Why I'm Not An Atheist.

[Guest marv]

Hi all,

 

This is my first post, I don't plan on being a regular here (this will probably be my only post) because debating and arguing with others regarding the choices they have made really is not something I enjoy or want to spend time doing.

I was doing my usual Internet browsing and just sort of stumbled onto this site. I did read some of the testimonies from former Christians and how they have left their Faith in God and I guess have basically become humanists/Atheists. I do know from reading the information on these sorts of web sites that science has become, all be it vehemently denied, a sort of religion for humanists/Atheists in itself. A humanist places his or her faith in humanity but as most people know, we as humans can't even rely on ourselves let alone rely on others to not let us down. Science seeks answers, science seeks proof while Christianity says you will not have all of the answers and you will many times be perplexed but the only requirement for you is to put your faith in God and trust him. On one hand possibly the easiest yet possibly the hardest thing you can do.

I've noticed that there seems to be a common trait among many Atheists, they are a very, highly intelligent group of people. I feel that their intellect is a sense of pride for them and also a huge stumbling block for them to ever open their hearts up to God.

Again, the world is trying to find God on THEIR terms, and if they cannot prove his existence, they will never believe. I have news for you, you will NEVER prove God's existence. This is his plan, it is spelled out in his word (see passage below). Anyways, God has given everyone a free will and a choice to believe in whatever or whomever they desire but there are consequences for the choice that you make.

Again, I understand people who have a hard time believing in someone they have never seen or heard. The bible never said it was going to be easy, as Jesus said " The highway to Hell is broad and its gate is wide for the many who CHOOSE that way, but the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult and only a few ever find it".

Anyways, I am posting a link with an audio sermon that is quite interesting and explains why the particular speaker is not an Atheist. take a listen if you are interested. It won't make most of you change your minds but it does give a different perspective compared to the usual Atheism vs Christianity arguments.

 

 

Why I’m Not An Atheist (part 1 of 2)

by Ravi Zacharias

 

http://htod.cdncon.com/o2/rzimht/MP3/LMPT/131-1.mp3

 

 

Why I’m Not An Atheist (part 2 of 2)

by Ravi Zacharias

 

http://htod.cdncon.com/o2/rzimht/MP3/LMPT/131-2.mp3

 

 

 

Link to more Audio Sermons by Ravi Z

 

http://rzim.org/radio/archives.php?p=LMPT&o=0&i=100

 

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 1:18-29

New Living Translation (NLT)

 

 

The Wisdom of God

18 The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God. 19 As the Scriptures say,

 

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise

and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”[a]

 

20 So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. 21 Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. 22 It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. 23 So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense.

 

24 But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.

 

26 Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world’s eyes or powerful or wealthy[c] when God called you. 27 Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. 28 God chose things despised by the world,[d] things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. 29 As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.

[dr_funkenstein]

Post and run from the get-go. Why bother reading, let alone replying?

[Ouroboros]

*sigh* Does Ex-Christian really say anything to people? Marv, your post completely show that you don't even know what kind of people you're talking to, so why even bother arguing or posting anything? The majority of the people here were Christians once and some (many) spent many years as Christians, and some even went to Bible schools, mission trips or even became ministers. You're not talking to a group of people that have no clue what faith is or what the Bible say. You only prove yourself being an ignorant person from get-go. If you're not planning on coming back, I'll let this topic be up until tomorrow and then delete it. This topic doesn't have any value for anyone here.

[XtianChris]

I've noticed that there seems to be a common trait among many Atheists, they are a very, highly intelligent group of people. I feel that their intellect is a sense of pride for them and also a huge stumbling block for them to ever open their hearts up to God.

 

Oops, it appears God created us with brains we weren't supposed to use.

[Kuroikaze]

Sorry, I've already heard enough of Ravi Zacharias's sermons to fill TWO lifetimes, His stuff is only barely more tolerable than most other fundies.

 

I studied apologetics for years in college, I seriously doubt that he has some totally new perspective I've never heard of.

