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Goodbye Jesus

A Divine Revelation Of Hell


Guest virraszto

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Reminds me of 23 Minutes in Hell, this hilarious book I saw while doing some Christmas shopping a month ago. Problem is the book isn't meant to amuse; it's meant to scare. If it hadn't been so expensive, I would have bought it to have a good laugh at home.

 

I'd rather read 90 Minutes in Heaven! But I don't believe that story, either.

 

-CC in MA

Yeah, well, you've said you don't believe in hell either and according to jesus you're going to the really real hell (probably into the right leg of the woman laying on her back). So take that.

 

mwc

 

P.S. It's really real! Really!

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Well, if you rip this book on YouTube be sure to do like jesus does and remind your viewers (or readers in the case of the book) every other word that this story is true and that heaven and hell is real. No really. They're real. See how this person is dead and their flesh burns up but bones don't (yet cremation pretty much burns bones somehow) and the soul lives inside the skeleton? Well, that proves hell is really real. It just is real. Really. And it looks like a chick on her back. So pray now.

 

On the plus side apparently men can fuck over their wives as much as they like and the wife just has to forgive them or go the really real hell. Take that wives! You bring it on yourselves according to jesus (who's really real too).

 

He's sorry but all judgements are final...even though Judgement Day technically hasn't happened yet...and demons punish you even though he says hell way created as a place to put the demons as their punishment. Hell sure is complicated.

 

Argh! Reading this book feels like this :poke:

 

mwc

 

 

Why would anyone want hellfire to be real, literal, eternal? I just do not get it! :shrug:

 

-CC in MA

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He's sorry but all judgements are final...even though Judgement Day technically hasn't happened yet...and demons punish you even though he says hell way created as a place to put the demons as their punishment. Hell sure is complicated.

 

No shirt, no shoes, no service. No refunds or exchanges.

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I just do not get it! :shrug:

Well you're gonna get it! :HaHa:

 

Why would anyone want hellfire to be real, literal, eternal?

Take a quick look at this lady's book and maybe you can figure it out. I've had to take a break from her inane ramblings. It's an easy read but it's just so painfully stupid at the same time.

 

It's not because I don't believe the story anymore but it's just that it's almost pandering to the lowest common denominator. It's supposed to be a "Scared Straight" for the hell bound I guess but it's just so shallow (at least to the point I'm at but I see no reason it would suddenly change). Jesus has no deep insight and is barely a tour guide...he's literally more of a flash-light.

 

So if you don't want to be on fire in a little personal pit then believe in jesus. If you don't mind being on fire then I guess you don't have to bother is pretty much what I'm taking away from it so far.

 

mwc

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Guest virraszto

Two more things I'd like to mention about this book. I came to find it from another board where someone was questioning their beliefs. This person asked for posters to reply to help sway this person back to god. This person's mind was made up to return to god from reading this book. OMG!!!

 

It had the total opposite effect on me. I could barely stomache this garbage... all the lies...She mentions seeing an American Flag in Hell... so is this the American Hell? Is there a hell for each country? lol

 

Man, it reminded me of when I used to go to church....the pastor pounding the pulpit putting the "Fear of god" into everyone. Although she was way worse than him, I listened to him and was brainwashed into believing him.

 

And one more thing. IF you click on a link at the top of the page, it will take you to "Her Page". She actually has that old hoax "Sounds of Hell" on her page. She is passing this off as real, to promote her book. She is using this hoax as a way to scare people into believe her bullshit.

 

Sounds of Hell

 

The Truth about hell—A group of Communist Scientist have become believers in the reality of Hell

 

I sure do wish someone would pick this thing apart on utube. There's so much to pick apart!!!

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I sure do wish someone would pick this thing apart on utube. There's so much to pick apart!!!

 

I'm there. I have four hours to kill this afternoon whilst babysitting equipment. You know what I'll be doing...

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Reminds me of 23 Minutes in Hell, this hilarious book I saw while doing some Christmas shopping a month ago. Problem is the book isn't meant to amuse; it's meant to scare. If it hadn't been so expensive, I would have bought it to have a good laugh at home.

 

I'd rather read 90 Minutes in Heaven! But I don't believe that story, either.

 

-CC in MA

Yeah, well, you've said you don't believe in hell either and according to jesus you're going to the really real hell (probably into the right leg of the woman laying on her back). So take that.

