Five Questions That Christians Can't Answer

[Dhampir]

...on the world's most Christian-like country? On your currency, you even have "in God we trust..."

If that were the case, they'd have bombed the Philippines. 911 was carried out against "Western decadence" and in retaliation for our perceived maltreatment of them years ago. They don't like christianity, and that was probably a motivator, but it wasn't till afterward that it became a religious conflict.

[crazy-tiger]

9/11 was an attack on Christianity? News to most of the world.

...on the world's most Christian-like country? On your currency, you even have "in God we trust..."

*checks his money*

 

 

Nope... can't see it anywhere Pug. Maybe you should tell me just where it is?

http://www.askcab.co.uk/money_site/mfiver.asp

...many in the Arab world continually refuse to acknowledge the overwhelming evidence that links bin Laden and his terror network to the September 11 attacks. As a CBS News report has documented, much of the Arab world believes instead that the Mossad carried out the attacks, and that 4000 Israelis who allegedly worked in World Trade Center stayed home on 9/11.

 

Indeed, governments in the Arab world have propagated this view. By refuting Arab involvement in 9/11, proponents of the Jewish conspiracy theory avoid confronting the deep-rooted problems that exist in their own societies. Their failure to inspect the domestic issues that lead to terrorism makes them unable, and in some cases unwilling, to prevent future 9/11-style attacks.

 

 

http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hea...ess_emerson.htm

 

THAT was the official US government's view-conclusion. But that could be all lies, right?

Apart from the fact that Arab=/=Muslim, the reports conclusion said NOTHING about it being a religiously motivated attack.

 

Way to go Pug... you've just proven yourself to be a liar... again.

[crazy-tiger]

Is it just me, or does this smell of an attempt to go "But they're just as bad!"

 

No, it's not even an attempt. It's a fact they're not just as bad. They're... we're all bad to the rotten core (err.. except you of course). Generally, this so-called debate is immature anyway. I admit i'm as childish as they come. Matured people, like you, do not call people names; they respect other people's choices-opinions (wrong or right); they do not mock.

 

I'm immatured, so...

Hmm... they're not just as bad, they're just as bad?

 

 

Pug, there comes a time when giving a mature, thoughtful reply is a waste of time due to certain peoples inability to follow what is being said. Depending on the cause of that inability, you can do one of many things...

 

You can give it up as a bad job and move on...

You can point out their inability to follow the debate...

You can use various words to describe how these people are acting...

You can mock what they say.

 

Nothing in that list is immature... since I only mock that which is ridiculous, and ridiculing the ridiculous is quite mature.

[pug]

NOTHING about it being a religiously motivated attack

You are wrong. Depending on what you like to believe...

 

Overview:

CT, The blame for the terrorist attacks has been variously directed at God, Satan, the American people generally, certain elements of the American population, extremist Fundamentalist Muslim terrorists, and all Muslims:

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter2.htm

 

and ridiculing the ridiculous is quite mature.

THAT depends on what your mature mind thinks is "mature" and what is "ridiculous" don't you think? Would you consider punk rockers ridiculing country singers mature?

[crazy-tiger]

NOTHING about it being a religiously motivated attack

You are wrong. Depending on what you like to believe...

 

Overview:

CT, The blame for the terrorist attacks has been variously directed at God, Satan, the American people generally, certain elements of the American population, extremist Fundamentalist Muslim terrorists, and all Muslims:

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter2.htm

Yes, the blame has been directed all over the place, but I guess that what someone says has motivated them might actually BE what is to blame...

 

 

Here's a thought Pug... why not look at your claims and your "proof" before posting?

 

You've claimed that it was an attack on Christianity, yet the proof you offer makes no mention of that.

You claim that the US governments conclusion was that it was an attack on Christianity, yet the proof you offer makes no mention of it.

You claim that my currency has "In God we Trust" on it... since I'm a Brit living in the UK, that claim's seriously wrong and you never HAD any proof for it.

You claim that I'm wrong in stating that the 9/11 Commissions conclusion had nothing about it being a religious attack, yet the only proof you offer is about how various people have blamed various groups, ignoring the claimed motivation and the 9/11 Commissions conclusion of the motivation.

 

Some of your proof implies that, to you, Arab = Muslim... which is absurd at best.

and ridiculing the ridiculous is quite mature.

THAT depends on what your mature mind thinks is "mature" and what is "ridiculous" don't you think? Would you consider punk rockers ridiculing country singers mature?

Depends, are country singers ridiculous?

