Brother's Question

[garrisonjj]

We were having a religious discussion and I made the comment "its all fairytales>" I have deconverted from my catholicism about 2 years now. Then brother asked the question "Do you even go to church?" I answered yes and that was all. I do go on holidays and for social reasons, but I really don't go anymore unless I HAVE to.

Anyway, I'm feeling very down after this discussion.

I really can't stand religion and probably do not believe in god, however I was very bothered by this exchange. Comments? Thanks.

[mwc]

We were having a religious discussion and I made the comment "its all fairytales>" I have deconverted from my catholicism about 2 years now. Then brother asked the question "Do you even go to church?" I answered yes and that was all. I do go on holidays and for social reasons, but I really don't go anymore unless I HAVE to.

Anyway, I'm feeling very down after this discussion.

I really can't stand religion and probably do not believe in god, however I was very bothered by this exchange. Comments? Thanks.

Well, let's see...

 

"its all fairytales"

"I have deconverted"

"'Do you even go to church?' ... yes"

"on holidays and for social reasons...unless I HAVE to"

"I really can't stand religion"

"probably do not believe in god"

 

I think that's everything. So where in here do you actually say where you're bothered by this exchange? What about these key points (unless I'm missing the point) is bothering you exactly? Is it that you cannot be honest with your brother? With yourself? Are you trying to convince yourself of something, but can't, and want us to do it?

 

I mean you're a guy that has deconverted, that still goes to church ("for social reasons," *cough* <bullshit> *cough*...you're a grown man unlike other here so unless someone dies, you *need* that promotion to save your house or something like that you don't have to do anything). And at the very end you state you "probably" don't believe in god (meaning, I assume, the very god you claim is a fairytale).

 

If you believe in god (YHWH/Jesus) then go to church and quit denying it. If it's the Catholic church you hate then find something else and worship your god there (some sort of Reformed Catholic Church? I was Lutheran so I'm ignorant). But I'm sure not going to say old jesus is a piece of imaginary crap to reassure you that you made the right decision. Only you know that.

 

So, again, tell me what it is you're really asking because I seem to be missing it.

 

mwc

[Grandpa Harley]

High Episcopalian (Anglican) is the closest thing to a 'reformed Catholic'

[Mythra]

And at the very end you state you "probably" don't believe in god (meaning, I assume, the very god you claim is a fairytale).

 

I'm gonna hazard a guess that this is what's bugging garrisonjj.

 

Saying it's all fairytales - then saying I probably don't believe in god. As in I hope I'm right about this.

 

Once you really get religion out of your brain, it goes beyond this. For me, I can say it's all fairytales. It's all a pretend game with imaginary friends. When asked if I still attend church, I can laugh. No need for churches or synagogues or mosques or convents or temples. All of those fine buildings house the same things - conversations and relationships with pretend entities.

 

When asked about my eternal soul, I can have a nice chuckle about it. For no such thing exists. Not for me or you or Billy Graham or the black labrador that kept me awake last night barking.

 

Life is so much easier when lived in the real world.

[Amanda]

I really can't stand religion and probably do not believe in god, however I was very bothered by this exchange. Comments? Thanks.

Garrisn JJ, do you feel like your decisions in these regards are a disappointment to your family? Perhaps you see it in their eyes and their demeanor. You know how they feel when you deny what they consider the core of life itself. Maybe you feel you have become a problem for your family now? I think you would feel the same way if they believed in Zeus or Ra or Santa Claus or pink unicorns.

 

If this is the case, you could continue to be unhappy and enable them to manipulate your life to be something you're not. Or you can feel sorry for them that they are still caught in a belef system that limits them in their ability to appreciate life and robs them of their abilities in being self empowered. That seems to be an easy choice, even if you love your family and want them to be happy. I'm sure they love you and want you to be happy too. One thing for sure, this life is the only one we are guaranteed to have, so why not live your life the way you see best?

[garrisonjj]

I really can't stand religion and probably do not believe in god, however I was very bothered by this exchange. Comments? Thanks.

Garrisn JJ, do you feel like your decisions in these regards are a disappointment to your family? Perhaps you see it in their eyes and their demeanor. You know how they feel when you deny what they consider the core of life itself. Maybe you feel you have become a problem for your family now? I think you would feel the same way if they believed in Zeus or Ra or Santa Claus or pink unicorns.

