Five Questions That Christians Can't Answer

[crazy-tiger]

Thanks crazy-tiger for sharing the website's Guidelines. According to that, I don't qualify to post here because I'm not an ex-Christian. I will comply with the rules and leave if you would like me to but I very much would like to continue talking with you all. I'm not the type of person that bashes or tears people down (not intentionally) and the conversations could be interesting. I'll leave it up to you guys to decide. For now, I'll at least complete this post.

You read things into it that aren't there... it says the forum is for the express purpose of encouraging Ex-Christians... says nothing of it being an Ex-Christian only forum.

 

In other words, you're welcome to post... though if you start trying to preach to us, well... there's a good reason why it's called "The Lion's Den"

 

 

 

Anyway... on with the post.

Crazy-tiger

So... all those things you say are there only when Love, Life and Light are absent are pretty obviously there when Love, Life and Light ARE there.

 

I agree that both sides are present in this realm but the topic was Hell and the Bible says Hell is without God.

 

Crazy-tiger

Yeah well... since God is supposedly OMNIPRESENT... as in, he is everywhere, without exception... well, guess there can't be a lack of his presence.

An artist has access to the entire canvas but that doesn't mean he as to use it all.

An artist isn't omnipresent...

 

See, that's a bit of a problem. Since God is omnipresent, he is everywhere... no exceptions. If hell is only hell because God isn't there, and since God is everywhere with no exceptions, hell can't be hell.

 

It's interesting how the way you got out of one contradiction resulted in another contradiction... one that goes right against the Bible.

Crazy-tiger

So you've decided not to accept him for what he is...

 

You quoted me, how did I give you the impression that I didn't choose Him?

Well, considering all the stuff God is down on record as doing in the OT, which you decided was too contradictory... it's painfully obvious that you created your own image of what God is like and chose that instead of accepting God as he is.

Crazy-tiger

Oh... we have lots of questions.

 

Somehow though, I doubt that the answers you give will be any different to answers we've heard and rejected dozens of times before. (assuming you answer them... all too often, we get people dancing around and giving us non-answers to our questions...)

What's your personal goal in this forum? Are you looking for answers to questions or going out of you way to find ways to avoid agreeing with anything? I don't have a problem with you rejecting\disagreeing with anything I say. I'm not here to defend or prove what I believe and I'm not here to defend God for that matter. And I am definitely not here to represent Christianity because there are so many different beliefs in the whole. Although all the Christian groups believe in the same basic principle about who God is. I simply like to share thoughts and hear how other people feel about things. Even if those things are 'out-there' to my line of thinking. Sometimes I can get answers to my questions in the most unlikely places. Answering questions is ok but trying to answer everyone's post - that's time consuming. If it becomes too many, I won't be able to get to everyone.

My personal goal here? To assist in the dissemination of information/knowledge that will aid others in their quest to recover from the religions that are collectively known as Christianity...

 

That includes things like simply commiserating with someone over the reaction to their deconversion, "dry" rebutalls to scientific lies used to prove something wrong, (Hovind and Evolution is a classic example of that, by the way) more "heated" responses in reply to emotional blackmail posts... there are many ways that I can accomplish my goal.

 

 

I hope that answers your question there.

[Ramen666]

Looks like we got another True Christian that has found this forum. Welcome to the boards Light Follower, what is your pourpose here? To enlighten us, tell us about how Jeezus loves us and we can still be saved, how will we will burn in hell. What else that we should think black and white and the world is good vs evil, that the Bible is 100% truth and flawless, that God is perfect all powerful and loving., that wait it was OUR faults that Eve sinned when God set all the conditions, that Pug, Open Minded are going to hell because they are not of your denoemenation?

 

A Christian comes here for a reason and what is yours?, feel free to preach it is the Lions Den tell us how we are hellbound and Gawd would watch children burn to death and you call it love.. you go ahead reply feel fee.

[xild]

Yeah, I didn't see anyone threatening to ban Light Follower (by the way, I keep wanting to type 'Light Bearer" too, for some reason).

 

I think Taphophila's link is a good one if you truly want to understand, Light Follower, why anyone would give up all that love and understanding on a deep personal level with the God of the Bible. Once you understand some of the stuff on that page, and this one: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/Constantine.htm, you can very easily just shuck your shoulders and walk away from him. It's like he doesn't even exist!

