dr_funkenstein Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 While browsing myspace (which for some reason decides to throw ads at me related to Atheism, I'm guessing cause that's what I've put in as my religion) I saw an ad with a link that says: Atheism Against The Law? Scientific proof that atheism requires a belief in miracles. It links to a site called anointed-one.net - here's the link if you wanna check it out. It proceeds to posit a bunch of shit that the idiotic creators of this site somehow in their wishful thinking decided was scientific reasoning why atheism doesn't work. Scientifically. Or something. So let's go down the list of shit-for-brained ideas they've thrown in there and see what they have to say. They quote the law of conservation of mass and energy, and then say: If matter and energy cannot be created, how did they originate? Where did the entire physical universe come from? I can't believe it. They say that matter and universe can't be created. And their explanation for the origins of the universe is A FUCKING CREATOR!!???!!. Of course my response to this is that space/time/matter all came into existence together, originating out of a singularity. To talk about matter coming "from" somewhere is meaningless since there was nowhere from whence it might come. Some might posit the idea of an endless big bang-big crunch cycle that has always existed. So moving right along... they go on to self-contradict some more, talking about how god gets around this because Genesis says he created the world, then they randomly throw in this: Why couldn't the universe have always existed?Because nothing that has a beginning and an end could have always existed. In what sense does the idea of beginning and end apply to the universe? Argh these people make me want to vomit on my computer screen. That's just a nonsense so let's go on. They talk about how scientists pretty uniformly all accept the big bang as the best current model we have for the origins of the universe (props! Hey doesn't that tell you something?) then start talking about what they call The Law of Entropy, by which I assume they're referring to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Then they say that some people argue that the universe is an open system and so this law cannot be applied to it. If the universe is "all matter and energy", how could it be an open system?If the universe is everything, how can there be something else out there to provide more matter and energy? THE UNIVERSE IS A CLOSED SYSTEM! How can anything possibly be outside the universe in order for the universe to exchange heat with it? The universe is defined as all that exists! Bah! All the matter and energy that has ever existed has always existed as long as the universe itself has existed, which - for all intents and purposes - is forever, since time did not exist before the big bang. Anyways they go on with more crap but I can't be arsed talking about it anymore because I'm liable to become rabid. Fundies say the darndest things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Delusion. Just delusion. Deluded people will try their best to explain there delusion as if they were real, forgetting that they have to in fact prove that what they say is not delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Jeezuz Doc.. Put a "I oughta brake for the headache that website gave me!" warning on that URL.. That hurts.. Just to... read it... kL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I agree... headache! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 "THE UNIVERSE IS A CLOSED SYSTEM! How can anything possibly be outside the universe in order for the universe to exchange heat with it? The universe is defined as all that exists! Bah! All the matter and energy that has ever existed has always existed as long as the universe itself has existed, which - for all intents and purposes - is forever, since time did not exist before the big bang." As I understand it, the 'fully closed' model would mean that gravity would be a force as powerful as the strong and weak nuclear forces. I.E. if one jumped off a building one would rip a hole in the earth on the way to the core... In our universe, gravity is pretty weak (nuclear bonding stops us ripping holes, even with a fair old speed behind us). It is assumed, therefore that gravity is acting 'outside' normal space time... but the question then hangs 'into what?' the only answer at the moment is "somewhere else, not here..." hence M-Theory... and the big flying membranes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thompson Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I can't believe it. They say that matter and universe can't be created. And their explanation for the origins of the universe is A FUCKING CREATOR!!???!!. Yes... much like their arguement that the universe can't "just exist" so therefore it must be created by GOD... who "just exists". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 and they had the GALL to use the 'Book of British Smiles' on The Simpsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thompson Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 But you have to admit that that is one sexy beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 you could sliiiiiide into the gap in his teeth as his tongue inscribed a caduceus.... hmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thompson Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Congrats Gramps. That's the first time I've ever had to look something up since I've been on this site. Caduceus: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_funkenstein Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 "THE UNIVERSE IS A CLOSED SYSTEM! How can anything possibly be outside the universe in order for the universe to exchange heat with it? The universe is defined as all that exists! Bah! All the matter and energy that has ever existed has always existed as long as the universe itself has existed, which - for all intents and purposes - is forever, since time did not exist before the big bang." As I understand