How Is This Three Days?

[currentchristian]

I note my 'faith in WHAT?' has received no attention at all! Not that I expected an answer that would mean anything to the sane...

 

You led me into temptation!!

 

For me, it's faith in "that which is somehow behind it all." I don't see this "entity" or "force" or hear from it each morning whispering sweet-somethings in my ear, but ... it's there and it will set everything right.

 

Please, know I'm not evangelizing. No way! Just answering the question, albeit imperfectly and weakly.

 

-CC

[Grandpa Harley]

'Right' by who's standards?

[mwc]

But if we remove all the idols, we too cease to exit. All that is ceases to be. Darkness and void descend and all is silent.

This tries to muddy the waters. Idols have been removed from cultures in the past (even in the bible the "prophets" railed against idols demanding their removal...the people did not cease to exist but most certainly the "god" that was the idol did...only through the work of scholars do those "gods" once again "live" in our current times...although arguably not in the same manner they "lived" in their previous incarnations).

 

I don't disagree that some seem to worship the Bible or make of the Bible a god. It is important, as I see, it to always separate the "God" from the "Bible." God transcends the Bible and in fact is barely revealed at all in the book. But the book does point to God. And, in my view, it gives us a decent portrait of the time God in Christ visited the "laboratory." Just my view.

As nature "points" to "god" or the "gods" to the pagan(s) (of whatever flavor). The "worship" of the book or the "worship" of nature may be argued in much the same way. These items "point" to their version of "god" and are therefore "holy." It may be argued that the "outsider" is the one confusing the two (the "god(s)" and the "symbol" pointing to the "god(s)"). This is, in fact, true when one looks at many pagan beliefs. The "sun" god merely represented the all-powerful deity that they couldn't put into words effectively. The sun was a good way to get this point across and so it was used in lieu of some lengthy awkward attempt (and it was nice and concise for the rituals and the "common" man to have access to as well). But, to the "outsider" they worshiped the sun. Perhaps even over time, to those in their own group, they worshiped the sun? This is hard to say.

 

The written testimony is held to be a higher value for no reason other than it is written. The carvings and the other "tradition" are held in low esteem and yet, those same pagan things (ie. nature) are also used to "point" to the "written" god as well. The fact that it is "written" trumps everyone and everything else even when the "secondary" evidences are identical to everyone else's. The written word is the "god." Without it you're left to "worship" the same "god(s)" the pagans do (nature).

 

Just as you mention at the end of your quote: "Christ." No book. No "Christ." Let's say that in 350CE Constantine changed his mind and said "Screw all religions." And burned them all. Not only that but he did such a thorough job that his searched all the caves and holes and got the "hidden" scrolls that we've only recently rediscovered. He went to India, China and the America's too (just everywhere). He was thorough. He destroyed anything that remotely looked like a religion, anyone associated with it and then oppressed the knowledge of all this for quite some time to come (to smooth the edges a bit). Now what? Where's "Christ?" Would he come back so that the books would be re-written since zero copies exist? No. He'd be forgotten. All for naught (if he did anything at all). The book was, and is, vital to the religion. It's not just a "glimpse" of jesus, but it IS 100% the sum total of all things jesus. We might, maybe, possibly, look at non-canonical books, but really the NT IS jesus. No NT means NO Jesus. You cannot "glimpse" jesus in a tree. You cannot "glimpse" him in the stars. (Never mind the occasional cheese sandwich ). He exists in one place and one place only. To worship the book is to worship jesus. They are forever entwined.

 

mwc

[currentchristian]

'Right' by who's standards?

 

By ITS standards....The owner of the vineyard has a right to determine what is right for the vineyard.

 

-CC

[currentchristian]

...

Just as you mention at the end of your quote: "Christ." No book. No "Christ." Let's say that in 350CE Constantine changed his mind and said "Screw all religions." And burned them all. Not only that but he did such a thorough job that his searched all the caves and holes and got the "hidden" scrolls that we've only recently rediscovered. He went to India, China and the America's too (just everywhere). He was thorough. He destroyed anything that remotely looked like a religion, anyone associated with it and then oppressed the knowledge of all this for quite some time to come (to smooth the edges a bit). Now what? Where's "Christ?" Would he come back so that the books would be re-written since zero copies exist? No. He'd be forgotten. All for naught (if he did anything at all). The book was, and is, vital to the religion. It's not just a "glimpse" of jesus, but it IS 100% the sum total of all things jesus. We might, maybe, possibly, look at non-canonical books, but really the NT IS jesus. No NT means NO Jesus. You cannot "glimpse" jesus in a tree. You cannot "glimpse" him in the stars. (Never mind the occasional cheese sandwich ). He exists in one place and one place only. To worship the book is to worship jesus. They are forever entwined.