 

I've corresponded with you below, on some of the stuff you asked.

 

Light as in God and light from say the sun is not the same type of light. If you truly don't know the difference, I probably could look up the root meaning of those words. I don't mind, just ask.

Don’t bother. I would just give you another cheesy analogy to show how God’s light isn’t necessarily good; or is more awful than good.

 

After all the back and forth above I need to focus in a bit, because you did answer my most burning questions. Who you think God is and why do you love him. As you'll see it’s the nature of your love that is curious, to me.

 

Who is this being? That is a deep question. The short answer I just see Him as a being who desires to share His love but ultimately wants to be loved. He needs us as much as we need Him. When He created the angels there were 'programmed' to love Him. They didn't have a choice except for Lucifer because the Bible says he was full of wisdom so he knew right from wrong. That's why He created mankind. He wanted beings, us, to love Him on our own free will, not be forced to. That's how I see Him and I believe most Christians would probably agree. I'm not sure if that was what you were looking for.

 

That’s such a nice story, that’s all it is, to me though. Certainly if a creator made us he did it out of need. He needed something. That’s noble and good and worthy of praise, I guess. Until I look around at the human suffering that just is. Why it is has to do with a choice our original parents made because God tempted them with a choice: the choice of knowledge or ignorance. They chose knowledge so now our bodies decay from the moment we are born, lovely.

 

Even still I can understand how boring it would be to be here on the planet forever so dying may not be such a bad thing, but is that all there is to the punishment, no. You say it is eternal blackness, some other church says it is superworms eating your superbody for all eternity in the pit of a burning fire. In any event because they chose knowledge, and that is a bad thing, mankind needed redeeming, and needy god can’t be bothered setting things right so he sent a half human here to save us. How? By shedding blood, dying on a cross. I've heard it said this is nothing more than human sacrifice, or maybe half human half god sacrifice but in any event it is a story that is older than Jesus, the dying god who is resurrected story--Jesus was not the first god to do it.

 

But back to the story. God's son died horribly in order for us to be redeemed. But even this wasn’t enough; humans must first agree to believe this story, and do a number of other things not conducive to logic or the nature “god gave us.” Once again, we have to choose logic over ignorance. It's circular. God is a crafty bastard. You gotta love him.

 

I can't speak for other Christians but I do love God for who He is. Just like any other relationship, there are times that I get pissed off and I tell Him to. He's big enough to take it and I know He still loves me anyway. There were times He had every right to walk away from me because of some of the hurtful things I've said but He didn't. Looking back I wouldn't have blamed Him if He did.

I see you take the personal relationship with God very personally. I must grant you your imaginings. And when I say the following please know I am not being hostile; I am sincere. You do understand that to me this sounds like the fantasy of someone who is lacking a love life with a real person, right? Be careful. People have been known to suffer psychotic breaks or worse.... If you must have this type of relationship with God you might want to consider balancing your life out with lots and lots of reality based things, like scientific inquiry, anything to make you think critically more often than not. If not only because your internal life is so "rich."

 

And finally, you wrote:

 

As far as having a conversation with God is not that uncommon. You have been out of church for a long time. It's the season we are living in is why more people are hearing from Him now then ever any time in the past. Many refer to this season as the Last days. You don't have to be special or hold a special position in the church to hear from Him, He'll talk to you too if you are willing to wait for His answer. I won't lie to you, sometimes that is a long time. As far as my last post - I created it that way more for simplicity sake. The whole conversation did not happen in one sitting. I got a little piece here and later, a little there until it all the pieces fell into place. That's why I mentioned that it came pieces at a time. It would be great if it came in one sitting and for some it happens but not for me anyway.

 

I’ve been out of church for a long time yes, and it’s been good for me. My family is still in it though and they preach end times too. You are a fundamentalist then, right? I ask because I wonder if you know what your church is, and where they stand politically and whether they subscribe to Dominionism, for example. There are so many churches from which to choose, knowing what you believe first, then finding one that works with your belief would be the way to go, would it not? The reason I bring this up is that you said you don’t belong to a controlling church and yet you believe in end times.

