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Goodbye Jesus

Why aren't there more healings?


Eccles1:2

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Oh, sorry Ortho. My fault for assuming you were a he. Please accept my apologies.

:blink:

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Hey baby.  I'm nightflight. 

 

I wouldn't have been so harsh with you if I'd known you were a chick.

I can see appoligizing for getting the he/she thing. But why should we treat xtian women any different than xtian men? They're just as whacked in the head as the men for believing in the bible in the first place. In fact, they're a little more whacked as the bible treats women terribly in the bible. Have some balls dude. Xtian women desreve the same "harsh" treatment that the xtian men get.

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Um, first of all, I'm not a "he" :)

Then I apologize for thinking you were a "he". However, I've read my post a couple more times and am still missing the part where I referred to you in any gender-specific way. But I DID think it. I will be more respectful and less harsh in the future. I'm going to go out on a limb here and, with the help of my deductive reasoning skills, guess you are a female. It is wrong to treat a lady with the same FORCE as a man. (pun intended)

 

Kryten, somehow I associate you with your avatar... I think that's intended tho, for "xtians"  :HaHa:

That's exactly why I chose that avatar. I first picked the name Kryten after the Red Dwarf mechanoid, since I more closely associate with his character. But as an EX, I feel more like the Emperor, complete with the power (=knowledge) and dual identity. My Christian friends have no idea who I really am! (They would not understand, just I like would not have.) Here I know all about the Christian mindset and agruments. I have used them all before. It would be difficult to tell me anything I didn't already know or personally experience as a spirit-filled Christian. But I have learned so much, and I see things from a different perspective than I did before. It's like being a fish for most of my life, in my own big fishbowl (Christianity), but now I'm on the outside. I can see everything that goes on in the fishbowl. I can see clearly now. I am free. I can breathe. It all makes so much more sense now. By now you must know that I can never be turned back... (Oops- slipping into emperor mode. There are other cool lines I could apply, like from the upcoming Episode III - Emperor: "There is evidence about Jesus that some consider him to be... unhistorical." Apprentice: "Can I learn of this evidence?" Emperor: "Not from a Christian." )

But yes, to Christians, I AM dangerous. So the avatar really does represent me-- (although hope I'm more handsome and younger than old Cos). But I have no desire to make my friends uncomfortable or rock their worlds. Maybe someday one of them will say something stupid and I'll have to strike them down. Maybe I won't. Don't care. They can believe what they want. As long as they don't get any on me.

 

I need the name to tell my friends: pray for Sara or Lisa, she is sick.

I'll accept that.

 

I can't believe this comes from the mouth of an Ex-Christian. Did you believe in this way? I'm not. Maybe you'll say I just don't see it now? I know where my faith comes from, but I will not tell you, you'll not like the answer. And this is hard to call faith, actually. It's rather a knowledge about God, spiritual knowledge that is not born in the mind. But you will also not like the explanation of that.

No, I believed it because the bible said it. My attack is on the concept of "having more faith". It is circular. I've seen Xians start to have doubts, and the pastor has them study the bible more, and read more apologetic literature. That is the same as re-enforcing the old beliefs, reaffirming whatever it was you had doubts about. Praying and seeking is all part of it. It is a process of convincing yourself that it was true. That's how I see it now. To really strengthen your position, you should do it by studying and learning, but the Christian way is to only study Christian material and reject all else. Of course that should lead to a stronger belief in Christian ideas.

 

(Edit: to fix typo)

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OK, OK......

 

Her name is Pat. Patricia, actually. I just visited with her today, she's doing OK.

There's some new procedure she's getting (currently treatment 3 of 6) that seems to be improving her right eye. Left is too far gone.

 

Be warned, if you want to prove a healing from god, it will have to be TOTALLY unexplainable by medicine or scientific reason.

 

In your favor, she has become more of a believer in recent years (beginning before her loss of sight) than I've ever known her to be. I mean, I think she always accepted God/Jesus/Bible but now she attends church regularly, reads the buybull, etc.

 

Jesus said his followers would do "greater works" than him. Here's one for you to top.

 

Mark 5:35-42, NIV

35While Jesus was still speaking, some men came from the house of Jairus, the synagogue ruler. “Your daughter is dead,” they said. “Why bother the teacher any more?”

 

36Ignoring what they said, Jesus told the synagogue ruler, “Don't be afraid; just believe.”