 

mwc

 

Powerfully and compellingly stated.

 

Your hypothetical, had it become reality, would have resulted in just what you propose. If all traces of religion existing in 350 CE had been wiped out and all adherents obliterated, those religions would not exist today. Others would, of course, as religion is like food or water or shelter or sex -- necessary for survival (seems to me).

 

If all had been wiped out that would not, however, have altered the facts of the Jesus event. The Jesus event would still be true. Just no one would know about it.

 

As far as we know perhaps there have been several "Jesus events" and we only know of one of them? As far as we know, this current humankind story might be the tenth or the hundredth to have been on this planet or on other planets. We know very little, really, that's why I say that the Bible gives but a glimpse of who/what/how/why God is.

 

-CC

[Grandpa Harley]

'Right' by who's standards?

 

By ITS standards....The owner of the vineyard has a right to determine what is right for the vineyard.

 

-CC

See my reply on the other thread... Pig wind to justify your God is a hypocrite...

[Grandpa Harley]

Powerfully and compellingly stated.

 

Your hypothetical, had it become reality, would have resulted in just what you propose. If all traces of religion existing in 350 CE had been wiped out and all adherents obliterated, those religions would not exist today. Others would, of course, as religion is like food or water or shelter or sex -- necessary for survival (seems to me).

 

If all had been wiped out that would not, however, have altered the facts of the Jesus event. The Jesus event would still be true. Just no one would know about it.

 

As far as we know perhaps there have been several "Jesus events" and we only know of one of them? As far as we know, this current humankind story might be the tenth or the hundredth to have been on this planet or on other planets. We know very little, really, that's why I say that the Bible gives but a glimpse of who/what/how/why God is.

 

-CC

That is a hindu view... but it still doens't make it true... simply what you hope to be correct.

[mwc]

If all had been wiped out that would not, however, have altered the facts of the Jesus event. The Jesus event would still be true. Just no one would know about it.

 

As far as we know perhaps there have been several "Jesus events" and we only know of one of them? As far as we know, this current humankind story might be the tenth or the hundredth to have been on this planet or on other planets. We know very little, really, that's why I say that the Bible gives but a glimpse of who/what/how/why God is.

Perhaps. But this avoids the reason I went on as I did. Why do people "worship" the bible? My answer(s) are basically without the bible people would be reduced to (1) worshiping "god" in nature (paganism) and (2) not knowing of "jesus" at all.

 

Unlike the bold statement of "We hold these truths to be self-evident..." the religion contained in the bible would simply cease to exist. Its "truths" are not self-evident. (And arguing whether or not the truths contained in any other documents are "self-evident" without same supporting documents would be beside the point.) If "god," any "god," is something to be "glimpsed" then surely if we destroyed one book it would be simply disappear from view? But "jesus" does and his "god" does as well. It returns to a state of the "elders" roots back to the Canaanite pagan gods. Gods of nature (for the most part...just the 21st century version).

 

So with such a tenuous hold on "existing" versus not, is it any wonder people grab hold of that book with both hands and hang on for dear life? Their "god" can disappear in the "blink of an eye" and without it a person can only repeat to themselves that their "god" exists "out there, somewhere" so many times when the evidence, isn't so "self-evident."

 

mwc

[NotBlinded]

As nature "points" to "god" or the "gods" to the pagan(s) (of whatever flavor). The "worship" of the book or the "worship" of nature may be argued in much the same way. These items "point" to their version of "god" and are therefore "holy." It may be argued that the "outsider" is the one confusing the two (the "god(s)" and the "symbol" pointing to the "god(s)"). This is, in fact, true when one looks at many pagan beliefs. The "sun" god merely represented the all-powerful deity that they couldn't put into words effectively. The sun was a good way to get this point across and so it was used in lieu of some lengthy awkward attempt (and it was nice and concise for the rituals and the "common" man to have access to as well). But, to the "outsider" they worshiped the sun. Perhaps even over time, to those in their own group, they worshiped the sun? This is hard to say.

