"miracles" And The Impossible

[Mythra]

I know it's very difficult. But try and step back and imagine that you had never heard the gospel story. Never went to Sunday School as a child. Never had parents that convinced you very early in life the stories of Noah, and Jonah and Moses and Joshua and Jesus actually happened.

 

So, here you are as an adult. Who has at least a rudimentary understanding of science and physics and the natural world.

 

And, someone comes up to you and starts telling you about a book. He claims the book was written by a diety.

 

And tries to convince you that these events really happened:

 

A guy built a boat. Big enough to carry two of every animal on the face of the earth. Then, he gathered up two of every animal on the face of the earth. Puts them on the boat. Survives a world-wide flood.

 

A guy gets swallowed by a whale. Stays there inside the whale for few days. Gets spat out and goes to a town and preaches.

 

A guy lifts up his arms, and a sea splits in two, leaving dry ground that everyone can walk through.

 

Another guy lifts up his arms, and the sun stands still in the sky. For 24 hours.

 

A guy walks across a sea.

 

A guy that's buried in a cave and dead for three days, walks out and says hi to everyone.

 

And, everyone who believes these things will one day get to fly up into the sky - and meet the deity up above the clouds. And live there. Forever.

 

We accepted these stories for so long, by the simple explanation "miracle". Which really is no better explanation than "magic". Let's face it. These things are all impossibilities. Period.

 

What would you think of the person who told you that you had to believe these things happened, or else you would be punished after you die?

 

Tell me you wouldn't notify Mental Health Services.

[Scarlett]

What would you think of the person who told you that you had to believe these things happened, or else you would be punished after you die?

 

Tell me you wouldn't notify Mental Health Services.

 

I would notify mental health services, no question. I still can't believe people believe stuff like that in this day in age.

[Mythra]

I'd find it laughable - if I hadn't bought off on it for so many years myself. Now, I just find it sad.

 

As the vivid memories of being a christian start to fade, so does my understanding of just how it was that I so thoroughly bought into it. Even the ludicrous and preposterous parts. Even the parts that an educated seven-year-old knows couldn't have happened.

 

It's very odd.

[Amanda]

Tell me you wouldn't notify Mental Health Services.

 

Mythra, the problem is that the person at Mental Health Services may be on the other guy's side!

So I make the call and they side with him, now what?

 

Heck, I can't laugh about it either, as I use to believe the Noah's Flood literally to a great degree... not entirely. I'm wondering how many other cultural biases we still have...

 

although things are a lot more clear now than they use to be.

[Mythra]

Hey Amanda! Haven't seen you for a long time... How's tricks, kiddo?

[Taphophilia]

Hi Amanda, Good to see you here.

 

Back to topic.

 

People are put away and locked up nowadays for claiming that God ordered them to do bad things but are looked upon as saints when God tells them to do good deeds. God tells you to sacrifice your baby for him. You're nuts. God tells you to feed 100 people in a soup kitchen. You have a direct channel to the devine. So, why is it, that when god talks to someone, people think he's only telling them to do good for humanity. That's not even biblical. Destroying others is more in tune with what god orders people to do.

[Mythra]

Good point, Taph. So, I wonder if they have studied the mental mechanism in which faith shuts down critical thinking.

 

Most of these things are so painfully obvious to people who aren't immersed in the religion.

 

Even modern-day "miracles". The term is used so sloppily.

 

I'm watching the news right now about a couple of kidnapped kids who were found and returned home after four years. It's great. I'm very happy for the families of these little kids. But it wasn't a miracle. I'm sorry. It wasn't.

 

A miracle is something that is impossible without God's hand at work. And those don't happen. Ever. Except in story books.

[Taphophilia]

When we first moved to Florida, my kids and I went to church for about three months, which was how long we could take it. My mom's dream was that we be this Christian family, so out of respect for my mom my kids and I went to her church.

 

Now, my kids knew the basics of Christianity, having gone to church when they were little, but by now they were in their early teens. Up to this point my kids had given me a hard time telling me that I was prejudiced againt Christianity and telling me it was just a religion, blah, blah, blah, how could it be as bad as I painted it to be. Well, going to church they finally understood where I was coming from.

