Firearms/self Defense Discussion

[♦ nivek ♦]

Well, that was refreshing... deep reasoned argument.... now, I regard Dev as the fruit cake that won't leave, but for a Board moderator to rant like that at a user is unprofessional and just gives the impression that you personally spend a lot of your time waiting for the ZOG and NWO to break into your compound while listening to Prussian Blue and eating beans out of a can...

 

Seems to me that you should quit measuring your dick, reel you neck in, and behave like a professional.

 

Interesting that I should post to your specifications Gramps. Simply put I don't particularly care if my stylr, or lack of it bothers you.

 

If what and how my posts are laid out in this thread are bothersome to you, feel free to drop a line to the Boss and let him know my actions are unacceptable.

 

kL

[Grandpa Harley]

I think he knows your an asshole... you're an asshole I frequently agree with. However when you ask for civility then behave like a dumb ass redneck, you can expect me to comment. either abide by your own fucking rules or get someone who can so you can behave like a troll... This is like a fucking evangelists board at times.

 

Having two notifications of your blindingly lovely pose, ~I assume you deleted it then decided, that since it had gone out you'd best repost... problems? It's the edit button...

[Grandpa Harley]

I can see you're going to be fun...

[♦ nivek ♦]

Grandpa Harley:

I think you wrote, so what aren't you following? IT sounds like a re-phrase of 'acceptable losses'.

 

Not at all. I would that folks work on being aware and awake, lessing their chances of being victims of bad circumstance and mad actors. We all are responsible for taking care of ourselves and doing what we can to lessen the chance to be an "acceptable loss".

 

kFL

[Amanda]

Well, that was refreshing... deep reasoned argument.... now, I regard Dev as the fruit cake that won't leave, but for a Board moderator to rant like that at a user is unprofessional and just gives the impression that you personally spend a lot of your time waiting for the ZOG and NWO to break into your compound while listening to Prussian Blue and eating beans out of a can...

 

Seems to me that you should quit measuring your dick, reel you neck in, and behave like a professional.

 

Grandpa Harley... Perhaps Nivek is a moderator because he has earned an immense amount of respect by those of us on this site to appreciate his decisions? You, being a new comer might sit back and understand the big picture better, that surfaces with time on here. Nivek and I often have contention with each other's POV, however, I've always been addressed by him in a respectful manner... and I know why.

 

Not to say that some people on this site haven't addressed me in the same tone as you accuse Nivek has here. I'm willing to wager that his response was a favor, if you see that or not. It may be his way of prompting someone to read it all closer before jumping into a statement to him that disregards half his posts on here. Sometimes I got a slap in the face on here, and I'm glad they did it. Especially the time I was insisting there may have been a real temple of babel. I don't like to have to admit stuff like that, but hey... a slap in the face brought me around.

 

Grandpa Harley, my suggestion to you... for what it's worth... sit back, relax, and watch a master at work. I suspect he said that to the poster to HELP him without babying him, because he thinks he's strong enough to take it... that's all. IMO, a guest who said some of the things in your post would apologize to a family member of the house they are visiting... but we all know how much my opinion is worth.

[Grandpa Harley]

Then my comment about coming across as a dumb red neck can be regarded in the same tone...

 

Remember the days when a fellow Christian would rip you an other asshole 'with love'?

[Grandpa Harley]

Grandpa Harley:

I think you wrote, so what aren't you following? IT sounds like a re-phrase of 'acceptable losses'.

 

Not at all. I would that folks work on being aware and awake, lessing their chances of being victims of bad circumstance and mad actors. We all are responsible for taking care of ourselves and doing what we can to lessen the chance to be an "acceptable loss".

 

kFL

I thought as much, and I agree... it was just an ambiguous phrase that *could* have been read the way I suggested. The subject is contentious enough without opening it to that sort of misinterpretation (An old friend of mine who's a Roman Priest reckons I should have been a Jesuit)

[♦ nivek ♦]

I think he knows your an asshole... you're an asshole I frequently agree with. However when you ask for civility then behave like a dumb ass redneck, you can expect me to comment. either abide by your own fucking rules or get someone who can so you can behave like a troll... This is like a fucking evangelists board at times.

