Troy...

[crazy-tiger]

For those of you unlucky enough to know who Troy is, he's the one who came up with what he calls The 4-step Perfect Proof for God

 

Be warned... visiting that link will lead you to a place where circular logic, stupidity and sheer ignorance rule supreme.

 

 

However... it's not that which has made me go slightly insane this last week. No, this time it's been the almost surreal "explanations" that Troy has come out with to defend his proof.

 

Things like "God caused everything, but didn't cause sin" or "Divorce is always a sin... except when it's not" and the ultimate in senseless garbage "There are two kinds of everything. There is everything and then there is everything God created to a point which is deemed as everything."

 

 

They've been playing with him for days now, and he's still going strong, deluding himself into thinking he's unbeatable...

http://www.fstdt.com/comments.asp?id=22276

[NotBlinded]

Once-saved-always-saved is to say that once you are born-again you have eternal life and it is eternal, that is, it can never be lost. You can't lose God's life if you are saved. Nowhere does the Bible say you can lose salvation. Salvation is given with God's infinite foreknowledge. God does not make a mistake in whom to give His life to. It sticks forever! If you feel you walked away from the faith, just realize you were never born-again to begin with. You can still be saved.

 

Did he really just say that?

 

How can you still be saved if salvation is foreknowledge? So, let me get this straight.

 

If you walked away, you were never saved.

 

You can still be saved unless you walk away after that in which case, you were never saved that time either.

 

You are only really saved if you never walk away, unless of course, you weren't a chosen one to begin with then you can never be saved even if you don't walk away.

 

But, if you were really saved and a chosen one, if you walk away, you never really walked away because you were really saved and a chosen one. You were never a real un-born again walk-away.

 

So where is the choice we have to be saved?

 

This person is beyond help.

[Astreja]

*shudders* I've had the displeasure of being in a forum thread with that sorry waste of space. His favourite debate technique appears to be argumentum ad lalalaIcanthearyou.

 

To any gods, daemons and other interested supernatural parties reading this thread: Could you please see to it that Mr. Brooks and/or his church and/or his followers lose $10,000 CDN of net worth for each and every person who has successfully trashed his silly "proof"? Thanks.

[LosingMyReligion]

What I never got about the whole "Saved" thing even when I was "saved(or am I still saved?)" was...

 

1.) "Once you are saved you are always saved..."

 

2.) "You were never saved to begin with if you walk away..."

 

Okay, which is it? My big problem is that if God has predestined certain people to be "saved" then everyone who gets "saved" is "saved" according to that logic. Ergo, we are all still "saved."

Or in the case of "never saved to begin with" then what was the point of even accepting Jebus into our lives?

 

Of course everything is the fault of man not God...So he gets a free pass out of these insane contradictions...

 

Well, whatever. My head hurts.

[NotBlinded]

And...why the hell does he keep saying that Jesus said he was God? He never once said that.

 

Oh...nevermind, he is a complete moron.

[quicksand]

Since God is the only perfect being by Christian reckoning, one would therefor have to conclude that Troy must be God since he is the one offering this "Perfect Four Point Proof for God's Existance."

 

 

 

I've tarred him with this point once. I was ignored of course. Troy is quite delusional oh and if you want get his dander, tell him that Jesus lied. Don't answer him how or why. Just keep saying it.

[Thurisaz]

*shudders* I've had the displeasure of being in a forum thread with that sorry waste of space. His favourite debate technique appears to be argumentum ad lalalaIcanthearyou

 

[Thurisaz]

Does anyone remember how some time ago someone of us dug out the link to the fuckface's "forums"? That's idiocy cubed... all "threads" in there consist of exactly one posting by the moron himself, and occasionally by a single reply from some other person... who then gets banned immediately, followed by a "ha ha!" reply by fuckface.

 

<-- troy

[HuaiDan]

When I saw this thread I thought it was some new exciting info on the ancient civilization, not about some headcase trying to prove the existence of god. I just don't get it. Does Troy really believe he has a firm grasp of logic, or is he knowingly trying to swindle people, or is he completely psycho? Some of the stuff I read really sounded like the demented ravings of a madman. That's not an ad hominem, that's a serious observation.