 

I am wondering how they get you to believe that typical thoughts to yourself are actual conversations with God. People have these types of internal dialogues all the time. They don't literally hear voices no but internal dialogue can take a wide variety of forms! You need to be careful, again, this time because the unconscious is a very powerful "thing." As an artist I am continually amazed at what I find there, things I could never have dreamed I could imagine, and it behaves in quite the impersonal way, quite separate from our conscious selves. Things will forever remain black in white, if that's what you think you need, or, your unconscious thinks you need. The trick is personal growth so that type of thing is no longer needed. But the unconscious will always seek out what it needs, too, usually when you are ready, and in some very unusual ways. I love the unconscious mind, it is awesome.

 

Hmmm... I guess if you believe in end times you don’t have to worry about smoking then, do you?

 

Oh, one more thing.

I meant God lied to Adam and Eve, pardon me. And unless Adam and Eve were intended originally to perpetually create children who would also procreate and never die—if that were the original plan—then I can only believe God meant immediate death upon eating of the tree (“thou shalt surely die”). But then, Genesis and the rest of the Holy Bible is rife with errors and contradictions, things that looking up the root meaning can not explain.

[NotBlinded]

Misjudged you guys? No, I'm not passing judgment against anyone. I just wanted to see how you guys felt about things and me being here. You know, I'm grateful for my relationship with God even though it hasn't always been easy. I love Him and will never leave. So I was wondering… you said that you were once where I am now. Why did you leave if you feel the same way about God as I do now?

Welcome Light Follower.

 

I am just going to be blunt here and say this: What you are in love with is a story. You are in love with the words that paint a mental idol of what God is. This is why you find it hard to believe that anyone can be spiritual without any God belief. IMO, all there is is what God is. Spirituality is very rare amongst the religious for the very reason of claiming knowledge of God. True spirituality comes in when you stand in awe of the mystery of the universe (God). The unknown can't be named without making it profane.

 

People take the most unknowable mystery and try to convey what it is like with words. If people don't understand that the words are not the mystery but mere symbols, then mental idols occur and you are left worshiping a story and that is not very spiritual at all.

 

This is a side-effect of language. When we label something, we think we understand exactly what it is. That is not so. We ascribe a name to something we see, let's call it a tree, we are then able to communicate to each other what we are talking about. What we don't realize is that we have no idea what a tree is. We can describe it with science, but what is it really? Are we our names? That is the same mystery that is God. You label it and think that the label IS it. Again, not so.

 

If we really have no idea of what something is that is in front of us, how much more so when speaking of God?

[NotBlinded]

It's also interesting how Christians attribute to god thanks for things they were supposedly saved from in every day life as they live in their nice, soft, and forgiving countries. Isn't god powerful enough to offer the same help to the citizens of Rowanda and other places stacked with war, starvation and disease? Isn't it rather shallow that Westerners thank god for their meals and for paying their electricity bills when a mother in Rowanda prays with desperate tears for god to save her children even as they die horrifically?

That is one thing that will still just grate on my nerves Vigile. I agree wholeheartedly. It's just another ego rub disguised as gratitude.

[Skankboy]

Because when He is says something it is usually unrelated to what I'm thinking. He rarely answers a question right away and when I least expect it, is when it happens. Yes, He is the Christian God of the Bible whom I am speaking of.

It's called your subconscious...

[crazy-tiger]

IMO, all there is is what God is. Spirituality is very rare amongst the religious for the very reason of claiming knowledge of God. True spirituality comes in when you stand in awe of the mystery of the universe (God). The unknown can't be named without making it profane.

You know... that is so very close to my own belief.

[Guest Light_Follower]

. Why did you leave if you feel the same way about God as I do now?

 

Sorry, I got your name wrong. The following site pretty much sums up why I left the faith.

 

Christian origins

 

Taph

 

That’s OK, not a problem.

 

Thanks for sharing how you felt. I was just curious, that’s all.

[Guest Light_Follower]

It's also interesting how Christians attribute to god thanks for things they were supposedly saved from in every day life as they live in their nice, soft, and forgiving countries. Isn't god powerful enough to offer the same help to the citizens of Rowanda and other places stacked with war, starvation and disease?

