It is NOT OK!

[webmdave]

A Catholic family discusses atheism.

 

http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2007/04/it-is-not-ok.html

[R. S. Martin]

I tried posting this on the Main Blog. After trying more than half a dozen times and it didn't work I decided to put it here.

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What is not okay is the way that woman is man-handling her adult son. That kind of yelling is NOT OK. Yanking him around physically like that is NOT OK. Pushing him away from her while poking her nose in his face and yelling in his face like that is NOT OKAY.

 

Wow! that young man has a LOT of guts. He knows his mother will be violently upset. Hitting her would have been justified except he might get himself arrested if he did so. Notice how he folds his arms close to his body? I think that is to ensure that he will not reflexively hit and get himself into trouble. Note also how his dad stolidly goes about his own business. He's not going to interfere with his mad wife at any cost. He won't defend the son and he won't support him. He just won't be involved. That's probably the best for the marriage and it may be how the son learned not to fight her when she's mad like that.

 

For those of you who do not tell your parents about your deconversion, I can see that self-preservation calls for not telling. Christianity is peaceful and loving? Yeah, when everything goes just the way a person would want it to go I am sure it's nice and peaceful and reassuring.

[Evolution_beyond]

Having a mother like that would be enough to convince anyone that there's no god.

 

And that threat about not getting anything for Christmas. It's not much of a threat is it? I've been wanting for years to be exempt from the whole Christmas nonsense. No more stressful Christmas shopping. No more stressful trying to figure out what to get people for Christmas. It doesn't matter that you won't get anything for Christmas because you can just get yourself something instead - and not have to spend money you don't have getting people things they don't want in exchange for getting things that you don't want. No Christmas would be bliss!

[Ouroboros]

SCARY!

 

It proves that faith is emotional based.

 

Since the husband doesn't say anything, I suspect he doesn't support her fully in her attacks. Maybe he silently have doubts too but doesn't dare challenging her.

[Former Follier]

That scenario looked eerily familiar. My mother responded in nearly the same way, only slightly more grief-stricken (she was nearly sucidal, my father later told me), while my father merely mournfully shook his head in disbelief and tried to reason with me. How absurd and disturbing that I chose to rid myself of the death-cult fables!

[godlessgrrl]

Having a mother like that would be enough to convince anyone that there's no god.

 

Funny you should say that... I did have a mother like that. And a father like that, too.

 

And whaddaya know, I'm a godless atheist. Go figure.

[Rhia]

It makes me sick. I almost wish I got that in comparison with what I had. My mom cried, fought with me, and then ignored me (except for when absolutely necessary) for almost a year.

 

It took a lot of guts to tell her, and I for one think the father should have stepped in- after all, according to her religion her husband is the head of the house, so maybe he should have taken her in hand so as not to cause more damage to that poor guy.

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

"You're going to get nothing, absolutely nothing for Christmas! Because that's what Christmas is all about!"

 

Uh...yeah.

 

 

Adult son? What adult? That kid is 16 tops. Probably younger. He just got confirmed! That's usually what...13? Kind of like the Catholic version of the Barmitzvah? I oughta know....I'm such a bad Catholic...

[WCrystal]

That's kind of how my mom acted when I stopped going to church.

 

That's insane.

[robbie]

Is this definitely for real? Because if so that's probably one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen in my life.

 

Oh, and it completely changes my mind about my relatively conciliatory attitude towards Catholicism, by reminding me of one important factor: the ignorant masses who cling to it and practise it in their own sick and twisted way.

 

And did I hear her right? "We need to start going to Mass every week...I can't."?!? Oh the fucking hypocrisy!!

[R. S. Martin]

Is this definitely for real?

 

Some families do scream at each other in exactly this tone of voice. It's so real and brings so many intense flash-backs for me I can hardly cope knowing this sort of yelling and screaming still exists in homes.

[Taphophilia]

Yeah, that's a kid. I think that dad is a pansy ass, who sits by as the mom runs the show. The mom sure has some control freak issues.