 

My kids thought the people were crazy. My middle daughter was permenantly banned from Sunday School because she questioned their beliefs and asked them to provide proof. My children were viewed as disruptive and disobedient. So much so, that my mother was sorry that she ever begged us to go to her church in the first place. It's taken her a while to live down her evil spawn grandchildren.

[Amanda]

Hi Amanda, Good to see you here.

 

Back to topic.

 

People are put away and locked up nowadays for claiming that God ordered them to do bad things but are looked upon as saints when God tells them to do good deeds. God tells you to sacrifice your baby for him. You're nuts. God tells you to feed 100 people in a soup kitchen. You have a direct channel to the devine. So, why is it, that when god talks to someone, people think he's only telling them to do good for humanity. That's not even biblical. Destroying others is more in tune with what god orders people to do.

 

Hi Mythra and Taphophilia! I've have to go out of town a lot and miss you guys.

 

Back to topic:

It's sad that Andrea Yates thought she had to kill her kids to save their souls. She felt they were going astray and that she was a bad mother causing them to lose their souls' eternal life in heaven once they reached the age of accountability, and doomed to hell. The thing that got me is that the news media seemed to be emphasizing the blame on 'baby blues'.

 

It seems there is some media to support these myths involved with Christianity. I saw a lot of it on the History Channel during the holidays. It spoke of the Druid's influence (Christmas Tree) and other Pagan traditions alligned with our holidays. I learned that Christmas is celebrated on Mythra's birthday... so I'm a little late but Happy Birthday Mythra!

 

I'm curious if this awareness of ancient mythology culminating into our own present cultural beliefs struck others the way it did me when I first learned of it on this site. Don't you think there is a movement exposing all this now... or is it just me coming into this realization? Are people just blind to the evidence till they are smacked in the face with it?

[Mythra]

I'm curious if this awareness of ancient mythology culminating into our own present cultural beliefs struck others the way it did me when I first learned of it on this site. Don't you think there is a movement exposing all this now... or is it just me coming into this realization? Are people just blind to the evidence till they are smacked in the face with it?

 

Well, they aren't new discoveries. The pagan influences and similarities have been known for a very long time. (but you have to be a little careful - sometimes they are overstated, without concrete proof)

 

But one thing has changed. The internet. People are now able to look into things. Without the danger of being caught with a book (of evil) in your hands.

 

It's a whole lot harder now to keep the masses unified in their thinking.

 

The dark ages are behind us. (for now, at least)

 

If fundyism (either christian or muslim) wins the day - don't think that we couldn't someday return.

[Mythra]

So much so, that my mother was sorry that she ever begged us to go to her church in the first place. It's taken her a while to live down her evil spawn grandchildren.

 

That was a funny story, Taph.

 

Can't have any people actually engaging their brains in church now, can we? Your story gives me hope that religion will never again rule the world.

[Taphophilia]

It was an eye opening to see my kids reaction to Christianity, I had heard it my whole life, so it was old hat to me, even though I didn't believe it any longer. After the whole church fiasco my parents were still intent on my kids becoming good little Christain soldiers that they were going to send them to the big Christan Academy here. My kids told my parents they would rather have needles shoved under their fingernails than go to a Christian school.

 

I think for a lot of people it's the frog being slowly boiled to death. Most people just accept it as true without ever questioning the why's or the how's. They start with small impossibilities and work their way up to the outragous.

[Mythra]

I think for a lot of people it's the frog being slowly boiled to death. Most people just accept it as true without ever questioning the why's or the how's. They start with small impossibilities and work their way up to the outragous.

 

And religions know this. Hence, the instruction to "train up a child in the way he should go".

 

I didn't really grow up in a religious environment (well, the undertones were there, but I wasn't spoon-fed the stuff).

 

I often wonder if I had been, if I would have been able to escape. Shudder.

[Amanda]

A miracle is something that is impossible without God's hand at work. And those don't happen. Ever. Except in story books.

 

You're right when you say this term is sloppily used. When these doctors operated on conjoined twins successfully, people call it a 'miracle'. However, how far we are able to push ourselves is amazing! There seems to be something within us that drives us to go beyond what we consider ourselves to be capable. 200 years ago... who would have thought we'd be having cell phones, TV, radio, trips to Mars, etc.? It seems as if we can dream it, we can achieve it! We seem to be evolving more compassionate too.