 

When I mentioned that He saved me from nasty things I wasn't referring to finances. Although He has helped out there too. I was referring to life-threatening situations. When I was younger, I had the uncanny knack of being in the wrong places at the wrong time.

 

God warned in the Bible that this would be a part of life until He comes again. In fact, He warned that the closer it came to His coming, the worse it would get.

 

Isn't it rather shallow that Westerners thank god for their meals and for paying their electricity bills when a mother in Rowanda prays with desperate tears for god to save her children even as they die horrifically?

 

Do you really think that us Westerners do not deal with the same thing within our borders? We have small patches of communities that are far away from civilization as a whole who are living off the fat of the land. Starving and in need of medicine. When they are found of course they are helped but I wonder how many we are missing? We Westerners give out more money than any other country; we do what we can. The Christian community as a whole does what they can too and one of the largest ministries in the world is in Rowanda right now. Food, medicine and other personal needs are being shipped in. When it comes to nations, God uses people to help people.

 

You claim that hell is the absence of god. Yet the bible and christians in general claim that god is omnipresent. How could one then be out of god's presence?

 

Do you honestly see God as someone who is in a frozen state or 'stuck', with the inability to move around when He desires to do so?

 

The bible and christians also claim that god is omnicient (all knowing). This means that he knew when he created hell that not only fallen angels would go there, but also people. He knew before I was born that despite my best efforts to maintain my faith that I would eventually lose it to reason, yet he chose to create me knowing full well that under his system I would be born for hell.

 

You have a choice to accept Him or reject Him. If God only created people that would accept Him, where does free will come into play? How would you know that you have a right to make a choice?

 

My claim that a leprachan speaks to me is a good example. If I told you that I was serious about that claim, you would want an equal level of proof to back up this claim of mine, otherwise you are just going to write me off as a liar or a nut job.

 

You're under the assumption that I'm going to pass judgment against you. I'm not about to do that. Whether I agree or disagree with your life style or what I think is irreverent. You have the right to live your life as you see fit, without me judging you or anyone else. It would be a better world if people would accept people for who there are, regardless if they agree with them or not. Of course that doesn't include anything that breaks the law. Murders and rapist for example is obviously not acceptable behavior - I'm speaking in general terms. For example, I have friends who are gay and for me, that life style is wrong. But I'm not about to criticize them for it or pass judgment against them - they know my position on it. They also know that they can ask me anything about God or anything else without me tearing them down or making them feel bad, and they do so quite often. I try to accept people on where they are in life and I don't try to change them - not my job. I just share what I know that is true to me. (Keywords - 'true to me') And really try to listen to what someone else says or how they feel about something.

[Guest Light_Follower]

I don't make the claim that there is no god. Others make the claim that there is. I await evidence. If I am offered reasonable evidence, I am willing to change my position. I've examined the evidence offered by most appologists, and like others here, found it wanting.

 

At least you have an open mind. Why would you want to try to get evidence through another human being? If you really want to know and are willing to wait for the answer, God will do something about it if you ask. He looks at the heart to see if you really mean it. If you don't, then don't expect an answer from Him. If you do mean it then the next step is patience. Most of the time He is not quick to answer. I'm not saying that He won't, it's just not likely. If you put a timeline on Him, I'm 99% sure you won't get an answer within that time, either. But when He does answer, it's usually when you least expect it and almost always in a way that you are not expecting. I guess what I'm trying to say is, relying on another human being for evidence is not the best way to go when you can go to the Source instead.

[Guest Light_Follower]

In other words, you're welcome to post... though if you start trying to preach to us, well... there's a good reason why it's called "The Lion's Den"

 

LOL. You don't have to worry about me preaching to you, I don't like being preached at either. The Pastors I sit under teach, not preach. I'm pleased to know that I'm welcomed to post, thank you.

 

Well, considering all the stuff God is down on record as doing in the OT, which you decided was too contradictory... it's painfully obvious that you created your own image of what God is like and chose that instead of accepting God as he is.

 

I don't understand where you thought I decided that the OT was too contradictory. I never said that I'm not willing to talk about that. The way I see God is not unique, millions of people worldwide see Him the same way I do. Within the Christian community there are denominational groups like Methodist, Baptist, Catholics and many more. Then there are the non-denominational groups who believe in the same basic principals of who God is but not in some of man's doctrine or some of others interpretations. For example, Catholics believe that they should worship Mary, Jesus' mother. For other Christian believers, this is a form of idolatry. I belong to the non-denominational group.

