My Turn :)

[Darkenmoon]

What denomination of the Christian Faith were you part of?

 

I grew up in a non-denominational church. When I became "saved" it was a baptist church (Baptist General Conference)

 

And what did they teach you was the requirement of becoming a Christian?

 

By word, they believed that if you repent and trust in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour you were saved. By action and unspoken word, it was a lot more of an actions thing. It was more if you are truly saved then you will do this long list of things and not do this even longer list of things. Sure... it's basically a man made list and when you ask me to show through scripture that it's valid I can't... but still... if you are a good Christian then you'll be happy to do it for Jesus. It was things like giving lots of money to build on to the church even though the current church wasn't fully used most of the time because they wanted more space and a proper sanctuary. It was things like good Christian men go to Promise Keepers. Good Christian women are involved on a hospitality team... clean up the church... work in the nursery... quilt, etc. Basically they do the crap work and submit to all men (even though they won't say this and will instead vocally say that it is technically their own husband.) There seemed to be a lot of WORKING for salvation to prove you were saved and to keep it. And then when someone left... just explain it away as they weren't really saved in the first place. IF you believe the Bible that nothing can pluck you out of god's hand... and you believe you have to work to prove your salvation/keep your salvation/whatever... then I guess it is the only explanation you can accept. But if the Bible is right that no one can pluck you out of God's hand... you can't even take yourself out of his hand. *shrug*

 

I guess my next questions would be--- what was the main or central reason you walked away?

 

Too much hypocrisy. Too many cliques. Too much sexism. Too much culture that didn't fit who I was and am. Too much just do it... believe it... don't think about it... not in any real way... thinking will lead to the dark side! I guess I'm too much of a freethinker to actually buy into it. It didn't fill any needs that I had even though I tried so hard to make it work. So... time to move on and be true to me.

[pandora]

To tell you the truth, I don't even remember Pandora. It was so so so long ago. Very long ago. Before 3rd grade (I'm 34 now) and all I can really remember is some lessons in the Serb language and that this Jesus guy died for me and that communists were bad people cause they didnt like Jesus. I remember kissing Father Dragan's hand on the way out and playing around the confessional. And the incense. Hmm such a great smell.

 

However, many orthodox are much more grounded in their pagan roots and are not as literalist as their Protestant breathren. Although, feast days are supposed to be observed for respective Saints etc, and that only certian books may and can be read. St. Sava (a brother to King Nemanja) was the first Archbishop of the serbian church around the 13th century. The great schism happens, and what do you know, we get our version of the pope along with "our" brothers, the Greeks. Serbs also follow the Gregorian Calendar (like the Greeks) and both likewise priests have funny beards and clothes. Also, the miracles are preformed behind the screen (whatever it is called) and the magic happens. And the everything is sung during service. I remember the singing too. The early service at St. Sava (which has a killer Fish Fry on Friday's btw) is sung totally in Serbian. Verse, Chorus. Pretty neat. Imagine a bunch of atheist singing about philosophy? lol.

 

Yet, that's all I remember. I still hang out at Serb places (Milwaukee as the second largest concentration of Serbians outside of Serbia and Montenegro, Chicago with the most in the USA) in Milwaukee and have looked into its history and such.

 

I'd probably be more into the culture, but the damn church pervades everything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry TAP-- off topic

My husband and I are considering move to Milawuakee (among other cities). PM me what you think of it-- good and bad, size, etc...

[LloydDobler]

What denomination of the Christian Faith were you part of?

The church I grew up in was called Calvary Mennonite Church but it was hardly mennonite. It may have had its foundations in the Mennonite denomination but it was non denominational for all intensive purposes. All my christian friends in junior high/high school all went to pentacostal churches (open bible, AOG) and so I went to youth group with a lot of those guys. After high school I went to Milwaukie Covenant church which you live near, and it too was based in some denomination but was not a strict follower of it. After that situation pissed me off, I stopped going pretty much. I started going again when I got married, my ex and I went to the local friends church (quaker) and then a spin off church of that one, that was a non denominational community church. I (we) went to non denominational churches for the rest of our marriage, but I completely stopped going in 2003.