 

Having two notifications of your blindingly lovely pose, ~I assume you deleted it then decided, that since it had gone out you'd best repost... problems? It's the edit button...

 

Guess I could tell you in return to do something like "reel your dick in, this isn't a pissing contest". Made a mistake, punched incorrect button when editing one of my more glaring spelling errors out of original post. Corrected same, killed duplicate post.

Don't as yet know what the problem is, but again, it isn't important to me to raise hell with you or anyone else, save for folks who just have to be strident little PIA's.

Those posts again are returned with scorn and sarcasm as thick as I can e.paint it on the post.

 

That Gramps, here and everywhere else on Net and in meat.space is me.

 

kFL

[Grandpa Harley]

I think he knows your an asshole... you're an asshole I frequently agree with. However when you ask for civility then behave like a dumb ass redneck, you can expect me to comment. either abide by your own fucking rules or get someone who can so you can behave like a troll... This is like a fucking evangelists board at times.

 

Having two notifications of your blindingly lovely pose, ~I assume you deleted it then decided, that since it had gone out you'd best repost... problems? It's the edit button...

 

Guess I could tell you in return to do something like "reel your dick in, this isn't a pissing contest". Made a mistake, punched incorrect button when editing one of my more glaring spelling errors out of original post. Corrected same, killed duplicate post.

Don't as yet know what the problem is, but again, it isn't important to me to raise hell with you or anyone else, save for folks who just have to be strident little PIA's.

Those posts again are returned with scorn and sarcasm as thick as I can e.paint it on the post.

 

That Gramps, here and everywhere else on Net and in meat.space is me.

 

kFL

Keeping dragging it up means it is a pissing contest at least on one side of the Atlantic...

 

Now we can either keep rubbing each other's rhubarb or we can get on with the matter at hand. I took your advice and flagged our little contre temps to our esteemed host... Meanwhile gun control in a civil manner? IF you can't keep it civil what hopes for us poor saps in the Soviet European Union?

[Devilin]

Poor Dev.. Hiding in his cave, protected by the lack of anything sharp, blunt, large, threatening or dangerous. Must not want to get out much from his safe haven, out into a world of folks who will use any tool they can get hands on to deliver whatever message or threat they need.

 

I have lived and worked in all the major cities in England,and there isn't one that I haven't walked the streets at night armed with nothing more dangerous than a cigarette and a lighter."folks who will use any tool they can get hands on to deliver whatever message or threat they need"although I don't doubt they're are nasty people out there,but the statistics say I'll probably never encounter them. and unsurprisingly I've never encounted them. should I live in perpetual fear just in case ? should I arm myself for a situation that will probably never happen. no I choose not to live in perpetual fear. unlike you I am rational enough not to believe the media hype

 

Dev's missed the posts leading to professor Gary Kleck's work, posts about the rising use of assorted weapons including firearms in the Emerald Isles, and he has sooOoooOoooOO chosen to forget that murderes are usually so because they choose to be, noting well wishing or legislative can fix.

 

Indeed I choose not to be influence by scare mongers. as I know the amount of violent crimes in the Emerald Isles has been falling ever since Victorian times.I also know that most murderes are committed by people that intimately know their victim usually family members. again I am not driven by irrational fear of the very very unlikely

 

Dev also forgets that in all civillizied countries that murder, however committed is against the law(s) already.

Did suggest it wasn't ?

 

VT is a prime example of "Murder by Government", a sorry assed place to have been. I won't recite the pages of information Dev hasn't (has choose not to read, or has and ignored the peer reviewed evidence and research done) read, he can do his own homework, find some education and enlightenment to help cure his rampant hoplophobia, but in the firearms discussions there is enough to read to show the absolute willing ignorance of his lack-of position.

? huh although I'm sure in your heightened state of irrational fear this actually means something.could you calm your self down enough to explain it to people that aren't quaking with fare ?

 

Bleeeeeeeeat on Dev. Handguns are still being used as criminals tools all over the UK, despite your thinking otherwise. criminals can and do obtain them, use them, and will contine to do so despite the surveilliance society and cameras your growing Police State has.

