Logic And Christianity

[Gary Thompson]

Unlike other testimonials, there's not much personal history here, just reasons why I left and why anyone could doubt christianity (or religeon in general).

 

The greatest contradiction in christianity is that the centre of it is, (other than praying before you go to bed, eat dinner or wipe your ass,) is supposed to be about being a "good" person. Charming phrases like:

"Do unto others as you would like done unto you"

"Love your neighbour"

and

"Turn the other cheek" (although than one's actually just stupid)

Meanwhile, you have entities such as the Spanish Inquisition who are noted as the greatest sadists in all of history. Yes, worse than Adolf Hitler, Vlad the Impaler and Mel Gibson.

All of which, with the exception of ol' Vlad, commited the atrocities in the name of god. But even if it was for god, it still defies the above three phrases.

The second contradiction to the same statement is the "god will forgive you if you go to church every sunday" law. I have personally witnessed many, many christians who live their life commiting incredibly "immoral" acts, and completely justifying themselves with their church visits. Worst of all in these people is that they totally believe that there's nothing wrong with that. Once again, defying the above three phrases.

 

The second thing is intolerance, most fundie christians go around chastizing other people who aren't like them (much like Faschists). Once again they do it in the name of Deus Vult. (God's Will for those less common with middle ages propaganda... or latin). This practice is very far from being a good person, ah, but they are good people, it is Deus Vult.

 

In machine logic, contradiction cannot be processed and end up causing a crash when executed. The programmers out there will know what I mean. The difference being that no decent programmer will even put contradictions into his program, whilst the guy who wrote the bible (no John Donahue, it wasn't god) didn't possess enough reasoning ability to avoid them. So surely anyone with a 70+ IQ can figure out that something that contradicts itself in more ways than one, in fact, something that consists purely of cantradictions, cannot be true. But, people still believe it! Why is that? Very basic...

 

Control. The thing that put me off religeon completely. When a child is born, the church and government (refering to schools etc) will immediately fill its head with religeous nonsense. The parent's will help because the same thing was done to them. So in effect, the child has always lived with this crap so they perceive it as true. Much like everyone is taught that all matter is made up of atoms and believe its true, have you ever seen an atom up close? The control that the church and government get by this is immense. After all, if everyone was a free-thinking individual, there would be much more disagreement and unrest and less support of the C&G. Would so many men have been mercilessly slaughtered in the crusades if they were atheist? No, because they wouldn't give a shit what the church says and would have no reason to value the "holy land". They just wouldn't have gone. That is but one example of religeous control.

 

Another thing which I thought about is "What if the muslim's are right"... or the Jews or the Budhists. All christians think that they're right and the muslim's are wrong while all muslims thing the opposite. So if religeon holds true, only one of the countless religeons on earth will be allowed into heaven after death. There's a recurring joke on South Park (no, it's not just fart jokes and kids swearing) that the only the Mormons get into heaven. So obviously I'm not the only one to have thought of it.

 

So, when I took all these things into consideration, despite the brainwashing constantly done at school (we had an hour a day dedicated solely to learning about god and the J-man), I just figured it out and let go very easily. If someone has trouble turning atheist because they fear hell/rapture/judgement day and so forth, that means that they are still 100% christian and aren't ready for it.

 

There are many more reasons disproving or at least putting up a fight against religeon but those four played the biggest part for me. There really isn't any logical arguement to defend the contradictions and paradoxes, nor can you defend people high up for clearly using it for their own gain.

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Anyway, that's it. Oh yeah, don't ask why I believe in atoms but not in god. I may never have been presented with first hand undeniable evidence of atoms, but at least there's logic in them. The paradoxes in atoms can be "explained" (sort of) in the field of quantum physics.

[Piprus]

Hi, Gary, and thanx for posting your ex-testimony.

Even as a long-time atheist, I still believe in those bits of ancient wisdom, the ones that were pilfered by the early xians to incorporate into their dogma. Examples like "Do unto others as you would like done to you", etc. Thinkers that lived and died long before the proverbial jebus came up with these observations. And they're valid enough concepts, just not original to the xians.