 

Why is it fundies are afraid of intelligence? Yes intelligence is a stumbling block to believing in the Christian god, because I would HAVE to be brain damaged to ever let my self be sucked back into that non-sense.

[Kuroikaze]

Again, the world is trying to find God on THEIR terms, and if they cannot prove his existence, they will never believe. I have news for you, you will NEVER prove God's existence. This is his plan, it is spelled out in his word (see passage below). Anyways, God has given everyone a free will and a choice to believe in whatever or whomever they desire but there are consequences for the choice that you make.

 

 

What absolute non-sense, God intentionally makes it difficult for us to believe and then will punish us when we fail to believe? Are you freaking listing to yourself? If my choice is between hell, and eternity kissing the ass of the sort of jerk you claim to believe in, well, hell doesn't sound too bad by comparison.

[DarthOkkata]

Hi all,

 

This is my first post, I don't plan on being a regular here (this will probably be my only post) because debating and arguing with others regarding the choices they have made really is not something I enjoy or want to spend time doing.

I was doing my usual Internet browsing and just sort of stumbled onto this site. I did read some of the testimonies from former Christians and how they have left their Faith in God and I guess have basically become humanists/Atheists. I do know from reading the information on these sorts of web sites that science has become, all be it vehemently denied, a sort of religion for humanists/Atheists in itself. A humanist places his or her faith in humanity but as most people know, we as humans can't even rely on ourselves let alone rely on others to not let us down. Science seeks answers, science seeks proof while Christianity says you will not have all of the answers and you will many times be perplexed but the only requirement for you is to put your faith in God and trust him. On one hand possibly the easiest yet possibly the hardest thing you can do.

I've noticed that there seems to be a common trait among many Atheists, they are a very, highly intelligent group of people. I feel that their intellect is a sense of pride for them and also a huge stumbling block for them to ever open their hearts up to God.

Again, the world is trying to find God on THEIR terms, and if they cannot prove his existence, they will never believe. I have news for you, you will NEVER prove God's existence. This is his plan, it is spelled out in his word (see passage below). Anyways, God has given everyone a free will and a choice to believe in whatever or whomever they desire but there are consequences for the choice that you make.

Again, I understand people who have a hard time believing in someone they have never seen or heard. The bible never said it was going to be easy, as Jesus said " The highway to Hell is broad and its gate is wide for the many who CHOOSE that way, but the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult and only a few ever find it".

Anyways, I am posting a link with an audio sermon that is quite interesting and explains why the particular speaker is not an Atheist. take a listen if you are interested. It won't make most of you change your minds but it does give a different perspective compared to the usual Atheism vs Christianity arguments.

 

 

Why I’m Not An Atheist (part 1 of 2)

by Ravi Zacharias

 

http://htod.cdncon.com/o2/rzimht/MP3/LMPT/131-1.mp3

 

 

Why I’m Not An Atheist (part 2 of 2)

by Ravi Zacharias

 

http://htod.cdncon.com/o2/rzimht/MP3/LMPT/131-2.mp3

 

 

 

Link to more Audio Sermons by Ravi Z

 

http://rzim.org/radio/archives.php?p=LMPT&o=0&i=100

 

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 1:18-29

New Living Translation (NLT)

 

 

The Wisdom of God

18 The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God. 19 As the Scriptures say,

 

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise

and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”[a]

 

20 So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. 21 Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. 22 It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. 23 So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense.

 

24 But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.

 

26 Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world’s eyes or powerful or wealthy[c] when God called you. 27 Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. 28 God chose things despised by the world,[d] things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. 29 As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.

 

Uh Huh huh huh, um, words...words, huh huh, words. Huh huh huh.

 

Heh heh heh. What's it say? Heh heh heh m heh heh.

 

This chick is stupid. Huh huh huh.

 

Heh heh. Yeah. It's like, she doesn't know we, like, heard all this stuff before or something. Heh heh heh.

 

Yeah. Huh huh huh. We're smart. Huh huh huh.

 

Heh heh heh m heh heh heh. This sucks, change it. Heh heh heh.

