Why aren't there more healings?

[Ro-bear]

You go to Greece, to Romania, you get healings all over the place! Everybody knows where to go if you get sick. And they get healed most of the time. And not only healed, there are friends and things found, future revealed, problems resolved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Wowie Kazowie! How is it that I've never heard of this? Surely this phenomenon has been thoroughly studied by European doctors and written up in journals of medical science. If you can direct me to any support for this (other than anecdotal) I would really appreciate it. I've got blood pressure out the ying-yang, and my American doctors are having a hard time reining it in.

[Totallyatpeace]

Believer, as a Christian...... I am interested in what you have to say.

 

 

TAP

[Fweethawt]

Are you really interested in the answer to this question? If so, I would be happy to address the topic. 

 

Are you really interested in this topic? I would be happy to address this issue if you are serious about it.....

 

Here we go!

 

<<<rubs hands together as a wicked grin forms on his face>>>

 

C'mon, let's hear it!!!

[Jaded]

I'm definitely interested in your interpretation. It was just a few days ago that learned that some say Mark 16:9 was added to more recent translations.

 

Seriously, I would love to hear about any healings (especially verifiable) or any clarifications as to why most can't heal.

[Fweethawt]

Believer, as a Christian...... I am interested in what you have to say.

TAP

 

Believer, as an ExChristian...... I am anxiously awaiting your line of apologetic b.s.

 

Fwee

 

 

 

 

 

Hi, TAP!

[greygirl]

Are you really interested in the answer to this question? If so, I would be happy to address the topic. 

 

Pretty much everyone participating in this thread has expressed an interest in an answer to the question. I doubt anyone is willing to kiss your ass and beg you for it. If you have an answer, let's hear it.

[Fweethawt]

C'mon Believerdog, the longer you wait to tell us what the problem is, the more people are going to suffer and die.

 

You really do need to let us in on your little secret there.

[Guest Believerdog]

I am glad there is interest in this topic. It is a great topic. I am happy to say that the scriptures supply the answer. In short, because Israel rejected the offer of "the kingdom" God ushered in the administration of Grace given to us by Jesus through the Apostle Paul. In the Administration of Grace, the signs and wonders are no longer in effect.

 

I would be happy to give you the scripture trail to support this argument if you are still interested....

 

For starters, take a look at 2 Corinthians 12:8-10. "Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Threfor I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.....

[Totallyatpeace]

I am glad there is interest in this topic. It is a great topic. I am happy to say that the scriptures supply the answer.  In short, because  Israel rejected the offer of "the kingdom" God ushered in the administration of Grace given to us by Jesus through the Apostle Paul.  In the Administration of Grace, the signs and wonders are no longer in effect.

 

I would be happy to give you the scripture trail to support this argument if you are still interested....

 

For starters, take a look at 2 Corinthians 12:8-10. "Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Threfor I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

So you believe that none of the spiritual gifts are still in use?

[Guest Believerdog]

We all have gifts given to us by God. But the power to heal the sick and raise the dead and to do other miraculous signs and wonders are no longer valid in this current administration of Gods Grace.

 

1 Cor 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

[Guest Cherished]

We all have gifts given to us by God. But the power to heal the sick and raise the dead and to do other miraculous signs and wonders are no longer valid in this current administration of Gods Grace.

 

1 Cor 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Love is the answer!

[Casey]

For starters, take a look at 2 Corinthians 12:8-10. "Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Threfor I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.....

 

For some reason this reminds me of a story. In the old days, when a man enlisted in the British Army, this was sometimes called "joining the military monastery". It was so-called because, among other things, an OR (US GI) had to get permission from his Colonel in order to get married. (In some cases this requirement extended to junior Officers as well).

 

The reply to many such a request went along these lines, "No. If you were meant to have a wife, the Army would damn well have issued you with one!" And with this the soldier or Officer had to be content.

 

All jokes aside, put god in the place of the Colonel and it would come down to this: After you, like the legendary Paul, have prayed for healing for this or that, the answer would be:

 

"No. If you were meant to have (a pair of eyes that worked as they should, for example), I'd have issued you with 'em, wouldn't I? I didn't, 'cause I know what's best for you see? I'd only do this for you if I wanted to make a showpiece of you, which obviously I don't. So go away, and don't bother me with trivial requests of this sort again!"