 

37He did not let anyone follow him except Peter, James and John the brother of James. 38When they came to the home of the synagogue ruler, Jesus saw a commotion, with people crying and wailing loudly. 39He went in and said to them, “Why all this commotion and wailing? The child is not dead but asleep.” 40But they laughed at him.

 

After he put them all out, he took the child's father and mother and the disciples who were with him, and went in where the child was. 41He took her by the hand and said to her, "Talitha koum!" (which means, "Little girl, I say to you, get up!" ). 42Immediately the girl stood up and walked around (she was twelve years old). At this they were completely astonished.

 

 

He didn't know the daughters name :Hmm:

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I can see appoligizing for getting the he/she thing. But why should we treat xtian women any different than xtian men? They're just as whacked in the head as the men for believing in the bible in the first place. In fact, they're a little more whacked as the bible treats women terribly in the bible. Have some balls dude. Xtian women desreve the same "harsh" treatment that the xtian men get.

 

You totally misunderstood.

 

"Dude".

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ok....I watched the "washing in fire"...... :lmao:

 

 

What a JOKE!!!

 

Nobody left any bodypart in the fire...they passed their hand thru it ....just like you can any other fire.....

 

 

NO ONE on those vids left their hand or anything in the fire for more than a fraction of a second....not for a whole minute...not for 30 seconds....not even for 5 seconds!!!

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ok....I watched the  "washing in fire"...... :lmao:

What a JOKE!!!

 

Nobody left any bodypart in the fire...they passed their hand thru it ....just like you can any other fire.....

NO ONE on those vids left their hand or anything in the fire for more than a fraction of a second....not for a whole minute...not for 30 seconds....not even for 5 seconds!!!

 

 

Yep, exactly the same way firewalkers do it. They just don't stay in contact long enough to get burned. I've never understood why anyone thinks that's a miracle. I never really did well in any science class, but even I can grasp a concept that simple.

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Hey OC -

 

I did your spell every night since you made your challenge. And had the same nightmare again last night.

 

Go ahead, tell me all about how it's my fault it didn't work, because I didn't have enough faith.

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Although I do not term myself as a fundamentalist, if I were to offer an expanation as to why the question posed is not applicable to Christians today, then I might give an answer approximating something akin to John MacArthur's in his book, 'Charismatic Chaos.'

 

Below, I am posting a link to an excerpted 9th chapter from his book published back in 1991, dealing with this very topic. It sets up another framework by which some mainline Christians say that Charismatic christians are peforming a type of spiritual 'malpractice.'

 

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/CHAOS9.HTM

 

 

All and every opinion is welcome to be discussed.

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"That fire does not burn your skin or hair for about 15 minutes after its coming down"

 

 

:lmao:

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But why should we treat xtian women any different than xtian men? They're just as whacked in the head as the men for believing in the bible in the first place. In fact, they're a little more whacked as the bible treats women terribly in the bible.

That's something that has puzzled me for the longest time. Even as I was still a (female) follower of Christ and trying to hold on to some shreds of my faith, I constantly ran headlong into this unveiled and blatant misogynistic attitude of God. Undermining the "love of God" teachings, the theme continues throughout the New Testament. Just when one thinks that Christ might be teaching all of us to choose the higher road in regards to selflessly and sacrificially loving our neighbors (and family inferred), and embracing each other as equals, with no gender biases, Paul emerges to put the woman back in "her place," effectively trumping Jesus' instructions with the card he held up his sleeve.

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Just too make clear:

 

MY REPLY TO THE ORTHODOX CHICK WAS A JOKE!!

 

Whoooosh!

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Just too make clear:

 

MY REPLY TO THE ORTHODOX CHICK WAS A JOKE!!

No problem with the joke, Nightflight, but it served as a reminder that for various reasons, Christian women are treated with more kindness, gentleness, patience, etc... on this board than Christian men. Now, I submit that there are several reasons why that is the case but whether anyone likes what some might charge is an apparent double standard or not, the facts remain the same.

 

Your joke simply highlights our humanity in all of its splendidly perfect imperfection. :grin:

 

I hold the opinion that there is no shame in being a male and having a soft spot for females. Vice versa is good, too. ;-)

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No problem with the joke, Nightflight, but it served as a reminder that for various reasons, Christian women are treated with more kindness, gentleness, patience, etc...  on this board than Christian men.