[Parture]

Once-saved-always-saved is to say that once you are born-again you have eternal life and it is eternal, that is, it can never be lost. You can't lose God's life if you are saved. Nowhere does the Bible say you can lose salvation. Salvation is given with God's infinite foreknowledge. God does not make a mistake in whom to give His life to. It sticks forever! If you feel you walked away from the faith, just realize you were never born-again to begin with. You can still be saved.

 

Did he really just say that?

 

How can you still be saved if salvation is foreknowledge? So, let me get this straight.

 

If you walked away, you were never saved.

 

You can still be saved unless you walk away after that in which case, you were never saved that time either.

 

You are only really saved if you never walk away, unless of course, you weren't a chosen one to begin with then you can never be saved even if you don't walk away.

 

But, if you were really saved and a chosen one, if you walk away, you never really walked away because you were really saved and a chosen one. You were never a real un-born again walk-away.

 

So where is the choice we have to be saved?

 

This person is beyond help.

Salvation is salvation. God's foreknowledge is His foreknowledge. Since He has infinite foreknowledge and He is always right, when He gives salvation, that is, eternal life, it is eternal, forever! It can't be lost.

 

"You can still be saved unless you walk away"-If you walked away it showed you were never saved to begin with (you only thought you were), so it is not "unless," but "if".

 

"you weren't a chosen one to begin with then you can never be saved even if you don't walk away"-Anyone can be chosen, for salvation is offered to everyone. You only know you are "chosen" before the foundations of the world, once you enter into new birth, and look back upon that experience to know you were chosen. You could not truly know this beforehand.

 

"if you were really saved and a chosen one, if you walk away, you never really walked away because you were really saved and a chosen one. You were never a real un-born again walk-away."-Yes, the walking away was not really walking away. Be careful here, because the person would not be recanting faith in Christ, but is getting caught up in worldly affairs is all. He will lose rewards of reigning with Christ in the millennium. There is a difference between a carnal and a spiritual Christian. Rev. 20.4 shows us spiritual Christians, but not all Christians, though having eternal life, are going to be rewarded in the 1000 years. This is consequences for Christians.

 

"So where is the choice we have to be saved?"-In being made in God's image. The choice to believe to be truly saved is an eternal choice. It is not a choice to say you believe with the option to unbelieve, but it is a choice to believer forever which God foreknows by His infinite foreknowledge if you have authentically made that kind of choice.

 

You can yet still authentically choose the cross because nobody has blasphemed the Holy Spirit in this day and age. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit was only possible when Christ was walking among people on earth and several other conditions were required in order to prevent yourself from further opportunity from being saved while still in the body of flesh and blood.

[Parture]

*shudders* I've had the displeasure of being in a forum thread with that sorry waste of space. His favourite debate technique appears to be argumentum ad lalalaIcanthearyou.

 

To any gods, daemons and other interested supernatural parties reading this thread: Could you please see to it that Mr. Brooks and/or his church and/or his followers lose $10,000 CDN of net worth for each and every person who has successfully trashed his silly "proof"? Thanks.

You are misunderstanding what predestined means. It does not mean there is no first regard for your choice, for God predestinates by foreknowing your free-choice: a conditional election, unlimited atonement, resistible grace, for preservation of the saints.

 

Think of the word predestined not in the way calvinists think like robots preprogrammed to choose, for that is not real choice, but in terms of a "declaration". God predestines or declares something to be because of His infinite foreknowledge that it will happen. He has infinite foreknowledge to know what your free-choice will be.

 

This is called osas arminian or monergism-synergism (God saves-condition needed).

[Parture]

Did you miss me?

 

Here we have the 4 Step Proof for God of the Bible. If you can't isolate anything wrong with it, it proves God of the Bible.

 

Step 1 - There is an exponential progression in our conscience these past 6000 years, so that it won't take much longer to reach sinlessness in the saved. That being the case obviously there would not have been an eternity of the past of cause and effects. Therefore, the only possibility is the uncreated created.

 

Step 2 - Since nothing in nature happens all by itself and always has a cause, then nature could not have caused itself. Thus, the uncreated created.

 

Step 3 - Don't argue against some god for we are talking about God of the Bible. Just stay on topic.

 

Step 4 - There can not be gods creating gods or supernatural events causing supernatural events in the eternity of the past, because they do not cause themselves. Therefore, the uncreated created.

 

If you can't find anything wrong with the Proof then accept that it is true. Realize the proven fact that you were created by the uncreated. Can you do that?

