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God's 3 In 1 Personality


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Apparently they dont. If the Holy Specter, Jesus and god are one then logically they should know the same things, and because this is god were talking of, they should know everythibg. However in Matt 24:36 Jesus states that he wont know when he will come back, instead he says that only "The Father" (god) can know. Logically god cannot hide knowledge from itself, either he knows something or he dosent.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

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I think the Trinity was invented to patch over the Tarsean idea of 3 distinct gods, and the Western idea of Jesus being (a representative of the one true) God, while making both a heresy, and remaining close enough to both to make the 'faithful' of the disparate idea able to covert with no major crisis of conscience.

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The idea of the Trinity in light of some of the things the bible says dosent make sense, eitehr the trinity idea is wrong or the bible is wrong, or both. Someone who reads the bible and thinks about this stuff should be able to see this trouble.

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I've seen instances of many trinities and triads beside the one dealt with in the Bible. For instance there is the Hindu trinity of Brahma, Shiva, and Vishnu. And Freud said there were three aspects of the psyche: id, ego, and superego.

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I've seen instances of many trinities and triads beside the one dealt with in the Bible. For instance there is the Hindu trinity of Brahma, Shiva, and Vishnu. And Freud said there were three aspects of the psyche: id, ego, and superego.

 

there is a difference between a triad (3 co-equal) and trinity (3 in 1)

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Is this a trinity or is it a triad?

post-1894-1179249518.jpg

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God, Jesus and the holy ghost are a trinity, therefore they must know the same things if they are the same, if they dont (as the bible would imply) then teh Church is wrong in calling them a Trinity.

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Hunger can overcome love and fear. Fear can overcome hunger and love. Love can overcome fear and hunger.

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Hunger can overcome love and fear. Fear can overcome hunger and love. Love can overcome fear and hunger.

hehehe...I like the way you think Legion.

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Apparently they dont. If the Holy Specter, Jesus and god are one then logically they should know the same things, and because this is god were talking of, they should know everythibg. However in Matt 24:36 Jesus states that he wont know when he will come back, instead he says that only "The Father" (god) can know. Logically god cannot hide knowledge from itself, either he knows something or he dosent.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

The problem is the trinity is ill-defined.

 

There is "GOD." He seems to be omnimax...the everything. When people say "god" this is the guy. This is assumed to be YHWH despite the obvious holes in YHWH's performance record and lack of recognition in the NT (it's not his fault no one said his name and some generic placeholders stole his thunder...no pun intended).

 

There is the "Holy Spirit" which is an "aspect" or "extension" of god that "infuses" people with his power. It's like an angel in many ways and perhaps was confused with angels in the past. The burning bush might have been god, an angel, the holy spirit or even jesus (pre-body). We see it in the form of a dove. Little tongues of fire. We hear it in the babbling (also known as tongues) and it gets virgins pregnant. The "spirit" is like a soul in a way. It doesn't seem to have a will of its own.

 

Finally there is jesus. Pre-birth he seems to be female since we are told (wrongly so) that he is "wisdom." We are also told that he is the one that made the things when god spoke them into being. We are told he's the one that actually walked in the garden (somehow talking a form) and made all the other interactions where "god" was mentioned (Jews say these are angels...the bible claims it is god, usually YHWH by name...but what does it know?) The church fathers describe jesus as coming out of gods bowels (not as in excrement) so they are the same "stuff." This "split" almost seems like a cell division in a way to read it. Jesus does seem to have his own will but is obedient to the "father" (case in point the asking to be excused from the crucifixion but going through with it when that didn't happen).

 

When looked at this way the father/spirit really are one and the same thing. It would be like a human/soul combination. Now imagine if people had psychic superpowers (mind over matter stuff/the "force"). This would be sort of how the god/spirit combination works. God thinks/wills it and the spirit does it or infuses another person/object with power so they can do things (ie. charges up prophets so they have superpowers).

 

Then there's god/jesus which are really the same "essence" that just "split" a piece from itself so that it could be born. Since it is not created but divided it is the same creature just now in a resurrected human form. When a cell divides it is a new cell so that means that jesus should be a new god even though he is the same type of god (cell).