 

I find that interesting and would say it comes down to respect. Just because we (you and I) don't agree on Christianity, there are many other things I learn about life by being a part of this community.

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I find that interesting and would say it comes down to respect.

Certainly respect is one of the reasons but, on a deeper level, I was implying that the difference in how women are treated (on this forum) is predominantly a social and cultural issue.

 

In case I made myself unclear, I was primarily referring to how non-Christian men here treat Christian women here.

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Guest acorn

In the Gospels, Jesus gave authority at the time for these disiples of his to heal, raise the dead, etc.. Jesus also showed them the mystery of the kingdom of god, and told them to go and preach to all the world, and make disciples, but to answer the question, Jesus gave sole power to them in that precept, so that people would believe, ....aint that funny on another note when Jesus said there would be nomore great signs, ....He was our last wonderful sign, ....the next will be His coming according to scripture and it will be to late then, which comes to this scripture, .. ..watch and pray. ...Iknow you not>>>

 

Scripture reference:

Matt 10:1

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

(KJV)

 

Mark 16:17-19

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.(KJV)

 

 

Mark 8:12

12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.

(KJV)

 

Mark 13:35-37

35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

(KJV)

 

 

Mark 4:11And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

(KJV)

11

 

 

Luke 13:27-28

27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

(KJV)

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Hey, ex's, arn't you glad I'm not doing what that guy is doing? Acorn, this is not a christian forum! People want your own reasoning here.

 

 

 

To everybody: You know, guys, I actually hid my gender on purpose so that you would reveal to me all your agrumentations and reasons. I did not make a big discussion here because first, I have little time, and second, I doubt it will get anywhere. But I am going to write a book and put there all my explanations and arguments.

 

About the fire: yeah, there are some videos of scared people who are still afraid to put their hands into the fire. But there is one video where a guy waves the fire under his chin. Maybe when I get a better video, I should come back with it.

But let us assume that this is a hoax and nothing extraordinary does not happen in the Temple of the Tomb of the Lord. Would people still go there? There are millions of Orthodox people and believers of other faiths and denominations who go there just to see the Fire. And if you have a pretty good video camera, you can get inside and witness the miracle. The website somehow only has unprofessional videos (I guess you need to pay for the professional ones). If this was a hoax, they will not let anyone in, but just the Patriarch and the clergy close to him. It is uncareful to declair this to be a hoax because you did not consider the consequences of it. Pilgrimage to Jerusalem around Pascha (Orthodox Easter) which, by the way, is comming up on May 1 this year, is almost a must for every Orhtodox Christian. It is definately a dream. And imagine if you plan the trip whole your life, go there and see that it's nothing more than a Las Vegas adventure, what will happen with your faith? Every year people come back to it. And if you don't see the evidence in the videos provided, it's too soon to condemn it. Think about all the millions of people whose faith is dramaticaly strenthened because they witness the miracle. This does not happen in vacuum but openly, anyone (with a video camera) can see for him- herself. That is why I say you don't care whether it is true or not. If you did you would not make a quick conclusion (because you are biased towards your disbelief and that harms the logical reasoning, you need to be objective). And I in the mean time would try to figure out how to get a real good viedo recording of the event.

 

 

 

Greygirl, did I say this depends on your faith? That is why I set up this experiment because it does not require any faith. Use your brain. It would be stupid on my side to offer an experiment that requires faith.

But to the subject. Tell me what you did exacltly.

 

 

 

Kryten:

 

Then I apologize for thinking you were a "he"

 

That sentence was for everybody, not just you.

 

 

That's exactly why I chose that avatar. I first picked the name Kryten after the Red Dwarf mechanoid

 

Could you enlighten me on this subject? Sounds like from a sci-fi movie or something.

 

 

It would be difficult to tell me anything I didn't already know or personally experience as a spirit-filled Christian. But I have learned so much, and I see things from a different perspective than I did before.

 

Did you have a feeling of being “home” in your (ex-)church? Did you feel deep inside that this is where you should be?

 

 

I can see clearly now. I am free. I can breathe. It all makes so much more sense now. By now you must know that I can never be turned back...

