculous things any more, but "indulging" in Christian sins had nothing to do with my departure from Christianity. Anyone else have a similar experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 If you want to include in that list of immoral acts, things that I consider to be irrationally immoral, then maybe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smellincoffee Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 If by "immoral behavior", you mean going to movies and reading books on science, then yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Nope, I left xtianity because it stopped making sense to me. I could no longer ignore its internal contradictions, and I could no longer ignore how it made no sense in terms of life as I was observing it. Isn't it a little weird that, when xtians learn about our deconversion, the first thing they zero in on is sex? In my opinion, that says a lot about their problems, not mine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 We are all familiar with the claim that people leave Christianity because they wish to do immoral things, and they find the Christian life to burdensome for their pleasure-seeking desires. I was wondering if you think there is any truth to this? Did you leave the religion because you wanted to be cruel and irrational? Did you leave because you wanted to indulge in evil? Did you do it because you wanted to behave in a carnal way, unrestricted by the Christian standards of behavior and the Christian conscience? Thus, in a way I left Christianity in order to "be evil," but, seen in another way, I left it in order to be "less evil" -- but becoming a more authentic person, which Christianity inhibited. I dunno, perhaps this is just a self-justification. Anyway, perhaps there are some more clear cut stories -- of people who left Christianity so they could intentionally hurt their spouses or children, etc. Maybe someone left so that they could react with pleasure to the miseries of others? Do people leave Christianity in order to do evil? That's me! Captain Evil! I left so I could shoot Amish children with a 30 aught six sniper rifle. Only Jebsus and condemnation from Church kept me in line. Seriously, I left because of all the stupidity associated with it. At least, 'pop' Christianity; I'm much happier as a mystic, and my spiritual strength is way stronger now. I don't know how many times I heard the evils of sex from grown Christian men afraid of their own bodies. A fucking disgrace to man. All the repressive retard books by Christian authors readily available at Barnes and Noble on how to 'resist' sexual urges! Ohhhh noooo, I have a working penis! God save me! LOL, fuck! No matter what church, what denomination, what state or country (I've been all over the world)...Christians are the same everywhere. I had Christian friends ask me "Shawn, how do you control yourself?" Easy! Self control! And jerking off a few times a week if I don't have a GF. Seriously! That alone tends to keep me from becoming a sexually repressed freak. Releases the tension. I had this one senior pastor at the Navigators who used to tell me, 'Shawn, it's just a momentary pleasure'. I said, "Not with me it isn’t! LOL!" He was a nice guy, but man, I'd never take pointers from him on how to be a real man. That same group I talked about who would tell me I had a 'spirit of pride' and needed to stop doing all that weightlifting and boxing. YECH! The pastor's oldest daughter was 18 at the time, JeRee, and she was pretty hot...man she LIKED me alot! She blew off ALL the other guys and would hang out with me. I wish I had been more aggressive, I could have had her easy. All the hotties at that church liked me similarly. I know I felt somewhat guilty, like I was seducing them. I was naive about sex though, I was a virgin at 22 still in the USAF; I was more interested in fighting and such. That and my wacko Christian mom and family kept me in the house so much, I didn't get to interact with anyone freely until I was literally 18, and I was on independent study from 6th grade until I graduated high school. To say I lived a sheltered life is an understatement. Probably why I became so aggressive and combatative...I did anything to not be the way she tried to make me as a kid. I had to punch her lights out one day, and the rest of my family tried to reign me back in but I almost beat my dad's ass, and my grandfather, and my older cousin too! Fuckin' goddman assholes! But besides that, I also had no idea how to talk to girls! They would come up to me, and I was like 'Zhor the Bloodletter', 9th century AD! I wish they had been more aggressive, they could have had me! They did finally, at 23 :-) I had alot of guys there that did not like me, and considered me a 'brute'. We'd have these Friday get togethers at the head pastor's place (big ranch house in Arizona) with some 60 people usually, mostly from the Air Force base where I was stationed. The guys there were mostly meek and mild. I'd be talking with them and they would be all proud of handing out care packages. And they would ask me what I did that week and I would say, "Well, I'm leg pressing 1,300 lbs, free squatting 400 lbs, and benching 315 lbs". Oh, how prideful!!! Anyway, that's why I left. Too much BS on holding a man back from being a man. And some pastor trying to have your consciousness and dump guilt on you for being human. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I find the Xian claim that we left because we wanted to live lives full of wanton hedonistic sin to be a highly self-absorbed one (on the part of the Xians), as well as a morally judgmental one. I mean really, our lives may have revolved around Xianity at one point, but my leaving isn't about them (i.e., Xians). It certainly wasn't about trying to affront anyone, or offend anyone, and I've never heard of anybody leaving for a reason like that anyway. However, I will acknowledge that leaving offered a certain kind of freedom, as far as behavior goes. It wasn't a kind of "do anything you want" free-for-all thing, but it was more like I finally could relax about a lot of things, take the time to actually decide my moral compass for myself, and feel way less guilt and shame about things like, say, sexual behavior, than I did when I was Xian. I also found that leaving was the honest thing to do. I couldn't live with Xianity anymore, and there were a lot of reasons why, and if I stuck around, maybe the Xians around me would've been content, but I would've been doing a lot of pretending. And there are some things I'm just not very good at pretending about. Pissing off Xians is just a fortunate side effect, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I find the Xian claim that we left because we wanted to live lives full of wanton hedonistic sin to be a highly self-absorbed one (on the part of the Xians), as well as a morally judgmental one. I get tired of hearing that from them. It is very judgemental, self-absorbed and ignorant; the whole argument is circular and self re-enforcing via heavy guilt. Ray Comfort spouts that line often on his TV show/series, along with cherry boy what's his-name from Left Behind. "Most former Christians left to please the flesh! Just like a pig that wallows back in the mud for pleasure & comfort!" What a clown. He also has said numerous times "Ex-Christians are usually the most vehement opponents of Christianity". Ray Comfort, master of the obvious! I wonder why! I always notice the two of them target young lone women, or older teenagers hanging out in front of a Baskin Robbins. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 "Most former Christians left to please the flesh! Just like a pig that wallows back in the mud for pleasure & comfort!" What a clown. He also has said numerous times "Ex-Christians are usually the most vehement opponents of Christianity". Ray Comfort, master of the obvious! I wonder why! Xians still spout that shit? Of course pigs roll in mud because they're smart! From www.pigs.org: 5. Why do pigs wallow in mud? Unlike cats and dogs, pigs cannot cool themselves by panting. Nor can they sweat enough to cool themselves off, as humans do. To lower their body temperature, pigs roll in something cool, such as mud or water. Pigs usually prefer mud because it also protects them from sunburn and insect bites. Looks like pigs plain don't want to die from over heating. I think being compared to a pig is a compliment. We're all smart enough to get away from something bad for us and move to something good for us...even if some onlookers are too damn retarded to realize it (and join us). Just another example of the bible, and the idiots that quote it, being wrong. No one's surprised I'm sure. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I really don't think anyone leaves Christianity in order to do evil; I do however believe that certain people get into Christianity and think they can get away with more evil because all they have to do is ask their god to forgive them. In their minds they can commit murder and rape children and still go to heaven. Christianity, more than anything promotes evil and gives people an excuse to be hateful. It's also very profitable for a con artist to be a Christian as many Christians are all to eager to tilth their money away. All one needs to do is look at all the tele-evangelists or preachers at mega-churches all decked out with diamonds and gold, always begging for more money. I stopped being a Christian because it got to the point where I simply could not continue to rationalize the bible, it contradicted reality too much. I didn't like what Christianity was doing to me, it was making me full of hate both for myself and others. I came to the conclusion that IF the god of the bible did exist, he is one evil motherfucker and I can see why Satan rebelled against him. I decided that he wasn't worthy of any worship if he did exist and I didn't see any evidence for his existence. When I left Christianity became a much better person and it was obvious to those who knew me. They'd ask me what I was