Email

[sheilanagig]

Someone posted an email they got about a girl who was walking alone and stopped to pray and didn't get raped, while the girl behind her did. I have this aunt who sends me all these xian emails. She also sends these circle-jerk patriotic ones, but that's another rant altogether.

 

Anyway, I wish she'd stop sending them. I've been polite up until now, but I think it's the very peak of arrogance and obnoxiousness to assume that the person you're sending them to is also xian. We've established that they're a very vocal minority in our society. I wish they'd wake up and smell the coffee. What bothers me is the idea that she might know I'm not xian, so she's trying to convert me. I should care less. Should I tell her that I'm not, and that if she's trying to make me one she might as well save the wear on her mouse when she directs them to me? I don't need any more insipid emails about the power of Gawd almighty to bring me luck, make me rich, get me friends if only I believe enough. The worst ones are the ones full of righteous indignation because some evildoer wants to take prayer out of school or the ten commands off the front of the courthouse, or omit religious mottos from our money. I'm going to start scribbling out that motto on all my dollar bills from now on. Heh. I'd probably land in prison for defacing currency. It's that garbage that they print on it that defaces it, not me. Who gives a rat's ass what they do or don't print on a Pepsi can? (And it was Dr. Pepper that did that, not Pepsi, but nobody said xians in a froth were able to research their little nasty-grams before sending them.)

 

Even better yet are the ones people send that say, "if you agree with this, Gawd bless y'all and pass it on to all your hateful little fundy friends. If you don't agree, delete it and keep your trap shut. We don't want to hear disagreement." What kind of cheap-assed tactic is that? I mean, that's a childish way to communicate. It's not really meant to be communication, though. It's more like someone leaving a flaming bag of dogshit on your front door and running away so you won't be able to beat the crap out of them.

 

Seriously, I've thought about sending her an email telling her to cease and desist. Other times I've thought about making the language a little bit stronger. I love my aunt, but I didn't sign up for the cavity-inducing emails for jeebus or the other ones telling me who the Lawd is mad at and why I should get bent out of shape over it too.

[R. S. Martin]

I think you need to figure out what kind of relationship you want with her. If you really like getting emails from her but just hate this one little part of them, I suggest skipping the parts you don't like and just reading the parts you like. If her emails are nothing but evangelizing crap you might want to tell her. However, who else do you want to know about your religious position? Do the rest of your relatives know? Do you care if they know?

 

Beyond your family and other relatives, does it matter whether or not people in your geographical community know? Will it affect your ability to find work as in employees refusing to hire an unbeliever? I spilt my beans accidentally to one person only and now the entire extended family and faith community know. At least I assume they do. Somehow they figured out (without asking me) that I don't have church membership anywhere and because I don't have church membership I was not going to be allowed to eat with my family at mom's funeral earlier this week.

I had no idea that this decision was based on such a technicality. When I found out the evening before the funeral that this is what the decision was based on I clarified that I have not revoked my membership with a church I attended some years ago. Nobody asked me what I believe about God--I was prepared for that question. All they wanted to know was that I have formal membership. Apparently that piece of paper means more than what I actually believe. Somehow it symbolizes a commitment. It's a commitment I broke a long time ago but that seems not to matter. I don't understand. But what I am trying to say here is whether or not you correct your aunt may or may not have far-reaching consequences, depending on a whole batch of other things in your life that I don't know.

[sheilanagig]

You're in something of a different situation, which is a real shame in your case. I wish that it were not a matter of being shunned by your family and community. That's not fair or loving. I can never get over how the religion of love and forgiveness can so suddenly turn into one of hate and resentment. It's enough to make family break their allegiance for one another and treat one another like crap. I could weep when I hear of things like this happening.

 

I think my family know I am not religious, and for some odd reason I think it would be fine with them as long as they thought I was nominally religious. I don't know how some of them would take it if they knew that I don't believe or want anything to do with their religion or any other. I think some of them would be offended, but I like to think that they'd still sit down to dinner with me. It would be a matter of how I brought it up. If I simply said that I'd prefer that not to be a topic of discussion to save potentially hurt feelings, I think they'd accept that. If I out and out told them that I thought they were being stupid in their choice of belief and tore it down before their eyes, I don't think they'd appreciate it. The small and bitter part of me sometimes fantasizes about doing that, but the best part of me knows that they're family, and that would be no more loving to family or fair than shunning is.

 

I may just continue deleting them and not saying anything. It seems that as long as you don't say anything against xianity here you are fine. You don't have to say things for it, that's optional. Just don't speak against it. That's the accepted polite thing to do.

 

Basically all I was doing was venting how I felt about them. I think she's being obnoxious, but that doesn't make it alright for me to throw it back in kind.

[R. S. Martin]

Basically all I was doing was venting how I felt about them. I think she's being obnoxious, but that doesn't make it alright for me to throw it back in kind.

 

You are so right! This thing about atheists having no morals is so clearly a misguided idea. But it seems it's one they need to tell themselves in order to feel good about their perceived sacrifices they make for christ. For the most part I try to steer clear of that kind of conversation because we will never ever agree on it.

[sheilanagig]

Basically all I was doing was venting how I felt about them. I think she's being obnoxious, but that doesn't make it alright for me to throw it back in kind.

 

You are so right! This thing about atheists having no morals is so clearly a misguided idea. But it seems it's one they need to tell themselves in order to feel good about their perceived sacrifices they make for christ. For the most part I try to steer clear of that kind of conversation because we will never ever agree on it.