And the chances of me actually seeing a criminal with a gun in England ? please ......... well maybe on TV big Brother is ever watchful but that's another thread

The folks in the UK who have need for firearms are disallowed them by your elected leaders

Nobody in the United Kingdom needs a firearms. and so speaks the majority of people in England.

 

You've got no *legs* to stand on this discussion this thread with that line of thought Devvie. Your arguments are already blown the fuck away by Kleck and others studying the "Gun Problems".

 

blown away by fear mongers. indeed lets forget about the science and the facts ..... please (I'm being sarcastic)

[♦ nivek ♦]

Amanda,

 

My younger sister is a "head case", inheriting the madness that haunts my maternal line. Was incarcerated for armed bank robbery, Interstate Flight, whole dishwashing list of charges. While in the klink, she recieved the mental health care they afforded and medications perscripted "cleaned her up".

 

She got out, hooked up with one more of a string of gentlemen of low caliber and found herself out of meds, on the Wanted list again, and trying to hang out at my place. I then lived in a very rural Eastern Washington town, you'd have to find a mud puddle to call it a wide spot on road. Wasn't told of her immediate problems, and not knowing she was off her meds, the next three months were a bizzare turn of events.

 

Keeping things topical, all firearms, all sharps, anything that she could use to poke, bend, strike, damage or steal was placed elsewhere including the guns and ammo. She had a cog off her timing gear somewhere and would sit in her plainly adorned room all day only to come out once a day to scream at the squirrels running in the spruce trees.

Things ended abruptly when she just simply went away. She had no wheels, next town was 25 miles, and any city was hundreds of miles distant. Next I heard of her, she had been picked up in Oregon while visiting our Dad. FBI had been watching his place waiting for her..

 

Several years later after her release on GB and mental health sanitation, she lives in a group home, watched, monitored and medicated to the gills. She'll never be "productive", she's not safe to be in the outside world alone, and where not violent herself, she is a happy participant in criminal adventures.

 

I've had "close crazy".

 

Help manage a Trust now. Am one of the three person Board appointed by friends and court for a friend who went off the very deep end. No harm done, however he was found with his car, loaded with cans of gasoline, and fused with model rocket igniters wired into his ciggabutt lighter. He stated "Those fucking kids in the school yard were driving him CRAZY!" Was middle of winter and AFAIK no kids had been out for at least weeks.

 

I was picked for the Board as I have some understanding of firearms and values. The Doc had a small locker of NFA (National Fireams Act, Class-3 in uS) full auto and Any Other Weapons he had bought over the years. He's been Lautenburged, lost his Rights via the Courts for life...

 

Before the Doc's final mission I was his right hand, friend, and confidant. In time he did the going.crazy.reclusive things, including blocking and shutting out all his friends. Lots of things that could be recited here, but in the end before his commital we watched him implode.

 

Cause? Don't know. His potential act of suicide and homocide was horrorific to consider "what if?".

 

I am not a clinical worker, however both of the above examples make me more sure that the extreme end of *nuts* need set aside in a place they are safe and away from the rest of the world. Neither the Doc or my sis are *evil*, or in lucid moments *bad people*, however whatever chemical combinations are crossed, or whatever wiring is misplaced, until it can be worked out they would be a danger to the rest of society.

 

22 years in EMS, I've hauled them all. Jesus, God, Bubba and Budda, Hairey Khritcher, and the lady who insisted her piss was "holy water" and insisted on trying to prove it...

Dunno Amanda.. Helping these folks back to more normal is like 1000000000 steps above my paygrade.

 

kL

[Grandpa Harley]

And even with all the money in the world, sometimes the well is too deep and the frog too damaged to help.

 

Sorry completely off topic.

[Ramen666]

I can end the argument once and for all.

 

This whole argument is kind of silly in the end because the way I have summarized both threads. Nivek, and other users want to keep their guns, no stricter laws, nothing to prevent people from kuje Cho getting them, some believe (Nivek) that the government is out to get all their guns and freedoms. Nothing is going to stop them, they are going to fight to the end because they live in fear. They want protection but do not want protection from the actual weapons that are killing people.