[HuaiDan]

Let me prepare the popcorn. I'm gonna watch me an ass-whoopin'!

 

Step 2 - Since nothing in nature happens all by itself and always has a cause, then nature could not have caused itself. Thus, the uncreated created.

 

Allow me to handle this one. I just woke up, and in my morning fog, with one hand tied behind my back, I still find myself quite capable of dealing with it.

 

 

Since nothing in nature happens all by itself, how did the uncreated happen? You said NOTHING in nature. Zilch. Zippo. So either the uncreated exists in nature (which I'm going to assume means 'the physical universe), which by your very statement it does not because everything in nature has a cause, or it does not.

Since you have adroitly demonstrated the uncreated does not exist within the physical universe, please further demonstrate the correlation (you want to show cause and effect here) between something which does not exist in nature (the physical universe) and everything else which does.

[quicksand]

Did you miss me?

 

Here we have the 4 Step Proof for God of the Bible. If you can't isolate anything wrong with it, it proves God of the Bible.

 

Step 1 - There is an exponential progression in our conscience these past 6000 years, so that it won't take much longer to reach sinlessness in the saved. That being the case obviously there would not have been an eternity of the past of cause and effects. Therefore, the only possibility is the uncreated created.

 

Step 2 - Since nothing in nature happens all by itself and always has a cause, then nature could not have caused itself. Thus, the uncreated created.

 

Step 3 - Don't argue against some god for we are talking about God of the Bible. Just stay on topic.

 

Step 4 - There can not be gods creating gods or supernatural events causing supernatural events in the eternity of the past, because they do not cause themselves. Therefore, the uncreated created.

 

If you can't find anything wrong with the Proof then accept that it is true. Realize the proven fact that you were created by the uncreated. Can you do that?

Hey dickhead only GOD is perfect. So if you are not GOD then your 4-Part bluster is nothing but a mouse fart in a torando.

 

OH AND JESUS LIED!!!

[quicksand]

Salvation is salvation.

Hitler was a Christian.

 

'Nuff said.

 

 

OH AND JESUS LIED!!!!!!!!

[Parture]

Did you miss me?

 

Here we have the 4 Step Proof for God of the Bible. If you can't isolate anything wrong with it, it proves God of the Bible.

 

Step 1 - There is an exponential progression in our conscience these past 6000 years, so that it won't take much longer to reach sinlessness in the saved. That being the case obviously there would not have been an eternity of the past of cause and effects. Therefore, the only possibility is the uncreated created.

 

Step 2 - Since nothing in nature happens all by itself and always has a cause, then nature could not have caused itself. Thus, the uncreated created.

 

Step 3 - Don't argue against some god for we are talking about God of the Bible. Just stay on topic.

 

Step 4 - There can not be gods creating gods or supernatural events causing supernatural events in the eternity of the past, because they do not cause themselves. Therefore, the uncreated created.

 

If you can't find anything wrong with the Proof then accept that it is true. Realize the proven fact that you were created by the uncreated. Can you do that?

Hey dickhead only GOD is perfect. So if you are not GOD then your 4-Part bluster is nothing but a mouse fart in a torando.

 

OH AND JESUS LIED!!!

 

God gives this proof, I am just the messenger as are all Christians.

[Parture]

Salvation is salvation.

Hitler was a Christian.

 

'Nuff said.

 

 

OH AND JESUS LIED!!!!!!!!

 

Jesus is not a murderer like Hitler, so Hitler was not a Christian.

 

Since you can't show how Jesus lied, and the documentation and multiple testimony found He told no lie, then you lose because your evidenced is trumped by the evidence of the Proof for God and the 66 books of God's Word.

[Parture]

Let me prepare the popcorn. I'm gonna watch me an ass-whoopin'!

 

Step 2 - Since nothing in nature happens all by itself and always has a cause, then nature could not have caused itself. Thus, the uncreated created.

 

Allow me to handle this one. I just woke up, and in my morning fog, with one hand tied behind my back, I still find myself quite capable of dealing with it.

 

 

Since nothing in nature happens all by itself, how did the uncreated happen? You said NOTHING in nature. Zilch. Zippo. So either the uncreated exists in nature (which I'm going to assume means 'the physical universe), which by your very statement it does not because everything in nature has a cause, or it does not.

Since you have adroitly demonstrated the uncreated does not exist within the physical universe, please further demonstrate the correlation (you want to show cause and effect here) between something which does not exist in nature (the physical universe) and everything else which does.

