What If God Is Dead?

[Asimov]

I suppose maybe so. God is an abstract imaginary idea though. Specific context is kind of a misnomer with it. I suppose you could go with the literal bible version, or Allah, or any number of creators from all sorts of religions. Supreme Being means little more than the bigest stick on the block when it comes down to it. Besides, if God could die, why would he tell us?

 

Ok, but you lack any possible descriptive quality. You would accept a definition of God being a banana if someone said that they worshiped one, it seems.

 

If we start with the question "what would God be, necessarily, if he existed?" Then we must reject any notions of equivocation or arbitrary concepts.

 

Yes, as far as we know, the concept of God is abstract, but that abstract has to be sensible and reasonable.

 

If God did exist, I wouldn't view him as particularly honest, or caring.

 

Why?

[DarthOkkata]

I suppose maybe so. God is an abstract imaginary idea though. Specific context is kind of a misnomer with it. I suppose you could go with the literal bible version, or Allah, or any number of creators from all sorts of religions. Supreme Being means little more than the bigest stick on the block when it comes down to it. Besides, if God could die, why would he tell us?

 

Ok, but you lack any possible descriptive quality. You would accept a definition of God being a banana if someone said that they worshiped one, it seems.

 

If we start with the question "what would God be, necessarily, if he existed?" Then we must reject any notions of equivocation or arbitrary concepts.

 

Yes, as far as we know, the concept of God is abstract, but that abstract has to be sensible and reasonable.

 

A square circle is sensible and reasonable? It defies math and physics. Abstract ideas tend to be neither sensible or resonable. I don't view god as either in any context. He doesn't make sense.

 

Religious people seem to take that as proof of his existence for some odd reason. "He's mysterious, and we're too stupid to understand him..."

 

If God did exist, I wouldn't view him as particularly honest, or caring.

 

Why?

 

Well, the state of affairs in northern Africa, the mess in the middle east, North Korea in general, there are far too many nasty things in the world to support the idea of a 'kind and loving' all powerful entity.

 

I'm fortunate enough to live in a place where the world basically being good is an easy misconseption to have. The US is mild in the suffering department, and most of the people here don't realize just how lucky they are to be here, with no real idea of how bad it is elsewhere on the planet.

 

If for the sake of argument we're discussing the 'christian' god, the book of Job is another good example. Also, sending one's own son to be tortured and murdered, willingly and with forethought is a criminal and immoral offence. Especially for someone who is all powerful, and thus would have the resources for another method of eliminating sin.

 

Also, if you were pretending to be an all powerful immortal being, and you had one weakness that could destroy you, would -you- tell anyone about it?

 

I just don't see God as an honest being given the multitude of different versions of what he wants of us, if anything. He's either dishonest and pitting us against each other for his own amusement, or we're benath his notice, and doesn't care what we do.

 

Either way, I've no interest in worshiping, or praising him even if he does exist, by some distant chance.

[Asimov]

Well, the state of affairs in northern Africa, the mess in the middle east, North Korea in general, there are far too many nasty things in the world to support the idea of a 'kind and loving' all powerful entity.

 

Who says God has to be "kind" and "loving"?

 

If for the sake of argument we're discussing the 'christian' god, the book of Job is another good example. Also, sending one's own son to be tortured and murdered, willingly and with forethought is a criminal and immoral offence. Especially for someone who is all powerful, and thus would have the resources for another method of eliminating sin.

 

I never even brought up Christianity, DarthOkkata. We're talking about God as a specific concept, not a specific religious deity.

 

 

Also, if you were pretending to be an all powerful immortal being, and you had one weakness that could destroy you, would -you- tell anyone about it?

 

Destruction would imply that God is alive by our sense of the word, and is composed of things that can be destroyed. It is not applicable.

 

I just don't see God as an honest being given the multitude of different versions of what he wants of us, if anything. He's either dishonest and pitting us against each other for his own amusement, or we're benath his notice, and doesn't care what we do.

 

False dichotomy. And the latter idea has nothing to do with "honesty". Again you're looking at it from a religious viewpoint...the idea that God wants anything from us is what religion is about.

 

If this is an academic question (serious or not), then playing religious has no application. If God exists, we currently don't know the character of God, we can only speculate on what attributes he would necessarily have. Personal characteristics and relational characteristics have no context.

 

Either way, I've no interest in worshiping, or praising him even if he does exist, by some distant chance.

 

Maybe he doesn't want to be worshiped...that's a religious property.

[Grandpa Harley]

You've described Crom from Robert E. Howard's Conan...

[Evolution_beyond]

If God is defined as some kind of principle of the Universe that ties it all together and allows it to work the way it does - then such a thing cannot die until the Universe dies.

 

If God is defined in the Theistic way, as a person that exists outside of space and time and created the Universe and will judge his creation - then I can safely say that there is no way this entity could even exist in the first place. As a creation of the minds of men (and women) this kind of God dies all the time, whenever people wake up to the fact that he is not real.

[NotBlinded]

If God is defined as some kind of principle of the Universe that ties it all together and allows it to work the way it does - then such a thing cannot die until the Universe dies.

 

If God is defined in the Theistic way, as a person that exists outside of space and time and created the Universe and will judge his creation - then I can safely say that there is no way this entity could even exist in the first place. As a creation of the minds of men (and women) this kind of God dies all the time, whenever people wake up to the fact that he is not real.

Yes, I agree.

 

In the first instance, God is without definition. In the second instance, God is being defined into a specific concept.