 

If this is the case, you could continue to be unhappy and enable them to manipulate your life to be something you're not. Or you can feel sorry for them that they are still caught in a belef system that limits them in their ability to appreciate life and robs them of their abilities in being self empowered. That seems to be an easy choice, even if you love your family and want them to be happy. I'm sure they love you and want you to be happy too. One thing for sure, this life is the only one we are guaranteed to have, so why not live your life the way you see best?

 

Amanda, you hit the nail on the head. MWC, Amanda summarizied the closest thing to what I'm feeling.

[mwc]

Well, then, there you go. It seems the answer is to stop pretending to be something you're not. So if that means you're not a believer anymore and you're not religious anymore then stop going to church and the religious social functions for YOURSELF because you're not going to get any fulfillment doing any of these things for OTHERS.

 

My mom called and asked me if I was going to go with them to Easter service (actually she spoke to my wife and this was passed onto me...but whatever) and my reply was basically "Why would I do that? Why would I go worship something I think is a myth?" I know this didn't get passed back to my mom this way but I won't go and I see no reason to go to appease her even though I hate to see her upset. It's just the way it is. If I did it intentionally to upset her then I'd have to examine my motives but that's obviously not the case (and she doesn't ask me in order to upset me so I don't let that bother me). This will happen all over again come xmas but this time I will actually be at their house. The entire family will pack up and go to church while I will stay behind...alone. I won't go...not for some protest or anything like that...but because I simply don't believe it and going is not something I'm going to do just to do it. I will concede the issue for a wedding or funeral...something like that...but I've no need otherwise. In fact, I think my going for any other reasons just presents a false hope to others.

 

I know this seems like I'm cold, but I come from a close family, and this is actually difficult for me to turn them down but I've got to be true to myself first and foremost and I think a truly close family will understand this. It doesn't mean they will be "yes men" about it but it does mean they will do their best. We're doing our best. If your family cannot understand then that's too bad. But maybe you're not giving them a chance since you're not really being honest with anyone including yourself? Maybe give that a try and they will surprise you?

 

mwc

[Panther]

Is it that you are truly confused of what you believe (which is ok too) or that you just don't feel comfortable coming out with it in front of the family? I would think really hard about the answer and then do what is true for you.

It's ok to be in an "in-between" place too. A lot of us spent time there, which we needed to do.

A conversion takes time and the phases that you go through in the mean time are necessary to get where you are going.

Peace!

[eel_shepherd]

"...I really can't stand religion and probably do not believe in god, however I was very bothered by this exchange. Comments?..."

 

Could this be about nostalgia? (from the Greek words for "home" and "pain") Blood's thicker than water, and the members of a person's family can push his/her buttons better than anyone else. Could it be that you, and your brother for that matter, remember "a better time" from your youth, during your Xtian period, and that it isn't the Xtianity per se that's the issue, but the feeling of family, and the times, that accompanied it?

 

In any event, life isn't one episode long, and this exchange with your brother won't be so wounding, with the passage of time. One thing is for certain, and that is that no-one at all will be better off for you going along with the church crowd for the sake of keeping up appearances. Your family members are adults, and they will just have to do the adult thing with the new reality about you.

[garrisonjj]

"...I really can't stand religion and probably do not believe in god, however I was very bothered by this exchange. Comments?..."

 

Could this be about nostalgia? (from the Greek words for "home" and "pain") Blood's thicker than water, and the members of a person's family can push his/her buttons better than anyone else. Could it be that you, and your brother for that matter, remember "a better time" from your youth, during your Xtian period, and that it isn't the Xtianity per se that's the issue, but the feeling of family, and the times, that accompanied it?

 

In any event, life isn't one episode long, and this exchange with your brother won't be so wounding, with the passage of time. One thing is for certain, and that is that no-one at all will be better off for you going along with the church crowd for the sake of keeping up appearances. Your family members are adults, and they will just have to do the adult thing with the new reality about you.

 

 

Yes, I believe I was bothered by the fact that I said yes just to appease him. I came from an extremely religious home and the "What would mom think?" concept what was really behind brother's question. Its just this type of guilt the church drives on in order to keep members subservient lambs.

Keep in mind I am 49 years old, not some confused teenager, and the guilt still shows its ugly head. Anyway, I can't stand religion on the inside, but I was always one to go along with the crowd in order to keep the peace. This dissonance is uncomfortable, but thats the way I am. Thanks for the responses.