 

You see clearly and yet you have “dual identity”? This is not a reproach. I understand what you’re saying. If I were you, I would get the same kind of relief. Those ex-testimonies teach me a lot about American Christianity and makes me hate it even more. I can’t understand how some people buy it. Of course, you’ll say I’m in the same fishball and I can’t see. You can guess what my answer is: we’ll see who’s in a fishball after we die. But my faith is not based on the mere practical carefulness “what if.” Nor it is based on the Bible. I don’t think you have any idea why I am a Christian, because you were not Orthodox. If you were, then my apologies. You met God and rejected Him.

 

But I am glad for you and others. At least you are not in that chaos.

 

 

It is circular. I've seen Xians start to have doubts, and the pastor has them study the bible more, and read more apologetic literature.

 

None of that is in Orthodoxy. In Orthodoxy you go to Jerusalem J

 

 

 

 

 

Her name is Pat. Patricia, actually. I just visited with her today, she's doing OK.

There's some new procedure she's getting (currently treatment 3 of 6) that seems to be improving her right eye. Left is too far gone.

 

Be warned, if you want to prove a healing from god, it will have to be TOTALLY unexplainable by medicine or scientific reason.

 

Yeah, yeah, she’ll get better and you’ll say it’s the treatment. Dan, as I said, pray also. Say: “God, if you exist, and if Orthodoxy is the true Church, heal my mom and I will worship you.” Just utter the words, nothing weird required. And now I will ask my friends to pray for her.

 

He didn't know the daughters name

 

It’s different. Here you have me asking people to pray for a person. It’s much more convenient to ask to pray for “Patricia” than for “Dan’s mother,” isn’t it?

 

 

I've gotta run.

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But let us assume that this is a hoax and nothing extraordinary does not happen in the Temple of the Tomb of the Lord. Would people still go there?

 

Hell, yes. There's a tree just a few blocks from my apartment which contains what some people claim is an image of the Virgin Mary. I've seen it. It's a smudge of tree sap. It doesn't look like anything *but* a random smudge of tree sap. And yet, people have set up a shrine in front of the tree, and people make pilgrimages to see it. That one tree has had thousands upon thousands of visitors. People believe because they want to, not because the evidence is convincing.

 

 

Greygirl, did I say this depends on your faith? That is why I set up this experiment because it does not require any faith. Use your brain. It would be stupid on my side to offer an experiment that requires faith.

 

Well, let's see...

 

Healings do not happen because they depend on the amount of faith one has.
Honestly, miracles are up to God, and if He wishes, He will not perform them. And most of them depend on the faith of the sick person him or herself.
You can heal if you have enough faith.

 

All quotes from you.

 

You did specify that the nightmare "healing" doesn't require faith, while at the same time insisting over and over again that healing requires faith. You did, however, specify that I have to "do it right" in order to be healed. Same thing.

 

 

But to the subject. Tell me what you did exacltly.

 

I did exactly what you said:

 

All you do is make the sign of the cross over your bed and pillow before you lie down to sleep. Here is how you make the sign of the cross: press the tips of three fingers -- the thumb, the pointer and the middle fingers -- together, and lay the other two on the palm. This should be the right hand. Draw the sign of the cross in the air with your hand folded like that over your bed and pillow. Draw the vertical bar first, and then the horisontal from left to right. You can cross yourself too, this way your three fingers put together should touch your forehead, your bellybotton, your right shoulder, and your left shoulder. You can do it three times just to make sure smile.gif

 

You said it would work. It didn't. I await your explanation.

 

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Hi OC,

I must give you credit for sticking around here :woohoo:

 

 

Dan, as I said, pray also. Say: “God, if you exist, and if Orthodoxy is the true Church, heal my mom and I will worship you.” Just utter the words, nothing weird required.

 

I will do as you ask. I didn't go back through the thread, but I don't recall you asking me to pray. And if you did, where is this backed up by your scripture?

 

And now I will ask my friends to pray for her.

As far as I know, one believer is all it takes.

 

It’s different. Here you have me asking people to pray for a person. It’s much more convenient to ask to pray for “Patricia” than for “Dan’s mother,” isn’t it?

 

No, am asking you to prove Mark 16:17-18:

"these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

 

If it is not convenient for you to "place your hands" on my mom, surely there must be one of "those who believe" close enough to come to her.

 

This world is full of "believers" but I've not seen any who can carry out the instructions in the new testament.

