Admin webmdave Posted February 26, 2007 Admin Share Posted February 26, 2007 Sent in by Lance K So I'm done with Christianity, but I have a question that I need your help with. I could give you all my reasons, but as I read the other testimonies here, my own issues resonate well with them. And really, my reasons for leaving are not why I need help. A quick but not complete summary of my reasons would be that I find atheists can have more integrity, tolerance and love than Bible believing Christians, that the search for truth has shown me that Christianity does not have it, that the god of the Old Testament is quite an A-hole, the ugly history of the church - especially the support of slavery in the US, the Christian right-wing and their hatred of gays, and of course that listening to the creation/evolution debate made me realize these people are simply not honest with themselves. So now for my question. I am 45 years old and have a great wife and three kids who are not quite with me on this whole adventure. I'm in the middle of pulling the family from the the Evangelical Church we now attend, and moving to a more liberal church as a bit of a compromise. I don't really buy the stuff at the new church, but at least I can listen to this pastor without wanting to vomit. I love my wife and kids and don't want something as unimportant as doctrine to fuck that up. Have any of you gone through this? Is moving to a more liberal church enough? Is is possible to slowly undo the damage the old church has done to my kids (ages 6, 9 & 11)? Will the new church keep messing up my kids? I feel I can't stay home on Sunday morning because I need to do damage control on the kids after Sunday school. Luckily my wife is a thinking person, and is not dogmatic, but this is a stretch for her, as she grew up in the church. There is tension but she is not completely freaking out. One last piece of history. We had been in a large diverse church in California that could tolerate my free-thinking and questions, but we moved to a rural area and ended up in a more fundamentalist church. It was here that I was confronted with the "inerrant word of god" crap and slowly started to realize that my questions did not have answers. And worse was the the answers these people gave made my head spin with the number of logical fallacies, and just plain screwy reasoning. As I dug deeper, the whole thing came tumbling down. I finally realized that I could be a more whole and loving person by being a ex-Christian. My mind is still too twisted by the many years of Christianity to completely shake myself yet from a belief in God, but the odd thing is that the love thy neighbor stuff of my Christian up-brining actually helped me see what a load of crap the industrial Christianity of America is and helped me find my way out. I'll end with a quote from Margaret Mead. She said "The best thing one can do for oneself is to have a religious experience and then get over it." Thanks for listening. Any ideas would be appreciated. Unless you are going to quote scripture at me and tell me to go back, which will just piss me off. And if you are a Christian that sees this and wants to "help" me, please rest assured that there are lots of people praying for me now. Please let God work through them. This is an ex-Christian web site and I want the perspective of the folks here, not you. Thanks for understanding.http://exchristian.net/testimonies/2007/02...rough-this.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Why waste your time and your family's time going to any church to here some preacher spew out a whole lot of bullshit about a "god" that does not exist based on a book of bullshit fables written so long ago by a bunch of ignorant men and based on Sumerian/Egyptian fables. You don't need any of that. I am a bedraggled refugee from the "Holy" Roman Catholic Church. That is nearly as stupid and bad as those Evangalical Christian Churches. I have the "Jesus Camp" movie and that shocked me to see those poor little kids being brainwashed into all those Christian lies. Just use some logic. What proof is there that there is any "God". If you think about it, you will realise there is non. I have the advantage of being learned in Science, especially Comsology and nothing in that shows that the Universe has "created" by a "creator/god". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I don't now about you, Lance, but for me not even liberal Christianity works. My problem is key theology. It makes no sense to me that humans need saving, but even more fundamental is how the plan of salvation is supposed to function. The problem is that it just doesn't. It does not function. We're supposed to believe that if Jesus had not died we could not get to heaven. But how does his death affect anything? It doesn't. That is what I conclude. Yet that is what distinguishes Christianity--the belief that through the death and resurrection of Christ we are saved. I've found there are Christians who don't put so much emphasis on salvation through the death and resurrection of Jesus. They seem to go more by humanist values. This leaves me asking: Why bother with religion at all? I would expect answers to that question to vary according to the individual being asked. I decided to just stop putting so much energy into finding a way to be Christian without violating my personal integrity. This brought me peace. Maybe I should say it brought me another new level of peace. It's a long story but I've gone through many stages and phases on my way to peace, joy, and liberation. Letting go of God brought me to another level. I did attend more liberal churches on my way out. For me it included a major culture change so the more liberal