 

The written testimony is held to be a higher value for no reason other than it is written. The carvings and the other "tradition" are held in low esteem and yet, those same pagan things (ie. nature) are also used to "point" to the "written" god as well. The fact that it is "written" trumps everyone and everything else even when the "secondary" evidences are identical to everyone else's. The written word is the "god." Without it you're left to "worship" the same "god(s)" the pagans do (nature).

 

Just as you mention at the end of your quote: "Christ." No book. No "Christ." Let's say that in 350CE Constantine changed his mind and said "Screw all religions." And burned them all. Not only that but he did such a thorough job that his searched all the caves and holes and got the "hidden" scrolls that we've only recently rediscovered. He went to India, China and the America's too (just everywhere). He was thorough. He destroyed anything that remotely looked like a religion, anyone associated with it and then oppressed the knowledge of all this for quite some time to come (to smooth the edges a bit). Now what? Where's "Christ?" Would he come back so that the books would be re-written since zero copies exist? No. He'd be forgotten. All for naught (if he did anything at all). The book was, and is, vital to the religion. It's not just a "glimpse" of jesus, but it IS 100% the sum total of all things jesus. We might, maybe, possibly, look at non-canonical books, but really the NT IS jesus. No NT means NO Jesus. You cannot "glimpse" jesus in a tree. You cannot "glimpse" him in the stars. (Never mind the occasional cheese sandwich ). He exists in one place and one place only. To worship the book is to worship jesus. They are forever entwined.

 

mwc

Ohhh...that was good mwc. Don't let it scare you that I agree with you!

 

If the religion was gone, other symbols would replace it or continue with the same. The Christ is just another metaphor.

 

I so agree that the symbols should never be worshipped. But like you said, "The sun was a good way to get this point across and so it was used in lieu of some lengthy awkward attempt (and it was nice and concise for the rituals and the "common" man to have access to as well). But, to the "outsider" they worshiped the sun. Perhaps even over time, to those in their own group, they worshiped the sun? This is hard to say."

 

This has happened in every religion...what the myth is trying to say lays beyond attempts to explain it. When these undertones of understanding are missed, the symbol becomes the object of worship.

 

mwc, is that really you?

 

You know, it really shouldn't matter to Christians if they ever looked at a bible again. If they understand the message, and can feel the presence of "God" in their lives, the book is no longer needed. It is just one way to experience the ultimate mystery that we call "God", unless of course one takes the story of God to actually be God.

[NotBlinded]

Powerfully and compellingly stated.

 

Your hypothetical, had it become reality, would have resulted in just what you propose. If all traces of religion existing in 350 CE had been wiped out and all adherents obliterated, those religions would not exist today. Others would, of course, as religion is like food or water or shelter or sex -- necessary for survival (seems to me).

 

If all had been wiped out that would not, however, have altered the facts of the Jesus event. The Jesus event would still be true. Just no one would know about it.

 

As far as we know perhaps there have been several "Jesus events" and we only know of one of them? As far as we know, this current humankind story might be the tenth or the hundredth to have been on this planet or on other planets. We know very little, really, that's why I say that the Bible gives but a glimpse of who/what/how/why God is.

 

-CC

And dang to you too CC. That is an awesome response. I believe there are many more events like that that happen quite frequently to people. Not the execution part, but the "knowing" or the experience of "God" through whatever means. There are books galore on the subject.

[Grandpa Harley]

You know, it really shouldn't matter to Christians if they ever looked at a bible again. If they understand the message, and can feel the presence of "God" in their lives, the book is no longer needed. It is just one way to experience the ultimate mystery that we call "God", unless of course one takes the story of God to actually be God.

 

It's about 'authority'... even the Emergent movement have this hang up... If they lost the bible they'd have nothing to say.

[Grandpa Harley]

Grandpa Harley,

 

notblindedbytheblight has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "How Is This Three Days?".

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE(Grandpa Harley @ Apr 13 2007, 06:26 AM) 270007[/snapback]That is a hindu view... but it still doens't make it true... simply what you hope to be correct.

-----------------------------

 

 

 

The human experience of it is true whether what is attributed to be the cause of that experince is true or not.

