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Guest Earl
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<B>1 Jn. 3:9 </B>"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Why do so many churches teach 1 Jn. 1:8 and refused to address the above written scripture?

The above verse states that born-again (or Born from above or Born of God) people DO NOT SIN, nor can they. So I am confused when I go into a church and ask who's born again, almost the whole church says, yes and when I ask do you sin? They reply yes and when I show this written scripture they quote 1 Jn. 1:8 which says IF A MAN ( NOT born-again) says he is without sin, he is a liar and the Truth's not in him.

 

Also 1 Jn. 5:18 and Romans chapters 6, 7 & 8 all syas the same as 1 Jn. 3:9, actually 1 Jn. 3:6-10. Is the Word of God a liar or are Christians lying when they say "everybody sins"?

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Seeing this made me realize something: If a man born of god cannot sin then he cannot be held accountable for anything bad he does. Meaning he literally could do anything and not be punished for it (at least by god). Christians claim an atheist can do anything because we have no morality...but where th hell does absolute morality come in when you say you cannot sin/cannot do bad in gods eyes? After all they do say that morality comes from god...

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<B>1 Jn. 3:9 </B>"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;

I can't commit sin either. Sin is a concept of the christian religion and since I am not a part of that silly religion, I cannot sin.

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Seeing this made me realize something: If a man born of god cannot sin then he cannot be held accountable for anything bad he does. Meaning he literally could do anything and not be punished for it (at least by god). Christians claim an atheist can do anything because we have no morality...but where th hell does absolute morality come in when you say you cannot sin/cannot do bad in gods eyes? After all they do say that morality comes from god...

 

I don't think you understand, when someone is ACTUALLY born-again by the written scriptures and not self proclaiming, you CAN NOT SIN. That does not mean you can go and do what you want to do, because you CAN NOT sin.

Religion has taught for hundreds if not thousands of years what sin is and NOT by the written scriuptures. Also even today does religion teach, 1 Jn. 1:8, if a man says he is without sin, he is a lair. If a MAN, and NOT a born again new creature in Christ. 2 Tim. 2:15 so how is forgotten. The Word of God does NOT lie, therefore if we sin then we are NOT born again or what you are calling sin is NOT sin. Anything done without Faith is Sin!

Too many Christians want to defend their doctrines, rather then understand what the written Word says. It is easier to call another person wrong then to admit it is the written scriptures that most disagree with or want to change what is written instead of believing waht is written. It is the flesh and Religion they change the written Word to justify want they want or what's best for everyone. The Word of God does NOT regulate morality, because that is a religious concept NOT Gods. God said, "Be Holy as I am Holy" have we forgotten that or do we just like to say, to ourselves, I can go and sin because I have forgiveness by the Blood of the Lamb, EVERY WEEK!

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<B>1 Jn. 3:9 </B>"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Why do so many churches teach 1 Jn. 1:8 and refused to address the above written scripture?

The above verse states that born-again (or Born from above or Born of God) people DO NOT SIN, nor can they. So I am confused when I go into a church and ask who's born again, almost the whole church says, yes and when I ask do you sin? They reply yes and when I show this written scripture they quote 1 Jn. 1:8 which says IF A MAN ( NOT born-again) says he is without sin, he is a liar and the Truth's not in him.

 

Also 1 Jn. 5:18 and Romans chapters 6, 7 & 8 all syas the same as 1 Jn. 3:9, actually 1 Jn. 3:6-10. Is the Word of God a liar or are Christians lying when they say "everybody sins"?

 

I have asked ministers this same question several times with no satisfactory answer. On one hand, we are told that Jesus dies for all our sins, then we are told that he who is born of God cannot sin, and then told that if you sin, you are supposed to confess to God for forgiveness..Uh!? Which one is it? If he that is in me is supposed to be greater than he who is in the world and I am no longer supposed to sin, then why do I struggle with the same "sins" I had before I bot born-again? It's all hogwash if you ask me...

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It's all hogwash if you ask me...

 

Bingo. The bible has huge contradictions that cannot be explained without accepting one simple fact...it is not inerrant in any way, shape or form.

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*shrugs* Just another variation of the "not a True Christian" argument. Except this one rules out every Christian I've ever known.

 

ETA: Better re-worded as there is no such thing as a True Christian argument.

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I don't think you understand, when someone is ACTUALLY born-again by the written scriptures and not self proclaiming, you CAN NOT SIN. That does not mean you can go and do what you want to do, because you CAN NOT sin.

Yes but someone could constrew it to mean what I said is my point. I know people who are absolutely insane about the whole BS of sinning.

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Also 1 Jn. 5:18 and Romans chapters 6, 7 & 8 all syas the same as 1 Jn. 3:9, actually 1 Jn. 3:6-10. Is the Word of God a liar or are Christians lying when they say "everybody sins"?

 

 

In my opinion both are wrong....Christians aren't lying generally, because they really believe what they are saying, however, the bible is far from perfect, and in order for sin to exist there has to be a god to sin against...and there isn't.