And what did they teach you was the requirement of becoming a Christian?

Tap

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is lord" is all I ever believed.

 

I believed all other acts and fruits would flow from that belief out of obedience.

...what was the main or central reason you walked away?

Complete lack of congruity between what the bible says and what really happens in life. I dismissed the mormon church because of its ridiculous stories of miracles, and for one second I looked at my religion through those glasses and saw that I believed in a bunch of ridiculous miracle stories.

 

Couple that with the complete absence of REAL miraculous miracles in my life, and faith fell. The final test was spending the last 3 years of my church attendance praying one single prayer. "God, please reveal yourself in a way that is real to me, that I may believe." He answered with my christian wife deciding she wanted to explore her feelings for other men enough to end our marriage.

 

He's just not there.

[been borg again]

southern baptist

 

typical 5 points of savation prayer..#1 I am a sinner... blahblahblah

no works

only faith

No Baptism ( although baptism needs to be done to show your sincere)

OSAS

 

Main reason for walking away..........

 

 

see my ANY GODS? profile.

 

And the Hell doctrine vs. the value I place upon the concept and meaning of Unconditional Love, started the ball rolling.

 

Studing the early develpment of the Bible, canon process, extra-biblical books

opened the flood gates.

 

Studing Creationsim vs. Evo... took me to the point of no return.

 

Critical thinking and Logical Fallacy study was the final straw and solidified my deconversion.

[pandora]

Tap,

 

I'm not sure the question here is framed correctly.  Perhaps for some.  Speaking for myself, and several others from what I've read, I did not "give back" my salvation.  I spent several grueling years searching for truth (at least 5 before I realized I didn't believe any more), determined to accept the results no matter the outcome.  I went to the university, got a degree.  I read countless books.  I travelled and debated with people from other cultures and other countries.  Finally one day I realized that I just didn't believe anymore.  I didn't decide it, it just was.  Before I'm accused, I was once a die hard, committed christian.  I cared deeply for my friends, those of which I was afraid were going to hell.  At one point I wanted to become a missionary because I cared so deeply that others hear the truth of the gospel.  I prayed and sought god's will daily.  I was a christian.  It was because I wanted the real thing that I ended up losing my faith, not in spite of it. 

 

So, to frame the question as "walked away" would not be accurate for me.  I prefer "grew up" or "grew out of it." 

 

I know you are asking legitimate questions so want you to know that I am only trying to provide a legitimate response.  Please accept it in that spirit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Grew out of it... I think that is an excellent way to describe it.

[Lokmer]

Grew out of it... I think that is an excellent way to describe it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Indeed.

[Totallyatpeace]

"And the Hell doctrine vs. the value I place upon the concept and meaning of Unconditional Love, started the ball rolling."

 

So the big issue is that God's love can't possibly be unconditional when it includes the doctrine of hell?

[pandora]

"And the Hell doctrine vs. the value I place upon the concept and meaning of Unconditional Love, started the ball rolling."

 

So the big issue is that God's love can't possibly be unconditional when it includes the doctrine of hell?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

In general, yes, but more specifically if you meld the concept of God promoted by Christianity (God wants all to be saved), then it gets even more tenuous.

 

I could see an argument claiming that God must be just as well as unconditionally loving, but just isn't eternal torment. This is the most convincing rebuttal to this proposal.

[Celsus]

TAP,

 

It goes deeper than the issue of unconditional love and hell. I would posit that the problems inherent with the beliefs themselves, of which hell is one, are far more problematic. To expound a bit, because I know you will ask, let me address the concept of hell.

 

1. Hell is not a Judaic concept, so it would have meant nothing to a Jewish teacher living round 33 AD.

 

2. The Judeo-Christian God is said to be omnipresent, yet hell is separated from God. The two claims are mutually exclusive.

 

3. The concept of infinite punishment for finite crimes/sins itself violates the justice attributes claimed for the Judaic deity.

 

In summation, anythin that violates the law of noncontradiction cannot exist in reality. The Bible God suffers from self-contradiction, just on his claimed attributes. Thus the Bible God cannot exist in reality. If there is a higher powerm then it is not the God of the Bible.