 

You'll find a lot of agreement with you here. Welcome, and enjoy...

[Gary Thompson]

Even as a long-time atheist, I still believe in those bits of ancient wisdom .... Examples like "Do unto others as you would like done to you", etc.

 

Yeah totally, me too. It's a shame the fundies don't.

 

The irony is almost unbearable. Us atheist go by that originally christian statement while the christians themselves (mostly) don't.

[Thurisaz]

Examples like "Do unto others as you would like done to you", etc. Thinkers that lived and died long before the proverbial jebus came up with these observations.

 

Even a number of other, older religions had the same concepts

 

To a friend a man a friend shall prove

And gifts with gifts requite

But men shall mocking with mockery answer

And fraud with falsehood meet

(The Poetic Edda, Havamal)

 

Not exactly the same, but goes a long way into the same direction, no?

[Gary Thompson]

Indeed it does.

[Robbobrob]

My personal take on the lack of logic in Christianity....it is a Pagan concept. Pagans like Aristotle and Socrates and Plato used it, it was part of the heathen culture that threatened Christian thought.

 

Might not be a conscious reason, but I think somewhere it does play a role in why logic just isn't important to Christians.

[Gary Thompson]

My personal take on the lack of logic in Christianity....it is a Pagan concept. Pagans like Aristotle and Socrates and Plato used it, it was part of the heathen culture that threatened Christian thought.

 

Might not be a conscious reason, but I think somewhere it does play a role in why logic just isn't important to Christians.

 

True, here's another reason, if everyone thought logically there would be no christians and the church would have no power. This wasn't a problem for the "heathens" because their religion barely had any effect on their personal lives.

[R. S. Martin]

Oh yeah, don't ask why I believe in atoms but not in god. I may never have been presented with first hand undeniable evidence of atoms, but at least there's logic in them. The paradoxes in atoms can be "explained" (sort of) in the field of quantum physics.

 

That's why I believe in and trust science--it operates on cause and effect logic. If you accept the premise of Christianity, you will see that it operates by its own kind of logic. Not cause and effect logic, exactly, but logic never-the-less.

 

You missed at least one major piece of cause and effect logic that is missing in Christianity. Not anywhere anytime do Christians ask: What changed when Jesus died?

 

Oh sure, they have libraries full of things they think changed but not a single one that makes sense in the larger cosmic picture. If Jesus' death actually opened heaven's gates, then something physical must have changed. I say physical because Jesus' body was physical. Nothing changed. Thus the entire ediface of Christianity falls. That is why I deconverted.

[DarthOkkata]

I completely agree with your sentiments. Just thought I'd add a bit.

 

I was fortunate enough to spend a little time in the presence of an Atomic Microscope at the University of Florida, while visiting a friend in one of the Science Labs there. I have seen an Atom. [several actually] Rest assured my friend, they do exist.

 

So, until the day they invent an 'Etherial Microscope', God remains unproven.

[Gary Thompson]

I was fortunate enough to spend a little time in the presence of an Atomic Microscope at the University of Florida

 

Did you happen to find out how they worked. It's always been a mystery how something can magnify that much without, lets say, being obstructed by the atoms of the lens.

[DarthOkkata]

I was fortunate enough to spend a little time in the presence of an Atomic Microscope at the University of Florida

 

Did you happen to find out how they worked. It's always been a mystery how something can magnify that much without, lets say, being obstructed by the atoms of the lens.

 

I'm not entirely sure of the particulars of how it works exactly. It's not using a lense though. My understanding is it works similar to radar. What you see is an image generated on a screen like a computer. It was kind of orange and red, and I'm not entirely sure what type of imaging was used. They kind of looked like little blobs, like a planet that's out of focus in a telescope, with the moons blurred into the image around the nucleus moving very quickly around it. It wasn't very clear, but you could see enough to tell what they were.