 

If and when I see concrete evidence of the "truth" of the bible, I'll consider that it may be more than the myths of ancient superstitious people.

 

Dan

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Even if the fire miracle isn't a sham (indeed, I would argue from a psychological point of view, it would be necessary to believe in order for it to be accomplished), how would explain similar rites in non-christian religions. Are their "miracles" only shams?

 

thaipusam.jpg

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Graygirl, I cannot give you any explanation because I am not there with you. As I said, you might need the holy oil (which is probably hard for you). The sign of the cross worked on me, but it wasn't enough. I got the oil and I have a peaceful sleep every night, thank God. I am not sure what is happening to you, though. I admit it's a tough one. What does your bedroom look like? Sometimes if you have different uhchristian things in there, they tend to "interfere" and so things like the sign of the cross don't work. Some people have troubles at home and as soon as they take out everything unchristian (even pictures of rock stars which use satanic symbols in their performances) everything calms down.

 

The reason I was saying at one time that faith matters for healing and at another that it doesn't is because I ment two different cases. For the first cases faith is needed for Orthodox Christians to be healed. This is important to distinguish: in Orthodoxy we have few people who perform healings on other people, because that depends on the amount of faith one has, and not everybody has strong faith. But wether you are healed does not depend so much on your faith, but only when you are an Orthodox Christian. If you're not, how are you gonna get healed? In most cases like that faith doesn't matter (I might add, however, that sometimes future faith matters, meaning, if after a miracle the person will definately turn to God, He does the miracle, if not, then He doesn't). Even some atheists experience miracles and convert. There are many conversion stories, but I think it is irrelevant to tell them here, you wouldn't believe them anyway.

 

 

Dan: glad you're back (forgot to tell you that the last time)

 

I must give you credit for sticking around here

 

Thanks. Why?

 

 

I will do as you ask. I didn't go back through the thread, but I don't recall you asking me to pray. And if you did, where is this backed up by your scripture?

 

It is backed up by experience. One lady converted in that way. She was sick and she said words like that to God and He healed her. But she believed in Christ before that and was intensively seeking the truth. Now I am starting to realize that some people convert becasue they have a desire to find the purpose of life. I don't know.

But tell you something, Dan, my prayers are worth nothing. I am not a very good Christian, and I do not have faith the size of a bread crumb. If I did, I would convert many of the people here. My mom hasn't died while she was supposed to, we didn't ask that from God. He preserved her by His own will, so that she could convert and become an Orthodox Christian. But your mom's and that lady's cases are different. My friend was healed of something that she could not heal going to doctors. Your mother is sick with something curable, as I see, but I am not familiar with the kind of the sickness she has.

Where do you live?

 

 

 

 

Skankboy, could you explain what is happening on the photo?

 

 

 

 

To everybody. If you still have a wish to examine the Holy Fire miracle, I found a video that is not on that website. It's on a Russian website, and I think the video is also in Russian but I am not sure, my soundcard failed, so I can't hear it. However, you don't need the comments, the picture tells for itself. Toward the very end there is a group of people washing their beards in the fire. So, here is the website with the video (bad quality):

 

http://www.pravoslavie.udm.ru/sretenie1.htm#n4

 

(Under chapter 4) You'll see something like a poem and right under it there is a link to download the video. To the right there is a photo of the event.

 

 

There is also a describtion of the event by an atheist who watched a documentary on it and saw the whole thing. He is talking about some pretty amazing stuff, but it's in Russian. I am going to Russia this summer and try to get that documentary he reviews. He was talking about some healings happening right infront of the camera, like the skin touched by a sickness was smoothing out all by itself after it was washed by the fire. Some amazing "special effects" like lightnings going back and forth, light flying around the Church, inside it, in the sky, between the people. I definately need to go one day.

 

 

I also wanted to mention a prophesy that soon (in a few years) there is going to be a war in Turkey and it will fall. The territory will become an Orthodox country (or it will be joined with one of the Orthodox countries). It will be a difficult time.

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Graygirl, I cannot give you any explanation because I am not there with you. As I said, you might need the holy oil (which is probably hard for you). The sign of the cross worked on me, but it wasn't enough. I got the oil and I have a peaceful sleep every night, thank God. I am not sure what is happening to you, though. I admit it's a tough one. What does your bedroom look like? Sometimes if you have different uhchristian things in there, they tend to "interfere" and so things like the sign of the cross don't work. Some people have troubles at home and as soon as they take out everything unchristian (even pictures of rock stars which use satanic symbols in their performances) everything calms down.