 

The other side ( the ones that thinks that their needs to be stricter laws) is considered irational because we are afraid of guns. ( That is what the one's the want guns think.) We believe guns do kill people and have caused a reasonable part of damage and have killed people. These people belive the guns don't kill people. people kill people is absurb. Guns are weapons in the end meant to kill...

 

In the end the side that wants guns, in schools everywhere have this thing saying that we irrational and does not make since. But in the end we can accuse the people that they have a fear, irrational. Because that is what it is, I live in a bad part of town (honestly) but I don't hide in my house thinking the government is out to get you and your rights. I call that is being just as much irrational as accsuing people against guns.

[Ramen666]

Whoops it posted twice for some reason....

[Grandpa Harley]

and I got FIVE notifications!...

[♦ nivek ♦]

I can end the argument once and for all.

 

Go for it. This discussion has been going on at least since 1934 in uS.

 

This whole argument is kind of silly in the end because the way I have summarized both threads.

 

Not an argument Ramen, is a discussion, covering many facets of problems that are not amiable to pat, simplistic answers.

No one is going to pull slips from the Easy Answer Jar and repair everything with quick fixes.

 

Nivek, and other users want to keep their guns, no stricter laws, nothing to prevent people from Cho getting them,

 

Ramen you are well and free to state any opinion you care to. Please discontinue to put words in my mouth, as I have enough of my own and most of my surviving toes in there.

 

some believe (Nivek) that the government is out to get all their guns and freedoms.

 

What I believe and practice is a touch more complicated than the "Ramen's Easy Bake Answer" will provide for. Feel free to read back and find the context and connections.

 

Nothing is going to stop them, they are going to fight to the end because they live in fear.

 

Right on first, wrong on second. I fear little anymore, having faced mine demons and ghosts. My fear is an ill-informed electorate in less than a human-time generation being so ignorant of their roots and Rights that they vote themselves into bondage.

 

The other side ( the ones that thinks that their needs to be stricter laws) is considered irational because we are afraid of guns. ( That is what the one's the want guns think.) We believe guns do kill people and have caused a reasonable part of damage.

 

Have all the laws you want Ramen. You and those who think as you do about firearms are not welcome to speak for me and mine, nor allowed to vote away any Constitutional Right because it fits your particular popular belief at the time.

Funny, if a fiream did not work, some lawyer would sue the manufacturer for building a something that did not work as designed.

 

Ramen, you have managed to excape reading every post where I have advocated training and education for firearms holders.

It seems to have slipped your attention that I have on demand credentials provable for my bonafides in Instruction.

I've worked three decades with people empowering them to know what they have and how to use them safely.

 

Lotta things AND guns kill people, but I don't see a line of folks up for banning ladders, 5 gallon buckets, swimming pools, booze and smokes.

Don't see 'Mothers Against Steak Knives' picketing Washington.

Have yet to see 'Drunks Against Package Stores' protesting.

 

People die in a hellova lotta creative ways, firearms one of the less delicate.

 

In the end the side that wants guns, in schools everywhere have this thing saying that we irrational and does not make since.

 

This I cannot translate Ramen into Nivekgrish.

 

But in the end we can accuse the people that they have a fear, irrational. Because that is what it is, I live in a bad part of town (honestly) but I don't hide in my house thinking the government is out to get you and your rights.

 

What you do in your home is your business.

I don't sit in mine worrying about anything political. My shoe leather time is spent politicing, moving information to my elected public servants, and working on the 'net. The Goobers know who and where I am at, I sure barb them in the ass as often as I can. Refuse to be a quiet little tax paying unit/Prole when I have the opportunity to influence policies and laws. I may, no am, an asshole, and a damn GOOD humanoid anus I am..

 

 

I call that is being just as much irrational as accsuing people against guns.

 

I've never been accused of being *rational* when it comes to defending the Bill of Rights against those who would wish give those Rights away for "what feels good". Liberty takes vigilance and patience, not simplistic fixes and easily heard words that appeal to soft emotions.