 

About the omnipresent topic, I answered this in a post to Vigile del fuoco.

 

My personal goal here? To assist in the dissemination of information/knowledge that will aid others in their quest to recover from the religions that are collectively known as Christianity...

 

That includes things like simply commiserating with someone over the reaction to their deconversion, "dry" rebutalls to scientific lies used to prove something wrong, (Hovind and Evolution is a classic example of that, by the way) more "heated" responses in reply to emotional blackmail posts... there are many ways that I can accomplish my goal.

 

 

I hope that answers your question there.

 

Yeap, that answered my question. Thanks for being candid but I'm not about to get into any 'heated' debates with you. I'll listen to what you have to say and share what I think but I'm not going to argue with you. I don't have any desire to do that. I know there are Christians who can become 'pushy' but I'm not one of them because it happened to me before I was a Christian. All it did at the time was to push me further away.

[Guest Light_Follower]

I just want to let you know that I'm not ignoring the rest of the posts. I have something that I need to take care of. I'll try to get back with you tomorrow or the next day at the latest.

[Ramen666]

I just want to let you know that I'm not ignoring the rest of the posts. I have something that I need to take care of. I'll try to get back with you tomorrow or the next day at the latest.

 

 

Ok, good for you we thought we may of scared you off. I want to see the reply, a Christian that actually will reply to all posts. 1 in a million wow there is a first for everything. Again welcome to the boards I feel good debates coming up soon.

[euphgeek]

You claim that hell is the absence of god. Yet the bible and christians in general claim that god is omnipresent. How could one then be out of god's presence?

 

Do you honestly see God as someone who is in a frozen state or 'stuck', with the inability to move around when He desires to do so?

No, but if God is omnipresent, then he cannot not be somewhere because then he wouldn't be omnipresent. It's a contradiction, see?

[crazy-tiger]

IWell, considering all the stuff God is down on record as doing in the OT, which you decided was too contradictory... it's painfully obvious that you created your own image of what God is like and chose that instead of accepting God as he is.

 

I don't understand where you thought I decided that the OT was too contradictory. I never said that I'm not willing to talk about that. The way I see God is not unique, millions of people worldwide see Him the same way I do. Within the Christian community there are denominational groups like Methodist, Baptist, Catholics and many more. Then there are the non-denominational groups who believe in the same basic principals of who God is but not in some of man's doctrine or some of others interpretations. For example, Catholics believe that they should worship Mary, Jesus' mother. For other Christian believers, this is a form of idolatry. I belong to the non-denominational group.

 

About the omnipresent topic, I answered this in a post to Vigile del fuoco.

Well, when you say that a loving God torturing people is contradictory...

 

Seriously, with all the stuff God did in the OT, you concentrated on the problem of Hell? The funny thing is, so do all too many Christians. They try to reason a way for God to be both loving and cruel, or just ignore the cruel things God does to humanity... not realising that by doing so, they're no longer praising God, just their own image of God. That, by the way, is also Idolatry...

 

And about the Omnipresent topic... Euphgeek managed to point out just what the problem with your answer is, so I really don't need to.

My personal goal here? To assist in the dissemination of information/knowledge that will aid others in their quest to recover from the religions that are collectively known as Christianity...

 

That includes things like simply commiserating with someone over the reaction to their deconversion, "dry" rebutalls to scientific lies used to prove something wrong, (Hovind and Evolution is a classic example of that, by the way) more "heated" responses in reply to emotional blackmail posts... there are many ways that I can accomplish my goal.

 

 

I hope that answers your question there.

 

Yeap, that answered my question. Thanks for being candid but I'm not about to get into any 'heated' debates with you. I'll listen to what you have to say and share what I think but I'm not going to argue with you. I don't have any desire to do that. I know there are Christians who can become 'pushy' but I'm not one of them because it happened to me before I was a Christian. All it did at the time was to push me further away.

If true, then it'll be a refreshing change... but you have to understand, we've had Christians claim they won't be pushy before, just before they turn into raving evangelisers.