churches were helpful for the transition. Perhaps it will be helpful for you; that is not something I can tell. For me at this time it would feel like I'm still holding onto the past, fearful of moving on. That is where I am at right now. Everybody's different. You'll have to find what is right for you. Your wife and children will have to find what is right for them. The children may be a bit young yet but the day will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoustonHorn Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I thought about becoming a liberal Christian for a while. At the time I was Baptist, and the inerrant Bible type although it never really seemed quite right. When I started looking at liberal Christianity I realized that I would have to decide which parts of the Bible are literal and which parts are fables. To me the most likely candidate for fable was Jesus's resurrection, but that event is the defining event of Christianity so I figured it had to be literal. Since I couldn't get my mind wrapped around that, I decided to go with agnosticism which is slowly leading its way into atheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jella Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 <span style="font-style:italic;">Sent in by Lance K</span> So I'm done with Christianity, but I have a question that I need your help with. I could give you all my reasons, but as I read the other testimonies here, my own issues resonate well with them. And really, my reasons for leaving are not why I need help. A quick but not complete summary of my reasons would be that I find atheists can have more integrity, tolerance and love than Bible believing Christians, that the search for truth has shown me that Christianity does not have it, that the god of the Old Testament is quite an A-hole, the ugly history of the church - especially the support of slavery in the US, the Christian right-wing and their hatred of gays, and of course that listening to the creation/evolution debate made me realize these people are simply not honest with themselves. Wow it's amazing how similar this paragraph reads for my reasons for being fed up. Lance, I don't have kids, and I didn't move to a more liberal church, but found myself associating with liberal Christians. Usually they said they despised organized religion, but still believed in god. As HoustonHorn stated, I found myself more agnostic and now I do consider myself atheist. I hope others can lend their experiences with your situation, but just want you to know that I feel for you, and others that are in relationships ( marriage) with kids that have to face this. I do find, however, that as you've stated your there to counter the fundy crap, and I do think that will help in the long run. Having respected my father, I know how important a Dad's influence can be. He always made us think. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkpoet Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 enjoyed your post. alot like my own experices and my delima. my wife has been very understanding and even emotionally supportive of me since i lost my religion back in august. and we have three kids, 9, 10, and 12. she wants to take them to church once a week (suday morning) some of the guys responding to your post may not be facing the same situation. not sure why i am responding becasue i have no idea yet what im going to do. i believe that religion can be destructive...everything from the extremes of brainwashing and even killing and dying for god to just the simple problems it cuases (i thinnk religion causes some brain damage...encourages you not to think, be curious, continue learning all your life) all that being said, when one looks at the religion of my wife, she treats it like a social club that encourages some basic moral behaviour. and the stuff she doesnt agree with, she ignores. for instance, she does not buy in to the "christian role for women" as silent, obedient, and such. i sure as hell dont want my daughters or my son raised to believe that women are second rate humans, but neither does my wife. i wonder how damaging church can be if they dont take it any more seriously that she does. and then i will be there to talk to them about the topic too. i attend with them maybe once or twice a month, but i can tell it bothers the wife a little when i go. probably becasue it can not contain my occasional smirk or giggle at some blatently ignorant comment by a "leader" in the church. it is amazing how badly theses guys often misinterpret scripture...i dont mean to sound arrogant, but with out going into detals or examples, often the most basic, intrepretive or comprehension skills escape these readers. yet they speak with such confidence. and im off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 My kids are 10, 8 and 6. I am married. I was a CHristian for 17 years before deconverting a year ago. I feel for you on the family stuff. My wife takes my three kids to fundy church every week. They go to Wednesday night every week. Similar to you I see myself as the solace and support for them when they are being fed the bull shit. My oldest son watches science shows on TV with me. I can't stand chruch anymore. enjoyed your post. alot like my own experices and my delima. my wife has been very understanding and even emotionally supportive of me since i lost my religion back in august. and we have three kids, 9, 10, and 12. she wants to take them to church once a week (suday morning) some of the guys responding to your post may not be facing the same situation. not sure why i am responding becasue i have no idea yet what im going to do. i believe that religion can be destructive...everything from the