 

I prefer to be thought of as a *nut* because I prefer the words of the Founders to the weasel words of todays modern society.

 

If that makes me ir-rational, so be it.

 

kFL

[Ramen666]

Ramen you are well and free to state any opinion you care to. Please discontinue to put words in my mouth, as I have enough of my own and most of my surviving toes in there.

 

But you have you stated over and over you do not want stricter laws on guns. You have said that yourself many times in the last thread That is where the whole argument started when I got involved in that thread.

 

 

What I believe and practice is a touch more complicated than the "Ramen's Easy Bake Answer" will provide for. Feel free to read back and find the context and connections.

 

I know what context you are talking about I am summarizing and parpahrasing but you do act like the government is out to get you. I just don't have that fear and try not to live in fear. Come on Ramen's Easy Bake Answer? It is more like a Cup of Noodles.

 

Lotta things AND guns kill people, but I don't see a line of folks up for banning ladders, 5 gallon buckets, swimming pools, booze and smokes.

Don't see 'Mothers Against Steak Knives' picketing Washington.

Have yet to see 'Drunks Against Package Stores' protesting.

 

People die in a hellova lotta creative ways, firearms one of the less delicate.

 

There is a big difference in those though and I believe you know it. Items that you suggested since we are on the topics a recent news story that is happening as we have this disccussion: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18384740/

 

This I cannot translate Ramen into Nivekgrish.

 

I am saying both sides are being irational realistically and that nothing can be done.

[Ramen666]

Ramen,

 

At a young age you think you have the answers to all the worlds problems,...that is ok all of us older folks were like that once. The principle of free society is not trusthing the government because it in and of itself is made up of people who are corruptble and as we all know time and again, if government can be corrupt, they will be corrupted. In order to to keep a government at all levels accountable and not tyranical, the ability to enforce tyranny must be curbed. Now, as we all know, the main reason government has some control is because they have the bigger guns. But, if the citizens had no weapons, there would be no risk to the tyrants in government that they might be at risk for tyrannical acts. With armed citizens they stand a really high risk of suffering real loss to them personally. Thus a curb to their more base instincts. If you doubt me, please feel free to educate yourself with the following information:

 

This article is about a real situation that took place in my old state of Tennessee, it is real, nothing has been embellished nor changed. Please click on the link and read the whole story.

 

 

http://www.jpfo.org/athens.htm

 

Published in Guns & Ammo October 1995, pp. 50-51

 

On August 1-2, 1946, some Americans, brutalized by their county government, used armed force as a last resort to overturn it. These Americans wanted honest open elections. For years they had asked for state or federal election monitors to prevent vote fraud (forged ballots, secret ballot counts and intimidation by armed sheriff's deputies) by the local political boss. They got no help.

 

 

I like where this thread is going just because I am young, my posts all of a sudden become invalid. Nice one Burnedout. No where at all did I say I know everything, can solve the worlds problems, just putting words into my mouth right now arn't you. It sure must make you feel good about yourself and add to your argument. Just becasue I am young does not change the argument/discussion at all but talking down to me like I don't know what I am talking about really adds that self esteem you need to, defend your guns with all costs.

 

I am not going to live in fear from the government, my whole life that is irrational. I am sorry if that makes you feel bad and think I am just a sheep. The government is indeed corrupt and abusive but I am not going to live in fear thinking that they are always after me. I KNOW THE GOVERNMENT CAN BE FUCKED UP !! That is just as bad as being a Christian fearing for hell. I am sorry you people live in that kind of fear and I just don't want to live that way and be afraid the government is going to get me. I know plenty of people living the American dream without guns and living prertty damn happy.Go ahead be afraid your whole life on that. You arn't loosing your weapons anytime soon, trust me it won't happen in my lifetime or yours. All I want is stricter laws on the guns that is all not take them away so the wrong person won't get them legally.

 

The story I consider irrelevant to this argument at this time I am talking about NOW! I am talking about the VT shootings I am not talking about the past this is totally irrelevant to this disscussion.

[Ramen666]

I don't trust my governent, after what I have seen these last three years,I do not trust them one bit. BUT that does not mean I am going to hide in the corner with a pitchfork, gun or whatever waiting for them to bust my door down. I just think living that way is silly.