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<B>1 Jn. 3:9 </B>"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Why do so many churches teach 1 Jn. 1:8 and refused to address the above written scripture?

The above verse states that born-again (or Born from above or Born of God) people DO NOT SIN, nor can they. So I am confused when I go into a church and ask who's born again, almost the whole church says, yes and when I ask do you sin? They reply yes and when I show this written scripture they quote 1 Jn. 1:8 which says IF A MAN ( NOT born-again) says he is without sin, he is a liar and the Truth's not in him.

 

Also 1 Jn. 5:18 and Romans chapters 6, 7 & 8 all syas the same as 1 Jn. 3:9, actually 1 Jn. 3:6-10. Is the Word of God a liar or are Christians lying when they say "everybody sins"?

 

1 John 3:9--

 

NIV: No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

 

ESV: No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's[a] seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

 

NASB: No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

The overall thought here, I believe, is that a Christian will no longer actively practice sin. What's the fine line between actively practicing, and just simply screwing up alot, or even fighting an addiction? I don't know. But we don't cease to sin, or become sinless.

 

I really like how the ESV reads here.

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Now, if Jesus died for your sins, which sins did he die for? All of them. So, when accepting Jesus and asking him to forgive your sins, which sins are you asking him to forgive? Wouldn't that be all the sins that you have ever and will ever commit in your life? So, why do Christian's continually ask for forgiveness, if they have already been forgiven? Doesn't this show a lack of faith in their original "sinner's" prayer?

 

Also, if you are already forgiven for every sin you have or will ever commit, wouldn't that make you sinless?

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Now, if Jesus died for your sins, which sins did he die for? All of them.

 

Right.

 

So, when accepting Jesus and asking him to forgive your sins, which sins are you asking him to forgive? Wouldn't that be all the sins that you have ever and will ever commit in your life?

 

Right

 

So, why do Christian's continually ask for forgiveness, if they have already been forgiven? Doesn't this show a lack of faith in their original "sinner's" prayer?

 

Ughh, not a fan of the "sinner's prayer." But yes, once we come to Christ, we're forgiven for all. In the eyes of God, it's a done deal. This is speaking of our position in Christ. The thing is, it's hard to live up to our positional standing. we mess up, but knowing God's grace we are able to turn right back around and strive for holiness.

 

Also, if you are already forgiven for every sin you have or will ever commit, wouldn't that make you sinless?

 

Well, positionally speaking, yes, I suppose that's ok to say. Romans 8:29-30 -- "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

 

Notice the past tense of the verbs in those verses. As God sees it, as one who is timeless and eternal, it's a done deal. He can see the finished product, when one day we will have nothing more to do with sin. But we still gotta live out day to day life, where we do sin, which is why 1 John 1:8 says "If we say we have so sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

 

That's my best understanding, hope it was somewhat adequate.

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<B>1 Jn. 3:9 </B>"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Why do so many churches teach 1 Jn. 1:8 and refused to address the above written scripture?

The above verse states that born-again (or Born from above or Born of God) people DO NOT SIN, nor can they. So I am confused when I go into a church and ask who's born again, almost the whole church says, yes and when I ask do you sin? They reply yes and when I show this written scripture they quote 1 Jn. 1:8 which says IF A MAN ( NOT born-again) says he is without sin, he is a liar and the Truth's not in him.

 

Also 1 Jn. 5:18 and Romans chapters 6, 7 & 8 all syas the same as 1 Jn. 3:9, actually 1 Jn. 3:6-10. Is the Word of God a liar or are Christians lying when they say "everybody sins"?

Jibber-jabber, and a launching point for but more jibber-jabber.

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I don't think you understand, when someone is ACTUALLY born-again by the written scriptures and not self proclaiming, you CAN NOT SIN. That does not mean you can go and do what you want to do, because you CAN NOT sin.

I get it, you are making a vain argument that real christians are incapable of doing wrong. They're just so moral that they can't sin. What a load of BS. The lies they tell, like the lies you are telling here, prove they have no morals.

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I can't commit sin either. Sin is a concept of the christian religion and since I am not a part of that silly religion, I cannot sin.

 

Precisely. Since there is no such thing as "sin" we are all therefore sinless.

 

But if we go by Xian mythology, the Xian god sinned quite a bit, so how anyone born of him is unable to sin is beyond me :crazy:

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Isn't that just a wee bit circular? If one is born of God, they don't make a practice of sinning because they are born of God. Why add the 'because' part?

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Congratulations numbnut... you're an idiot.

 

First, show us where it states you have to be born again... it doesn't.

Second, show us where the contradiction between 1 Jn 3:9 and 1 Jn 1:8 is... since both of them are explicit in the way they say nothing about being born again.

Third, since it's impossible to live without sinning thanks to the amazing amount of contradictions in the Bible, you've just proven that there is no such thing as a Christian and we're all gonna burn.

 

 

 

Misreading the Bible? Check.

Adding your own belief to the Bible? Check.

Insisting that you're right and other Christians are wrong? Check.