 

Asimov, I am getting confused by your posts. It seems that you are saying that talking about God without a specific context is meaningless, but then you go on to say that we don't know the character of God and that personal and relational characteristics have no context.

 

Maybe you could help me out here? If you go on to apply what God's necessary characteristics are, isn't that the same as labeling them through the mind?

[Asimov]

Asimov, I am getting confused by your posts. It seems that you are saying that talking about God without a specific context is meaningless, but then you go on to say that we don't know the character of God and that personal and relational characteristics have no context.

 

It's the difference between what God is and who God is. Metaphysics is discussing what God is, religion is who God is.

[NotBlinded]

Asimov, I am getting confused by your posts. It seems that you are saying that talking about God without a specific context is meaningless, but then you go on to say that we don't know the character of God and that personal and relational characteristics have no context.

 

It's the difference between what God is and who God is. Metaphysics is discussing what God is, religion is who God is.

Thank you.

 

Damn, it's been Monday aaaaallllll day long!

[EdwardAbbey]

I've thought of an interesting question.

 

What if God, is dead?

 

Would we notice?

 

He's either dead, doesn't exist, or he's a giant farming ameboid predator. Yeah, the light is eternal paradise...come on in buddy.

 

God could not be dead because it never existed in the first place.

[DarthOkkata]

I've thought of an interesting question.

 

What if God, is dead?

 

Would we notice?

 

He's either dead, doesn't exist, or he's a giant farming ameboid predator. Yeah, the light is eternal paradise...come on in buddy.

 

God could not be dead because it never existed in the first place.

 

It's more a mental question that can help others see reasoning. Best used as a rebuttal to an unwanted spiritual council.

 

The most common rebuttle I've found is 'Anarchy'!

 

Asking them why just shuts them up, or forces them into an insanely implausable rant that can easily be torn to shreds.

 

Conversation is an art.

[Mike D]

I've thought of an interesting question.

 

What if God, is dead?

After I left Christianity I called myself a deist for a short time, I think because I couldn't totally let go of the idea of there being a god. Anyway what I eventually considered was the possibility that everything was created and that the "creator(s)" (call it/them "god" if you want) had since ceased to exist. From what I could see just about everything has a lifecycle, so it didn't seem out of the realm of possibility that a creator (or creators) could have a finite cycle of birth, life and death as well. I think the problem for me at that time was people using the terms "creator" and "god" interchangably, as if they had to be one and the same. I don't think just because a being created something, it should necessarily be called "god" and assigned god-like properties of all-knowing, all-powerful, eternal, etc. which is basically a human invention. A creator could just be a highly advanced, yet still finite, being.

[Lycorth]

If god's dead, then where the fuck do WE go when we die!

 

New Jersey. That way New York can smell us.

 

So that's why I felt like a walking corpse all those years when I lived in the Garden State...

[EdwardAbbey]

I've thought of an interesting question.

 

What if God, is dead?

 

Would we notice?

 

He's either dead, doesn't exist, or he's a giant farming ameboid predator. Yeah, the light is eternal paradise...come on in buddy.

 

God could not be dead because it never existed in the first place.

 

It's more a mental question that can help others see reasoning. Best used as a rebuttal to an unwanted spiritual council.

 

The most common rebuttle I've found is 'Anarchy'!

 

Asking them why just shuts them up, or forces them into an insanely implausable rant that can easily be torn to shreds.

 

Conversation is an art.

 

The God idea is still very much alive. It's quite apparent by all the religiious wars we have in the world. If the idea were really dead, the World Trade Center would still be standing. As far as a literal God, well, that's another story. If he does exist, he is living in extreme secrecy somewhere in a dark corner of the universe doing absolutely nothing - something that has all the characteristics of non-eixtence.

[Valgeir]

Well, to avoid the whole dichotomy of the death of a god (by the way, couldn't we be dealing with gods like those of the Greeks, rather than some sort of eternal deity?), what if this god was trying to erase itself? For purposes of argument I'll use the Judeo-Christian god as an example. Perhaps all of the events of the bible did occur (the book, of course, being inaccurately translated, hence the discrepancies) and upon witnessing the horrors committed in his name, the god decided to cover its tracks and encourage disbelief?

[Grandpa Harley]

Gottendammerung Great idea, should be done by more pantheons...

[BCRoyWatson]

What if Jesus, was just God's way of commiting suicide, and it worked?

 

Oh, man ... that would make the New Testament his suicide note ... but what really happened was something like, "I'm not only gonna check out, but I'm so pissed off at all of you that I'm gonna do one last big mind-fuck on the whole damned world."

 

Thanks! You just gave me another piece of ammo for my personal repertoire of ways to mess with fundies ...

[EdwardAbbey]

I've thought of an interesting question.

 

What if God, is dead?

 

Would we notice?

 

He's either dead, doesn't exist, or he's a giant farming ameboid predator. Yeah, the light is eternal paradise...come on in buddy.

 

God could not be dead because it never existed in the first place.

 

It's more a mental question that can help others see reasoning. Best used as a rebuttal to an unwanted spiritual council.

 

The most common rebuttle I've found is 'Anarchy'!

 

Asking them why just shuts them up, or forces them into an insanely implausable rant that can easily be torn to shreds.

 

Conversation is an art.

 

A famous freethinker from the past said if God didn't exist it would be necessary to invent one. Voltaire ; )

 

Isn't that the freakin truth eh? someone would invent a god any way. As a matter of fact, they would keep on doing what they are doing up to the present. Notice there are thousands of gods?

 

And they're all fake.