 

mwc

 

P.S. It's really real! Really!

 

 

LOL....I'm moving on now ... in my Christian walk.... :woohoo:

 

-CC in MA

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I stumbled upon this site tonight.

 

"Hear the eyewitness testimony on the True Existence of Hell. Mary Katherine Baxter was chosen by God to let the world know of the REALITY of Hell. Jesus Christ appeared to Mary Baxter on 40 consecutive nights and took Mary on a tour of Hell and Heaven. She walked, with Jesus, through the horrors of Hell and talked with many people. Jesus showed her what happens to souls when they die and what happens to the unbelievers and Servants of God who do not obey there calling."

 

 

This woman has wrote a book about her experiences of going to heaven and hell with god. You can read the text on the site and it's also available for download in mp3. I started listening to her, and I just do not understand this.

 

I don't understand how a seemingly normal healthy person can have these visions or whatever they are. If I were hearing voices in my head, I would go to a dr. What is this woman suffering from that would make her believe she spent 40 nights with god walking through heaven and hell?

 

If I still believed in god or jesus, after reading/listening to this woman's story, I would certainly rethink my whole belief system. If, and we know this isn't true, but IF it were, how anyone, much less a loving god allow this to happen???

 

Here's the link. If you just read the first 2 chapters, you'll understand what I'm talking about.

 

Divine Revelation of Hell

 

Hi, the same kind of thing happened to a guy named Ronald Reagan (not the president). Here is the video link on youtube

 

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=THEATEAM07

 

His story is the near death experience vision of hell. I was going to respond to each part (6 parts I think) of this video, but it would be too time consuming. I wanted to share merely the response I typed up for the 1st part (which is enough to know he is a bullshitter).

 

 

I wrote :

 

PART 1

 

 

Hi Youtube community, this is a new response to "To hell and back Part 1" uploaded by THEATEAM07. I have heard of this video (I believe John Hagee the televangelist offered it) and I have heard these types of stories before. However, I take them about as seriously as I take creationism and/or the "mark of the beast" lunacy running around fundy circles.

 

But, just so you know I'm not completely unfair, I will respond to the major points in this video and the subsequent parts of the video.

 

Firstly, the entire idea of "To hell and back" contradicts not only rational thinking, but the bible itself. A passage which many "to hell and back" christians use is Luke 16 as proof that people go to hell and are tormented. They say "It isn't a parable". That is disputable, but there is one major problem with believing Luke 16's account of going to hell. That is that in the story, the rich man asked if Lazarus could go back to warn his 5 brothers about hell, and it said that it couldn't happen, and the brothers had Moses and the prophets to listen to (which leave this entire "hell" doctrine out), so they wouldn't believe someone who came back from the dead.

 

If you think about this, the very premise of this video (To hell and back) completely contradicts the bible itself when it says it cannot happen. Unless they think Jesus is wrong? So, this video series, if it is true, disproves the authenticity of the "word of God" by its very title. If Jesus said skeptics could not believe someone who came back from the dead, then saying those who come back from the dead can be believed would contradict that.

 

The first person named "Ronald Reagan", said his life was a mess and he was doing drugs and all that hooey. It is quite possible that his brain was fucked up before he "died" and saw this vision of hell. After explaining how he was attacked and stabbed by a man in a store, he said he was going to bleed to death. Then the paramedic who was in the ambulance after he left the first hospital (since they thought they couldn't help him), said he needed Jesus Christ. He first said he didn't know what the paramedic was talking about. This is questionable because he said as he arrived in the first hospital, he was unconcious, because he had lost a lot of blood. Why would a paramedic start preaching to a man who is going in and out of consciousness? Not only is that unethical, it is unprofessional.

 

This man was clearly an American with a southern accent who would have known that Christians believe in hell and his view of himself was he was not a Christian, and when the paramedic told him this, the psychology was he hallucinated what he perceived the "hell" of the bible to be.

 

Then the next moment, he said he thought the ambulance had exploded. He said he was moving through the smoke like through a tunnel. At the end of the tunnel, he started to hear the voices of multitudes of people screaming, groaning and crying. He said he looked down and saw a volcanic opening. He could see fire, smoke and people inside of this burning place. They were burning, but they were not being consumed. (By the way it takes about 2-4 hours to fully consume a human body in fire), so how could he know that they weren't being consumed?