 

To test to see if he is the same he should be able to do all the same things that the original should do. Is he eternal? He came from the original and will last as long. I'll give it to him. Sure. Technically he may not be but why not. Is him omnipotent? He doesn't seem to be. He yields to the "father." This seems unknown. Is he omniscient? No. He doesn't know when he will return and says so. Is he omnipresent? No. He's stuck in one body. Is he omnibenevolent? No. He says only the "father" is good. Clearly he is inferior to the cloth he is cut from in just these few simple "god" tests.

 

So far it looks like two things in the trinity really aren't worthy to be considered "gods" at all. They appear to be attributes of the "higher" god or "lesser" beings such as demigods (the devil/Satan?) or angels. I guess this is the problem faced when the ultimate decision comes to what a council/emperor wants. You end up with something that ultimately doesn't make a lot of sense...unless you have "faith" that is. :)

 

mwc

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It's nothing more than the way all of nature works...cause, medium and effect. :shrug:

 

 

 

:HaHa:

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Apparently they dont. If the Holy Specter, Jesus and god are one then logically they should know the same things, and because this is god were talking of, they should know everythibg. However in Matt 24:36 Jesus states that he wont know when he will come back, instead he says that only "The Father" (god) can know. Logically god cannot hide knowledge from itself, either he knows something or he dosent.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

The problem is the trinity is ill-defined.

 

There is "GOD." He seems to be omnimax...the everything. When people say "god" this is the guy. This is assumed to be YHWH despite the obvious holes in YHWH's performance record and lack of recognition in the NT (it's not his fault no one said his name and some generic placeholders stole his thunder...no pun intended).

 

There is the "Holy Spirit" which is an "aspect" or "extension" of god that "infuses" people with his power. It's like an angel in many ways and perhaps was confused with angels in the past. The burning bush might have been god, an angel, the holy spirit or even jesus (pre-body). We see it in the form of a dove. Little tongues of fire. We hear it in the babbling (also known as tongues) and it gets virgins pregnant. The "spirit" is like a soul in a way. It doesn't seem to have a will of its own.

 

Finally there is jesus. Pre-birth he seems to be female since we are told (wrongly so) that he is "wisdom." We are also told that he is the one that made the things when god spoke them into being. We are told he's the one that actually walked in the garden (somehow talking a form) and made all the other interactions where "god" was mentioned (Jews say these are angels...the bible claims it is god, usually YHWH by name...but what does it know?) The church fathers describe jesus as coming out of gods bowels (not as in excrement) so they are the same "stuff." This "split" almost seems like a cell division in a way to read it. Jesus does seem to have his own will but is obedient to the "father" (case in point the asking to be excused from the crucifixion but going through with it when that didn't happen).

 

When looked at this way the father/spirit really are one and the same thing. It would be like a human/soul combination. Now imagine if people had psychic superpowers (mind over matter stuff/the "force"). This would be sort of how the god/spirit combination works. God thinks/wills it and the spirit does it or infuses another person/object with power so they can do things (ie. charges up prophets so they have superpowers).

 

Then there's god/jesus which are really the same "essence" that just "split" a piece from itself so that it could be born. Since it is not created but divided it is the same creature just now in a resurrected human form. When a cell divides it is a new cell so that means that jesus should be a new god even though he is the same type of god (cell).

 

To test to see if he is the same he should be able to do all the same things that the original should do. Is he eternal? He came from the original and will last as long. I'll give it to him. Sure. Technically he may not be but why not. Is him omnipotent? He doesn't seem to be. He yields to the "father." This seems unknown. Is he omniscient? No. He doesn't know when he will return and says so. Is he omnipresent? No. He's stuck in one body. Is he omnibenevolent? No. He says only the "father" is good. Clearly he is inferior to the cloth he is cut from in just these few simple "god" tests.

