Mongo Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 The question of Satan's rebellion against god has always puzzled me. Sure... you and I don't have fire side chats with god like Satan. We don't see him face to face like Moses. We don't even get to watch Jesus raise people from the dead. Satan on the other hand, gets to see all of that and more. What gives? Satan is obviously less than god cause god created Satan not the other way around. To use the intellegent design argument in my favour, never did a watch ever face a human and conclude that it was greater than the human who made it. How could Satan look at god and not see his creator? Satan's rebellion makes no sense whatsoever. Mongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Cos god did a piss poor job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Satan is just that blinded by his own envy and hatred. How so very sad for him. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 god created Satan not the other way around. Take another look at your bible. Satan definitely created THAT motherfucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I used to argue that God set Satan up to fall because Satan was the most powerful being ever created, second only in beings to the uncreated God. Who else but Satan would God have control the "evil" side of things, while God dealt with the "good". Plus, as the most powerful, none of the rest of God's creation would be powerful enough to stop Satan on their own. How would it look if the Ruler of All that is Evil got taken out by some lowly cherub? Of course, it still sets Satan up as the ultimate Straw Man, easily toppled when God is ready to. The fight is fixed....and if the story of Job is any indication, Satan is in cahoots with God, so there is no place for the rest of us to hide. Satan is God's man. Always has been, always will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 The fight is fixed....and if the story of Job is any indication, Satan is in cahoots with God, so there is no place for the rest of us to hide. Satan is God's man. Always has been, always will. So this is kinda like Judas. He didn't want to betray Jesus but knew that he must for "destiny" to be fulfilled. I never thought of it that way. Still... even if you are jealous at some level, unless you are unable to see god for what he is then you would humble yourself and not cross the big guy. Which brings us to another thought. If Satan misjudged god as being as small as Satan himself then maybe Satan sees god as we're told that we see him. You know... god is this mysterious entity that is always playing hide and seek with us and never clearly demonstrating his powers. So Satan somehow thought there was no real god or that he was just a wimp. Maybe Satan thought that "heaven" always existed and that god had nothing to do with it. Maybe Satan was an atheist and rather than prove to Satan that god was all powerful, he got pissed off and kicked his arse to earth? Silly eh? I just CAN'T imagine a remotely plausible story to explain that but maybe it has the makings of a short story. Mongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Didn't Phillip Pullman get three doorstops out of the idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 Didn't Phillip Pullman get three doorstops out of the idea? Didn't we agree that being cryptic will get your arse booted? Mongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Didn't Phillip Pullman get three doorstops out of the idea? Didn't we agree that being cryptic will get your arse booted? Mongo Author... Philip Pullman. 'Jehovah wasn't the creator, just the the first...' His Dark Materials Trilogy I'm not cryptic... just well read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Satan's rebellion makes no sense whatsoever. Just like the cults that promote that ridiculous concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 This isn't recorded in the Word, but it's the real reason that the Talking Snake rebelled against the Holy Farter. See, for many thousands of years everything was great in the Sky Kingdom. The Holy Farter farted regularly, and everyone agreed that His Farts were the holiest, loudest, and most awesome of all. When the Holy Farter farted, the hosts of Heaven bowed down and worshiped Him and relished the sweet aroma emanating from His Ass. The Talking Snake, of course, was usually closest to the Holy Farter when He farted, and although it was certainly a blessing, he began to feel that he could out-fart the Holy Farter. He practiced privately at night in his mansion, and because of his growing pride in his farting accomplishments, he began to declare to himself that he could fart just like the Holy Farter. As the Talking Snake's farting skills developed, he became unable to hide his farting talents because of course, just as the Holy Farter could be heard farting throughout Heaven, so could the Talking Snake. The Talking Snake knew that he was ready and that his time had come, so he publicly challenged the Holy Farter to a farting contest. The next morning, the Holy Farter and the Talking Snake met, shook hands, and began the most glorious farting contest in the history of the universe! The Holy Farter and the Talking Snake traded farts for hours, each fart building on the last, louder and more powerful and more glorious than the last. Finally, the Holy Farter took a deep breath and pushed harder than He had ever pushed before and issued a Blast from His Ass that was so holy, so loud, and so powerfully awesome that it actually created the universe that we now call our home! Glory! The Talking Snake bowed his head because he knew that he'd been beat. The Holy Farter farted powerfully in the Talking Snake's direction, and he was quite literally farted right out of Heaven and transformed into the diabolical being that we know him as today. Really, that's honestly how it all really happened! Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOkkata Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 To use the intellegent design argument in my favour, never did a watch ever face a human and conclude that it was greater than the human who made it. Surely you must have seen 'The Matrix' or 'Terminator' by now man? Don't you know it's only a matter of time?! O_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 The question of Satan's rebellion against god has always puzzled me. Jesuschrist it puzzles me to! My own belief is that satan is the evil that reigns in man's heart. As for fallen angels and rebillion, why the fuck did god allow it. In my opinion its all bullshit except for do unto your neighbors as you would do unto yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Really, that's honestly how it all really happened! Glory! I don't know where you get your information from, Brother J., but the fact of the matter is, the Talking Snake was thrown out of Heaven for creating BEANO. The creation of BEANO is the worst thing that could ever happen to The Holy Farter. The Talking Snake bowed his head because he knew that he'd been beat. .... And he laid his soiled gutchies on the ground at Farter's feet... Farter said, "Hey T.S. just come on back if you ever want to try again. "I told you once, you son of a bitch, I'm the best that's ever been." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oddmanout Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 It's a myth about a moron, emphasizing the word myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Really, that's honestly how it all really happened! Glory! I don't know where you get your information from, Brother J., but the fact of the matter is, the Talking Snake was thrown out of Heaven for creating BEANO. The creation of BEANO is the worst thing that could ever happen to The Holy Farter. The Talking Snake bowed his head because he knew that he'd been beat. .... And he laid his soiled gutchies on the ground at Farter's feet... Farter said, "Hey T.S. just come on back if you ever want to try again. "I told you once, you son of a bitch, I'm the best that's ever been." OK... that literally made me laugh aloud... such a rare occurrence as to warrant noting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Which brings us to another thought. If Satan misjudged god as being as small as Satan himself then maybe Satan sees god as we're told that we see him. You know... god is this mysterious entity that is always playing hide and seek with us and never clearly demonstrating his powers. So Satan somehow thought there was no real god or that he was just a wimp. Maybe Satan thought that "heaven" always existed and that god had nothing to do with it. Maybe Satan was an atheist and rather than prove to Satan that god was all powerful, he got pissed off and kicked his arse to earth? Silly eh? I just CAN'T imagine a remotely plausible story to explain that but maybe it has the makings of a short story. Mongo It's hard for me to not look at God and Satan myth in terms of the conservation of energy. How is it possible that evil can come into being if God created everything? Either evil is not evil and is part of God himself, or God did not create everything, and is just a big god among many others. My vote is that the writers of the myth viewed him as the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOkkata Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Which brings us to another thought. If Satan misjudged god as being as small as Satan himself then maybe Satan sees god as we're told that we see him. You know... god is this mysterious entity that is always playing hide and seek with us and never clearly demonstrating his powers. So Satan somehow thought there was no real god or that he was just a wimp. Maybe Satan thought that "heaven" always existed and that god had nothing to do with it. Maybe Satan was an atheist and rather than prove to Satan that god was all powerful, he got pissed off and kicked his arse to earth? Silly eh? I just CAN'T imagine a remotely plausible story to explain that but maybe it has the makings of a short story. Mongo It's hard for me to not look at God and Satan myth in terms of the conservation of energy. How is it possible that evil can come into being if God created everything? Either evil is not evil and is part of God himself, or God did not create everything, and is just a big god among many others. My vote is that the writers of the myth viewed him as the latter. God admits He created evil. Isaiah 45:7 Amos 3:6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrosmith Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Satan rebelled because he was morally obligated to. Once he learned of god's plan for mankind, Satan was able to convince a 3d of heaven that the right thing to do was to fight against God and try to stop it even tho he knew he would lose. Satan is a hero. Or, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Because of Satan's stand against god in spite of the consequences, Satan > God in Christian mythology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Because of what we've all been told about 'Satan', and because of the ideas we have about 'God', we'd all assume that Satan's rebellion against God was a negative thing. But let's look at the specific things Christians also say about God, apart from the vast generalisations (like God is love) that are in no way based on evidence and in fact conflict with it... --God created angels to worship Him for eternity, not for their own good or any other good --Not only did he prohibit the search for knowledge and fulfilment by making the tree of knowledge forbidden, He punished Adam and Eve for eating from it with suffering and death. He also punished all of their innocent offspring by making them guilty from conception of something they weren't even around to witness, let alone do. --He chose one race for Himself and condemned everyone else to hell for worshipping 'false gods' though He was the One who refused to reveal Himself to them. --He considered this one race so superior to others than they were not only allowed but obliged to slaughter the men, women and children of the tribes inhabiting their own homeland, so they could kick them out and take it for themselves with no real reason. --He is going to send us all to hell for eternity because we refuse to believe something based on no evidence whatsoever. --He brought plagues on entire peoples for things their leaders (sometimes unwittingly) did wrong. --He 'hardened Pharoah's heart' and forced him to keep the Hebrews as slaves and then slaughtered him and his entire army for doing so. Now, if such a being was controlling you in such a direct way as God controlled Lucifer, wouldn't you rebel? And, in reality, wouldn't you be morally obliged to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 God admits He created evil. Isaiah 45:7 Amos 3:6. Yeah, but it's not evil evil, it's like, calamity... and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smellincoffee Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I always thought the Christian idea of god was moronic. I enjoy studying Judaism, and their Satan is much more sensible; he's the servant of God who tests us so that we can grow making the right choices. The Islamic notion of Satan ("Shaytan") is more like the Christian one, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 XXII. Azathoth Out in the mindless void the daemon bore me, Past the bright clusters of dimensioned space, Till neither time nor matter stretched before me, But only Chaos, without form or place. Here the vast Lord of All in darkness muttered Things he had dreamed but could not understand, While near him shapeless bat-things flopped and fluttered In idiot vortices that ray-streams fanned. They danced insanely to the high, thin whining Of a cracked flute clutched in a monstrous paw, Whence flow the aimless waves whose chance combining Gives each frail cosmos its eternal law. "I am His Messenger," the daemon said, As in contempt he struck his Master's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 XXII. Azathoth Out in the mindless void the daemon bore me, Past the bright clusters of dimensioned space, Till neither time nor matter stretched before me, But only Chaos, without form or place. Here the vast Lord of All in darkness muttered Things he had dreamed but could not understand, While near him shapeless bat-things flopped and fluttered In idiot vortices that ray-streams fanned. They danced insanely to the high, thin whining Of a cracked flute clutched in a monstrous paw, Whence flow the aimless waves whose chance combining Gives each frail cosmos its eternal law. "I am His Messenger," the daemon said, As in contempt he struck his Master's head. http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/buml/web6/video/azathoth.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Yes, I like that version... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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