Common Sense Christianity Vs. Fanaticism

[Guest Little Terra]

One of my biggest gripes as a christian is that when I go to church, sadly, I find so many people that are for lack of a better phrase "weak willed" just sitting there. Personaly I question everything, both because the bible says its what you are supposed to do and because when you get right down to it NONE of us know anything at all, period. It seems to be the biggest problem of all, and has been ever since religion first came into being. As long as there is a church there have been those to take advantage of the confused and unguided masses. Now I know im going to get slammed for this but I dont have a bible on hand or I would point out the places where jesus told people to think for themselves, so in a way other people are now adding another layer of frustration by being fanaticly devoted to somethign they dont even understand at its most basic level. It is because of this that I would like to post a little something here to see what people think. Before you say anything yes I realize that the people here most likley are not christian... the name gave it away a bit. But I would still like the honest opinion of those from the outside, a simple, unbiased view of an idea of common sense christianity Versus the blind faith and fanaticism that has blinded the church for so very long. Lets start the discussion with a few points.

 

 

A fanatic christian says "god made man out of clay, period".

 

A common sense christian says "you know what? I wasnt there, I didnt see it, possable but unlikely, but it dosent disprove god."

 

An F christian says "if you are bad you go to hell"

 

A CS christian says "You know considering 'Hel' is loki's daughter and the jews have no concept of damnation... im betting this started out as a greko-roman insertion into the new testimate"

 

An F christian says "I have to preach to everyone I see, its the only way to save them

 

A CS christian says "you know, Ill just try and follow the example of jesus, and if people like it, ill tell them. better than going around pissing people off all day"

 

An F christian says "you have to follow the teachings of jesus if you want eternal life"

 

A CS christian says "You know what, following jesus and his example of loving your fellow man and trying to caring about those around you may be a better example than the interpritatoin of some repressed pedophile nazi declairing war on those who dont fit the mold"

 

An F christian says "Video games, The occult and those things that spring from it, pornography and homosexuality are SURE ways to hell"

 

A CS christian says "I dont have the info to deal with that, its gods call not mine, if you feel ok do it."

 

I say "Not now, Im surfing the 4chan yuri section while Never Winter Nights 2 Installs!"

 

An F christian says "You are wrong, god exists becasue the bible says so, and thats all the proof anyone should need."

 

A CS christian says "you knw what? mayby I am wrong, but mayby your wrong. You cant disprove god, and really in the end everything you 'know' to be true could be proven a lie, just like what would happen if you disproved god, but really dose it matter?"

 

 

Im sorry if the satire got a bit overstated or out of hand, but I think you see my point. I would really like to know what people thing, especially if they think more christians are fantatic christians or common sense christians. I guess more than anything I want to know what people think about HOW people get into that state of fanaticism and why. I guess its best to post here as it is something that can be analized by people that have a unique insight into this, and that it may spark a discussion. I will leave my opinions to myself now, at least as much as I can, and I am sure that whatever comes out of this the results will be interesting.

[Lycorth]

I think what you call "fanatic" Xianity is also the genuine article, as per the Babble. It would be nice if Xianity was intended to be how you paint it in the "common sense" version, but to be honest, that is a liberalized and modernized view, and hardly accurate as to how the religion was historically taught. Again, it would be nice if actual Xianity were like that, but sadly, tis not.

 

"Common sense Xianity" is an oxymoron.

[Thurisaz]

Sadly I have to agree with Varokhar.

LT, your views are basically okay, but unfortunately, the raving braindead bloodthirsty christianity you call "fanatical" is just as easily justifiable with the bible as the moderate/liberal brand you mention. It all depends on what verses you choose to quote. Those fucking contradictions at least would have to be resolved (in favor of the liberal brand) before one could say that fundyism isn't "genuine".