[Vigile]

 

Sigh... I'm sorry LF, I could easily go through and provide a refute to each point you made but what's the point? Your answers have been refuted sooooo many times on this site by me and others and each refutation ends up with more apologist psychobabble.

 

I suggest you visit this website and see if you can wiggle your way out of these problems: http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/

 

It's quite obvious to all of us here that you are deluded. The sad thing is that it is only you that cannot see that you are deluded. I have found, and am reminded once again by you that to reason with one who is in fact deluded, is a waste of time.

 

You seem like a nice person. I'm not trying to insult you or your intelligence. I consider myself an intelligent person and I to was once deluded as you. I wish you luck with your journey. I pitty you that you have to endure such a painful delusion as Christianity - though I'm sure you tell yourself that it is wonderful and peaceful even as you struggle in your frustrating daily walk against impossible standards.

 

Best of luck to you.

[NotBlinded]

IMO, all there is is what God is. Spirituality is very rare amongst the religious for the very reason of claiming knowledge of God. True spirituality comes in when you stand in awe of the mystery of the universe (God). The unknown can't be named without making it profane.

You know... that is so very close to my own belief.

Cool beans!

 

I have found that the most spiritual people are those that reject religion. Religion stagnates this wonder because it gives answers to something that can't be described. What is left to wonder about if it's all there in black and white? The words are supposed to help one "feel" this wonder, not to cause one to think they "know" it.

[NotBlinded]

Do you honestly see God as someone who is in a frozen state or 'stuck', with the inability to move around when He desires to do so?

Let me ask you a question:

 

Do you honestly think that God belongs to Christianity? How small an idol that is...

 

If you are honest with yourself, you will understand that all religions are telling their story on what they think God is. They are stories of their life and their understanding in their time. They are supposed to inspire feelings of wonderment in the reader. They are not supposed to create a mental idol. They are myths. This doesn't mean that they are untrue, but they are only true when you understand their purpose.

 

It seems that you have an understanding of God that is in a frozen state called Christianity. I'm not saying that all Christians are like this. Some have grown beyond the desire for definitive answers and then can understand what their own book is telling them. Most people here recognize that there is no one group of people that have all the answers. They have outgrown the desire to have answers given to them about something that no one can claim to have the answer to.

 

Sometimes you have to read other myths to get away from the desire to take it as fact. Once you do that, you can come back to your own and find many things that were never seen before. They are all talking about that one source...that source that is ultimately unknown and will remain so. You can't know it with your mind, you can only feel its truth. The words are supposed to point you, but not be taken for what they are trying to point you to.

[crazy-tiger]

IMO, all there is is what God is. Spirituality is very rare amongst the religious for the very reason of claiming knowledge of God. True spirituality comes in when you stand in awe of the mystery of the universe (God). The unknown can't be named without making it profane.

You know... that is so very close to my own belief.

Cool beans!

 

I have found that the most spiritual people are those that reject religion. Religion stagnates this wonder because it gives answers to something that can't be described. What is left to wonder about if it's all there in black and white? The words are supposed to help one "feel" this wonder, not to cause one to think they "know" it.

Exactly!

[Lycorth]

Light_Follower, why should we worship your god? He is evil.

 

Numbers 21 and Deuteronomy 20 show him ordering the genocide of peoples such as the Canaanites and Amorites.

 

There's Joshua 7:18-25: The stoning and burning of Achan and his sons, daughters, animals and tent.

 

Judges 11: The murder of Jephthah's daughter and the human sacrifice of his innocent, obedient, virgin daughter and only child.

 

Samuel 24: 9-25: God strikes down 70,000 of King David's men for something David himself did - and the men were innocent of.

 

2 Kings 2:23-24: Elisha mocked by some children and Elisha's cursing of them and God's sending of bears to kill the kids.

 

Or how about 1 Chronicles 13:8-12: Uzza touches the Ark of the Covenant (after God evidently permits it to slip and fall in the first place) by accident, and is killed by God.

 

I could go on, but my point is clear.

 

Light_Follower, the god of the Babble is an unrepentant, bloodthirsty egomaniac without the slightest hint of genuine love or mercy in his whole being, not to mention a complete lack of evidence for his existence. Even if he was real, I'd still defy him, because he is utterly and totally evil.

