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Trying Not To Be Supersticious....


Japedo
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(((( RUBY )))))) Again, My deepest sympathies for your loss. Death is such a hard thing to grasp, and to deal with, it is for me anyway. I think it's only human nature that we try to make sense of things that make no sense. I'm sorry the site went down when you seem to need us most. Sometimes it seems as if life deals a double whammy. You can reach some of us via email or Myspace for *IF* this ever happens again. Ex-C does have a group over on Myspace, and you can maybe post a bulletin or something next time.

 

I'm sorry I don't have more words of comfort for you.

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Thanks so much Japedo. It's so wonderful when people understand the unspoken needs.

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The death of a loved one is often a very emotionally traumatizing experience. The imagined connection between that death and the forums going down is rooted in that very emotion. It's nothing more significant than a case of Nurture capitalising on Nature's propensity to look for pattern and meaning in random, disconnected events.

 

'Course, you obviously already know that, so I'll stop playing the cold, logical a-hole. If/when something like this happens again, hopefully you'll be able to find some support through one of the alternative extentions of the community here. :)

 

Apologies, I'm not very good at the whole sympathy thing. :unsure:

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Thanks, Woody, you tried. That means something. This site was down again just a bit ago. Seems I need an address of some kind. I don't know how to contact people on their MySpace. Oh yeah, now I remember. Some of you post yours on this site so I should get on while I can.

 

I have a batch of email friends. I have this penchant for collecting friends and email addresses. I sent a long message out to a lot of folks and got some feedback so it's not like I was totally alone. I did not even see the connection about superstition until Japedo pointed it out. And even less did I have it all analyzed like you did so I learned something. Thanks.

 

In addition, I went to class this afternoon for no other reason than to connect with people whom I knew would be sympathetic. It's good having you folks here, too. All the others are Christian. Fortunately, no one tried the sappy approach of "We all know she's in heaven. She has it much nicer there than she could ever have had it here." They were just plain humans who understood about supporting fellow humans.

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Wow... I must have missed something. Your mom passed recently, Ruby? What happened, if you don't mind me asking?

 

 

Take care of yourself. *hugs*

 

And if you makes you feel any better, my husband, who has been jobless for the past six months (because God is trying to tell us something, according to his mom), finally got a job a couple weeks ago. I think it's safe to assume that God has nothing to do with getting jobs, deceased parents, manipulative parents, or internet sites going down. ;)

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Ruby,

 

Myspace Addy is: http://www.myspace.com/japedo70 (Hyper link Here my page is set to private, but add me or I can add you either way. Also at the top of the Ex-C page you'll see a "myspace" that's the Ex-C group page.

 

Email I'll send ya Private PM! :D

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Japedo, I got your email and replied so I get you in my address book. I'm not taking this forum for granted anymore!

 

Pandora, yes, my mother passed away in the wee hours Saturday morning and the funeral was yesterday. Here is the story. People here were very supportive through the brief illness and all but it all got lost when the server crashed.

 

Her body was worn out. She has been tired ever since I've known her--she has always been "old" for her age. I believe it's been psychosomatic all these years.

 

Her mother died when she was about four years old. I suspect there was no one to help the family deal with the grief and that it got interpreted as the feeling of being a sinful person saved only through the grace of God via trust in Jesus' salvific death on the cross. Her religion, esp. the part about how much Jesus suffered on the cross, seemed to be a major comfort for her.

 

Now that I know what it feels like to lose a parent as an adult, I can see that if a little child lost a parent and had no outlet for the grief that it could wear out the body and shorten the lifespan by ten or twenty years. She was 74.

 

I don't think she is a totally innocent "victim" because I figured out about fifteen years ago that she needed counseling. I even found a counselor whom I felt would be a good personality fit but she refused. Thus, there are huge, major issues tied in with all of this. I feel satisfied that I did all I could from my side while she was yet living and of sound mind.

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I'm sorry about your mother Ruby. Maybe I'm way off here, but it sounds like you have a little guilt that you were not able to help her. I'd suggest you read the book, "My Mother, Myself" by Nancy Friday to help begin cutting the psychic hold your mother still has on you.

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Perhaps I am feeling some subconscious guilt but I am not aware of it. Mainly, I am trying to explain why she died of old age at such a young age. People aren't supposed to die of old age at 74 these days, and if medical personnel had their way she would not have died. However, she had written documentation that no life support should be used and that life should not be extended by heroic means of any kind. She did not enjoy life. Life for her was a burden to be endured with the help fo the Lord. She wanted to die when the time came.