 

Bruce

[pandora]

TAP,

 

It goes deeper than the issue of unconditional love and hell. I would posit that the problems inherent with the beliefs themselves, of which hell is one, are far more problematic. To expound a bit, because I know you will ask, let me address the concept of hell.

 

1. Hell is not a Judaic concept, so it would have meant nothing to a Jewish teacher living round 33 AD.

 

2. The Judeo-Christian God is said to be omnipresent, yet hell is separated from God. The two claims are mutually exclusive.

 

3. The concept of infinite punishment for finite crimes/sins itself violates the justice attributes claimed for the Judaic deity.

 

In summation, anythin that violates the law of noncontradiction cannot exist in reality. The Bible God suffers from self-contradiction, just on his claimed attributes. Thus the Bible God cannot exist in reality. If there is a higher powerm then it is not the God of the Bible.

 

Bruce

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That too. The deeper you dig, the less sense it makes. Just proof that the religion of Christianity has changed more over the years that Christians would liek to think. I often pose this question to Christians-- "Believers in x culture, or x time, believed this... are they still saved? Is that true Christianity" I think it points out that religion is primarily a cultural phenomenon and not a divine revelation.

[Totallyatpeace]

Bruce,

 

If the God of the Bible is not real, I’d really like to hear from you what the attributes of your God would be.

 

Tap

[Celsus]

TAP,

 

1. Non contradictory

 

2. Logically coherent

 

Bruce

[thomas]

What denomination of the Christian Faith were you part of?

 

And what did they teach you was the requirement of becoming a Christian?

Tap

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

0 - 12 years

Baptized in the Danish Lutheran State Church. Went only to Church now and then. Mother read stories from a childrens bible.

 

12 - 20 years

Attended Church of the Nazarene. Became conviced, that I needed to hve my sins forgiven and prayed the sinners prayer together with the pastor.

 

20 - 30 years

Became baptized and member of a pentecostal church.

 

30 - 37 years

Became member of a baptist church.

 

37 - 42 years

Back to Church of the Nazarene.

[Ro-bear]

United Methodist.

 

We sang the catchy part of the Apostle's Creed:

 

Glory be to the Father

And to the Son and to the Holy Ghost.

As it was in the beginning,

Is now, and ever shall be,

World without end.

Amen. Amen.

 

I think you had to believe in Jesus and accept him as your savior.

[Alice]

What denomination of the christian church.... and what did they teach you was the requirement of becoming a Christian?

 

My parents belonged to the Church of England - which is probably home to the widest variety of beliefs of any denomination. Much of the Church of England is very liberal in it's outlook and interpretation of the Bible. My family did NOT belong to this part. My parents were fundamentalist evangelical calvinistic six day literalists.

 

Church of England seemed to teach - to be a member you must be baptised as an infant and then seek 'confirmation', after this the basic requirement was that you took communion a minimum of twice yearly and make jam for the summer fete.

 

My parents thought this to be a wicked travesty and believed that when Yorkminster Cathederal was stuck by lightening - this was a thunderbolt from God and that God would soon be wreaking a terrible wrath on the Church of England for it's apostacy and would restore it to its Reformation Glory.

 

Eventually my Father became so disgruntled with the Cof E he got himself ordained. He hung in there until the Cof E accepted ordination of women - when he left to be part of strange sect called 'The Church of England Continuing' (or 'Previously - in the Church of England' ... as I prefered to call it)

 

To top up the failures of the C of E my parents would take us to freechurch revival meetings where I would regularly pray the sinners prayers (always at least twice during each sitting to give it more of a chance of 'taking')

 

So basically - it was 'Jesus died in my place - accept his offer of salvation by grace (if one of the elect) and then work at sanctification. God loved us so much - that although he accepts us as we are - he doesn't want us to stay that way - and therefore we should daily be transforming into the likeness of Christ'.

 

I rebelled in secret during my teens - went completely wild behind my parents back embracing a life of utter debauchery and drunkeness (in a middle class vicar's daughter kind of way)

 

This made me even more miserable than I'd been as a chritian - so I came back just before I got married and my hubby joined me after being dragged to a Billy Graham Crusade.