 

Right, what do we have? If by chance some (usually psycho-schomatic) complaint of yours is healed, well "Praise the lord! There y'go Rebecca, Gawd can do anything! Now how's about showing off his handiwork on my next televangelist show?" (My god how the money rolls in, rolls in!) If, as is the general rule, some more serious problem goes unhealed, it's "Gawd knows best!"

 

No wonder you have to "become as a little child to be a christian!" Anyone who would fall for that con would fall for the three-card trick.

 

It's called Heads I win, Tails you lose, if you hadn't noticed.

Casey

[Fweethawt]

For starters, take a look at 2 Corinthians 12:8-10. "Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Threfor I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.....

 

I love it when an apologist attempts to make a case for the validity of their beliefs by accidentally revealing more of the vileness behind their paper God.

 

BD,

 

Picture if you will, you, lying in bed -- suffering with say... a flesh-eating bacteria disease or something. There I stand, next to your bed holding a vial that contains an instant cure for your disease. You lay there, begging and pleading with me to give you the cure, you try to reach for the vial, but I pull it away. I look at you and say, "Let my sympathy comfort you, for it is all that you need."

 

Would I be an angel, or a demon in disguise?

[Cerise]

Love is the answer!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes yes, and a many splendoured thing, and all you need, and in the air, and a red red rose and all that purple prosey lyrics to a boy band song shit.

 

Just a thought, when you say "love is the answer" do you happen to know what the question is? Or are we just tossing out cliches in this thread.

[Loren]

<snip> The videos that I watched where people were waving their candles under their chins was authentic. I won't deny that. But I sure as heck didn't see anyone just holding the flame under their chin. They were just waving the candle from side to side. That's it! No magic at all. <snip>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wasn't the Right Reverend G. Gordon Liddy famous for showing Nixon that routine?

[Eccles1:2]

OK, now we're getting somewhere. To summarise:

 

Orthodox Christian claims healing is possible with the right rituals and large amounts of faith, but in the end it's up to God. He does not attempt to justify this from the Bible, as he does not accept it as the infallible word of God. At the same time he denies the authenticity of non-orthodox Christian denominations, and offers evidence for miraculous happenings within Orthodoxy.

 

BelieverDog wafts in with a knowing smile and claims that in this "current administration" of God's grace, there are no miracles, including miracles of healing. The implication of this is that we are not to accept Jesus' commission to accompany the preaching of the Word with healings and raisings from the dead. BelieverDog, for clarity please would you tell us:

 

1) What church background are you from, and what is your position on the infallibility and inspiration of the Bible?

2) Do you claim that people who are sick should not pray to God for healing?

3) What is your view on the huge mainstream Christian healing ministries in the West, and particularly in the USA?

[Guest Cherished]

Yes yes, and a many splendoured thing, and all you need, and in the air, and a red red rose and all that purple prosey lyrics to a boy band song shit.

 

Just a thought, when you say "love is the answer" do you happen to know what the question is?  Or are we just tossing out cliches in this thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Didn't mean to toss out a cliche. I need to be more careful about what I say. Don't you think the world would be a better place if people if people were more loving towards one another?

[Reach]

Didn't mean to toss out a cliche.   I need to be more careful about what I say.

Cherished, I forgot to welcome you in another thread you started.

 

Being a Christian here on an ex-Christian site, naturally, your words are more heavily scrutinized than those of non-Christians. It may be hypocritical on our part but it is to be expected. If you hang around with us for awhile, you should be able to overlook it, for the most part and most of the time, and get used to it. A willingness to write with care and edit your posts will serve you well. He who is teachable is wise.

 

Please consider this a friendly, albeit belated, welcome.

 

Reach

[Guest Cherished]

Cherished, I forgot to welcome you in another thread you started.