[godlessgrrl]

Yeah - I don't know if this particular vid is real or staged; but I can tell you, even if this one is fake, it's a really dead-on imitation of too much reality.

 

That's how my mom talked to me for as long as I can remember. It was worst in my teens. I actually feel lucky that she didn't react like that when I finally came out as an atheist. (But then, that was just this past year, and I'm well into adulthood by now...)

[Taphophilia]

My mother is more into drama. Uncontrolled crying fits, hyping up on valuim, and staying in bed becasue I've made her so sick I'm killing her.

[R. S. Martin]

Okay, he's a kid. Put that down to my low vision. I'm not sure if I qualify for legally blind at this point or not but I've been almost legally blind all my life and it's been getting worse the past few years. All I could tell for sure was that he was a young male but that he was old enough to be as tall as his dad when sitting. I couldn't tell that he was young until his mom turned him so I got the side profile. Also the relationship looked like parent-child rather than spouses. And when I heard his voice I knew he was young. And yes, it does seem kind of staged but that kind of screaming does happen in real life.

[R. S. Martin]

My mother is more into drama. Uncontrolled crying fits, hyping up on valuim, and staying in bed becasue I've made her so sick I'm killing her.

 

This is terrible! The guilt trips must have messed you up something awful till you found your own feet. Taph, no wonder I admire you so much--the strength and maturity it must have taken to get out of such a mess must be akin to heroic.

 

Okay, maybe I'm gushing. It just seems really selfish of a woman to treat her daughter like this.

[robbie]

I wasn't doubting that families do talk to (scream at) to each other like that. It's just that I have to wonder firstly why he would film that, and secondly who was actually filming it.

[YDOAPS]

My family honestly believe I'm going to be tortured forever and they joke about it. "I'll see you here, there, or in the air! Oh wait! Hahahahahaha....". I'm not sure which is worse; that or yelling.

[Kurari]

Wow. What a fucking bitch. I'm really glad to have been raised by agnostic/atheists so this subject never came up.

 

On anything else my mother and I disagreed on, it guilt tripping, nagging, and flat out telling me "No, you ARE going to do this."

[Amethyst]

You know, that's about how my mother would've reacted. Except I think she would've been much worse. Have to say that this is a very typical reaction, at least in a family that literally believes in the religious nonsense.

 

My dad and stepmom are the "we're pretty sure it's a myth, but we'll still go to church because everyone else does" variety of Christians, so at least they didn't overreact when I told them I didn't really believe in it. But then again, I think they had suspected for quite some time. And I don't live with them anymore, so my life is easier.

 

As for Christmas, I'd kind of miss seeing everyone, but I could live without the stress. Why can't families get together for non-holiday, non-tragedy, non-religious reasons? Or exchange gifts for non-religious, non-obligatory reasons? Does such a thing exist?

[R. S. Martin]

As for Christmas, I'd kind of miss seeing everyone, but I could live without the stress. Why can't families get together for non-holiday, non-tragedy, non-religious reasons? Or exchange gifts for non-religious, non-obligatory reasons? Does such a thing exist?

 

Yes. Many conservative Mennonite families have an annual family gathering just whenever it suits people. This can be any day of the week and any time of the year. I would say the same applied to gift-giving, at least when I was young.

[Taphophilia]

This is terrible! The guilt trips must have messed you up something awful till you found your own feet. Taph, no wonder I admire you so much--the strength and maturity it must have taken to get out of such a mess must be akin to heroic.

 

Okay, maybe I'm gushing. It just seems really selfish of a woman to treat her daughter like this.

 

Thanks, but I think there are a lot of people here on Ex-C who have gone through crap and are better people for it. We got out of Christianity, didn't we? You can always tell the people who have never had to deal with anything too tramatic in life. They don't have a clue how to relate to other people. Unfortunely, it seems many of them become counslors.

