perianwalsh Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 To be honest I have far more questions than answers after all the research I have done. I just keep plugging away hoping that somehow it will come together...but it probably won't without more discoveries out in the field. Agree. Once I thought I could put the jesus theory into mithraic,then i discovered the possibility of astrology.Then when i thought i solve every problem,i faced the dead sea scrol issue,then the spruaguint.......it's tiring,but really,we have to find more evidence lo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perianwalsh Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 http://jdstone.org/cr/index.html http://www.inu.net/skeptic/ Got two links here. One is jewish and one is skeptics it's quite good,in my opinion I am going to library today and see how far can i research....hope not another apologist books I found that midrash is crucial in my study,but still i cant get the whole picture of why midrash is so crucial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Midrash is just a flash way of telling you how to read a passage, and only really applies to Hebrew texts, not Greek ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I found that midrash is crucial in my study,but still i cant get the whole picture of why midrash is so crucial Midrash...the need to explain the little odds and ends. Lilith is an example of something that came from midrash. Genesis mentions the creation of both man and woman but then it mentions woman coming from the rib of Adam. What happened? Midrash to the rescue. Someone comes up with an explanation for the apparent discrepancy. Adam and Lilith were the first two but there were "issues" and so we try again with Adam and Eve. Midrash explains lots of these types of things. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Midrash is just a flash way of telling you how to read a passage, and only really applies to Hebrew texts, not Greek ones. I'd agree but who's to say what these guys were up to way back when? I recall at least one church father explicitly stating the Greek Sybils were just as good as the Jewish prophets (when they were in "agreement") so they seemed to take from whatever sources they agreed with. But, you're right, I doubt a "good" Jew would pull this stunt (so Paul would probably do it ). mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perianwalsh Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 Midrash explains lots of these types of things. Thanks! I think Paul only claims to be orthodox jew. I think one of the reasons why chrisitanity erupted is because it did not require circumsision constantine's council of nicea seems to be the one who mades today christianity i wonder how far you(mwc & grandpa harley ) researches to.You all seems to knew a lot....maybe it's just because i only research for 1 1/2 month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Midrash explains lots of these types of things. Thanks! You're quite welcome. The Talmud is full of midrash as are the works of Philo. I think Paul only claims to be orthodox jew. Paul claimed a lot of things. Just remember that there was no such animal as an "orthodox" Jew then. As I recall he claimed to be a Pharisee which is quite another thing altogether. This would be like, today, speaking of something like "fundamentalist" Islam. It's all technically "fundamentalist" that's why we've started using the "better" term "radical" instead. Perhaps he was a "radical" Pharisee? The thing is, IF, he was such a "good" Jew he would NEVER be a xian now would he? No...he would not. It's only in Acts that all his actions are justified because Paul himself never deals with the subject as I recall. I think one of the reasons why chrisitanity erupted is because it did not require circumsision Not only did Paul probably realize that the Jews weren't the only folks that did this (Egyptians appear to have done it first...or pretty close to first at least and still did it in Paul's day from what I understand as did other cults) but when you have the Roman Empire "angry" at you, and a quick look up your robe will "give you away" as a probable member of a certain religion they hate, it's best to distance yourself from that religion. One simple way to increase your numbers is to stop making your new converts get snipped for a quick ID in the Roman lineup. Makes sense to me but I've only been able to make the assertion since I can't prove it. constantine's council of nicea seems to be the one who mades today christianity I think it started before then but it became formalized at Nicea then adopted about a century later. The religion we think of a "christianity" and the religion people in the first 300 years prior to Nicea as "christianity" would be close depending on where in the empire we were having our discussion but after Nicea what we think of as the religion is much closer to the "norm" everywhere. It will still take a lot of evolution up to the whole Protestant Reformation and all that for our particular brand truly to come about (not to mention the modern concept of the rapture that will come so much later and "hippie" jesus). i wonder how far you(mwc & grandpa harley ) researches to.You all seems to knew a lot....maybe it's just because i only research for 1 1/2 month I "learned" a lot in school (a baptist school). Then I "unlearned" a lot when I joined up here about 2 years ago and started learning the real answers for myself. I still tend to "default" to the propaganda that was drilled into my head day after day in school even if I know the "right" answer. It's annoying and I tend to jumble up the information in my head as a result. Oh well. At least I know the truth even if I can't always get it out. Anyhow, it sounds like you're making a lot of progress for just a 1 1/2 months. There's a lot to know and the xians make it sound so very simple when they're explaining the Jewish belief system but it's so obvious once you start looking into it yourself that they don't have a clue what someone like Paul was dealing with. Of course most xians don't even understand their own religion so I don't know why I'm so surprised really. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perianwalsh Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share Posted June 21, 2007 Factors that might be the roots of christianity await of messiah Jewish sect-the way similarities between christianity and other religions of the time I'm intriguted about constantine,chi-ro and zarathustra.i hope I can find information about that I have no new information-still reading old ones...try to make a better picture of it Of course most xians don't even understand their own religion so I don't know why I'm so surprised really. The argument I have b4 i left the church.Most of them-at least to my own view,seems that to thought that the bible is from oral traditions or directly from the hands of holy spirit .I seems to be the only one who knew about council of nicea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perianwalsh Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 I am back on mithra and zoroaster............these days i kept convert text to audio like crazy..hope 2 get some answer. http://www.geocities.com/spenta_mainyu/index.htm http://www.atypical-christianity.com/exanti/ (chinese site) http://www.tannerlectures.utah.edu/lectures/Pagels99.pdf (elaine pagels) links that i got Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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