 

Yeah. Huh huh. How do you get this thing to show boobs again? Huh huh huh. E-mail is cool. Huh huh huh.

 

Huh huh huh huh. Huh huh huh huh huh.

 

Heh heh heh m heh heh heh heh heh heh.

[Thurisaz]

Hi all,

 

This is my first post, I don't plan on being a regular here (this will probably be my only post) because debating and arguing with others regarding the choices they have made really is not something I enjoy or want to spend time doing.

 

Wow, an honest seagull fundie. That's a change for sure.

[R. S. Martin]

Sorry, I've already heard enough of Ravi Zacharias's sermons to fill TWO lifetimes, His stuff is only barely more tolerable than most other fundies.

 

A Ravi Zacharias fan? I didn't read beyond his statement that this would be his only post so I didn't see that part. But Ravi Zacharias? He's the idol of that crazy fundy optometrist that kicked me out of his office because I did not appreciate being evangelized and told him so in very definite terms. That eye doctor is one huge reason for a lot of grief in my life.

 

Had he treated me professionally (meaning NOT evangelizing me) I would not have told my sister about his misdemeanor and she might not know even yet that I have deconverted. And all the hassle around my mother's funeral (my siblings did not think a sinner like me should eat with them at my own mother's funeral) might never have happened. It might have, but then again it might not have.

 

That RZ is a really toxic fundy no matter how fancy the wrapping he comes in. I looked up this optometrist's church and it's a pretty fancy set-up. But fundy to the core. Stay as far away from RZ as you can. And the sermons you heard testify to the fact. Just wanted to confirm that you are not alone in your feelings about that crazy.

[Grandpa Harley]

He thinks Corinthians is a valid book <Blue Beetle>BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAAAAAAAAA!</Blue Beetle>

[Antlerman]

Hi all,

 

This is my first post, I don't plan on being a regular here (this will probably be my only post) because debating and arguing with others regarding the choices they have made really is not something I enjoy or want to spend time doing.

I don’t know why I’m bothering since you don’t have the respect enough towards any of us to actually listen to a response. Generally it’s considered rude to just tell someone what you think then run away. Just trying to help you be a better testimony for the faith you claim. Nonetheless I post a response for the benefit of those who have ears to hear (the non-religious).

 

I do know from reading the information on these sorts of web sites that science has become, all be it vehemently denied, a sort of religion for humanists/Atheists in itself.

Some people do see science as a religion, but not all. In fact I would say those that do see it as a religion are in the minority. I see science as a powerful tool to help us discern fact from fiction. That’s a good thing, don’t you think?

 

A humanist places his or her faith in humanity but as most people know, we as humans can't even rely on ourselves let alone rely on others to not let us down.

How do you explain the fact that we have survived just fine for many thousands of years as human beings working together then? Of course we can rely on ourselves. Did God build China? Did God create democracy? Did God fly a vessel into space and land on the moon??? Of course not. Humans did that.

 

Are humans perfect beings and never trip and stumble? Of course not, but who says they have to be? Have you grown stronger as a human because you were sheltered from negative experiences your whole life? I didn’t think so.

 

Isn’t imperfection part of what makes us “perfect”?

 

Science seeks answers, science seeks proof while Christianity says you will not have all of the answers and you will many times be perplexed but the only requirement for you is to put your faith in God and trust him.

Incorrect! Science does not ever say you will have all the answers. Science seeks to “explain” something, but never claims a static Truth with a capital T like Christianity arrogantly presumes to be able to tell everyone.

 

I suggest you actually learn what science really does, before you simply jump on the bandwagon of denouncing it as anti-faith. You have bad information.

 

I've noticed that there seems to be a common trait among many Atheists, they are a very, highly intelligent group of people. I feel that their intellect is a sense of pride for them and also a huge stumbling block for them to ever open their hearts up to God.

Well that’s certainly a huge assumption on your part to equate our intellect with pride. Let me share something with you please. There’s an old saying, “The more you know, the more you know you don’t know.”