it, the 'fully closed' model would mean that gravity would be a force as powerful as the strong and weak nuclear forces. I.E. if one jumped off a building one would rip a hole in the earth on the way to the core... In our universe, gravity is pretty weak (nuclear bonding stops us ripping holes, even with a fair old speed behind us). It is assumed, therefore that gravity is acting 'outside' normal space time... but the question then hangs 'into what?' the only answer at the moment is "somewhere else, not here..." hence M-Theory... and the big flying membranes Forgive me if what I'm about to say is completely inspired by ignorance. But I never said the universe was defined as "normal space time", merely that it is the set of all that exists. So if something exists outside normal space time, then by the definition we've given the universe - it still exists within the universe. Doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I'm not sure I can decode the grammar at the end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Congrats Gramps. That's the first time I've ever had to look something up since I've been on this site. Caduceus: I once dated a girl who could more or less inscribe that pattern with the tip of her tongue... So many happy memories.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thompson Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I'm not sure I can decode the grammar at the end... ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Gary Thompson said:(Grandpa Harley @ May 4 2007, 02:52 AM) I'm not sure I can decode the grammar at the end... ditto Is this the part you're asking about? Forgive me if what I'm about to say is completely inspired by ignorance. But I never said the universe was defined as "normal space time", merely that it is the set of all that exists. So if something exists outside normal space time, then by the definition we've given the universe - it still exists within the universe. Doesn't it? I think he's saying that the definitions given for the universe posit it as existing inside the universe. And that is just plain ridiculous. The universe can't exist inside the universe. We cannot even imagine what the parameters of the universe are. I understand, though, from a very different source, that multiverses (as opposed to universe=one universe) are being posited now. No god, though, for those people. So genesis doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 About atheism being against the law. Yeah, I read something on here somewhere, or maybe something that was linked. Some of the original 13 Colonies of the USA have deep within their constitution (or whatever) laws prohibiting atheism. I'm sure it was something someone copied or linked with this site that is solid law, not just fluff someone made up. I wish I could remember enough of the title to do a search of this forum. Maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about? Check out the laws for states like Maryland or Pennsylvania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_funkenstein Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 It's not hard. I'm saying that the universe does not necessarily have to equal space-time. The universe is simply defined as everything. By that definition, if something exists outside of space-time, then it must still reside within the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_funkenstein Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 About atheism being against the law. Yeah, I read something on here somewhere, or maybe something that was linked. Some of the original 13 Colonies of the USA have deep within their constitution (or whatever) laws prohibiting atheism. I'm sure it was something someone copied or linked with this site that is solid law, not just fluff someone made up. I wish I could remember enough of the title to do a search of this forum. Maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about? Check out the laws for states like Maryland or Pennsylvania. The page I link to in the OP talks about atheism violating certain scientific laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 It's not hard. I'm saying that the universe does not necessarily have to equal space-time. The universe is simply defined as everything. By that definition, if something exists outside of space-time, then it must still reside within the universe. No... with due respect, it's gibberish... But then what does that gimp Hawking know, swanning around in his motorised chair, sounding like a Dalek and getting zero G trips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thompson Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 But then what does that gimp Hawking know, swanning around in his motorised chair, sounding like a Dalek and getting zero G trips? Ahhh. Weak dude. Don't make fun of handicapped people like that... they'll use their super powers to kick your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I only mock the mentally disabled... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thompson Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I only mock the mentally disabled... Don't forget to read the caption. Unfortunately I don't know who the author is but it's taken from Ucyclopedia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I know the feeling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankey Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 It's not hard. I'm saying that the universe does not necessarily have to equal space-time. The universe is simply defined as everything. By that definition, if something exists outside of space-time, then it must still reside within the universe. Maybe space-time as well as matter and energy existed before our universe. In some very weird way. Matter and energy are not created or destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Did anyone read that sites section on those who mock the website. I bet he considers all forms of criticism as mockery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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