Managing to make a complete fool of yourself? Check.

 

Just another standard Christwerpian moron... nothing to see here.

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I can't commit sin either. Sin is a concept of the christian religion and since I am not a part of that silly religion, I cannot sin.

 

Precisely. Since there is no such thing as "sin" we are all therefore sinless.

 

But if we go by Xian mythology, the Xian god sinned quite a bit, so how anyone born of him is unable to sin is beyond me :crazy:

Would now be a really good time to point out that Adam was born of God... as was Satan. :HaHa:

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What I don't get is why a Christian would raise a purely Christian question on a exChristian forum. Surely he knows we are all beyond being stuck at that question. If he wants genuine input why wouldn't he raise it on one of the innumerable fundy forums on the internet? And if he hopes to raise guilt complexes (as fundies so love to do) surely he is smart enough to know not to look at folks like us--the kind of folks most susceptible to guilt complexes are found in the churches on a Sunday morning. Go preach to them. That is what they want.

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I know why these holiness people come up with these unanswerable questions. It lets them confess over and over what horrible people they are. That makes them look pious. It lets them off the hook without ever having to actually change their lives. That is really convenient when you really think about it.

 

We had a real holiness guy sitting on the ministry bench in my church and I would just seeth inside. I would think, "If you're such a horrible person for goodness sake figure out what you're doing wrong and change yourself! Quit your pity-party public confessions and actually change your Self. And if you mess up again, go make things right--make restitution to whoever you wronged--like you tell young people to do. Just quit being such a big blubbering baby!"

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Let's see. That isn't a very pious thing to think. And I would think it in church. He never actually cried because Old Order Mennonites don't make such a show of their feelings but he did everything but--the wailing voice of complaint and hopelessness to appear duly penitent. If ever a pious Christian is all-inclusive it is when making such sweeping confessions--they will say "we're all like that all of the time. We never manage to ever measure to what we should be. We're A-L-L-L such poor failure-prone humans who could not go on for one day were it not for the gracious and overwhelmingly great love and grace of this great and glorious God whom we must worship every day of our lives if we hope to ever even get into heaven--and this is just inside the door, let alone close to God. We must be glad if we ever so much as get inside the door!"

 

By the time he gets to that point he forgets that he was debasing himself; he is now warning how great the danger of not being content just to be inside the door. And on and on and on forever and ever world without end amen and amen. This might raise images from Revelation which would start on a whole new topic that would inevitably lead to the Great Judgment Seat of God with all due warning that inevitable goes with that kind of sermon......

 

This is extemporaneous piety preaching at its best. And oh yes! we must repent--all the time and always for we are each and everyone of us such great and terrible sinners....

 

Sound familiar, anyone?

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  • 5 months later...

"True Christians [TM] don't sin"

 

Riiiiiight. And TRUE psychic-hotline-operators never get it wrong, either. For EVERY one of you pathetic treasure-diggers**, there are scores of people who make your pretend spirituality look like the crock of steaming shit that it is.

 

**Treasure-diggers: Those of you who're convinced that you can find/have found the fucking Fountain of Youth, the Holy Grail, the Maltese Falcon, the True Ark of the Covenant.

 

Those who say, "if we COULD ONLY find": The writers of books like Prayer of Jabez or any of your other devotional/delusional Xtian self-improvement manuals. Oh, and those who read said manuals in the hope of FINALLY finding the KEY to unlocking the POWER of the imaginary UberGhostie.

 

Those who say, "we HAVE found": Rick Warren/Porpoise-Drivel Life, anyone who holds seminars to teach their particular church's formula for 'ministry'. Yes, and those who attend said seminars, hoping to be noticed as someone who has 'gotten it' and is eligible for inclusion in the Xtian 'old boy' network. (Pentecostals are particularly fond of that method).

 

What the FUCK ever, dude. If you REALLY were the Xtian you say you are, sinless and all that, you and your kind would usher in a legitimate revival the likes of which the world has never, ever seen. You would convert every non-believer on Earth (or all the 'elect', as your fucked-up case may be).

 

I love searching online for video of people who claim to know the martial arts that wind up getting their asses kicked in a fight with a real expert. Dude, you are talking judo when you are living doo-doo.

 

Prove your point out in the real world, or shut the fuck up.

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The Word of God does NOT lie,

Then why does it say so many things that have been proven false, such as the 7 day creation, the earth being entirely flooded with only 30 days of rain, and boat that would have been, when measured out, not that big, fitting thousands of animals on it, plus food for a family and all the animals to last for several years, an omnipotent god who while loving and merciful, sends his own son to a terrible death because there is no other way, and a god who while loving and merciful, kills people for not obeying while on earth, and eternally damns them to hell for not believing him.

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"Christian's don't sin" ... Except that the sentence is a lie, so then by saying such a thing is a sin.

 

Btw, "sin" is defined only by and within religion. "Sin" doesn't exist as a real or comprehensive concept outside of religion, so a non-theist can't sin either, since "sin" doesn't exist in his worldview.

 

So then, who does sin?

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