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What Is Charismatic; What Is Holiness


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This is carried over from the thread on denominations people are from.

 

Evergreen said:

 

Pentecostal. But not Holiness Pentecostal. Charismatic. Can Holiness Pents be charismatic, too?

 

I don't know but would be interested to learn more about this Holiness Pentecostal Church. What do they teach? What makes it a holiness church? I know there was a "holiness movement" in the 1800s, but I have been unable to figure out exactly why it was called that. I didn't know there were any churches anymore that went by that name. So yeah, if you or anyone else could tell me more about this I would be very happy to learn.

 

Also, I didn't know there were any Pentecostal Churches that weren't charismatic. I don't really know what others mean by charismatic. I've been getting the impression from this forum that charismatic means speaking in tongues, healing services, being slain in the spirit, "holy rollers," etc. Perhaps no one congregation practices all of these but I was of the impression that a church that practiced even one of these was charismatic.

 

I've seen reference to charismatic churches by a lot of people here. Can anyone help me out on this? Thank you.

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Nothing to do with the church, but here's a general answer to the title.

 

Charismatic: Being able to lie to people without them suspecting it.

 

Holiness: Following an immoral religion and being considered very moral.

 

An example of "charismatic" is this asshole. Although none of you would know him.

 

An example of "holy" people are these guys. We all know them.

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An ex-UPCI perspective:

 

Charismatics have the tounges and worship, but are Trinitarians without standards.

Holiness people are usually thought of as Pentecost, but with standards. (No tvs, movie-going...guys have to cut their hair, women can't cut theirs, and so on.)

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I really don't know anything about the Pentecostal Holiness Church, except that it is a Pentecostal denomination, and now what I've just skimmed in the Wiki article line, but in general, Pentecostals and Charismatics look an awful lot alike.

 

Wikipedia also has articles on Pentecostalism and the Charismatic movement which should provide a little additional information, respective links are:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentecostal

 

and

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charismatic_movement

 

Finally, an excerpt from the latter which talks about some of the differences:

 

Often confused with Pentecostalism (which it was inspired by), charismatic Christianity tends to differ in key aspects: most charismatics reject the preeminence given by Pentecostalism to glossolalia, reject what they consider to be legalism sometimes associated with Pentecostalism, and often stay in their existing denominations such as Roman Catholic Charismatics.

 

Because of the continual cross-over between Pentecostalism and the modern charismatic movement, it is increasingly difficult to speak of charismatics and Pentecostals as being part of separate movements. Yet because neither movement is monolithic, it is inaccurate to speak of them as being one movement. The difference is primarily one of origins. Beliefs of the two groups are very similar; each movement, however, is unique in its historical beginnings. Having been conceived in unique contexts, the difference may secondarily be described in terms of contrasting church cultures evidenced through each movement's manners and customs (i.e., worship styles, preaching styles, altar ministry methods). Until a more acceptable broad nomenclature is used, it needs to be understood that both movements share a great deal in common, and yet can sometimes be clearly differentiated.

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The holiness movement of the 1800's developed largely from Methodist thought. It stressed sanctification as a second work of grace. The goal was Christian Perfection; living without sin. Modern churches such as the Wesleyan Church, the Church of the Nazarene, and the Church of God (Anderson, IN) are representatives of this movement.

 

As the holiness churches came from the Methodist Church, Pentecostalism came from the holiness churches. Pentecostalism taught that second blessing was shown by speaking in tongues. Some Pentecostal denominations are The Church of God (Cleveland, TN), The Assemblies of God, and The Church of God in Christ.

 

The Charismatic Movement developed in the 1960's, when the belief in the gifts of the Spirit spread to the more traditional churches, such as Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Catholic, etc. It was not as dogmatic as Pentecostalism since it was trans-denominational, and it was the origin of modern praise/worship music. Eventually, new denominations were formed with the newer, freer worship style; such as Calvary Chapel and the Vineyard Movement.

 

Some online articles to look at:

American Holiness Movement

Some Holiness Churches

Pentecostalism General Information

Pentecostalism

Charismatic Movement

Wikipedia: Charismatic Movement

 

Ruby, the holiness movement even impacted some Mennonite churches.

"Holiness Movement" Global Anabaptist Mennonite Encyclopedia Online

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In my travels... I grew up Catholic (summarily rejected), got saved through traditional Baptists and soon got involved with a Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada church which became my home church.

 

During my time with the PAOC church(s) (moved cities) I also went to Catholic charismatics prayer group week nights with two other PAOC church friends of mine.

 

I also visited a friend's mainline protestant charismatic church bible study (I think Presbyterian) but didn't get the same distinct feel that the Catholics had.

 

I also had a co-worker who had catholic charismatic association and he had attended a large conclave of like minded Catholics in Montreal which had been partly televised back in the 80s. Not sure the pope attended that. Anyone remember?

 

My point? I have a varied background on these groups which I viewed with an open mind even though my PAOC brethern would have dismissed all of them as heretic and not real christians. Can I field some questions?

 

What I remarked about the Catholic charismatics was that they displayed the "fruits of the spirit" without the outrageous PAOC histrionics. They were not a judgemental group and they always had a sence of decorum / reverence that protestant fundamentalists clearly lack. In *many* ways, they were more godly than fundies.

 

I am not familiar with Pentecostal Holiness specifically.

 

To pick up on SNM's comment, I think it is very important that the charismatic people should not be automatically pegged as fundamentalists.

 

Perhaps that is true today but I don't think it was in the 80s.

 

Mongo

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Thanks for all the info and links. I'll have to somehow mark this thread so I can find it another day. I looked at the Mennonite Encyclopedia Online. There's a treasure trove of information out there. I got sidetracked into a discussion on neckties and dress-clothing for men. Maybe neckties are not important to anyone else here but the OOM church today has standards about it that I just took for granted. My personal interest has (for obvious reasons) focused more on women's clothing and the head-covering but I see there is a whole story behind the neckties standards that I didn't know a thing about. There is also reference to stiff collars, soft collars, lapels, shirts and suit coats with and without collars, etc. A man's neck must be about as important as a woman's head. :wicked:

 

I am also interested in how much the holiness movement has impacted, or been absorbed by, the Old Order Mennonites. For example, are OOM standards today re the neckties a reflection of it? Or do certain OOM positions today reflect a resistence to it? Has the present generation perhaps lost all track as to the origins of some of its standards to the extent that it mixes and matches across time, and today holds traditions that reject the holiness movement while at the same time also holding other positions that support it? In other words, are they for and against it all at the same time and don't know it? Maybe when I have time to read up on all those links I'll find some answers. Thanks again.

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