[Evolution_beyond]

One of my biggest gripes as a christian is that when I go to church, sadly, I find so many people that are for lack of a better phrase "weak willed" just sitting there. Personaly I question everything, both because the bible says its what you are supposed to do and because when you get right down to it NONE of us know anything at all, period. It seems to be the biggest problem of all, and has been ever since religion first came into being. As long as there is a church there have been those to take advantage of the confused and unguided masses. Now I know im going to get slammed for this but I dont have a bible on hand or I would point out the places where jesus told people to think for themselves, so in a way other people are now adding another layer of frustration by being fanaticly devoted to somethign they dont even understand at its most basic level. It is because of this that I would like to post a little something here to see what people think. Before you say anything yes I realize that the people here most likley are not christian... the name gave it away a bit. But I would still like the honest opinion of those from the outside, a simple, unbiased view of an idea of common sense christianity Versus the blind faith and fanaticism that has blinded the church for so very long. Lets start the discussion with a few points.

 

 

A fanatic christian says "god made man out of clay, period".

 

A common sense christian says "you know what? I wasnt there, I didnt see it, possable but unlikely, but it dosent disprove god."

 

An F christian says "if you are bad you go to hell"

 

A CS christian says "You know considering 'Hel' is loki's daughter and the jews have no concept of damnation... im betting this started out as a greko-roman insertion into the new testimate"

 

An F christian says "I have to preach to everyone I see, its the only way to save them

 

A CS christian says "you know, Ill just try and follow the example of jesus, and if people like it, ill tell them. better than going around pissing people off all day"

 

An F christian says "you have to follow the teachings of jesus if you want eternal life"

 

A CS christian says "You know what, following jesus and his example of loving your fellow man and trying to caring about those around you may be a better example than the interpritatoin of some repressed pedophile nazi declairing war on those who dont fit the mold"

 

An F christian says "Video games, The occult and those things that spring from it, pornography and homosexuality are SURE ways to hell"

 

A CS christian says "I dont have the info to deal with that, its gods call not mine, if you feel ok do it."

 

I say "Not now, Im surfing the 4chan yuri section while Never Winter Nights 2 Installs!"

 

An F christian says "You are wrong, god exists becasue the bible says so, and thats all the proof anyone should need."

 

A CS christian says "you knw what? mayby I am wrong, but mayby your wrong. You cant disprove god, and really in the end everything you 'know' to be true could be proven a lie, just like what would happen if you disproved god, but really dose it matter?"

 

 

Im sorry if the satire got a bit overstated or out of hand, but I think you see my point. I would really like to know what people thing, especially if they think more christians are fantatic christians or common sense christians. I guess more than anything I want to know what people think about HOW people get into that state of fanaticism and why. I guess its best to post here as it is something that can be analized by people that have a unique insight into this, and that it may spark a discussion. I will leave my opinions to myself now, at least as much as I can, and I am sure that whatever comes out of this the results will be interesting.

 

 

I was a liberal christian once.

 

But then I ended up seeing lots of flaws in the christian message and so I moved on from christianity in the end.

 

I have no problem with liberal christians. Believe what makes sense to you. As long as you are compassionate to others around you, as long as you are not trying to ram your religion and morals down everyone else's throat then good for you

 

It's the fundies that I have problems with. Don't much like the gently patronising and sneakily controlling christians either.

 

But the liberal christians who accept the findings of science, who believe that members of other religions can get to heaven too, who believe that gays and lesbians are ok and that the Bible has some outdated rules that were part of the culture at the time. Those kind of christians are pretty cool, and I can live along side them quite happily without inwardly fuming.

[Evolution_beyond]

I think what you call "fanatic" Xianity is also the genuine article, as per the Babble. It would be nice if Xianity was intended to be how you paint it in the "common sense" version, but to be honest, that is a liberalized and modernized view, and hardly accurate as to how the religion was historically taught. Again, it would be nice if actual Xianity were like that, but sadly, tis not.

 

To be fair, what you say is not entirely true. The Bible is pretty schizophrenic and contains both judgemental, hellfire stuff and compassionate, tolerant stuff. So liberals and fanatics are both equally justifiable according to the Bible.