 

Then he said he had the sensation of moving downward to it.

 

Then his wife came on the video and said he was thrashing around in the ambulance like a "battle" was happening and she thought it was a spiritual battle. She said it felt like "light and darkness" while she was sitting there beside him. She said he was seeing the vision of hell which is why he was convulsing (or maybe he was convulsing because he was bleeding to death or having a type of seizure?)

 

Then the man comes back on the video and said he could recognize many of the people he saw in these flames. Just one question, how can you recognize faces if it is a place of total darkness (as the bible claims is the description of "hell")? He said it was like a close up lens where he could see their facial features. Yeah right. He was given a pair of binoculars by the Almighty I suppose. He said a number of them called out his name (how would they know it was him?) They told him "Don't come to this place, there is no way out". My question is, why didn't they have the same opportunity to "avoid" going there with their own vision of hell? Once again this asshole contradicts the bible's own claim about hell. It says in Revelation 20:13 that those in hell are delivered out of it and every man is judged by his works. Sort of contrary to what this man is saying huh?

 

He keeps saying he saw these people and what their life was like before they died (2 were drunk drivers who died, 1 died during a robbery,etc). How could he possibly know that? And he admitted he himself was no beacon of light either, so why did he get a chance to "escape" hell and they didn't?

 

Ronald says that the worst pain was the loneliness. Interesting. So, let me see. He said that he saw all these people in the same location, but they were alone? That makes no sense. Also, if you think about it, why would any normal or intelligent person think loneliness was worse than being tortured in a fire forever? I'd rather be alone, but not tortured, than to be tortured with all my friends around me. Then he said the stench was like sulfur (how can he smell if he has no body)? Perhaps what he thought was the stench of sulphur in hell was actually smelling salts applied to keep him conscious?

 

After all this talk, he said he committed manslaughter and was involved with fights with people who got killed. Yeah, like he was any better than these people in hell. Once again, why would any decent god let an asshole like this escape going to hell and not give a decent, moral, citizen who doesn't do crime the same chance? He admits his own argument is delusional by saying he was beat as a child, and went to prison for manslaughter and doing drugs, etc. I think he is making this "to hell and back" shit up to get a name for himself, kind of like those "conspiracy" folks who pretend they were part of the Illuminati but left (Doc Marquis, John Todd, Bill Schnoebelen).

 

Another thing, what about the majority of positive non-Christian near death experiences? Or what about the non-existent near death experiences (where you die on the table and then nothing)? Are we to believe they are all false? Examine what makes the most sense out of them all.

 

If you think about it, when the brain loses oxygen (which certainly happened, since he was bleeding to death), and the brain shuts down, and knowing we dream realistic nightmares or pleasantries when we are unconscious, it is most likely this all was an hallucination/dream which he created. I think the fact the paramedic told him he needed Jesus Christ was also a part of this experience. By saying he needed Jesus Christ upon death, his mind probably scrambled for all the times he heard about Jesus, which probably involved some form of "hell" for non-christians. They do this in hypnotic situations with suggestions of unknown experiences, which they attach to themselves as having, which didn't happen.

 

But, one thing is for certain, he either is honest, but deceived (misinterpreting his hallucination as a vision from God) or he is a con artist trying to make a name for himself (which seems to be the case since they sell this video for like $20).

 

In either case, I am unconvinced of this being a genuine experience.

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She actually has that old hoax "Sounds of Hell" on her page. She is passing this off as real, to promote her book. She is using this hoax as a way to scare people into believe her bullshit.

 

Sounds of Hell

 

The Truth about hell—A group of Communist Scientist have become believers in the reality of Hell

 

I listened to that "sounds of hell" bullshite. After a lengthy, long-winded, and incredibly boring intro, all I heard was what appeared to be simple crowd noise. It sort of sounded like the big noisy gatherings of gaggles at my university that I avoid like the plague. Human mobs can be quite frightening.

 

I guess Sartre was right when he said, "Hell is other people." :grin:

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Wait....Wait...I just thought something that is wrong with this. Kind of an idea to be thrown out their since when does Jesus speak English? Since when does Satan speak perfect english? I forgot the language that the Passion of the Christ was in but isn't that the orginal language anyway?

:shrug:

 

Right there it is man made.

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I took a quick glance at it. Funny, I don't think God would want people to order books for hearing his revelations.