 

My middle daughter was permenantly banned from Sunday School because she questioned their beliefs and asked them to provide proof.

 

That seems that would be a 'red flag' to your mom. Did you ask your mom what was so wrong with that?

 

But one thing has changed. The internet. People are now able to look into things. Without the danger of being caught with a book (of evil) in your hands.

 

Danger of thinking differently! That's kinda ironic, as that is how I think it use to be for the early Christians.

 

I think for a lot of people it's the frog being slowly boiled to death. Most people just accept it as true without ever questioning the why's or the how's. They start with small impossibilities and work their way up to the outragous.

 

I think it is worse than that! I think we are born into it and these ideas are dealt with as presuppositions, which is one of the most powerfully successful ways to deliver a suggestion. It mentally goes unchallenged. If a frog is born into very warm oil, how does he know the difference... unless someone shows him what it's like to be out of the oil?

[Taphophilia]

That seems that would be a 'red flag' to your mom. Did you ask your mom what was so wrong with that?

 

My mother says that her grandchildren are not your typical children and people are not used to intellegent inquisitive children. Her grandchildren just happen to be really smart and people are not prepared for that. (Not really, they just have an Ex-Christian for a mother.) Incidentally, my mom mixes her Christian beliefs with astrology, New Age stuff, psychics, NDE's, the paranormal, ghosts, etc. So, although my mom was disappointed that her grandchildren rejected Christianity, she's content to think that we at least believe in God.

[Jubilant]

I'd find it laughable - if I hadn't bought off on it for so many years myself. Now, I just find it sad.

 

As the vivid memories of being a christian start to fade, so does my understanding of just how it was that I so thoroughly bought into it. Even the ludicrous and preposterous parts.

 

It's very odd.

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

Even the parts that an educated seven-year-old knows couldn't have happened.

 

LOL...that is soooo true and that is for the unbelievable parts! It use to frustrate me like nothing else when I'd try to teach the bible to my logical thinking then 8yo son because he didn't buy anything. We used to argue and I'd get pissed and each night I'd worry about him growing up and going to hell because he was so stubborn. "Z, the bible says that we need to worship God and praise and sing to him."

 

"Moooom, why?"

 

"Because the bible says so."

 

"But why."

 

"Z, just because it says so right here in this verse."

 

"Why does God care if I sing or not?"

 

"Because he says to sing to him!

 

"I don't want to sing."

 

"It doesn't matter if you want to or not, just do it."

 

Tears flow, he doesn't sing, I go to bed just sick. How pathetic. Hell, it'd of been a miracle if just said, "Oh, okay Mommy, I'll sing." Guess God couldn't pull such a thing off.

[Mythra]

It must have been a little tough to come back some time later and say -

 

Hey Z - remember when you didn't understand why you needed to sing? Well, mommy was kinda confused about things back then.. and you taught mommy an important lesson about the need to question things when they don't seem quite right to you..

 

Oh well. Just be glad you bailed before you did manage to get god permeated into your kids' brains.

[Amethyst]

Hi Amanda, Good to see you here.

 

Back to topic.

 

People are put away and locked up nowadays for claiming that God ordered them to do bad things but are looked upon as saints when God tells them to do good deeds. God tells you to sacrifice your baby for him. You're nuts. God tells you to feed 100 people in a soup kitchen. You have a direct channel to the devine. So, why is it, that when god talks to someone, people think he's only telling them to do good for humanity. That's not even biblical. Destroying others is more in tune with what god orders people to do.

 

I think they do that because it helps them keep believing in the myth. Most people think it's better to believe in a loving, kind god than an uber scary, tyrannical god, so they subconsciously (or even consciously) pick and choose what things help sustain that belief. Really, it's like scattering a bunch of multi-colored pebbles across the ground and looking for the white ones, and saying those are "miracles."

 

The human mind looks for patterns anyway. It's how we learn about things.

[Mythra]

I thought that some of you might enjoy seeing this. It's another video by Richard Dawkins - entitled "The Virus of Faith". It's 47 minutes long. It's quite good.

 

Here