 

Historically the judgemental, fanatical side does seem to have prevailed (eg. in the Middle Ages) but I think many fair, decent and tolerant men and women were christians as well.

 

What has happened in Modern times is that the two forms of christian have been more noticeably split into two distinct camps - the fundamentalists on one hand and the liberals on the other.

 

"Common sense Xianity" is an oxymoron.

 

However I do agree with this point

[Antlerman]

I guess more than anything I want to know what people think about HOW people get into that state of fanaticism and why.

This question is key. Fundamentalism does not make a black and white thinking person. But a black and white thinking person will become a fundamentalist because it appeals to that way of thinking. There is no middle ground for this type of personality. "It's all true, or it's all a lie!"

 

That to me reveals someone who probably has an emotional need for strong structure in their life, perhaps grew up with a lack of boundaries being set by parents and never learned to feel safe in the world. Seeking out super-strict religion appeals to them because it provides a sense of security. But as time goes on and the system doesn't fit, they abandon the whole things a total lie and move on to the next "truth". It's not religion that's at fault.

 

There's something for everyone. What we choose is about us.

[Amethyst]

I, too, tried the path of liberal Christianity after I realized I could not be a fundy. Then after a while, I realized that I was only going to church to fit in and gain other people's approval, and I didn't really believe any of it and I hadn't for years. I *wanted* heaven to be real, but I knew that I was cherry picking and chances were good that if the bad stuff wasn't real, then the good stuff wasn't either. It was too hypocritical for me to keep going to church and giving myself the Christian label at that point.

 

I had to be honest with myself. Honesty is one of my key character traits, and always has been. Hence why I am an atheist now.

[HuaiDan]

I think this ties in well to the "Are Christians Delusional?" thread. Kind of like supplemental reading.

[Ouroboros]

I had to be honest with myself. Honesty is one of my key character traits, and always has been. Hence why I am an atheist now.

Almond to that.

 

I think deconversion is born out of the need of honesty to oneself more than the need of knowing the truth. You want to be honest to what you feel and what you know, and you realize that you really don't know much of what you believe, and you believe mostly because you only feel it, and that's why faith really is so fragile when you start being honest.

[nick5]

Common Sense Christianity

 

no such thing

[Piprus]

Common Sense Christianity

 

no such thing

My POV also. The examples you gave of a so-called common sense christian would seem more like humanism with a sprinkling of christianity and/or deism. Bible based christianity does not lend itself to tolerance, humanism, or diversity of thinking.

[R. S. Martin]

Common Sense Christianity

 

no such thing

My POV also. The examples you gave of a so-called common sense christian would seem more like humanism with a sprinkling of christianity and/or deism. Bible based christianity does not lend itself to tolerance, humanism, or diversity of thinking.

 

Let's see if God or I get to speak this time. I had this nearly ready to submit when the thunder cracked and the lightening flashed and the house went dark. I knew we had a bit of a storm out there but I didn't know it was that bad. Thunder and lightening did not happen at the exact same instant the way they say it has to when it's close enough to hit you. The power was off for about five minutes and it took me twice that long to figure out on which thread I had been posting. The first thing that zipped through my brain when the power went off was GET AWAY FROM THAT COMPUTER!

 

Okay here goes. A bit of history.

 

There was such a thing as Common Sense Philosophy sometime since the Enlightenment. The Enlightenment was approximately second half of 1700s. I don't remember the exact dates but Mark A. Noll, an American writing in 1992, talks about it in his book History of Christianity in the United States and Canada.

 

Christian theologians in North America used Scottish Common Sense (philosophy) to understand the Bible and to write theology. It was fading by the time Darwinism and biblical criticism hit North America (about 1870) after the American Civil War. But the conservative Christians, who later became the fundamentalists, hung onto it.