 

So if there are all these conditions (needing to remove non-Christian things from my bedroom, trouble at home), why didn't you mention them at the beginning of the thread when you guaranteed it would work? Is your god really so weak that his miracles can be totally blocked by a deck of tarot cards or a picture of Eliza Dushku? If so, that's a pretty pathetic god you've got there. Not very god-like at all.

 

I also wanted to mention a prophesy that soon (in a few years) there is going to be a war in Turkey and it will fall. The territory will become an Orthodox country (or it will be joined with one of the Orthodox countries). It will be a difficult time.

 

War in a middle eastern country? The fall of a government? Installation of a religious regime? Way to go out on a limb there, hon.

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Sometimes if you have different uhchristian things in there, they tend to "interfere" and so things like the sign of the cross don't work.

 

Honey, do you know how crazy this sounds?

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Honey, do you know how crazy this sounds?

 

Oh that's nothing, NF.

 

If you want to see 'crazy' you should go to that

Russian website that was posted up there.

 

There are thousands of words there. Thousands

of words that you won't be able to understand.

However, there are a few pictures. And we all

know that a picture speaks a thousand words. :Hmm:

 

Look! He/she has his/her face buried in the Holy Fire!!!

k1.jpg

Darwin slam.

k3.jpg

Close to understanding evolutionary physical changes, but not quite. (see below)

k4.jpg

Women from camels.

k5.jpg

This men from sheep pic hits a little close to home as far as

they are concerned, huh?

k6.jpg

Then there is this. The wolf in sheep's clothing. It's pretty cute.

I think. Somebody around here will probably use it as an avatar

eventually. :lmao:

k23.jpg

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That's exactly why I chose that avatar. I first picked the name Kryten after the Red Dwarf mechanoid

 

Could you enlighten me on this subject? Sounds like from a  sci-fi movie or something.

Red Dwarf is a British Sci-Fi comedy, set millions of years in the future waaay out in space. Kryten is a mechanoid (robot) servant who (with help) has "broken" his programming and now has free will. It's very funny.

 

It would be difficult to tell me anything I didn't already know or personally experience as a spirit-filled Christian. But I have learned so much, and I see things from a different perspective than I did before.

 

Did you have a feeling of being “home” in your (ex-)church? Did you feel deep inside that this is where you should be?

Of course that is one of the big draws of any religion, cult, or church. The family atmosphere and sense of belonging. You have close friends with much in common, have social events, do things together, hug each other, etc. Yes, we did all that. I had no problem with that part of it. But once you discover it is based on something false, you aren't one of them and don't belong. I don't miss it. There is too much pressure to conform and submit, although I was pretty immune to that part. I am much happier NOT being part of a church or group.

 

I can see clearly now. I am free. I can breathe. It all makes so much more sense now. By now you must know that I can never be turned...

 

You see clearly and yet you have “dual identity”?

Yes, in the respect that my Chistian friends do not know I am not one of them any more. Xians have a cow when one of their own rejects their beliefs. They like to think that once you "know Jesus" you cannot "unknow" him-- that once you believe you cannot stop believing. It calls into question their intelligence, but they rationalize it by saying the ex must have sin, or be evil, or be running from God, or must have been hurt by the church, when in fact it's more likely they have learned the truth and cannot continue to pretend it's all true. So, back to the point, I am an EX, but I see no need to announce it to all of my friends (and certain family members) who would not be happy about it.

 

. . .  You met God and rejected Him.

Don't jump to conclusions or judge. I would never reject God. I don't know if He/She exists or not, but I know for certain that the diety described in the Old Testament is illogical, petty, quick to anger, unforgiving, racist, and inconsistant.

The God described in the New Testament is a little better, but that one has zero communication skills, and still is illogical, confusing/contradictory, and His answer to everything is eternal torture. It's all right there in that book. If God exists, I don't think He/She is guilty of all that crap. It's a stretch to say I "met God".

If you accept on faith that He is with you, then you believe it. If you believe it, then it is true to you. Did I reject Santa? No, I just don't believe he exists. Big difference. Have you rejected Santa?

 

But I am glad for you and others. At least you are not in that chaos.

Thank you.

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