 

A Senator was shooting at you? WTF please tell me more on that I would like to know more about that...

[Ramen666]

Another comment to Nivek,

 

You've got no *legs* to stand on this discussion this thread with that line of thought Devvie. Your arguments are already blown the fuck away by Kleck and others studying the "Gun Problems".

 

I have a problem how you addressed Develin because their is something vary different that is being done here. It can be considered wrong. What you are doing is comparing another culture to your own. There is a term for this and here it is called

 

enthnocentrism: judging cultures by the standards of your own culture. (Cultural Anthropology, Miller,Barabara 2007)

 

Delvin lives in a culture were guns are not the norms, not everyone wants them but that is the norm for his culture and not the USA. I find that unfair to address him that way because he does after all live in a different culture than us Americans. Just a thought you can ignore me but there is a term for what you are doing.

[Piprus]

Another comment to Nivek,

 

You've got no *legs* to stand on this discussion this thread with that line of thought Devvie. Your arguments are already blown the fuck away by Kleck and others studying the "Gun Problems".

 

I have a problem how you addressed Develin because their is something vary different that is being done here. It can be considered wrong. What you are doing is comparing another culture to your own. There is a term for this and here it is called

 

enthnocentrism: judging cultures by the standards of your own culture. (Cultural Anthropology, Miller,Barabara 2007)

 

Delvin lives in a culture were guns are not the norms, not everyone wants them but that is the norm for his culture and not the USA. I find that unfair to address him that way because he does after all live in a different culture than us Americans. Just a thought you can ignore me but there is a term for what you are doing.

Uh...Devlin got what he asked for, Ramen, IMO. Look at his posts again, and you'll see his own ethnocentrism, in case you missed it the first time.

[Amanda]

Nivek, you obviously have had some people quite close to you struggle with mental illness. I will tell you, they are NOT having fun. Many disorders are known to have as much as a 10% success rate of committing suicide, and that is only amongst the ones that were fortunate enough to even be diagnosed! I still think there were indications when they were younger, but for whatever reason, we just attributed these symptoms to something else. We just hoped they would grow out of it... or at the very least we can look back and see a turning point in their lives. Early detection is the key, IMO. Some of them can come across as quite normal to most folks, as they can present an amazing fascade. So how are we going to make sure they don't get firearms?

 

I agree with Burned Out in that the right to own guns just seems like encouraging a healthy balance to at least our local government. Not that I'm afraid of my government, but I think it helps keep them honest. I suppose the older we get, the more articles we read of dishonest moves made by one of our police officers, or worse. Once I read where in Miami that there were 21 police officers, dressed in their uniforms, unloading the drugs from a boat. The only reason they got caught, is because another officer by some fluke was driving by there, and called in to say he was going to help with the bust at the shipyard. The station wasn't aware of a bust... and it went downhill from there, for those 21 officers and those involved in that drug shipment. Miami's chief of police just stated that for what the police officers had to do, for what they got paid, they had to take who they could. Also, now that they want to hire more border patrol, there is a real fear that there will be those hired that will be aiding and abedding the drug dealers. Just the other day, the police killed a completely innocent 90 year old lady by accident, thinking it was going to be a volatile drug bust. You just never know what is going to happen with the guy who is in a powerful position like that.

 

I think Canada seems to be a secure goverment, balanced, and it doesn't have guns. Probably England is like that too. It does seem to be the American mentality to have the right to bear arms, so that isn't going away... that's for sure. Anyway, how do we keep people that are mentally disturbed from getting a gun? Instruction and training isn't enough... and may make it worse.

[Taphophilia]

I'm just going to through this out here and this is from my own personal experince with the mentally ill and guns.

 

The mentally ill self medicate with drugs and alcohol and often do not have a driver's license because of this. I would think that if the DMV has deemed a person not stable enough to have a driver's license, they are unfit to own a firearm.

[Casey]

Anyway, how do we keep people that are mentally disturbed from getting a gun?