 

Thus, there was such a thing as Common Sense Christianity--but it was the conservatives, not the liberals, who held onto it. What is presented in this thread as the Common Sense Christian is so cutting-edge new/liberal that it has not yet been fully accepted into Christianity.

 

This raises the question: Exactly what constitutes Christianity? What people in this thread insist is Christianity is not Christianity--it is fundamentalism. Fundamentalism does not equal Christianity--it is a way of thinking about Christianity. A majority portion of American Christians may think that way about their religion but that does not make it Christianity per se.

 

Someone suggested fundamentalism has always been around. That is historically inaccurate. The split between liberal and conservative Christianity happened late 1800s, early 1900s. A favourite date is 1925 because that was the year of the Scopes Monkey Trial. At the so-called Scopes Monkey Trial, teacher John Scopes was tried for teaching evolution. Charles Hodge of Princeton Seminary, however, had already been publishing his fundamentalist theology (3-volume set called Systematic Theology) in the early 1870s. This means things were happening long before the Scopes Monkey Trial.

 

Charles Hodge used Common Sense Philosophy for his major writing but the schools that wanted to use science to understand the Bible no longer used it. Thus, what is in this opening post called the Common Sense Christian is very liberal Christianity and has been around for perhaps a few decades. I can't put a date on it.

[R. S. Martin]

One of my biggest gripes as a christian is that when I go to church, sadly, I find so many people that are for lack of a better phrase "weak willed" just sitting there.

 

********************

I dont have a bible on hand or I would point out the places where jesus told people to think for themselves

 

All I can say is lucky you for getting born into a church where you are allowed to think if you so choose. If you read my earlier post in this thread (the one right above this one if no one else posts in the mean time) you can see what I learned from the history books about common sense and Christianity. You are using an old term to describe something very new. As some of the other posts in this thread testify, it is so new that it has barely been accepted as Christianty yet. I would guess you were born sometime in the last twenty years? (No obligation to answer this.)

 

Would you be so kind as to at least quote what you think Jesus said that says to think? I ask because most of us were severely punished if we dared to think. That includes me. The fundamentalists, whom you call fanatics, will quote the Bible left and right to prove that we should not think, that we should believe and just do what we are told. I come from a culture that takes it so far as to forbid education beyond Grade 8 or age 14, whichever comes first.

 

I was in my forties when I finally dared break the rules and went back to school. Early September last year I finally concluded that I don't believe in God. That caused such a very serious problem for my family that they were going to forbid me to eat with them at my own mother's funeral a few weeks ago. I still have formal membership at a church I went to about eight years ago. Because of this they let me eat with them. But I found out since then that they had very serious second thoughts as to whether this was right.

 

My background is horse and buggy Mennonite which is very similar to the Amish. There are major communities throughout North America (Canada, United States, and Mexico) that have very strict rules about who Christians can eat with. This is based on a passage in Corinthians where it tells what to do with sinners.

 

Ironically, some of these communities will not eat with the other communities, esp. at a formal church meal like at a funeral or wedding. Some of the strictest will forbid attending a parent's funeral if it is not in their own church. When my uncle passed away, his son and family attended the burial service at the graveside but not the regular funeral service in the church. They were horse and buggy Mennonite like both their parents but of a different group. They had left the parents' church a few years earlier for a stricter church.

 

These church's don't like when people think and ask questions. I didn't know that and I was like you--always asking questions. They kept telling me that we don't have to understand everything. I believed, though, that we should be allowed to make sense of this religion God said we had to obey. This was what kept me asking my most urgent questions regardless of how severely I got punished for it.

 

They never said they were punishing me for asking questions but nobody ever treated me like a human with any rights of my own. I am 50 and I am finally learning what it is like being treated as a human being. Not by my family but by people in mainstream society. Jesus said to use our talents so if I had the talent to think, surely I was expected to use it. I could not think things through like this until after I had been away from them for some years.

[Toxic]

I also tried taking up liberal christianity. It was this decision that caused me to loose my faith altogether.