 

In my experience, it’s those who have a little bit of knowledge who become arrogant. The first thing that pops into my head is those who have memorized a bunch of pseudo-knowledge at the hands of religious apologists. They have rote responses to objections that “seem” to be so clearly logical, but like what you have said you plan to do here, they will usually ditch out of having these claims examined. To tell someone you have the Truth, then to run away seems much more arrogant than someone who has gained knowledge that often times contradicts religious ideas.

 

Again, the world is trying to find God on THEIR terms, and if they cannot prove his existence, they will never believe.

So you’re saying that humans should not approach God as humans?

 

Want to buy some Magic Elixir made from Elf hair that is guaranteed to make you strong and handsome?

 

Question for you. Are you so sure that the knowledge you have about this God didn’t come to you through salesmen? Is it a sin to question what you’re told? Does your God object to questions, or is it the religious salesmen you’ve encountered who object to it, and subsequently find verses to hide themselves behind? You can find verses to support anything, you know? How good you can spin it is what defines you as a good salesman (preacher).

 

I have news for you, you will NEVER prove God's existence. This is his plan, it is spelled out in his word (see passage below).

Sounds almost a little too convenient, doesn’t it? The only way my magic Elf Elixir works is if you have unwavering faith in it. If you question it, or have any doubts then it won’t work for you! In fact it’s written in clear language on the label on every bottle.

 

How is it that God expects man to prudent and discerning in all matters of life, yet accept blindly with fear of eternal retribution for questioning the priests? Could it be that’s the way the priests designed it to be??? Quite convenient, wouldn’t you say?

 

Again, I understand people who have a hard time believing in someone they have never seen or heard.

Not at all. Not at all. It’s about credibility.

 

I have no problem in believing that George Washington was the first President of the United States. But don’t you think it prudent to question claims of dead zombies walking around in Washington D.C. after the execution of some criminal? Of course you would. But then why shouldn’t the same degree of suspicion be applied to claims of dead people coming out of the graves and walking around Jerusalem after the execution of Jesus?

 

Are you going to call this use of intelligence arrogant?

 

The bible never said it was going to be easy, as Jesus said " The highway to Hell is broad and its gate is wide for the many who CHOOSE that way, but the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult and only a few ever find it".

Let’s apply that to atheists. What are the percentages of believers versus rejectors of religion in this country? Lets see, 96 % believers, 3% atheists. Many… few…

 

I’ve often mused that the only ones who will go to heaven are those that reject religion. Wasn’t what Jesus taught largely against the fundamentalists of religion in his day?

 

Anyways, I am posting a link with an audio sermon that is quite interesting and explains why the particular speaker is not an Atheist.

You should speak your own thoughts. Not someone else’s.

 

Some things for you to think about. Hope you have the decency to reply.

[Grandpa Harley]

"You should speak your own thoughts. Not someone else’s. "

 

You credit him with the ability to do so?

[Antlerman]

"You should speak your own thoughts. Not someone else’s. "

 

You credit him with the ability to do so?

It's my hope for humanity that everyone may think for themselves!

[Grandpa Harley]

"You should speak your own thoughts. Not someone else’s. "

 

You credit him with the ability to do so?

It's my hope for humanity that everyone may think for themselves!

 

Hope was the last thing out as Pandora closed the box... I like to pretned that too... but I know at the bottom of me that most people can't wipe their arse without a map....

[Antlerman]

"You should speak your own thoughts. Not someone else’s. "

 

You credit him with the ability to do so?

It's my hope for humanity that everyone may think for themselves!

 

Hope was the last thing out as Pandora closed the box... I like to pretned that too... but I know at the bottom of me that most people can't wipe their arse without a map....

I know what you're saying, which is why leaders seem a necessary evil in the world. Unfortunately in today's convenience marketplace for leaders, the simpler the answer the better, and the more charismatic the salesman the better. Simple choices, simple answers, is what today's religious consumer wants, like the 99 cent value meal at McDonalds. "God says so right here..." fits on the menu nicely. Just don't ask about the nutritional value, please.