 

For that matter, how do we stop mentally disturbed people from obtaining jerry cans of petrol and styrofoam and a little liquid soap and thus making napalm? How do we stop 'em from logging onto the internet and getting enough information to make a bomb? Or finding out enough about industrial sabotage to paralyse a large city? All this information has been around for years, ever since Churchill ordered SOE to "set Europe ablaze".

 

The only solution Government ever comes up with is "Ban this, ban that, ban some other damn thing!", or it's "Recruit more Police, give 'em more powers!" Or, "Restrict this, restrict that!" And the sheeple go along with it and wonder why they end up in a virtual dictatorship. Some classic examples of "reasonable restrictions" (I admit these have nothing to do with guns):

 

Because a woman contracted lung cancer through passive smoking and was successful in a lawsuit and because subsequently a faulty study was done which stated passive smoking was the cause of this and that, smoking was banned in bars where I live. Not content with that, the Government has also restricted smoking in outside areas. I have even seen outdoor benches bearing "No Smoking" signs. They could have been more honest and made the signs say, "Non Smokers Only", but that, I suppose, might have made some of the sheeple think of signs that used to say, "Whites only" or, "Not for Jews!" Look, if you're going to be biased against a certain section of the population, at least do it properly.

 

Recently, in order to get a mate out of a bad situation with his ex-missus, I purchased a half-share in his house. Now it is customary on the conclusion of such deals to go out for a drink. I asked for a double whisky, a decent four fingers, only to be told I couldn't have one because of some Government regulation intended to crack down on binge drinking! I had to buy two single shots and pour one glass into the other, all because some idiots can't hold their liquor. Well fine, but what did that have to do with me?

 

One last example. When I joined ARES (our Army Reserves) in the mid-Seventies we were told right from the start that if you were issued a rifle, that rifle was to be within arm's reach at all times, no exceptions. Eminently sensible, one would think. Thus, if you were in the back of a truck, your rifle was held upright between your knees. However by the Eighties, we were told to put the rifles under the seats. Why? So far as I know, simply so the public wouldn't be disturbed by seeing armed soldiers!

 

I could go on, but what's the point? We have allowed Governments to nickel and dime our old rights and freedoms (also known as liberty) to death.

Casey

[Amanda]

I tried to do a search for mental illness and violent crimes, and was surprised by the popular results. Most sites I encountered said that the mentally ill are far more likely to be victims! I decided to search to see if the closing of mental institutions by Reagan's admin. and the rise in firearm crimes correlated to each other, and found that firearm offenses have stabilized since 1988, except for one year it was way up, 1993. This was found at the Bureau of Justice Statistics found here.

 

Maybe the widespread media makes it appear there are more incidences than there really are, and of course our country seems to have more than perhaps England or Canada, but we have LOTS more people. Although England may seem safe, it would be more fair to compare all of Europe. We have some states that are surely safer than others, and the correlation may be more of a correlation between congestion and frustration.

 

Also, no offense to anyone here, yet I am pondering the influence of testosterone and the 'alpha' male syndrome in aggressive confrontation matters. The site here says there is a link to agressive women in prison and higher tosterone levels.

The study, published in the September-October issue of Psychosomatic Medicine, measured testosterone in 87 female inmates at a maximum security prison. Their criminal behavior was scored from court records, and their prison behavior was assessed from prison records and staff interviews.

 

Testosterone was found related both to the violence of the women's crimes and to the aggressive dominance of their behavior in prison. This finding was further supported by assessing how an inmate's age corresponded to her behavior and testosterone levels.

 

However testosterone in males seems to be more complicated when correlating it with violence. However, this study here says this:

Violence is a common feature of most societies. Statistically, we know that it's predominantly a male characteristic, particularly one of young males. In England and Wales more than 90 per cent of violent offenders are male, and half of those are aged between 17 and 24. So why are men prone to acts of violence?

It is beyond argument that men have more testosterone in their circulation than females and that men are more aggressive.

 

Typically, males produce about 25 times as much testosterone per day as females.

 

Male testosterone levels peak in the late teens and remain high until the mid-20s: precisely the time in which male aggressiveness and violence is most common.

Now what?