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Baby Fae


Thurisaz
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Hey folks,

 

just stumbled about that one. Sounds (sadly) absolutely believable to me, but one can never be too sure... anyone of you got independent confirmation from somewhere? Anyone able to remember the original media coverage?

 

(From a sidenote in the article, I'd assume that the horror took place in Australia, so Casey and our other friends from down under are addressed specifically...)

 

The horror story

 

(Scroll down, what I refer to can be found at the end of the page)

 

If that is true, I've reserved some free spaces for you close to me at the wall of bashing :banghead:

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http://www.curedisease.com/Perspectives/vo...90/BabyFae.html

 

"Bailey's use of baboons was somewhat surprising, given their relatively distant evolutionary relationship to humans compared to other primates. The reason came to light when the Times of London published an interview between Bailey and an Australian radio crew. The reporters had been forbidden to ask direct questions about the operation, so they queried Bailey on the issue of why he had chosen a baboon in view of the baboon's evolutionary distance from humans. Bailey replied, "Er, I find that difficult to answer. You see, I don't believe in evolution."6 It is shocking that Bailey ignored basic biological concepts in formulating a life-threatening human experiment."

 

 

 

http://media.www.iowastatedaily.com/media/...t-1106557.shtml

"The operation was a short-lived success. As the world held its breath and prayed for the survival of the infant child, Baby Fae's immune system mounted an enormous response against the foreign tissue. In no less than a week, Baby Fae was dead as a result of the vast difference between what her immune system would tolerate and what was transplanted into her.

 

When asked why he chose the heart of such a distant relative of humans instead of a more closely related species, such as a chimpanzee, Bailey replied, "I don't believe in evolution," according to the London Times."

 

 

It would appear thatnot only does the 'good'(?) doctor not believe in evolution, he doens't beleive in blood types either...

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Let me get this straight....he does not believe in evolution, but he believed enough to think that a baboon heart was compatible with a human heart?

 

That poor kid suffered so needlessly for the ego of that doctor.

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The heart surgery was performed at Loma Linda University Medical Center, which is owned by the Seventh-Day Adventist Church, which may explain the doctor's views on evolution. Check out the Wikipedia entry on the medical center:

Loma Linda University Medical Center made international news on October 26, 1984, when Dr. Leonard L Bailey transplanted a baboon heart into Baby Fae, an infant born with a severe heart defect known as left hypoplastic heart. Unfortunately, Baby Fae died a few weeks later. However, this effort led to the successful infant heart transplant program, with transplantation of human-to-human infant transplants.

Huh? Sounds like they're whitewashing the sacrifice of Baby Fae, turning it into a major step towards successful heart transplants. Move over, Thurisaz. :banghead:

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Too late! *rips out his hair* :crazy:

 

(later)

 

Duh. Caught in my own metaphorical trap.

 

*moves over and lets Ex-COG take his place beside him*

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Save room for me too, please! I think the concrete wall that I'm sitting next to whilst I type this would work quite well!

 

They gave that stupid fucker a doctorate!?

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Save room for me too, please! I think the concrete wall that I'm sitting next to whilst I type this would work quite well!

 

They gave that stupid fucker a doctorate!?

It's amazing what you can get by saving Bazooka Joe Comics...

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Should I mention I go to Loma Linda on a fairly regular basis? It's actually a nice medical center (ignoring the religious aspect and the paintings of jesus hanging everywhere). Their treatment for prostate cancer is top notch (and saved my dads life).

 

I know...it doesn't counter this stupid heart transplant thing with Baby Fae...I'm just saying not all the doctors there are so totally backwards.

 

mwc

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TBH, the Baby Fae thing did advance the field of trans-species transplantation. It worked for a couple of weeks. OK, we can dislike the man's religion, and question his medical ethics. However, medical ethics and medical advancement do not always go hand in hand.

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Hey folks,

 

just stumbled about that one. Sounds (sadly) absolutely believable to me, but one can never be too sure... anyone of you got independent confirmation from somewhere? Anyone able to remember the original media coverage?

 

(From a sidenote in the article, I'd assume that the horror took place in Australia, so Casey and our other friends from down under are addressed specifically...)

 

The horror story

 

(Scroll down, what I refer to can be found at the end of the page)

 

If that is true, I've reserved some free spaces for you close to me at the wall of bashing :banghead:

 

Actually it didn't happen in Australia, it took place in Los Angeles, Ca. The surgeon involved was interviewed by the ABC (Australian non-commercial TV network) in the mid Eighties. I have not been able to find the transcript of the original interview, but here is an excerpt from a program aired in 1996:

 

Now Health Report's devotees might recall that in the mid-80s, we were the only program in the world to get an interview with California heart surgeon, Dr Leonard Bailey. Amidst huge controversy, he had transplanted a baboon heart into a baby born with a tiny left ventricle. The child was only known as Fae.

 

Norman Swan: If we leave medicine and go to evolution now, what's the extent of the genetic differences between baboons and humans?

 

Leonard Bailey: You're talking to a fundamentalist in a sense, and so my concepts of evolution deal more with a micro evolution, a variation within species. And I don't have a keen understanding of the differences.

 

Norman Swan: When you say fundamentalist, you mean what?

 

Leonard Bailey: Perhaps all of us having been created more or less at the same time, including the sub human primates.

 

Norman Swan: Religious fundamentalist Dr Leonard Bailey, of Loma Linda University in California.