 

 

See, your claims and arguments, along with your "proof" is completely ridiculous... and since you pay no attention to the logical, intelligent rebutals people give them, ridicule is the only remaining mature and logical response now.

 

Try coming out with something that makes some form of sensible post, and you'll avoid people mocking you... well, they'll still mock the foolishness up to that point, but we're only human and you're the current "village fool"

[Lycorth]

THAT depends on what your mature mind thinks is "mature" and what is "ridiculous" don't you think? Would you consider punk rockers ridiculing country singers mature?

 

It would depend on the character of the punks and the country singers. Many punks are more mature and intelligent than you'd believe, and not all country singers demonstrate that they understand anything beyond girls and cars.

[NotBlinded]

It would depend on the character of the punks and the country singers. Many punks are more mature and intelligent than you'd believe, and not all country singers demonstrate that they understand anything beyond girls and cars.

Don't forget dogs and beer!

 

I'm sure you've heard this, but when you play a country song backwards you get your dog back, your truck back, your wife back...etc!

[Antlerman]

I'm sure you've heard this, but when you play a country song backwards you get your dog back, your truck back, your wife back...etc!

Actually when you play country music backwards you get slowly nauseated over time. When you play it forwards you get nauseated almost instantaneously. At least I do.

[pug]

Arab = Muslim

What's the ONLY religion of any Arab? Islam (=Muslim)

 

Before the coming of Islam, most Arabs followed a religion featuring the worship of a number of deities, including Hubal, Wadd, Al-Lat, Manat, and Uzza, while some tribes had converted to Christianity or Judaism, and a few individuals, the hanifs, had apparently rejected polytheism in favor of a vague monotheism. The most prominent Arab Christian kingdoms were the Ghassanid and Lakhmid kingdoms. With the conversion of the Himyarite kings to Judaism in the late 4th century the elites of the other prominent Arab kingdom, the Kindites, being Himyirite vassals, appear to have converted (at least partly) to Judaism too. With the expansion of Islam, the majority of Arabs rapidly became Muslims, and the pre-Islamic polytheistic traditions disappeared.

 

At present, most Arabs are Muslims.[/quote]

 

OK, most Arabs are Muslims. Do you also know that when you are born into a Muslim family you are NOT allowed to change or leave it?

 

Osama is suspected to be the master mind in 9/11 but i found another site which alleged it was Americans themselves who engineered it.

 

HERE is an exerpt of the 9/11 commission's statement (32 pages):

The catastrophic threat at this moment in history is more spe­cific. It is the threat posed by Islamist terrorism—especially the al Qaeda net-work, its affiliates, and its ideology. As we mentioned in chapter 2, Usama Bin Ladin and other Islamist terror­ist leaders draw on a long tradition of extreme intolerance within one stream of Islam (a minority tradition), from at least Ibn Taimiyyah... http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:WC8ibQ...=clnk&cd=95

 

There are a lot of sites which stated it was not religiously-motivated too.

 

Sorry, didn't know you were an Englander. God save your Queen then.

 

...since you pay no attention to the logical, intelligent rebutals people give them, ridicule is the only remaining mature and logical response now.

Since a retard, no village fool, replies differently, in his bumbling own opinion, it will be deemed LOGICAL and MATURE to ridicule him? Ouch. You crack me up. It depends on where you are you lucky yokel. Try that in an Islamic country like mine.

[pug]

It would depend on the character of the punks and the country singers. Many punks are more mature and intelligent than you'd believe, and not all country singers demonstrate that they understand anything beyond girls and cars.

 

Exactly my point. I only like a few country songs. Sounds the same after a while - which will be exactly what they will say of rock music. There is no rationale for ridicule. When you want to do it, just do it! No need to pretend, pretend! That's British stiff upper lip for you. Just paying lip service. Matured indeed.

 

When i was in England (in the county of Canterbury) studying , all of them would play nice in front of me, but behind my back would be all these Chinky (slit eyes, yellow skinned, blah, blah) badmouthing. But in metropolitan London, it's openly racist! So at least that was real.

 

NOT generalising ok?

[Ouroboros]

Arab = Muslim

What's the ONLY religion of any Arab? Islam (=Muslim)

I read somewhere that the majority of the American Arabs are Christians and not Muslim.

[pug]

While the overwhelming majority of the population of the Middle Eastern region, and, in particular, the countries of the Arab world, are identified as adherents of Islam, the majority of Arab Americans are Christian, not Muslim..