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Jesus is a vampire, he told me, last night. He wanted me to be one too, told me to drink his blood. If hers is true, so is mine.

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I actually read the book as a christian. I liked it too. It was sorta creepy but it didn't bother me cause I liked horror stuff. I remember reading it in chruch so i wouldn't have to listen to the bishop speak. Anyway it's much better than her "Divine Revelation of Heaven" Book. Yawn....

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Well, I've decided to try having another go at this thing and came across this passage:

 

Tenderly Jesus spoke and said, "My child, hell is real. But you could never know for sure until you had experienced it for yourself. Now you know the truth and what it is really like to be lost in hell. Now you can tell others about it. I had to let you go through that so you would know without a doubt."

Why would jesus contradict himself like that? Why would he say that one needs to witness hell for themselves in order to know that it is real and then say that people will believe being told about someone else's experiences of the same?

 

Even the author of the book, and I think xians, understand the underlying problem of their entire "faith based" system. They want proof but are too afraid to ask.

 

Trust me jesus, you allow me to experience the supernatural realms for myself, for 40 nights...and not in some dream state, and I'll reconsider my position on things. But I'm not taking anyone else's word on the subject (although raising my grandparents from the dead and having them witness to the world would be an impressive first step).

 

mwc

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This lady has so many theological errors that this book cannot be believed. I cannot say what her motive is but I suspect it's good ole fashion greed. But what I can't understand is that from what I see of some of the comments here, you guys don't believe her yet you fault God because of what she said. Now THAT isn't logical. You either believe her and fault God, or you don't believe her and keep silent on God. :scratch: (I love these blue smiley guys)

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This lady has so many theological errors that this book cannot be believed. I cannot say what her motive is but I suspect it's good ole fashion greed. But what I can't understand is that from what I see of some of the comments here, you guys don't believe her yet you fault God because of what she said. Now THAT isn't logical. You either believe her and fault God, or you don't believe her and keep silent on God. silverpenny013Hmmm.gif (I love these blue smiley guys)
That's because we tend to operate on the belief that the christian god is non-existent, but argue on the assumption that he does exist.

 

We can fault her for her stupid ideas, but at the same time, if the god she claims to believe in were real, then how could this have happened?

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This lady has so many theological errors that this book cannot be believed. I cannot say what her motive is but I suspect it's good ole fashion greed. But what I can't understand is that from what I see of some of the comments here, you guys don't believe her yet you fault God because of what she said. Now THAT isn't logical. You either believe her and fault God, or you don't believe her and keep silent on God. silverpenny013Hmmm.gif (I love these blue smiley guys)
That's because we tend to operate on the belief that the christian god is non-existent, but argue on the assumption that he does exist.

 

We can fault her for her stupid ideas, but at the same time, if the god she claims to believe in were real, then how could this have happened?

 

Some members believe He exists because one member said He was "stupid". He has believe in Him in order to make that statement. And if you don't believe what this lady says or Jesus but you comment anyway, then I just can't see the point. It seems like wasted words to me. So if you are of that last group, then my comment was not to you.

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Yeah, but what I said was the general MO of the members here. Just because some people speak as though they think he exists, does not mean they think he exists.

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Yeah, but what I said was the general MO of the members here. Just because some people speak as though they think he exists, does not mean they think he exists.

 

Really? Then how can anyone learn, teach, reach a conclusion, or even just discuss anything amidst the confusion? If people say something based on something they don't believe, then conversation has lost its usefullness. It just seems like a lot of unnecessary clutter to me.

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This lady has so many theological errors that this book cannot be believed. I cannot say what her motive is but I suspect it's good ole fashion greed. But what I can't understand is that from what I see of some of the comments here, you guys don't believe her yet you fault God because of what she said. Now THAT isn't logical. You either believe her and fault God, or you don't believe her and keep silent on God. :scratch: (I love these blue smiley guys)

 

Good points, I think.

 

-CC in MA

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Yeah, but what I said was the general MO of the members here. Just because some people speak as though they think he exists, does not mean they think he exists.

 

Definitely. MWC even has such a disclaimer in his signature area.

 

But the point is this: If God does not exist, then all these horror stories about him are not true, either. If God does exist, these horror stories might or might not be true, but that's another issue. It does seem "strange" to read statements such as, "That so-and-so God, he's such a creep, such a villain, such a terrible, sick guy. Of course, he doesn't exist. "

 

-CC in MA

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Definitely. MWC even has such a disclaimer in his signature area.