 

Further to this we have that:

 

The most notorious case was that of ‘Baby Fae’. In 1984 in Los Angeles, Dr Leonard Bailey transplanted a baboon heart into a newborn baby with serious heart problems. The baby died 20 days later. As correspondent Jim Middleton reported at the time, a transplant from a baboon wasn’t even necessary.

 

Jim Middleton: As it turns out the centre in Los Angeles which co-ordinates organ transplants did have a human heart available, but the doctors who performed the baboon heart operation did not call to check. However officials at Loma Linda say the question of a human heart being available is irrelevant.

 

Leonard Bailey: We didn’t even know it was available, and if we had known that it was available, our research has been in the area of xenotransplantation, that is transplantation between animals of different species.

 

Jim Middleton: Dr Leonard Bailey, the surgeon who performed the transplant, has also carried out a series of experimental transplants in animals, and that raised another issue because his hospital’s ethics committee had called for more experimental work before a transplant into a human was attempted.

 

The hospital was Loma Linda University Hospital, Los Angeles, Ca.

Casey

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The hospital was Loma Linda University Hospital, Los Angeles, Ca.

To pick nits it's actually about an hour and a half outside downtown Los Angeles (in average traffic). It's closer to the city of San Bernardino or Ontario International Airport but who the hell has heard of them, right? ;) It's also about an hour from Disneyland. It's really just located in Loma Linda, Ca.

 

mwc

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The hospital was Loma Linda University Hospital, Los Angeles, Ca.

To pick nits it's actually about an hour and a half outside downtown Los Angeles (in average traffic). It's closer to the city of San Bernardino or Ontario International Airport but who the hell has heard of them, right? ;) It's also about an hour from Disneyland. It's really just located in Loma Linda, Ca.

 

mwc

 

One of those place one comes from. I was born in just such a place...

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I suppose so. To hear others one would think that pretty much all of Southern California is somehow Los Angeles. I guess the same is true of London being England or Sydney being Australia. It just got to me today I guess. Fortunately, I'm sure most folks have already ignored me and my little tangent. :HaHa:

 

mwc

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I suppose so. To hear others one would think that pretty much all of Southern California is somehow Los Angeles. I guess the same is true of London being England or Sydney being Australia. It just got to me today I guess. Fortunately, I'm sure most folks have already ignored me and my little tangent. :HaHa:

 

mwc

 

What grabbed my attention was Ontario International Airport. The international airport in Ontario is Toronto. Maybe there is another one in Hamilton and for all I know there could be one in Sudbury, too. Did someone once say there is a town or city in California called Ontario?

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I suppose so. To hear others one would think that pretty much all of Southern California is somehow Los Angeles. I guess the same is true of London being England or Sydney being Australia. It just got to me today I guess. Fortunately, I'm sure most folks have already ignored me and my little tangent. :HaHa:

 

mwc

 

Aye. Just like the urban valley I'm in right now is all Salt Lake City, despite being composed of probably half a dozen or more "cities." ;)

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Did someone once say there is a town or city in California called Ontario?

That there is. Ontario, Ca. It has an airport. :) Oh, I suppose the big mall is technically there too. Some other things I suppose. It gets pretty darn hot and smoggy in the summer. I'm probably not do a very good job selling you on our version of Ontario. :( Did I mention the airport? Beats LAX. ;)

 

mwc

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Aye. Just like the urban valley I'm in right now is all Salt Lake City, despite being composed of probably half a dozen or more "cities." ;)

As I discovered recently on a road trip through there on my way to Wendover (then I learned of the 93 I think it was and bypassed the whole state back to Vegas). What the heck do those numbers on all your road signs mean ("6500 so" or something like that...they weren't the names of the roads or regular exit numbers)?

 

mwc

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Those would be road numbers, yes. Our roads are laid out in a grid pattern, and most major streets are numbered rather than named.

 

That's one of the (few) things I know I'm going to keenly miss about Utah when I finally manage to get out of here. Directions usually consist of a person's address, which is then easily found by simply going to that area of the grid. No long, convoluted list of landmarks, counting traffic lights and stupid winding streets, just match the numbers with the location and you're set.

 

For all Brigham Young was a fucking bastard, I sorely wish other city planners had/would see the logic of how he laid out SLC.

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I suppose so. To hear others one would think that pretty much all of Southern California is somehow Los Angeles. I guess the same is true of London being England or Sydney being Australia. It just got to me today I guess. Fortunately, I'm sure most folks have already ignored me and my little tangent. :HaHa:

 

mwc

 

What grabbed my attention was Ontario International Airport. The international airport in Ontario is Toronto. Maybe there is another one in Hamilton and for all I know there could be one in Sudbury, too. Did someone once say there is a town or city in California called Ontario?

 

 

Someone already somewhat answered this, but yes, there is another international airport in So Cal. The DH works in Ontario, right next to the airport, and were about 40 minutes away from Ontario.

 

Loma Linda as also mentioned is not only not ni LA, it's not even ni LA county, it's in San Bernardino Co. Some friends of mine and myself have a theory that San Berdo is one of the inner rings of hell, with Barstow actaully being hell. Side note, in case this thread wasn't hyjaxed enough, Redlands CA is right next to Loma Linda, and has some really pretty examples of victorian ginger bread houses.

 

http://www.redlandsweb.com/history/victorian_homes.htm

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