 

Why did I walk away? .... You know the way people talk about the fact we are dying from the moment of our birth - I feel this way about my spiritual beliefs.

 

I've travelled down the middle of a dual carriageway in terms of a spiritual path - avoiding the traffic coming in both directions for all my adult life. The literal approach to the Bible that I had been raised to believe was the way it should be approached gradually got chipped away - life happened.

 

It was not so much theological inconsistencies with me - but practical everyday things where I just came to disagree with the Bible, that started this I guess - the first time I ever really questioned the Bible was over the apparent teaching on smacking children, then it was the homophobia, then it was stepford wives thing ...

 

I just trusted it less and less - because at a very basic level so much of the 'advice for living' it gave was so crap. However at the same time we were moving churches heading in a more and more fundamentalist charismatic direction, because we were looking for something more 'real and tangible'. (I did the whole baptism by total immersion about six years ago - and where I'm standing right now I still have fond feelings of that day - I don't understand)

 

Travelling in two directions at once I was bound to snap I suppose. Read some post-modernist theology. My paradigm shifted. Faith disappeared.

[thomas]

I guess my next questions would be--- what was the main or central reason you walked away?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is a long story, but the short answer is, that I started to study some thelogy in my free time. Here I learned, how inconsistent Christianity really is, and that there are no serious historical proofs for the existence of Jesus.

 

I also found out, that the question about the existence of a God isn't a simple one. You need to define, what you mean by "God", and also since we are talking about something outside the normal human realm, you also need to define, what you mean by the word "existence".

 

This was the end of my faith.

[NimbusBirdMgp]

... It be too much to mention everything. But I noticed more strange things working against the Christian Life envolvement I've been dealing with for 10 years in 1979. Not only wasn't I able to see my prayers answered, but sometimes as if God was trying to be really obnoxiously wicked, that things happen like working to make my problems worse with inimicalness. More in the opposite direction for me.

 

... The more I wanted to see cooler and cloudy days to do a job in the 1980's. The hotter and less clouds there was and things really where messing with my well being.

 

... The Christian Dogma I relied on with patience, soon I got to realize that patience is a progress. Not procrastination and even backwords with great opposition. And I started realizing excuses can always be made without reason. I noticed how Christianity was always focused on politics and not agreeing with Science and Facts. I began to think it was for manipulating others and trying to get control of others.

 

... I read up on how they dig up dinasour bones and some of the evolution I was noticing with Nature showed me facts that the Religion doesn't care to pay attention and agree with. I knew then what this Earth and Nature shows as facts and what is claimed hasn't been facts in my life. I noticed a lot of closed mindedness, when my mind was thinking of many things about life outside the box of Christianity. The Christian Religion was being noticed as being very suppressive and repressive with the Dogma. I got wondering about its origion and how primitive life was then. Knowing that we know a lot about the Earth, that would had been something in ancient times for people to explain the things they didn't understand for God. When now we know it is just the Nature and Natural Earth doing things.

 

... Especially when I noticed that I wanted to be finding a gal in my life and my prerequisites where never being met, was having oppositions instead and not any manageable means of getting success with such things in my life.

 

... I'm coming up with another theory about life, which I will be going in my Blog or something later in time, when I can write it up. But as I can really see it. Religion is a Culture that is trying to compete to have the greatest domination of territory on this Earth. It is a Cultural's way of getting control of others to fullfill the same interest and goals for its Culture. It's like using psychology to manipulate others in a political way for a Culture to get its support.

[fallenleaf]

Oh, I have a bunch to add.

 

First I was a Catholic. That required the "traditional" sacraments. From my baptism as a babe to my first communion. Heck, I was even a little altar boy.

 

Let's see... some church hopping, I bunch of baptisms under names I never bothered to learn. Then I was a Mormon... for about two months before my family got out because it was "a cult." I was a fully baptized Mormon in that time... so it counts.

 

A few baptist churchs, a bunch of independant pentecostals... and finally the Assembly of God.

 

Required things for salvation varied at all of these churches. I met all the qualifications each time... so chances are, if there is some magic "requirement" which makes you a Christian -- I have it covered.