 

Do yourself a favor and take an honest look at your "holy" book. Then, if you can still say that you love God, despite the horrors and atrocities he is depicted as having done, get some help.

 

I for one have no desire to worship devils.

[Guest Light_Follower]

A Christian comes here for a reason and what is yours?, feel free to preach it is the Lions Den tell us how we are hellbound and Gawd would watch children burn to death and you call it love.. you go ahead reply feel fee.

I'm here because I find you guys interesting. Like I mentioned in another post, sometimes I can find answers to questions in the most unlikely places. Thanks for the offer but I don't preach. And I'm not here to tell anyone that they're going to hell either or anything else like that.

 

Curious... kind of an awkward question but, do you worship Satan? I was just wondering because Satan worshipers (and Christians) say that the number '666' belongs to him. Thanks for the welcome.

[Guest Light_Follower]

Light as in God and light from say the sun is not the same type of light. If you truly don't know the difference, I probably could look up the root meaning of those words. I don't mind, just ask.

Don’t bother. I would just give you another cheesy analogy to show how God’s light isn’t necessarily good; or is more awful than good.

I only mentioned it because I was under the impression that you thought they were one and the same.

 

Until I look around at the human suffering that just is. Why it is has to do with a choice our original parents made because God tempted them with a choice: the choice of knowledge or ignorance. They chose knowledge so now our bodies decay from the moment we are born, lovely.

When you say our original parents, I'm assuming you are referencing Adam & Eve. I'll try to keep this as short as possible. When Adam & Eve were created they didn't 'grow-up' like we did. They were fully developed spiritually and physically. In other words, they were already fully aware of everything good and who God is and knew exactly who they were. Everything they needed was provided and there wasn't any sickness, disease or death at that point. Animals didn't kill each other and everything lived in harmony. God even gave them dominion over the earth. When Christians pray we need to say "In Jesus name". Adam didn't have to because of the dominion or authority that was given to him. He spoke and anything under his authority did what he asked. In other words, he didn't have to say "In the name of Jesus", he commanded and it happened. The only knowledge they lacked was the knowledge of evil. By this point, Lucifer had already fallen and evil came into existence when that happened. The theme of 'free-will' changed because of Lucifer's fall. Now it no longer was just the free-will to love or not to love God, because evil existed. In order to truly have the right to choose, God needed to allow men the ability to choose evil if they wanted. Without the ability, we would not have free-will. As a result, the Tree of Knowledge was planted which contained the knowledge of evil.

 

Most people live in a society where there are a few hundred laws that we have to live by. If we choose to break that law then we also must be willing to pay the consequences of that decision. Adam and Eve didn't have a few hundred laws, God asked them not to do 'one' thing and they couldn't even do that. When they made a choice to disobey God, not only were they changed because now they could physically die they also gave up the dominion of the earth and Satan became the "god of this world" or the "ruler of this world". The earth became cursed and sickness, disease and death were created. God wasn't tempting Adam and Eve; He was giving them free will to choose, even though He already knew that they would go against Him. That's the extremely condensed explanation.

 

I see you take the personal relationship with God very personally. I must grant you your imaginings. And when I say the following please know I am not being hostile; I am sincere. You do understand that to me this sounds like the fantasy of someone who is lacking a love life with a real person, right?

I appreciate you saying that you are sincere and not hostile with your question. There are people that I care about and love and one of whom I'm in love with. My relationship with God has made relationships with people better. I had some bad traits that I couldn't change on my own. When I saw in the Bible that He would give me a new heart with new desires, I asked Him for it - He granted it. The first 4 years were the biggest changes and I became a completely different person. The rage, violence and intolerance of other people became a distant memory. Today I care about people just on who they are and nothing more - not what I might be able to get from them or what they could do for me. I'm not pleased to say that I used or hurt people, but I'm grateful with all the changes that God did in me so I could have satisfying relationships. No matter how hard or how many times I tried, I couldn't change on my own.

 

I’ve been out of church for a long time yes, and it’s been good for me. My family is still in it though and they preach end times too. You are a fundamentalist then, right? I ask because I wonder if you know what your church is, and where they stand politically and whether they subscribe to Dominionism, for example.