 

You should read the "Women and the Bible" in the Lion's Den. This aunt is the same one who was called a whore and had a pastor refuse to baptize her child in the Missouri Synod. I can't figure her out. I'm guessing it has to do with her surviving cancer recently. I suppose that makes some people want to get right with Jeebus just in case, but I wish she wouldn't spread it around so much.

 

As for morals, I feel that I have better morals than most xians. I don't go around hurting people for an arbitrary reason like the babble. I try to treat everyone with respect in real life. Here I sometimes fall into the fallacy of thinking the other people aren't real because it's the internet. I try not to, though. I just believe that most xians can be hurtful and cruel, and they hide behind their religion to do it. That's reprehensible to me. What kills me, KILLS me, is when they're congratulating each other for their righteousness after having done something especially evil.

[DanInPA]

The last time I got a "gawd's miracles" e-mail from my brother I replied to everyone he sent it to, with the question "Doesn't god like amputees?" and a link to Why Won't God Heal Amputees?

 

He's since bocome very selective about the shit he forwards to me.

 

Dan

[sheilanagig]

The last time I got a "gawd's miracles" e-mail from my brother I replied to everyone he sent it to, with the question "Doesn't god like amputees?" and a link to Why Won't God Heal Amputees?

 

He's since bocome very selective about the shit he forwards to me.

 

Dan

 

Do you think that's what I should do, or should I preserve the relationship and just not say anything? I don't want to hurt her feelings, and I feel as if anything I said to discourage this activity would be percieved by her as threatening her faith.

[R. S. Martin]

Do you think that's what I should do, or should I preserve the relationship and just not say anything? I don't want to hurt her feelings, and I feel as if anything I said to discourage this activity would be percieved by her as threatening her faith.

 

Sheila, I don't think anyone can tell you what you "should" do. This is a personal decision for you. Yes, she would perceive that you are threatening her faith. How she perceives things is her problem, not yours. It becomes your problem when it affects the relationship between the two of you. If that relationship is affected in a way that does not feel good for you then it becomes your problem. That is why I asked what kind of relationship you want with your aunt--do you want a close, intimate, loving relationship or would you like more space?

 

From where I stand on this side of the internet it looks like you feel very angry about the emails she is writing to you. I get the impression you don't care all that much for the relationship but that you are still bound by some religious values that say you have to act a certain way in a certain situation. I realize that the view I am getting may be very seriously distorted. For that reason I hope you will do your own thinking and problem-solving. Don't expect internet contacts to make your decisions for you.

[Kurari]

You can tell her politely, "Thank you for thinking of me, but please don't send these types of e-mails to me anymore." If she asks way, just say they make you uncomfortable, and you only have to elaborate as far saying that you consider spirituality a very personal thing, and repeat that over and over again if you have to. You don't have to explain one single thing about your beliefs or get confrontational.

 

You can say as much or as little as you want, but be very clear as to why you are saying it. It can be very frustrating being associated with a belief system when nobody's bothered to ask you, but this happens pretty much wherever the majority religion is. If you lived in Iran, people would assume you were Muslim. If you lived in Japan, people would assume you were Buddhist. This is the way things are. While not clarifying your beliefs might feel like "hiding," it's really not. It's still taking a stand.

 

There are times and places to wave flags and banners and proclaim "I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN!" This board is a good example of that. Open debates with people you know and are willing to listen and discuss are as well. But getting into the faces of our friends or loved ones is often counter productive, so gentler tacts are necessary. We can lead and show our pride in our beliefs just by being a shining example. It's not an all or nothing situation.

[R. S. Martin]

Kurari, as usual I like what you say. You're so gentle and tactful. But what does one do when confronted with a person who cannot see that her way of being a good example might not be an example at all but a blot on society? She has been so indocrinated that dressing a certain way and doing certain things are in and of themselves a "good exampe." Maybe I've just seen too much of religion this past week.

[sheilanagig]

I finally told her. I got an email from her which was talking about how "those atheists want to take our god away and take it out of the pledge of allegiance" crap. I sent her an email explaining where I stood, and that I felt that the email she sent me was meant to be derogatory to people like me. I was respectful. I told her that I wouldn't dream of trying to deconvert her or stop loving her as family because of her religion. She was very nice in response. Now I think we understand each other a little better than we did.

 

As for me, I'm no longer afraid so much to be open about my atheism. I looked it up, and my work is an EOE. That means that they can't fire me or harass me over that issue, so long as I return the favor and don't get in their hair about my own beliefs. They agreed to that when they became an equal opportunity employer.

[Casey]

Someone posted an email they got about a girl who was walking alone and stopped to pray and didn't get raped, while the girl behind her did. I have this aunt who sends me all these xian emails. She also sends these circle-jerk patriotic ones, but that's another rant altogether.

 

They seem to be forever making stuff up like that. Pocket new testaments stopping bullets and all that kind of rot. Mere coincidence. Bullets have also been stopped by lurid paperback novels, but they never mention these incidents. I know of one yarn where an Australian soldier in Viet Nam was supposed to have stepped on a Jumping Jack (Bouncing Betty to Americans). It didn't explode and was cleared in due course.

 

That thing was a version of the WW2 German Springer mine. A charge would blow, sending a cannister about waist-high, then that would explode. Rather nasty. They were apparently pretty reliable too, but nothing's fool proof, if only because fools are so ingenious .

 

No one worked out why the bloody thing didn't go off, could have been any one of a dozen reasons. Anyway that one led to a bit of superstitious speculation amongst various christians and other non-critical thinkers. However, I've not heard of any of them taking up a hobby of playing hopscotch in minefields to prove a point.

Casey