 

 

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Mysterious... this landed in my inbox but no sign of the post...

 

To reply... Is that actually a sentence?

 

Yes it is... so you're saying that we're good at lying to ourselves?

[Grandpa Harley]

Addendum... what you're describing is more or less the ravings of a junkie... it's true to them, but they're so stoned they don't realise that it's all a bad trip...

[NotBlinded]

Grandpa Harley,

 

notblindedbytheblight has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "How Is This Three Days?".

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE(Grandpa Harley @ Apr 13 2007, 06:26 AM) 270007[/snapback]That is a hindu view... but it still doens't make it true... simply what you hope to be correct.

-----------------------------

 

 

 

The human experience of it is true whether what is attributed to be the cause of that experince is true or not.

 

 

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Mysterious... this landed in my inbox but no sign of the post...

 

To reply... Is that actually a sentence?

 

Yes it is... so you're saying that we're good at lying to ourselves?

Yeah...I deleted it. I thought I was giving you enough of a hard time but since you have it, I'll try to put my measly IQ to work.

 

I'm saying there are different truths unless you prescribe to an Absolute Truth™. Since it is not known, that I know of, that there is a great truth that exists in regards to God, then how can one be lying to themselves? I am talking about the difference between emotional truth and object truth.

[Grandpa Harley]

Grandpa Harley,

 

notblindedbytheblight has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "How Is This Three Days?".

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE(Grandpa Harley @ Apr 13 2007, 06:26 AM) 270007[/snapback]That is a hindu view... but it still doens't make it true... simply what you hope to be correct.

-----------------------------

 

 

 

The human experience of it is true whether what is attributed to be the cause of that experince is true or not.

 

 

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Mysterious... this landed in my inbox but no sign of the post...

 

To reply... Is that actually a sentence?

 

Yes it is... so you're saying that we're good at lying to ourselves?

Yeah...I deleted it. I thought I was giving you enough of a hard time but since you have it, I'll try to put my measly IQ to work.

 

I'm saying there are different truths unless you prescribe to an Absolute Truth. Since it is not known, that I know of, that there is a great truth that exists in regards to God, then how can one be lying to themselves? I am talking about the difference between emotional truth and object truth.

Insults don't equate to hard time, simply being irritating, and I am a past master of the 'I Know a Song That'll Get On Yer Nerves' song.. so a shit slinging exchange is barely worth engaging anything other than sarcasm for...

 

I have no problems with 'subjective' truths... Thing's like Sharon Stone being shaggable, or Barry Manilow's talent... wholly subjective. but other truths... untrustworthy at best. Ask three people who say they've seen the 'truth', and you'll get four conflicting answers, and none of the need reflect anything that actually happened. Thus, spreading one's own mental constructs as 'true' is both narcissistic and dangerous. Ask every people our culture has come into contact with just how good the Christ meme is... assuming there are any of them left.

[NotBlinded]

Insults don't equate to hard time, simply being irritating, and I am a past master of the 'I Know a Song That'll Get On Yer Nerves' song.. so a shit slinging exchange is barely worth engaging anything other than sarcasm for...

 

I have no problems with 'subjective' truths... Thing's like Sharon Stone being shaggable, or Barry Manilow's talent... wholly subjective. but other truths... untrustworthy at best. Ask three people who say they've seen the 'truth', and you'll get four conflicting answers, and none of the need reflect anything that actually happened. Thus, spreading one's own mental constructs as 'true' is both narcissistic and dangerous. Ask every people our culture has come into contact with just how good the Christ meme is... assuming there are any of them left.

I agree 100% that it is narcissictic and dangerous when those truths are claimed to be more than subjective.

 

I have a member of my family that will tell me that it's truth for her. I also have a member that will tell me that it is the only truth (Christianity). I can tell you now though that I don't think that she really thinks I'm going to hell or she would be miserable. She probably thinks her faith is enough for the non-believers in the family. It's all subjective...only some will admit it though.

 

Oh, by the way, the elephant is an ass.

[Grandpa Harley]

Thus, since there is little or no idea by anyone what the pointers are pointing to, it is all nonsense... some is more entertaining than other, but anything that has killed that many people, has destroyed that man lives and has slipt so many families as the myht of Christ, it's not glorious, it's pernicious...