Tis true tis true. Now you know why that disclaimer is there. :) I got tired of this line of discussion. I'd love to say something cute, clever or pithy in my sig but no. :(

 

mwc

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Yeah, but what I said was the general MO of the members here. Just because some people speak as though they think he exists, does not mean they think he exists.

 

Really? Then how can anyone learn, teach, reach a conclusion, or even just discuss anything amidst the confusion? If people say something based on something they don't believe, then conversation has lost its usefullness. It just seems like a lot of unnecessary clutter to me.

Not really. I do it for your benefit. To make the discussions work a bit easier for folks like yourself I found it was easier to speak as if this god exists. After all you join the board and say "God this" and "God that" but in reality you should say "YHWH this" or "The xian god" since you haven't shown to me that your god is THE SINGULAR GOD. But I know the game, having been xian, and so I play along for your benefit. Not to condescend or patronize but to simply keep things moving a little more smoothly.

 

When a topic such as this one comes along we speak of it in the same way. Why shouldn't we? The author of the book says that jesus came along and took her to hell for 40 days. Okay. That's the premise. Why shouldn't we discuss that premise at its face value? Reading the text of her book shows, that if it's true, then the whole thing is beyond ridiculous (whatever that might be).

 

However, all that aside, you called me out indirectly. I called jesus stupid. He is. He is in this book. You don't like that so you discount the book...but maybe it's real? You can't discount her revelation for no reason other than you don't like her theology. The Jews dislike your revealed theology and you expect them to embrace it. Others dislike the Mormon revealed theology and they want others to embrace it. And on it goes.

 

If you read my post you'd know why I called jesus stupid. It's the same reason the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus is stupid in the bible. They die. Go to "hell." They're there for a length of time. They want to prevent people they know from joining in their fate. The stories diverge at this point. In this book the man wants to go back to warn his people but in the bible the rich man wants Lazarus to return on his behalf (a more selfless act really). Both are denied. They are told if the people that are alive won't believe the writings of someone else (the prophets/crazy lady) then they wouldn't believe someone who was dead and returned. You don't believe the crazy lady telling of hell but cerainly had she died some known way that made the news, been dead in a morgue (not in some 3rd world country but in a 1st world high quality verifiable first rate morgue) and at her burial, after they had embalmed her so she had no blood and all that, they heard a noise and had to open the coffin and she was alive again and told this exact same story. You WOULD be more inclined to believe it. Theological problems and all.

 

Jesus was stupid because the dead returning to life trumps a lame book every time. It proves the power of the resurrection. It proves the power of progressive revelation. It proves the afterlife. It proves the power of God. Words on a page reveal nothing more than people have the ability to write fiction...and this book is just one more to add to the xian pile that started 2000 years ago. Just like those someone might get something from it...you didn't.

 

mwc

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If God wants to reveal hellfire to us (a place I do not believe exists), all 6 billion of us, or at least 6 million of us, need to have the same dream for 40 nights in a row. That would be a revelation. These private revelations are nonsensical.

Agree. And I consider that to be the answer for any "true" revelation too (like God exists, Jesus exists, Jesus died, was resurrected, went to God, Jesus is God). ;)

 

Speaking of nonsense, have you heard of the Missouri boy recently found in St. Louis after being missing for over four years? It's been all over the national news: Shawn Hornbeck is the boy's name. (As an aside, he's from my home county in Missouri, so I have followed this case over the years.) Well, he has been recovered safe and sound, happily! What's interesting is that both James Van Praagh and Sylvia Browne (well-known psychics) had declared the boy dead! Van Praagh on his show and Browne on "Montel Williams" both revealed to his parents that their son was dead!

Wow. I wonder what kind of excuses they have to come up with now. Maybe something like "I didn't mean literally and physically dead, but mentally or emotionally dead. My revelation was that the boy was emotionally dead because he was afraid..."

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Really? Then how can anyone learn, teach, reach a conclusion, or even just discuss anything amidst the confusion? If people say something based on something they don't believe, then conversation has lost its usefullness. It just seems like a lot of unnecessary clutter to me.
Not many people are confused by it. You know we don't believe, you know we know you do believe, when we speak, we speak in terms of belief, because having been there, can relate more easily than a christian could to our position. Simple really. Some people insist on being confused though.
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