I'm glad to hear that your family attends. Fundamentalism can be interpreted in different ways. If you're asking if I believe the Bible is the literal word of God then, yes, I do believe that. Yes, I do know where my church stands politically and it doesn't have anything to do taking sides with a 'party'. It's about what the person says and whether or not if it lines up with the Bible. As far as 'Dominionism'? I'm not sure what you are asking. Are you asking about denomination?

 

There are so many churches from which to choose, knowing what you believe first, then finding one that works with your belief would be the way to go, would it not? The reason I bring this up is that you said you don’t belong to a controlling church and yet you believe in end times.

I get the impression and please correct me if I'm wrong, that you believe that any church that teaches on end times is controlling. I know a lot of churches who are not that way. Prophecy has always fascinated me even before I was Christian. It's kind of cool to see some of it come to pass in our generation. It's one of my favorite topics. As far as selecting a church, I'll pray about it and wait for a gut feeling or a tug. This usually happens when I'm driving by one. When I listen to that, I'm happy with the results.

 

I am wondering how they get you to believe that typical thoughts to yourself are actual conversations with God. People have these types of internal dialogues all the time.

I'm not sure about who you mean by 'they' but no one has tried to ever convince me that I hear from God. Trying to explain it to some one who never experienced it is as challenging as trying to explain what the color red is to someone who's been blind from birth. To me this is nothing profound, what is profound is other Christians who have trouble hearing from Him. When one becomes a Christian there actually a transfiguration that takes place in the spirit and He becomes apart of you and you of Him. And no, you do not become a god. I can't recall exactly where but the Bible talks about Him sharing His very thoughts with us. Would you want to be in a relationship that was only a one way conversation? He doesn't talk often, at least for me but when He does it's always important. One time I was helping a friend of a friend, who I didn't know, to log some wood. I heard God in a soft but firm voice say "Go!" I don't know why but I didn't want to listen. Then I became uneasy and the feeling kept building. It got to the point of where my heart was racing and then I paid attention and left. Not long after, the guy lost it and starting shooting at people. He was completely out of control and won't listen to reason. Then he got into a shoot-out with the police and they killed him. I was very grateful that I listened to God on that day.

 

Hmmm... I guess if you believe in end times you don’t have to worry about smoking then, do you?

LOL It sounds like you have a little more knowledge in that area then I thought. You're right, I don't worry about it - time is short.

 

But then, Genesis and the rest of the Holy Bible is rife with errors and contradictions, things that looking up the root meaning can not explain.

For me, I don't see contradictions. There are areas that 'appear' that way perhaps to some but I don't make the assumption that they are when I might lack an understanding in that area. I could give you an example but it would take too long to type out. You're welcome to share with me what you find contradictive and I'll try answering you the best I can. If I don't know the answer, I'll be honest and tell you that.

[Guest Light_Follower]

I am just going to be blunt here and say this: What you are in love with is a story. You are in love with the words that paint a mental idol of what God is.

 

If you want to think that I'm in love with a story, that's fine I don't have a problem with that. It's your opinion and I did say that I'm interested in what people thought. I'm confident and content in my relationship with God and I'm not trying to prove anything to you. Thanks for the welcome.

[Guest Light_Follower]

Ok, good for you we thought we may of scared you off. I want to see the reply, a Christian that actually will reply to all posts. 1 in a million wow there is a first for everything. Again welcome to the boards I feel good debates coming up soon.

 

LOL I'm not scared off that easy. I enjoy a good debate too as long as it doesn't become 'heated' - I won't go there. But I do like hearing how people feel about things. Thanks again for the welcome.

[Guest Light_Follower]

It looks like I'm falling behind in answering posts. Man, you guys ask a lot of questions or have something to share. I'm not complaining I'm just having trouble keeping up. It looks like I’ll always be behind, so I hope you can be patient with me. I guess for now on I'll just do what I can with the limited time I have and pickup where I leave off next time. Again, I just can’t get to everyone on this round.

 

I do have a concern. I noticed next to my name it first said Curious and now Questioner. I really don't want to be labeled with some of the ones I see on the board like Doubter, Skeptic, Ex-Christian, etc. Can anyone tell me how many posts I have left before I need to move on? Thanks