doing differently, and I'd tell them I left Christianity and was an Atheist...boy did that freak people out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exbeliever Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 . . . I do however believe that certain people get into Christianity and think they can get away with more evil because all they have to do is ask their god to forgive them. In their minds they can commit murder and rape children and still go to heaven. Christianity, more than anything promotes evil and gives people an excuse to be hateful. I was talking with a Christian seminary professor once who believed that the Bible teaches that if a man gets a divorce and remarries, he is disqualified from being a pastor (he only believed that men could be pastors and the divorce stuff was taken from various passages of scripture). I asked him if a man whose ex-wife died could remarry and then become a pastor, and he said yes because the death ended the man's obligation to her. I asked him if a man who had murdered someone and then repented could become a pastor, and he said yes. I, then, said, "So, if a man divorced his wife and remarried he couldn't become a pastor, but if that same man divorced his wife, THEN KILLED HER and repented he COULD become a pastor." He thought about it for a second and said, "Yes." What a fucked-up religion!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 We are all familiar with the claim that people leave Christianity because they wish to do immoral things, and they find the Christian life to burd How about becoming experienced enough in life to finally state that religion is bullshit! Is it immoral to free you mind from guilt producing exercises to "keep you in line!' How about burning in that fuckin hot hell forever!!! Fuck, I say DOUBLE fuck it all. Now my mind is free to pursue a good decent life without any wasted energy on imagined gods! Why the fuck does a god need my worship anyway? Is he vain? Such bull! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 "Most former Christians left to please the flesh! Just like a pig that wallows back in the mud for pleasure & comfort!" What a clown. He also has said numerous times "Ex-Christians are usually the most vehement opponents of Christianity". Ray Comfort, master of the obvious! I wonder why! Xians still spout that shit? Of course pigs roll in mud because they're smart! From www.pigs.org: 5. Why do pigs wallow in mud? Unlike cats and dogs, pigs cannot cool themselves by panting. Nor can they sweat enough to cool themselves off, as humans do. To lower their body temperature, pigs roll in something cool, such as mud or water. Pigs usually prefer mud because it also protects them from sunburn and insect bites. Looks like pigs plain don't want to die from over heating. I think being compared to a pig is a compliment. We're all smart enough to get away from something bad for us and move to something good for us...even if some onlookers are too damn retarded to realize it (and join us). Just another example of the bible, and the idiots that quote it, being wrong. No one's surprised I'm sure. mwc MWC, that was awesome! I love it :-))) Looks like Pastor Ray needs to do some research, LOL! I'd rather be a pig wallowing in the comforts of mud, than a sick dog laying in my own shit. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 . . . I do however believe that certain people get into Christianity and think they can get away with more evil because all they have to do is ask their god to forgive them. In their minds they can commit murder and rape children and still go to heaven. Christianity, more than anything promotes evil and gives people an excuse to be hateful. I was talking with a Christian seminary professor once who believed that the Bible teaches that if a man gets a divorce and remarries, he is disqualified from being a pastor (he only believed that men could be pastors and the divorce stuff was taken from various passages of scripture). I asked him if a man whose ex-wife died could remarry and then become a pastor, and he said yes because the death ended the man's obligation to her. I asked him if a man who had murdered someone and then repented could become a pastor, and he said yes. I, then, said, "So, if a man divorced his wife and remarried he couldn't become a pastor, but if that same man divorced his wife, THEN KILLED HER and repented he COULD become a pastor." He thought about it for a second and said, "Yes." What a fucked-up religion!!! Ain't that the truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 All the stuff that Xians say we left "the faith" to do...wait a minute...I was doing all those things already while I was a Xian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 All the stuff that Xians say we left "the faith" to do...wait a minute...I was doing all those things already while I was a Xian. Maybe then you were never a True Christian Roman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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