 

My sister who was with her that last day felt very frustrated. She knew Mom's wishes. Mom was no longer able to speak for herself but we as a family knew her wishes. The hospital had a very hard time accepting this. Not at 74. When I tell people her age they all respond that 74 is so young. So I feel a need to explain and all I have is my own homespun theory. At one time I was using counselors. One of them seemed like a person Mom might feel comfortable with, so I suggested she try him. One of my counselors (I tried a variety because they didn't really work for me) seemed an esp. good fit for her, in my opinion. He was a devoute Christian and client-oriented. In other words, he did not impose his ideas on us, even though our religion and culture differed significantly from his.

 

To some extent, my desire to help Mom feel happier was pretty self-centered for me. Rationnal: If she were a happier, better balanced person, she would be a much nicer person to have around and my life might be more bearable. We might actually be able to have a healthy mother-daughter relationship. I had made major use of self-help books to figure out why I personally was so desperately unhappy. Via self-help books I was able to turn my own life around.

 

Using what I learned from self-help books, and perhaps a few social work courses, I raised the topic one day about her mother's death. I told her that one of my counselors had suggested that she may not have truly grieved the loss of her mother. Friends, as we discussed the topic, the atmosphere of the room was electric. So MUCH unexpressed and very deep pain was left over from her early childhood. She refused to get help. I fully believe this contributed to her early death. Thus, I think it's more by way of explanation than due to guilt that I tell these things.

 

Insofar as there was not sufficient help available to help her grieve as a little child, she was a victim of circumstances. Insofar as she refused to get help in her adulthood, I think she is responsible. Dad was sure the answer lay in health food, organic food and organic medicine. He read major amounts of literature on the topic. He started his research in about 1970 when it was very contraversial, esp. with his family. Mom was sure she would be completely unable to work were it not for her expensive organic medicine and treatments. It seems no one ever questioned this, even when decades of treatment did not improve her energy level.

 

As already stated, I read major amounts of mental health literature for my own search and found it very helpful but she did not want to go there. I got to the point about twenty years ago where I had to just let go of the family. I wanted so much to help everyone see the insights I was learning but they resisted. I washed my hands of them and focused on making something of my own life.

 

The book you suggest does sound like a good one. Thank you.

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but it's quite a challenge. Maybe it was God after all who struck down my mom and this site the same day. We buried her body yesterday (absolute end; resurrection is said to be certain) and I return from the funeral to find this server completely down (absolutely no way to connect; resurrection may be possible). Today the site is up and running, maybe a bit shakily and incomplete but up all the same. Kinda like my life....

 

 

I'm very sorry for the loss of your mom. Be sure of yourself and give credit to her life by living and enjoying yours. Be well.

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The main site was still up, I think you could have contacted some of us from our posts on the main blog. I know it's easy to draw some conclusion based off the timing of the events but once you step back and realize how many people use the site, it isnt logical to think it was struck down becuase of you. Of course, emotional times often make it hard to analyze things well. I have been in similiar situations myself so I understand it's easier to say it from the outside then to recognize it from the inside.

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First of all, Ruby, my sincerest condolences. Losing loved ones is rarely easy, and it never comes at a good time. There are no "good times" for that sort of thing :(

 

Maybe it was God after all who struck down my mom and this site the same day.

 

I've felt like this a few times here and there since deconverting. The human heart is a funny instrument, and can lead us astray.

 

We are programmed to believe that God rewards and punishes us, both in this world and the next. Just try to refresh yourself with the facts about the impossibility of God and the wickedness of Xianity whenever trying emotions like these come up - I found that to be very helpful.

 

It's hard enough having lost a loved one, but don't complicate it by letting your imagination (and your fears) run away with you. If the vengeful whackjob of the Babble were true, then he did a sloppy job, since the site is up and running again, and he's an asshole for murdering you rmother because of your religion. But you know a god like that cannot possibly exist, since all the characteristics ascribed to God are so contradictory.

 

Don't hurt yourself - you've got enough to shoulder right now :(

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Thanks for all your ideas and condolences. I'm feeling more like myself again today and it's really hard to see me writing that post. But I know I wrote it and I know it made sense at the time. It was a really serious challenge not to believe that: Yes, God must be real because only God could have timed the server failure and my mom's funeral to happen on the same day.

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*Hugs* I'm thinking of you, Ruby.

 

One of the hardest lessons in life I've learned is that everybody has to live their own. I know my mom and your mom were very close in personality, so I empathise that despite the grief, loss, and frustration, you've also got some emptiness going of "Well, that's it then. How pointless that's how she chose to end her life."