[Ouroboros]

It is a long story, but the short answer is, that I started to study some thelogy in my free time. Here I learned, how inconsistent Christianity really is, and that there are no serious historical proofs for the existence of Jesus.

 

I also found out, that the question about the existence of a God isn't a simple one. You need to define, what you mean by "God", and also since we are talking about something outside the normal human realm, you also need to define, what you mean by the word "existence".

 

This was the end of my faith.

 

Yes, Thomas made a good point.

 

Another reason I left my faith, was because I couldn't figure out which version of God to believe in. I couldn't figure out if hell existed or not. So with all the questions about Gods true nature, I realized it was totally up to me to come up with the answers, and the Bible was no longer a guide.

 

This happen probably a year before I lost my faith completely.

[Ro-bear]

I guess my next questions would be--- what was the main or central reason you walked away?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

God and Jesus left the believing part of my brain shortly after Santa and the Easter Bunny. The former had the advantage of not having their nonexistence confirmed by my parents. About as soon as I learned that people could make things up, their knell was knolled.

[Guest Challenger]

I never truly believed so I guess I never actually "walked away".

[Dhampir]

I was raised baptist, like a lot of black people these days. In truth, according to their doctrines, I was never a christian in the first place. For example: Mrs. Trinise, the woman who babysat me and my sister for years, and who was a major part of all church activities, an overall good person (she had a foster child in addition to her daughter) as well as related to our pastor, died, and all I remember hearing about her in sunday school the next week was ' I'm pretty sure she was saved'. What? if you got to wonder about her salvation, what hope is there for us?

 

At any rate, what got me walking away? Abridged deconvert story (which I have yet to write). Well, when I was little, I was incredibly devout, on my knees praying for 15 minute stretches every day, preaching to friends and things of that nature. However even then, I remember a feeling that I wasn't getting anything in return. As I got older I became rather apathetic toward church (my old man played a much larger role in that than I realized until recently)

 

14-15: Pops kicks off, and the aftermath has me nearly as devoted to being saved and all as before. I started becoming apathetic again soon after while at the same time hoping that god would change my heart. I prayed the sinners prayer dozens of times but felt nothing. Then I figured fuck it, he wants me, he'll have me when he's ready.

 

16: I meet my new uncle, who proceeds to blast multiple holes in what I was taught, and I realized I wanted to leave the faith all along, just didn't have a good enough reason to. On the other hand, I got caught up in this cult thing that he followed which claimed to have the unadulterated truth concerning the bible and such. I fell away from that too in time.

 

19: typed anti-christian into google, and found a bunch of info in addition to Ex-Christian, researched tirelessly for like 2 months, and voila.

[Thurisaz]

What denomination of the Christian Faith were you part of?

 

German protestant church.

 

And what did they teach you was the requirement of becoming a Christian?

 

Umm... did they teach me anything about that? Hard to remember, it's been so long ago...

 

...but I think it can be best summed up as "believe, and strive to be like Jesus". In other words, salvation through works, spiced with a bit of faith.

[Amethyst]

What denomination of the Christian Faith were you part of? Missouri Synod Lutheran, born and raised, later switched to United Church of Christ.

 

And what did they teach you was the requirement of becoming a Christian? Both churches used the faith requirement. Missouri Synod, at least the one I went to, also required that you take the Bible as literally as possible and believed it was the actual true word of God. I left because among other reasons, I could no longer do that. I eventually came to the conclusion that the Bible was ancient literature and not to be taken literally. The UCC is more open-minded, but you still have to believe that Jesus was real. Without direct evidence, I couldn't believe in his existence, either.

[Mr. Neil]

What denomination of the Christian Faith were you part of?

 

Heh... denomination. I suppose you could say EXTREME liberal Christian. So extreme, I wasn't even sure if the virgin birth thing was to be taken seriously... nor the resurrection. "Th..that's a myth, right? He was just some guy, right?"

 

 

And what did they teach you was the requirement of becoming a Christian?

 

Be most excellent to each other. And...

 

 

PARTY ON, DUDES!

 

 

 

...seriously though, the basic idea was to be a good person because "God's watching". The Santa Claus principle. That didn't work for very long.