 

Being a Christian here on an ex-Christian site, naturally, your words are more heavily scrutinized than those of non-Christians. It may be hypocritical on our part but it is to be expected. If you hang around with us for awhile, you should be able to overlook it, for the most part and most of the time, and get used to it. A willingness to write with care and edit your posts will serve you well. He who is teachable is wise. 

 

Please consider this a friendly, albeit belated, welcome. 

 

Reach

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Reach,

 

Thanks! I just noticed that I made I mistake and typed "if people" twice. I was on the phone and typing at the same time. Thanks for not banging me over the head with it.

[Reach]

Hey Reach,

 

Thanks!  I just noticed that I made I mistake and typed "if people" twice.  I was on the phone and typing at the same time.  Thanks for not banging me over the head with it.

No problem. And talking to you, I think I should have said, She who is teachable is wise.

[Cerise]

Didn't mean to toss out a cliche.   I need to be more careful about what I say.  Don't you think the world would be a better place if people if people were more loving towards one another?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think it would be better if we defined what exactly "loving" entails. Love is such an abstract idea, that I don't think it works on its own as any kind of guide. There are plenty of people who run around attaching "love" to everything. Those people with "I love New York" bumperstickers...what does that even mean? How do they love New York? What exactly are they doing that deserves the moniker of "love" attached to it, beside living there usually?

 

It's the same way with "love humanity". Too abstract. What do people actually mean when they say they love humanity? That they are part of it? That's what it seems like most of the time.

 

I've gotten to the point where I'm really tired of people telling me they love me. Especially when it's Christians strangers across the internet. Love is just a word if it isn't accompanied by action.

 

"If people were more loving towards each other..." what would that mean? What would they be doing to each other that they are currently not doing? That's what I'm concerned about. Not "love" the answer to everything.

[zfunkman]

Didn't mean to toss out a cliche.   I need to be more careful about what I say.  Don't you think the world would be a better place if people if people were more loving towards one another?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why do xtians think they have cornered the market on "love"? Love is Universal. I am sick and tired of xtians thinking that love comes from biblegod. Biblegod has got to be the most un-loving being I have ever read about. Love exists all over the world in all cultures throughout human history and has absolutely nothing to do with the bible or biblegod. And to answer your question.. Duh, of coarse the world would be a better place if people were more loving toward each other. Maybe a good first step would be for people to wake up quit getting all their "morals" from religious doctrine and accept the fact that morals, including love, are a givin to all humanity and not just "xtians". In fact there is more hate and judgement on people from xtians than there is from non-xtians. For any xtians who truly think that love comes from biblegod, you can seriously go F*CK yourself.

[Kryten]

Where to start?...

 

In response to all of OrthoChrist's posts:

Part I

OC, you still haven't answered. You, as a FAITHFUL, 100% believing, upright and correct-thinking Christian of the only True Church TM, are COMMANDED to heal the sick and perform miracles. Dan's mom needs healing. What does her faith, or Dan's faith, or Michaal Jackson's faith have to do with it??? Why do you need her name? You are showing weakness and a LACK OF FAITH by adding so many conditions and putting limitations on God! You may need to pray, seek, and repent. Dan's mom needs healing. Here is your chance! Do it and STFU! Earn some credibility. Get your friends to join you. When two are in agreement it will be done, and a three strand cord is not easily broken. Are there two more like you? WE ARE WAITING!

 

Part II

You state that FAITH is the most important element in receiving healing. I've said this more than once, in many ways, and I'll continue to beat on it until it's hamburger-- [mmmm, hamburger...] FAITH is believing things to be true without evidence. You say have enough faith! That is CORRECT!! If you believe HARD ENOUGH, and have enough faith, and believe some more, and tell yourself over and over that something is true, then, by a miracle of God, you will THINK it's true!! Glory!! If you start to doubt, just do it some more.

I somehow don't think you grasp what I just said, but if you could see it from a free perspective you would see how stupidly obvious that is. Of course you believe because you just convinced yourself to believe. Doh!

[orthodox christian]

Um, first of all, I'm not a "he"

 

Kryten, somehow I associate you with your avatar... I think that's intended tho, for "xtians"

 

OC, you still haven't answered. You, as a FAITHFUL, 100% believing, upright and correct-thinking Christian of the only True Church TM, are COMMANDED to heal the sick and perform miracles.