extremes of brainwashing and even killing and dying for god to just the simple problems it cuases (i thinnk religion causes some brain damage...encourages you not to think, be curious, continue learning all your life) all that being said, when one looks at the religion of my wife, she treats it like a social club that encourages some basic moral behaviour. and the stuff she doesnt agree with, she ignores. for instance, she does not buy in to the "christian role for women" as silent, obedient, and such. i sure as hell dont want my daughters or my son raised to believe that women are second rate humans, but neither does my wife. i wonder how damaging church can be if they dont take it any more seriously that she does. and then i will be there to talk to them about the topic too. i attend with them maybe once or twice a month, but i can tell it bothers the wife a little when i go. probably becasue it can not contain my occasional smirk or giggle at some blatently ignorant comment by a "leader" in the church. it is amazing how badly theses guys often misinterpret scripture...i dont mean to sound arrogant, but with out going into detals or examples, often the most basic, intrepretive or comprehension skills escape these readers. yet they speak with such confidence. and im off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkpoet Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 man...i have to get back to work actually. but how did you come to deconverting? what influenced you? we need to talk man, sounds like we have a similiar situation. email me if you want dude. have a good afternoon all. jfox@wellston.k12.ok.us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramen666 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Why stay in church when you know that God is an A-hole? Why go when you know atheists are kinder, more tolerant than Christians? That does not make since to me because wouldn't you want to get away from it all. A Christian is a Christian liberal or conservative is still a Christian they still believe in God and you said yourself God is a fucking bitch. Why would you still worship he/she/it? That is what bothers me the most about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I've found there are Christians who don't put so much emphasis on salvation through the death and resurrection of Jesus. They seem to go more by humanist values. This leaves me asking: Why bother with religion at all? I would expect answers to that question to vary according to the individual being asked. I decided to just stop putting so much energy into finding a way to be Christian without violating my personal integrity. This brought me peace. Maybe I should say it brought me another new level of peace. It's a long story but I've gone through many stages and phases on my way to peace, joy, and liberation. Letting go of God brought me to another level. What resurrection of Jesus? He did not die on the cross. He was revived. It is a trick he learned during his time in Egypt; learned from the Temple Priests who were famous for their magic. Theology is all bullshit. It is based on the assumption the there is a "god". The reis no "god", so what use is theology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I tried liberal Christianity myself. It was what led me to realize it was all a bunch of balogne and I was only fooling myself by cherry picking. I had been brought up in a Missouri Synod Lutheran church and had to go to a church school through 6th grade, so I was very much brought up on the fundy side. So there is hope. It just takes time to undo the old programming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 What resurrection of Jesus? Since it was through me that you found this site, Eccles, I feel some responsibility here. I did not invite you on here to poke fun at people who have not deconverted to the same extent that you have. Perhaps you have never been a Christian. Or perhaps you deconverted so long ago that you forget what it was like being a Christian. If this is the case, please be aware that this forum exists for the encouragement of people who have deconverted or are in the process of doing so. If you want to know more about the resurrection of Jesus, read the New Testament. Attend a church service on Easter. You don't have to remain ignorant on the matter. He did not die on the cross. He was revived. It is a trick he learned during his time in Egypt; learned from the Temple Priests who were famous for their magic. Eccles, you don't know this. It seems you have chosen to accept this theory as fact. You cannot, however, propose it as proven fact because it cannot be proven. what use is theology. Is this a serious question? Or are you mocking me for my interest in theology? Learning theology is not bullshit anymore than learning philosophy or psychology are bull shit. All are ways to understand why humans behave and think as they do. For me, this is worth considerable study. I believe that people have the right to believe what they want so long as they don't hurt anyone. By mocking people for their struggle with Christian teachings you are hurting people. (The resurrection of Jesus is definitely a Christian teaching.) Allow them to work through the issues. Suggest other ideas if you wish. Just don't mock anyone, no matter how much you disagree with them, okay? No, I am not a moderator here. I just have an opinion on how people should behave based on established traditions. Like I said, since you found out about this forum through me I feel some level of responsibility. I have now explained things and so you are now on your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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