[NotBlinded]

Thus, since there is little or no idea by anyone what the pointers are pointing to, it is all nonsense... some is more entertaining than other, but anything that has killed that many people, has destroyed that man lives and has slipt so many families as the myht of Christ, it's not glorious, it's pernicious...

Who has killed are the ones that think it is objective truth. I couldn't agree more that this has happened and will probably continue to happen as long as people continue thinking that way. Hell, even Jesus tried to warn people of this but obviously not many people understood him:

 

By now you have certainly forgotten the five loaves that fed the five thousand, with twelve baskets left over, and the seven loaves that fed the four thousand and the plenty that remained. But I am not speaking to you about earthly food. No, I have come to warn you against feeding on the ideas and false teachings of those who market in religion.

Even then he had to tell them that it wasn't earthly food he was talking about.

 

The fundamental Christians would kill him if he was speaking today.

 

You are not supposed to have any objective idea to what it is pointing to...that is the point. The minute you ascribe an idea to what the symbol is pointing to other than an inner meaning that is applicable to life, it becomes useless and dangerous. They are psychological truths. There was never a whale that actually swallowed Jonah. There may have been a person that was in misery for a time and came out of it with greater insight into life. The symbols point inward not outward.

[Grandpa Harley]

not exactly an accessible idea to a disease ridden peasant... in fact, it's something that would have sailed over the heads of the Fishermen, Tax collectors etc at the time. Most of the 'ideas' are simply bad since you'd not be able to communicate them in Aramaic. It's a 20th Century gloss... we're back to Rorschach ink blots...

[NotBlinded]

I do believe that most of what he meant went over people's head.

 

Why couldn't he communicate them in Aramic? Did they not use metaphor and allegory?

 

Here is a site that translated from the Aramic texts that, they claim, was preserved since the Apostolic Age.

 

11. "How is it you did not understand that it was not about the bread that I was talking to you, except that you should be careful of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees?"

12. Then they understood that he was not telling them to be careful of the leaven of the bread, but the knowledge of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.

[Grandpa Harley]

It's late, my face hurts. Go study the damned language and culture yourself. Dr. Neil Douglas-Klotz is a good strating point. come back to me when you've read at least some of his work.

[NotBlinded]

It's late, my face hurts. Go study the damned language and culture yourself. Dr. Neil Douglas-Klotz is a good strating point. come back to me when you've read at least some of his work.

That is what the hell I've been saying all along! Sheesh...where is it you stand anyway?

 

A review of The Hidden Gospel of Jesus:

 

"This book is a gift to all those wanting to enter into the spirit of the historical Jesus and the mystic Christ. By honoring the people of Jesus land and their poetic language, it brings a needed balance to the historical Jesus movement. It undoes rigid and dualistic translations of the Christian Scriptures and thereby awakens, challenges, and makes fresh the Good News that, after all these centuries, is still news."

--Matthew Fox, president of the University of Creation Spirituality in Oakland, California; co-chair of Naropa Oakland; and author of Original Blessing and The Coming of the Cosmic Christ

"Neil Douglas-Klotz's reinterpretations of well-known phrases are insightful, penetrating, and in some cases dazzling. This book will change the way many people read the New Testament."

--Leonard Shlain, M.D., author of The Alphabet versus the Goddess: The Conflict between Word and Image

 

link

 

I can't figure out what you think. One post you will tell me how much crap it is and then the next you will refer me to a mystic?

 

This book here: Prayers of the Cosmos: Meditations on the Aramaic Words of Jesus is on my wish list at Amazon already. Along with these:

 

Philosophy, Religious Studies, and Myth (Theories of Myth)

 

by Robert Segal (Author)

 

Psychology and Myth (Theories of Myth)

 

by Robert Segal (Author)

 

Son of Man: The Mystical Path to Christ

 

by Andrew Harvey (Author)

 

The Imitation of Christ (Mystics)

 

by a Kempis Thomas (Author), David Cochran Heath (Narrator)

 

Mystic Christianity

 

by Yogi Ramacharaka (Author)

 

 

The Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew

 

by Bart D. Ehrman (Author)

 

 

Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why

 

by Bart D. Ehrman (Author)

 

 

This isn't the only place I've found discrepancies between your posts...maybe you could explain just what the hell it is you think and clear up the discrepancies for me?

[Grandpa Harley]

Having the book the wish list doesn't mean much.