 

You see, there are different levels in which you believe. I think any Christian, even Western, will tell you that. Sometimes you believe more, sometimes less, and the former makes you sing the psalms all day long, and the other can barely make you read the dayly passage of the Bible. I will not tell you why this is, not because I don't know, but because you will not be able to accept the explanation. However, that is not enough for miracles. When you believe more, you do more for God, and He gives you more faith, and you do even more, and you receive even more faith. It always takes effort to get to the next level. In the highest levels you devote yourslef completely to serve the people (after God), and you sacrifice your well-being for theirs. And God compensates everything you lose that way. He compensates with extra stuff like miracles. And then you can heal EVERY person that comes to you, and that will NOT DEPEND on the faith of the HEALED. He could be an atheist of a Hindu and still be healed by that super-believing man or woman. I would love to give you and others the medical report of my friend Edward who was healed of brain damage, I'll try to get it like in the next week or so.

 

 

Why do you need her name?

 

I need the name to tell my friends: pray for Sara or Lisa, she is sick. Without it I can just pray by myself: God help the mother of Dan. But what is my prayer worth? Like one Orthodox teacher said: obey God, and God will obey you (meaning, give you what you ask). And I am not very obedient. That is why I asked the name. But he disappeared...

 

 

You state that FAITH is the most important element in receiving healing. I've said this more than once, in many ways, and I'll continue to beat on it until it's hamburger-- [mmmm, hamburger...] FAITH is believing things to be true without evidence. You say have enough faith! That is CORRECT!! If you believe HARD ENOUGH, and have enough faith, and believe some more, and tell yourself over and over that something is true, then, by a miracle of God, you will THINK it's true!! Glory!! If you start to doubt, just do it some more.

 

I can't believe this comes from the mouth of an Ex-Christian. Did you believe in this way? I'm not. Maybe you'll say I just don't see it now? I know where my faith comes from, but I will not tell you, you'll not like the answer. And this is hard to call faith, actually. It's rather a knowledge about God, spiritual knowledge that is not born in the mind. But you will also not like the explanation of that. And faith is not the most important in receiving healing, but in performing. If healing happens by a Christian, then the faith only the healer is needed. But when a person asks for healing directly from God, then there should be faith to ask Him in the first place. And if the faith is little, then the healing depends on God.

 

 

 

 

About the experiment. If anybody wants to try it, do it exactly as described, and then it will be guaranteed. Do it just for fun. You don't have to have faith or anything. If you do it right, meaning, if you follow the directions, then it'll work. Try it, please. And then tell me and everyone what happened.

 

 

About the Holy Fire. If you get something big burning and wave it under your chin, for how long will you be able to stand it? Will your skin become black? And it's different than when you pour gas on your hand and egnite it. The hottest plase in a fire is above the blue part. But if you look at it closely, it doesn't have any color directly above the burning surface, the fire does not touch it. That's why it doesn't burn you. I will try to find the video where a man with a full beard puts fire on it. Although all the videos are made at a very exciting time and so the picture is shaky, you can see some pretty incredible stuff. Another friend from my church said he has a nice video of fire washing of a full beard which did not burn. He needs to put it on a dvd so that I could put that part here. The whole video is 2 hrs long.

One fire ball was filmed and it is at the very bottom of the page of the videos. On the website where the original is located, there is a link to a lagrer picture. There is no way one could run there through the crowd with a burning candle which was "taken for" the fire ball. The fire ball rolls over people's heads. Check it out.

Another thing about lightnings. In that 2 hr video I saw the actual lightning trunk (or how do you call it) flashing from the foor to the ceiling. Some of the flashes are from cameras, tho. The length of the lightning flashes is pretty short, I'm sure you can imitate it. But can you imirate lightnings without hurting anybody?

[nightflight]

Um, first of all, I'm not a "he"

 

Hey baby. I'm nightflight.

 

I wouldn't have been so harsh with you if I'd known you were a chick.