Because the uncreated created since nature can't cause itself, then God is supernatural and not nature.

[Astreja]

Step 1 - There is an exponential progression in our conscience these past 6000 years, so that it won't take much longer to reach sinlessness in the saved.

Baseless assertion. You have to demonstrate, through non-Biblical means, that our "conscience" is progressing at all.

 

Then you have to demonstrate that the state of "sinlessness" is actually possible. Given the Christian tendency to see evil under every rock and blade of grass, I fear you're fighting a losing battle here.

 

Then, you have to correctly identify who are "saved" and who are not. Unless you claim to be Yahweh or Jesus or the Holy Spirit, I see no way of you doing this with any accuracy.

 

Therefore, the only possibility is the uncreated created.

False dichotomy, and non sequitur. Your conclusion here has nothing to do with the premises you started with.

 

Furthermore, where did your wonderful "uncreated" come from? If it's capable of always existing... So are other things.

 

Step 2 - Since nothing in nature happens all by itself and always has a cause, then nature could not have caused itself. Thus, the uncreated created.

Read a good book on quantum physics. There is indeed such a thing as an "uncaused" event, and you are in error here.

 

While you're at it, read The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins. The first self-replicating molecules came from very simple, essentially random combinations of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen. Only the combinations that successfully replicated went on to aggregate into "life" as we now know it.

 

Step 3 - Don't argue against some god for we are talking about God of the Bible. Just stay on topic.

So far I see nothing that uniquely identifies the god of the Bible, as opposed to other hypothetical superbeings.

 

Step 4 - There can not be gods creating gods or supernatural events causing supernatural events in the eternity of the past, because they do not cause themselves. Therefore, the uncreated created.

This is just a variation on "Step 1" and has no basis in verifiable fact. You are not in any position to demonstrate causality in the "eternity of the past", unless of course you're claiming to be Yahweh or Jesus or the Holy Spirit.

 

If you can't find anything wrong with the Proof then accept that it is true. Realize the proven fact that you were created by the uncreated. Can you do that?

What a pile of scheisse you have here. When does the "proof" part start? All you've done is chase your tail and hump your Bible.

[Ouroboros]

Since you can't show how Jesus lied, and the documentation and multiple testimony found He told no lie, then you lose because your evidenced is trumped by the evidence of the Proof for God and the 66 books of God's Word.

Troy, Jesus did lie.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Troy...

 

Your continual "Posting Whole Quotes" and stealing my Bosses webspace is having you teeter on the bitter edge of net board suicide.

 

Pray to your god I have a major medical problem before my fat thumb hits daFatman's Big Forkin' Red Button of Doom on your space and time here..

 

kFL

 

 

[HuaiDan]

Are Christians delusional?

 

 

 

[Astreja]

Are Christians delusional?

Step 1: Troy believes that an old book, largely plagiarized from Akkadian, Ugaritic and possibly Buddhist and Vedic sources, is undeniable proof of some invisible being that likes to burn people who refuse to kiss its nonexistent ass.

 

Step 2: Troy believes that he's got a "perfect proof" despite the fact that he shows no evidence of knowing fuck-all about biology, physics, or logical fallacies.

 

Step 3: Troy thinks that he's got a free pass into some mythical eternal life and Reeeally, Truly Believes that people want to *share* that afterlife with the likes of him.

 

Step 4: Troy is apparently oblivious to the fact that he and his proof are just a bad joke.

 

Oh, and Troy: My pronouncement against you and your followers stands. It would be nice if ($10,000 x number of successful disproofs) eventually finds its way into the pockets of the dedicated men and women who have taken five or ten minutes to shoot down your silly 'proof'. But I'll be happy to see you just plain lose the money.

[Thurisaz]

Salvation is salvation. God's foreknowledge is His foreknowledge.

 

And you are still a moron. Case closed.

[Thurisaz]

I am just the messenger as are all Christians.

 

Wrong morontheist. Most christians realize that if they act like braindead zombies they won't have much of a chance to get any respect.

 

Let me say this again, in a way that even you can understand:

 

you = ugh ugh I'm right whatever you say = we "Idiot"

most christians = try and follow golden rule = we (possibly) "well, it least she practices what she preaches, for what it's worth"

 

you understand what I say, eh, ugh ugh?