 

So far it looks like two things in the trinity really aren't worthy to be considered "gods" at all. They appear to be attributes of the "higher" god or "lesser" beings such as demigods (the devil/Satan?) or angels. I guess this is the problem faced when the ultimate decision comes to what a council/emperor wants. You end up with something that ultimately doesn't make a lot of sense...unless you have "faith" that is. :)

 

mwc

 

You more or less outlined the Tarsean view. As I said above, the Trinity doesn't 'work' since it's to unify two contradictory doctrines in such away that both are Heresies if adhered to, and yet neither is contradicted wholly...

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You more or less outlined the Tarsean view. As I said above, the Trinity doesn't 'work' since it's to unify two contradictory doctrines in such away that both are Heresies if adhered to, and yet neither is contradicted wholly...

Maybe through some time dilation thing we don't understand it's really my view that was being originally posited? Yeah. That's as plausible as anything to do with the trinity I think. All hail my brilliant theory said here first (even though you may have seen it elsewhere before now authored by others).

 

Or maybe I just didn't catch the reference... Nah! All hail my brilliant theory... :HaHa:

 

mwc

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You more or less outlined the Tarsean view. As I said above, the Trinity doesn't 'work' since it's to unify two contradictory doctrines in such away that both are Heresies if adhered to, and yet neither is contradicted wholly...

Maybe through some time dilation thing we don't understand it's really my view that was being originally posited? Yeah. That's as plausible as anything to do with the trinity I think. All hail my brilliant theory said here first (even though you may have seen it elsewhere before now authored by others).

 

Or maybe I just didn't catch the reference... Nah! All hail my brilliant theory... :HaHa:

 

mwc

 

You've been at the opium pipe again... :wicked:

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Causality fails in nature at it's smallest level...

So you're not natural? :HaHa:

 

Or are you saying that you didn't cause yourself to type that?

 

:scratch:

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Causality fails in nature at it's smallest level...

So you're not natural? :HaHa:

 

Or are you saying that you didn't cause yourself to type that?

 

:scratch:

 

I'm not a quantum level event... in fact I'm several orders of magnitude, orders of magnitude above that. I'm pretty much Newtonian.

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I'm pretty much Newtonian.

Ah Grandpa Harley, I wish that you would turn that fantastic intellect towards the work of Robert Rosen, a theoretical biologist. I would love to hear what you have to say about it.

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I'm pretty much Newtonian.

Ah Grandpa Harley, I wish that you would turn that fantastic intellect towards the work of Robert Rosen, a theoretical biologist. I would love to hear what you have to say about it.

Thanks for that Legion...I just added Life Itself: A Comprehensive Inquiry Into The Nature, Origin, And Fabrication Of Life (Complexity in Ecological Systems) to my wishlist.

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I'm pretty much Newtonian.

Ah Grandpa Harley, I wish that you would turn that fantastic intellect towards the work of Robert Rosen, a theoretical biologist. I would love to hear what you have to say about it.

Thanks for that Legion...I just added Life Itself: A Comprehensive Inquiry Into The Nature, Origin, And Fabrication Of Life (Complexity in Ecological Systems) to my wishlist.

Fantastic NBBTB! If and when you read it I would very much like to hear your thoughts on it.

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mwc you thought about that way too much. :shrug:

 

Causality fails in nature at it's smallest level...

How so?

 

Lack of arrow of time. I'd point you at Feynman's QED that covers some of it, but I'd have to dig around the stacks (not for the faint hearted in my house) to find the other stuff.

 

Causality pre-assumes a fixed arrow of time at all levels. This isn't the case. At a very small size, the arrow can be intdeterminate, and at relativistic scale the rate of the passage of time isn't fixed (although you get asymptotes at t->0 and dy/dt isn't fixed) Now, those are experimentally observable.

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I'm pretty much Newtonian.

Ah Grandpa Harley, I wish that you would turn that fantastic intellect towards the work of Robert Rosen, a theoretical biologist. I would love to hear what you have to say about it.

 

Drop me a reading list... I'll blame you to my wife :)

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You've been at the opium pipe again... :wicked:

Oh shit! That's what I forgot to do today. :Doh:

 

mwc

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