 

In her own way, your mom was still a very good teacher and gave you a great gift setting an example in your life. Maybe it wasn't a good one, and initally that sounds kind of awful. I'm not indicating she existed simply as an example of what not to do in life, but that she really DID make something of herself. She made a difference in the life of at least one person, you, so it was NOT a life wasted.

 

You sound like your on the right track and very strong still in spite of how shakey everything feels right now. Keep taking care of yourself.

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I'm sorry to hear about your mama, Ruby. (((Sincere hugs for you.)))

 

How are you holding up? Are you ok?

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Hey Kurari, thanks. I know you know a lot of what "went before," as we shared a lot of similar struggles with our moms. But yeah, there's an emptiness where she used to be. It's kind of like half the horizon has been cleared of all landmarks and it's just empty. I keep wanting to tell her all about what everything was like having a funeral in our very own home. (Funerals are always in the home of the deseased or close relative if the diseased does not have a large enough house/property.) And then I realize she's not there anymore and it was HER funeral. So part of my brain accepts that and arrives at the conclusion. THEN, with this new-found insight and conclusion I think, "Now I've really got a story to tell Mom." And on and on infinitum. Oh well, eventually the reality will sink in and eventually I'll get used to the new reality.

 

It's a lot like it was when Dad had his stroke. At the time, one of my sisters and I were renting a home about five miles from our parents. Dad would drop by sometimes and do things for us. Then he had a fairly serious stroke. Not life-threatening but not mild, either. I kept thinking of things to ask Dad to do next time he dropped by. Then I'd have to remind myself that Dad won't be "dropping by" anymore. It was as though Dad had died and in his place was this crippled old man. He turned 74 this winter but he's an old man in many ways. He lost some of his keen wit and throughout Mom's illness and hospitalization he deferred to his children (my siblings) who were looking after them. It's a really large family so the responsibilities were divided among different people.

 

The difference is that Dad's body is still here, and some vestages of his former self are also still present. Mom has been deteriorating for years. About two years ago I thought the end was very near for sure. But she lived for quite a while longer.

 

Panther, thanks for your sympathy. I do have people nearby who have been supportive and whom I can contact if I need support. This forum has been very helpful, too. Losing a member of my immediate family to death is a new experience for me and I don't know what the process will be like for me. I know not everybody gets to be fifty before they lose a close family member but that is what it's been for me. I always felt like I couldn't truly empathize with people who lost someone close to them. Right now I find myself glomming onto anything and everything I read where an adult's mother died. I can't imagine what it must be like for children who are still dependent on Mom. My mother was one of those who lost her birth mother at a very young age.

 

I forget where I mentioned that--possibly in one of the threads that got deleted with the server break-down. I think Mom never really had the opportunity and help to grieve the loss of her mother so long ago. At one point I really wanted her to go see a therapist. I'd even found one whom I thought might be a really good match for her. She refused to go. Now that I know what it feels like losing mom as an adult, I can see that if one never gets to fully mourn the loss of a mother in childhood that it can eat away at her insides so that the lifespan is shortened by a decade or two. Her mom died of a heart attack at about age 40. My mom died of failure of vital organs at age 74.

 

She's always been "old." She's always had an overpowering need to be center of the universe. Consistency was not one of her strong points though she thought it was. And her relationship with her feelings--it was nonexistent. So many signs that she needed help but she refused. She has now been laid to rest. Her troubles are over. My life goes on. No more worries about how to relate to mom, how to keep the commandment: Honour thy father and thy mother, when doing so to her satisfaction was practically impossible. The challenge at the moment is how to be realistic and not make her out to be a saint or a criminal. Eventually I'll get used to the situation and I might get these difficult issues sorted out, or perhaps they will sort of just diminish and fade away. What is important is how I live my life because life is for the living and we get only once chance.

 

Thanks again to all for your support and sympathy.

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Your post made me think of deaths in my life also....I lost my dad when I was twenty-one. I am thirty-seven now and there still isn't a time when I don't think of him.

I remember each death though, me feeling like everything was very surreal and I was quite numb for a while. Recently in this past year, my own mother has cut off me and my daughter. (her only grandchild who is only eleven and a quite wonderful, loving little girl)

She called me up one day and told me that both of us were dead to her and gave some ridiculous reasons that will never make sense to me. In all honestly, I think her mind is going....

But going through that was in reality like another death...as we do not communicate anymore and it is really sad.

 

But you are so right when you say life is for the living....we only have now and hopefully we can live with the thinking that life is short and we need to enjoy what is there.

 

I'm so glad you have a good support system. Death is hard to deal with especially with a parent.

((More hugs for you))

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