 

Here's mine

 

 

The Interpretation of the New Testament in Greco-Roman Paganism

by John Granger. Cook (Author)

 

Synthesis Remembered: Awakening Original Innocence

by Charles, L. Moore JD STB (Author)

 

 

White Gold

by Giles Milton (Author)

 

 

Toilets of the World

by Morna E. Gregory (Author), Sian James (Author)

 

 

The Early Church: Story of Emergent Christianity from the Apostolic Age to the Dividing of the Ways Between the Greek East and the Latin West v. 1 (Penguin History of the Church)

 

 

The God We Never Knew: Beyond Dogmatic Religion to a More Authentic Contemporary Faith

by Marcus J. Borg (Author)

 

 

Reading the Bible Again for the First Time: Taking the Bible Seriously But Not Literally

by M.J. Borg (Author)

 

 

Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time: The Historical Jesus and the Heart of Contemporary Faith

by Marcus J. Borg (Author)

 

Hitler's Priestess: Savitri Devi, the Hindu-Aryan Myth and Neo-Nazism

by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke (Author)

 

Black Sun: Aryan Cults, Esoteric Nazism, and the Politics of Identity

by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke (Author)

 

The Sufi mystic I pointed you at also happens to be an expert in 1st Century Aramaic and the culture of the the Palestine region of the time. In The Hidden Gospel you get a pretty good over view of what could and couldn't be communicated in the language. However, if you don't like me using mystics for their expertise, there's not much I can do. In fact, it's not my problem.

 

As to inconsistency. *shrug* Your problem not mine.

 

BTW I think you were referring to the Lamsa bible at one stage... I actually quite like the translation, since it contains the far more accurate (and Gnostic) "Eli, Eli, lemana shabakthani" in Matt 27... but that's me cherry picking.

[currentchristian]

...If they lost the bible they'd have nothing to say.

 

This is so. But also true is that if we lost all history books, we'd have nothing to say. We'd have only what we remember.

 

I bet, however, that we could reconstruct from memory much of our history and much of our Bible.

 

-CC

[mwc]

Ohhh...that was good mwc. Don't let it scare you that I agree with you!

We agree? Can I change my answer?

 

This has happened in every religion...what the myth is trying to say lays beyond attempts to explain it. When these undertones of understanding are missed, the symbol becomes the object of worship.

From many of the myths that I've read, the myth itself frequently contains the "key" to the understanding of the myth. This "key" can be overt and simply say what each thing means or more implied through the names of objects or their actions (the latter is harder to "unlock"). Without the "key" to unlock that understanding the casual observer is left to their own devices to make sense of what they are seeing/hearing/reading (whatever form the mythic ritual takes).

 

mwc, is that really you?

I don't know...

 

You know, it really shouldn't matter to Christians if they ever looked at a bible again. If they understand the message, and can feel the presence of "God" in their lives, the book is no longer needed. It is just one way to experience the ultimate mystery that we call "God", unless of course one takes the story of God to actually be God.

If the bible is read through some of the myths within it, in the NT for example, some of the parables, provide the "key" to unlocking them. In the OT some of the "prophecies" also contain a "key" as well. Then there are stories that parallel those very items (dated later) that have no "key" at all but the story is very much a parallel to that earlier item. It's strange that the "true" believers cannot see that someone wrote a myth surrounding that earlier concept and embedded the "key," not in overt words, but implied in the names/actions of the characters. Like a play. So that it could be acted out for everyone instead of something that "happened" in the temple where no one could see or understand. It was like an after the fact explanation of why the temple ritual existed.

 

Then "jesus" comes along and he's the all in one explanation of all the important rituals of the temple, but without the temple. Much of the "stuff" he "did" was added after the fact which muddies the waters but by and large he was simply a way to explain away the temple rituals sans the temple. He's a play that you can act out with your friends (and people do). Each portion of this play means something connected back to the Law (that was deemed important) and if you watched the play, without knowing the meanings, you would think that the xians were killing and eating this person at some point...among other horrible deeds. No wonder they were often accused of this over and over. I imagine this play happened many places (although there was no "Pilate" or specific names like that until much later..."Pilate" would have been a high priest anyhow in order for the story to work). Oh well...another thought for another day. I've already side-tracked myself once again.

 

mwc