R. S. Martin Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I shudder to think that some Christian friend of mine might actually stumble across this. Let me clarify that God correctly defined fits into my beliefs. I reject the god who led the Israelites out of Egypt and needed a blood sacrifice to let us into heaven. I do not believe that such a god exists or ever has existed. The awe-inspiring reality of the vast universe and beauty that some people call God is real. It exists. There is no arguing about it. The joy when human hearts meld for a common purpose that some people call church I also believe in because it exists. In that case, a city bus can become a cathedral. A mother with two little children boarded the bus when it was practically empty. One was a toddler in a stroller. The other was a three-year-old who headed to the back of the bus and refused to return to mom at the front. I had never seen the family but I felt some concern as to what would become of the little kid at the back of the bus when the older school kids got on and the bus filled up, separating the child from her mother. I offered the mom to stay with the one in the stroller if she wanted to go get the other one. I did not feel confident that she would trust her child to me but she did. That's the sort of human bonding that is supposed to happen in church and heathens would never do it. Right? Well, I didn't ask the mom if she would let an atheist watch her kid. I did not ask her if she believed in god or ever went to church. I did notice that she was very respectful of her little girl but also firm. I'm not sure what I would have done if she had been the screaming yelling kind. I might have thought the kid knows why she puts distance between herself and the screaming maniac who tried to own and control her. I know a lot of people who would say that little girl should have been soundly scolded and spanked. Those people will profess from the housetops that jesus is returning--when is it, June 12, 2007, that they predict at the moment--and they condemn all of us so-called wicked people to hell. Well those people will beat their kids into submission. Just like their god. Read Romans 9. No matter what we do or don't do god is going to make us do whatever he feels like and we have no right even to question if he's in his right mind. Paul says, "Who do you think you are, you asshat? God is God and God can do whatever he wants. If he needs a tyrant to show his own awesome power he has every right to harden some felon's heart so he can do it. And he has every right to send that felon to hell when he's done with him." Okay, that line about sending Pharoah and Esau to hell is not there. But what fundy growing up with the hell doctrine is not going to automatically read hell into it? This post is not turning out the way it was supposed to. It was supposed to highlight the Tyrant of the Universe Paul depicts in Romans 9. Instead I got off onto a tangent about a some true human fellowship in City Bus Cathedral. One part of me says, "Just cut out the nice fluffy stuff about moms who treat their kids decently and focus on Romans 9." The other part of me says, "Hold on a bit! This world has seen its share of hatred. Why not mix in a bit of kindness and see where the thread goes. In the real world the two co-exist side by side. Hopefully the good will win out in the end." So I'll post it this way and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share Posted April 20, 2007 Here's the highlights of the passage I'm talking about: God Hates Esau 6 It is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all Israelites truly belong to Israel, 7 and not all of Abraham's children are his true descendants; but "It is through Isaac that descendants shall be named for you." 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as descendants. 9 For this is what the promise said, "About this time I will return and Sarah shall have a son." 10 Nor is that all; something similar happened to Rebecca when she had conceived children by one husband, our ancestor Isaac. 11 Even before they had been born or had done anything good or bad (so that God's purpose of election might continue, 12 not by works but by his call) she was told, "The elder shall serve the younger." 13 As it is written, "I have loved Jacob, but I have hated Esau."#_ftn1 #_ftnref1The Holy Bible : New Revised Standard Version. 1996, c1989 (Ro 9:6). Nashville: Thomas Nelson. God Makes Pharoah Bad so He Can Show His Own Power 16 So it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God who shows mercy. 17 For the scripture says to Pharaoh, "I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he chooses, and he hardens the heart of whomever he chooses.#_ftn1 #_ftnref1The Holy Bible : New Revised Standard Version. 1996, c1989 (Ro 9:16). Nashville: Thomas Nelson. God has a Right To Do That Because He's God 20 But who indeed are you, a human being, to argue with God? Will what is molded say to the one who molds it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one object for special use and another for ordinary use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the objects of wrath that are made for destruction;#_ftn1 #_ftnref1The Holy Bible : New Revised Standard Version. 1996, c1989 (Ro 9:20). Nashville: Thomas Nelson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share Posted April 20, 2007 Ruby My wife has Fibromyalgia and it has caused her much suffering. I had to ask myself why a so called loving God would allow my wife to suffer and others, some much worse, some not as bad, and yet others in other ways. I could not follow such a tyrannical God myself. Right on! You posted while I was writing. My deconversion was over a different reason but this chapter has always bothered me big time. God was not as good as my parents expected me to be. That was just plain unacceptable. I had extreme problems with that chapter. And no one ever preached on that part. It nearly drove me crazy. Here I was supposed to profess belief in God and in right living and that the Bible was true. But the Bible said such horrible things about god--things that are so horribly unfair that even kids know it's wrong. But I'm forced to say it's good because it was the Creator of the Universe who did and said it. There is no icon to express my feelings on that so I'll leave it to the reader's imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 "Flash....Ahhhhh...He'll save every one of us. Flash....AHHHHH....King of the Impossible." GH, are you saying Flash was saving us from God? I find that a very funny thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 "Flash....Ahhhhh...He'll save every one of us. Flash....AHHHHH....King of the Impossible." GH, are you saying Flash was saving us from God? I find that a very funny thought. you mean when you hear people rattling about God you don't see Charles Middleton as Ming, the despot's despot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I think I will from this day on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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