Guest Geese Aplenty Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 At apologetics.org, I'm trying to demonstrate to theistic evolutionists that five confirmed mass extinctions in earth's history indicates a lack of benevolence on the part of the Xian deity. In other words, it seems to counter His attributes of love, benevolence, hatred of pain and suffering, etc. I thought it was a good question because it shows that their God gets pissed at things (animals, protohumans) that clearly have no capacity for sin. It's got them in quite a lather. They think they have me cornered because, admittedly, it is an unusual question. Do I have a point here? How can their Yahwah be understood as loving when we know such things have happened in earth's history? I just don't find a God that invented predation and great violence that appealing--especially when this must have happened pre-Fall. Here is the thread. http://www.apologetics.org/cslewis/viewtop...asc&start=0 I need help with biblical verses and whatnot. I think they are trying to hoodwink me in typical evangelical fashion. Maddening! Can someone tag team with me here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOkkata Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 At apologetics.org, I'm trying to demonstrate to theistic evolutionists that five confirmed mass extinctions in earth's history indicates a lack of benevolence on the part of the Xian deity. In other words, it seems to counter His attributes of love, benevolence, hatred of pain and suffering, etc. I thought it was a good question because it shows that their God gets pissed at things (animals, protohumans) that clearly have no capacity for sin. It's got them in quite a lather. They think they have me cornered because, admittedly, it is an unusual question. Do I have a point here? How can their Yahwah be understood as loving when we know such things have happened in earth's history? I just don't find a God that invented predation and great violence that appealing--especially when this must have happened pre-Fall. Here is the thread. http://www.apologetics.org/cslewis/viewtop...asc&start=0 I need help with biblical verses and whatnot. I think they are trying to hoodwink me in typical evangelical fashion. Maddening! Can someone tag team with me here? Well you've got to join their site to do it, and it requires approval. So it may take a bit of time before anyone can help you out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Geese Aplenty Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 At apologetics.org, I'm trying to demonstrate to theistic evolutionists that five confirmed mass extinctions in earth's history indicates a lack of benevolence on the part of the Xian deity. In other words, it seems to counter His attributes of love, benevolence, hatred of pain and suffering, etc. I thought it was a good question because it shows that their God gets pissed at things (animals, protohumans) that clearly have no capacity for sin. It's got them in quite a lather. They think they have me cornered because, admittedly, it is an unusual question. Do I have a point here? How can their Yahwah be understood as loving when we know such things have happened in earth's history? I just don't find a God that invented predation and great violence that appealing--especially when this must have happened pre-Fall. Here is the thread. http://www.apologetics.org/cslewis/viewtop...asc&start=0 I need help with biblical verses and whatnot. I think they are trying to hoodwink me in typical evangelical fashion. Maddening! Can someone tag team with me here? Well you've got to join their site to do it, and it requires approval. So it may take a bit of time before anyone can help you out here. Yeah it's kind of a commitment, Darth. But it's worth it to make these guys stammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I guess you're Ophir. I read the entire thread. I have never before heard about extinctions of the earth or its populations so I cannot comment on that. I am not quite sure why you don't just give them a few verses from the Bible to show that the Bible says that God is benevolent. That seems to be their hang-up--you're making statements without backing them up and they want to see support for your statements. I think that's decent. Here are a few verses about God's love or benevolence. God is love is one. That is somewhere in one of the John books but I don't know which one--if it's in the Gospel of John or in one of the Epistles. If you go to Psalms you can find all amounts of verses that praise God. I understand the praises are for his benevolence, etc. Psalm 118 repeats over and over: for his mercy endureth forever. That sounds pretty benevolent to me. There's lots and lots of others but you might have to read a bit to locate them because I don't know off the top of my head where they are. In case you don't have a Bible handy, I think at http://www.crosswalk.com/ you can find several versions plus study aids. I realize this isn't exactly what you're asking for but it's the best I can do. From that one thread, Apologetics.org does not look like the kind of site I want to join. Folks don't seem terribly intelligent. I like it here. All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I checked crosswalk.com just now. On the left side there is a block for "Search the Bible." You can choose a translation and do a keyword search. On the right hand-side there is a link for Bibles.com. So if one site doesn't have what you need, maybe another one does. I don't think I need mention that you have to wade through all kinds of evangelical stuff to get at the Bibles but it might be worth it for your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_funkenstein Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Personally, I don't even bother debating with xians, cause all they're gonna do is point to the paradox that we mere humans can't understand of god's nature being both of justice and of mercy. When you're debating an opponent that doesn't follow the rules of logic, they just end up moving the goalposts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I guess you're Ophir. I read the entire thread. I have never before heard about extinctions of the earth or its populations so I cannot comment on that. I am not quite sure why you don't just give them a few verses from the Bible to show that the Bible says that God is benevolent. That seems to be their hang-up--you're making statements without backing them up and they want to see support for your statements. I think that's decent. Here are a few verses about God's love or benevolence. God is love is one. That is somewhere in one of the John books but I don't know which one--if it's in the Gospel of John or in one of the Epistles. If you go to Psalms you can find all amounts of verses that praise God. I understand the praises are for his benevolence, etc. Psalm 118 repeats over and over: for his mercy endureth forever. That sounds pretty benevolent to me. There's lots and lots of others but you might have to read a bit to locate them because I don't know off the top of my head where they are. In case you don't have a Bible handy, I think at http://www.crosswalk.com/ you can find several versions plus study aids. I realize this isn't exactly what you're asking for but it's the best I can do. From that one thread, Apologetics.org does not look like the kind of site I want to join. Folks don't seem terribly intelligent. I like it here. All the best. Extinctions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Personally, I don't even bother debating with xians, cause all they're gonna do is point to the paradox that we mere humans can't understand of god's nature being both of justice and of mercy. When you're debating an opponent that doesn't follow the rules of logic, they just end up moving the goalposts. They not only move the goalposts, they change the shape of the ball, and, if you keep avoiding being corralled, they end up handing you a javelin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 And word to the wise... drop the 'Chi' crap... if you're going to get into a pissing contest on their territory, don't give them the opportunity to go .................GRAMMAR ERROR!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOkkata Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Yeah it's kind of a commitment, Darth. But it's worth it to make these guys stammer. Well, I tried, but it seems they don't want me. I guess they've reached the legal limit on Atheist on their site. Heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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