 

Yep, you're right. I didn't know Paula Abdul is of Arab descent (until you made me do the homework)! Your non-confrontational method sure works wonders. Me learned new stuff. Thanks. (and a warm welcome back)

[crazy-tiger]

I'm going to reply in Pug's manner... by taking a tiny part of someone's reply and ignoring the rest.

deemed LOGICAL and MATURE to ridicule him?

Well, yes... when you IGNORE JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING IN SOMEONE'S POST AND REPLY TO SOMETHING INSIGNIFICANT INSTEAD, you're gonna get ridiculed... since it's illogical to continue trying to have a mature and intelligent conversation with someone who's just going to snip most of it and and try to make a continent out of a grain of sand.

 

 

Pug... if you want to avoid the ridicule, then start ANSWERING PEOPLE'S POSTS instead of desperately trying to deflect the topic. THAT is what is mainly getting ridiculed... your transparent attempts to avoid answering that which you can't answer by going so far off-topic that you're over the horizon.

 

Look at what you've done to this serious topic... you've deflected it away from what it was to a discussion about 9/11 and how it was a religious attack to how it wasn't but might have been done by the US to how we just ridicule you to some weird discussion about country music...

 

How about you stick to the topic instead of throwing out all these red herrings?

[pug]

crazy-tiger,

 

I've already answered the 5 questions of this thread, as best as i know how. The other questions, a lot, i've also answered. A number of the answers can't be answered or i can't answer - i've admitted it. What else do you want? Blood?

 

Haven't you got it by now? You don't believe in god. I do. You ask me to show proof: i can't. What other answers do you need? Your system of belief is right? Well it is your choice.

 

You know, the believer is happy (actually a deluded idiot - me), and the doubter is wise (that's you dude).

[Antlerman]

You know, the believer is happy (actually a deluded idiot - me), and the doubter is wise (that's you dude).

 

“It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” Carl Sagan

[crazy-tiger]

You don't believe in god. I do. You ask me to show proof: i can't. What other answers do you need? Your system of belief is right? Well it is your choice.

 

You know, the believer is happy (actually a deluded idiot - me), and the doubter is wise (that's you dude).

Pug... what makes you think I don't believe in any God? You don't KNOW what I believe, so you can't say what I do or don't believe in...

 

I don't believe in any kind of God you would recognise... in a literal sense, we are all part of "God" and that is as far as I could ever say. (that in no way means that I believe we're all-powerful/knowing/seeing... so don't even try to say it means we're all just like Bible-God)

 

I don't believe that my "belief" system is right... it's got it's good and bad points, but it's in no way The Truth since no-one can ever say they know The Truth without being a God in the Classical sense.

 

 

 

You believe you are right, that you know what's Truth, so you refuse to learn and will not become wise... I doubt I am right, so I seek knowledge and, over time, become wise.

 

Since you cannot know the Truth, you are deluded into thinking that you do... so, yes... you ARE a deluded idiot. It's good that you accept this.

 

 

 

Question is, will you do anything about it?

[Lycorth]

You believe you are right, that you know what's Truth™, so you refuse to learn and will not become wise... I doubt I am right, so I seek knowledge and, over time, become wise.

 

Well-put

[NotBlinded]

I'm sure you've heard this, but when you play a country song backwards you get your dog back, your truck back, your wife back...etc!

Actually when you play country music backwards you get slowly nauseated over time. When you play it forwards you get nauseated almost instantaneously. At least I do.

HA! Me too!

[NotBlinded]

How about you stick to the topic instead of throwing out all these red herrings?

But I like to make fun of country music.

 

What was the topic again? I must have cut that part out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just messin' with ya CT.

[NotBlinded]

You don't believe in god. I do. You ask me to show proof: i can't. What other answers do you need? Your system of belief is right? Well it is your choice.

 

You know, the believer is happy (actually a deluded idiot - me), and the doubter is wise (that's you dude).

Pug... what makes you think I don't believe in any God? You don't KNOW what I believe, so you can't say what I do or don't believe in...

 

I don't believe in any kind of God you would recognise... in a literal sense, we are all part of "God" and that is as far as I could ever say. (that in no way means that I believe we're all-powerful/knowing/seeing... so don't even try to say it means we're all just like Bible-God)

 

I don't believe that my "belief" system is right... it's got it's good and bad points, but it's in no way The Truth™ since no-one can ever say they know The Truth™ without being a God in the Classical sense.

 

 

 

You believe you are right, that you know what's Truth™, so you refuse to learn and will not become wise... I doubt I am right, so I seek knowledge and, over time, become wise.