[R. S. Martin]

Thanks, but I think there are a lot of people here on Ex-C who have gone through crap and are better people for it. We got out of Christianity, didn't we?

 

YES WE DID!!! Glory halleluia amen. Oops! I thought I was out. Oh well, old habit die hard, huh?

 

You can always tell the people who have never had to deal with anything too tramatic in life. They don't have a clue how to relate to other people. Unfortunely, it seems many of them become counslors.

 

What you say about counselors happens to trigger a hot-button for me. I've spent the better part of the past nine years studying with classmates who were training for counselors. One of them wanted to do a paper on women who live in strong traditional patriarchal faith communities. She asked if I know of anyone she could talk to. I found one of my sisters was willing. It seems they hit it off very well and remained in contact.

 

There came a day when my sister and I clashed. She, apparently, talked with this former classmate of mine, and gave her my telephone number. So one day I got a call from this former classmate. Apparently she is now setting up her own practice, or at least she is working as a counselor. On the phone I told her that I need quite a bit of time before I can trust a person. She didn't like hearing that at all. She asked something like, "How do I know that you trust me?"

 

Perhaps she realized the inappropriateness of her question because she did not demand an answer. I didn't give one. There was no way I trusted her. She has to earn my trust and the alliance she and my sister had set up gave me every reason NOT to trust her. Perhaps my sister did not know that it was inappropriate to give out my telephone number without my permission (we did not grow up with telephone), but this counselor (former classmate) should have known. As a professional she should have told my sister that she needed my permission to give out my telephone number.

 

I suppose this new counselor, former classmate, drew on our history together in the same classes for two years and figured we were friends to the point where it was okay to casually give out my telephone number. It might have been okay had she wanted only to renew old friendships. But coming at me in the capacity of a person with the right to put me in my place did not go over at all and there was no way I was going to trust her with my heart.

 

I suppose she does help some people. But I have found very few counselors that understand me or can help me. In the end I wrote my sister a letter forbidding her or the former classmate to call me. Haven't heard from classmate since. Hope she learned a lesson. Not counting on it. After all it's Ruby who needs fixing. Everyone knows that so why even discuss it? Yeah right.

 

Seems I've shared this story before. Sorry if I bored someone. Oh well, you can always skip a post. It's not like I'm blaring in your ear in the same room as you.

[Guest Bellatrix]

Just to run a quick question by you guys, someone on another board I frequent expressed that he thought videotaping a family spat and posting it on YouTube was the height of "bad taste," and was airing "dirty laundry" on a public forum. Does anyone agree? Has anyone's privacy been violated by this video? I doubt the mother knew she was being secretly taped.

 

I think it's important to show what happens to atheist kids "coming out" to their parents, but this woman's anonymity may have been compromised without her consent. Is this kind of thing any different than someone coming on here and asking for help and advice with manipulative/abusive family members?

 

I'd really like to know. I'm in a bit of an ethical quandary here because I respect this guy's opinion but I think he's engaging in righteous pearl-clutching.

[Jedah]

I havent come out of the closet...all my life. I never really believed in it as a young kid, just went through the motions. and when I was old enough to make decisions on my own it quickly became clear that religion is mostly horseshit. Like Ive said before: Religion is like a tricycle. Great for the little people, but it only slows down those who can balance on their own.

 

My family would have definitely freaked like that. My father would probably disown me, and my mother would pile mountains of guilt. Growing up in a christian family means I also ended up in "Home fellowships" with other christian families. To anyone who thinks that video is faked, even if it is, the situation is all too real and happens every day.

 

But Ive hid it from them all my life. I know how my parents are. It would be better not only for me, but for them to not know. Probobly better for them. I seriously consider letting them go to the grave believing that I will be right behind them coming to paradise, because I know the only case where that wouldnt be for the best would be if they were to deconvert. I know them well, they would never reconsider their dogma. Its their life.

 

Funny thing is, its really the only lie I ever tell them.