 

Since you cannot know the Truth™, you are deluded into thinking that you do... so, yes... you ARE a deluded idiot. It's good that you accept this.

 

 

 

Question is, will you do anything about it?

 

Wow...we sound alot alike CT. I knew I liked you for a reason!

[pug]

You believe you are right, that you know what's Truth™, so you refuse to learn and will not become wise... I doubt I am right, so I seek knowledge and, over time, become wise.

 

Since you cannot know the Truth™, you are deluded into thinking that you do... so, yes... you ARE a deluded idiot. It's good that you accept this.

 

Where, pardon the expression, the hell, did i claim that i know the Truth? Where the fook did i state that i refuse to learn? why do i visit here if not to seek knowledge? (didn't know the backwards playing of country music tidbit, must try that some time soon)

 

BTW, watch your back, somebody is beginning to like you...

[Legion]

why do i visit here if not to seek knowledge?

That's rhetorical question I suppose. What knowledge do you seek here Pug?

[pug]

Knowledge (from NBBTB) such as:

That's the problem...people are supposed to grow out of the need for the myth because once you can experience this awe, it is no longer needed. But, people pay so much attention to the words and take them for truth that the truth disappears. That is why, IMO, many atheists are more spiritual than the most devout Christian. They don't need any myth to experience the wonders of life. The truth isn't the story and can never be put into words. And besides, where would the church be if people outgrew the myth?

 

I find comfort knowing that I don't have to know in order to know. I also find comfort in understanding that all religions are relating their lives to their subjective experiences of God. They are stories of the God/s. They all have merit, but none contain the Truth™.

 

What I was trying to say above is that when you think you have found the truth in one story and claim the truth exclusively, that your comfort is, well, arbitrary. It really has nothing to do with the truth in larger context of wholeness. It is very hard to try to explain this... The comfort I get comes from understanding that the truth cannot be contained. The comfort you get comes from knowing that the truth is contained in one book and the rest of the world be damned (maybe not so much you, but others that live by exclusivity).

 

Lots of Amanda's posts which are always neutral, interesting, enlightening challenge me to do do more homework.

 

Even stuff like "oxymoron" and "my bad" seemingly unrelated to religion increases my knowledge.

 

Heck, the task of figuring out how to deal with the different folks here is a treasure chest of unknown knowledge in itself. Amen?

[crazy-tiger]

You believe you are right, that you know what's Truth™, so you refuse to learn and will not become wise... I doubt I am right, so I seek knowledge and, over time, become wise.

 

Since you cannot know the Truth™, you are deluded into thinking that you do... so, yes... you ARE a deluded idiot. It's good that you accept this.

 

Where, pardon the expression, the hell, did i claim that i know the Truth? Where the fook did i state that i refuse to learn? why do i visit here if not to seek knowledge? (didn't know the backwards playing of country music tidbit, must try that some time soon)

 

BTW, watch your back, somebody is beginning to like you...

Do you accept that fact that you might be wrong in your belief and that Jesus/Bible God/The Bible is all false and that you've been duped into following a lie?

[pug]

Do you accept that fact that you might be wrong in your belief and that Jesus/Bible God/The Bible is all false and that you've been duped into following a lie?

I believe there is such a God as the Bible God.

 

The Bible is a collection of books (with a long, long history) with God-inspired words written down by men. However:

 

The self-attestation of Scripture as God's Word makes it objectively authoritative in itself, but such authority will not be subjectively received without an internal, spiritual change in man. The Holy Spirit must open our sinful eyes and give personal conviction concerning the Scripture's self-witness: "Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, in order that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God" (I Cor. 2:12).

 

We must be especially careful not to confuse this with subjectivism, which is ultimately relativistic. The internal testimony of the Holy Spirit does not stand by itself or operate in a vacuum; it must be teamed with the objective self-witness of the Scriptures themselves.

 

Moreover, this work of the Spirit is not an individual or idiosyncratic matter, as though the internal testimony operated uniquely upon one person by himself. Thus it is the corporate church, not mystical religious mavericks, which recognizes -- through the Spirit's gracious, internal ministry -- that the objective self-witness of the Scriptures is genuine.

 

IF it's all false, i'm wrong and been duped with a grand lie; then at my death bed i'll surely know for sure. Until then,

The wisdom of man cannot be relied upon to judge the wisdom of God (I Cor. 1:20-25). Indeed, in its natural condition, man's mind will always fail to receive the words of God's Spirit: "the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God...he cannot know them because they are Spiritually discerned" (I Cor. 2:14).