 

Personally though in my ideology, I think people latch on to teachers because they've been led to believe they can't think for themselves. That, coupled with fear of being responsible for your own answers and an otherwise general laziness, has created flabby muscles which in turn confirms to them they need someone to tell them what truth is. If there is a God, it surely wouldn't want humans to become moo'ing cattle feeding in the drive-though lanes of McChristianity.

[nick5]

I do know from reading the information on these sorts of web sites that science has become, all be it vehemently denied, a sort of religion for humanists/Atheists in itself.

 

You just lost every last bit of credibility right there. That's where I stopped reading.

[Antlerman]

If you're not planning on coming back, I'll let this topic be up until tomorrow and then delete it. This topic doesn't have any value for anyone here.

Hey Hans, don't delete this topic. I think it has value as an example of the sorts of things our friends from the Christian world think about those outside their group. It's nice to be able to address these points for others to read. He summed up those positions nicely, and it provides a platform for us to address those sorts of teachings.

 

Thanks

[Ouroboros]

If you're not planning on coming back, I'll let this topic be up until tomorrow and then delete it. This topic doesn't have any value for anyone here.

Hey Hans, don't delete this topic. I think it has value as an example of the sorts of things our friends from the Christian world think about those outside their group. It's nice to be able to address these points for others to read. He summed up those positions nicely, and it provides a platform for us to address those sorts of teachings.

Sure. I listen to the members and do as they wish. (Most of the time)

 

Then I can make some comments about our 1-post-visitor too...

 

Marv said: I've noticed that there seems to be a common trait among many Atheists, they are a very, highly intelligent group of people. I feel that their intellect is a sense of pride for them and also a huge stumbling block for them to ever open their hearts up to God. And it's partial true. Atheists are very highly intelligent. It's not like intelligence automatically result in atheism, but I've noticed that after my de-conversion my mind works better and I've learned more and think clearer than before. But when it comes to the intellect being something to be prideful of, I'm not sure, because I don't think I'm supersmart. I know plenty of smarter people than me, but I do see that religous people "dummify" themselves and refuse to use their brain. So in a sense, I do see religious people, and especially Christians be very prideful about being stupid and refuse to activate their gray matter. And for the argument about the "heart" versus the "brain", you have to explain to me in a medical and scientific way how the heart can think or feel. There's no evidence for such a thing. All our emotions and "heart" felt feeling come from ... THE BRAIN!!! Ooops! I think you made a boo-boo there, because the little thing I'm so "prideful" of, is the source of the emotions you call the "heart". I guess it is true then, you did turn off your brain completely.

[R. S. Martin]

It's nice to be able to address these points for others to read. He summed up those positions nicely, and it provides a platform for us to address those sorts of teachings.

Sure. I listen to the members and do as they wish. (Most of the time)

 

 

Thanks, Hans. Antlerman does have a point. I can never remember every last thing I read here but I do find myself developing a "storehouse" of answers and arguments for Chrisitans and I regularly use them as needed.

 

I do think it's terribly disrespectful for a person to act as Marv (and other one-time posters) has done. It seems so hopelessly arrogant. It's as though they think they are planting a seed without first checking that this was the sort of soil that is compatible with their seed.

 

For example, it's best not to plant apple trees in a semi-arid hot part of the world, and in this part of the world where apple trees grow wild I would not bother trying to plant cacti. The first rain or cool day would probably kill it. (I don't know the first thing about cacti except that they grow only indoors around here so I assume rain and cold are mortal enemies of it.)

 

Even Jesus talked about incompatible soil and not throwing away good seed. Why can't these people value their treasures or seed enough not to offend their fellow-citizens with stuff they have already thoroughly investigated and rejected?

 

Come to think of it, Jesus pronounced woe to that man who offends "one of these the least of my brethern" (or honest truth-seekers). Jesus said it were better for such a person to have a mill-stone hung on his neck and be drowned in the deepest part of the sea. I guess that is what Marv is asking for--to be condemened.

 

Except he might end up in a place far more unpleasant than a deep sea; he might find himself in a burning lake of fire "where their worm dieth not and the flame is not diminished." "There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth." I'm talking about a legendary horror story where ten-thousand years is but the beginning of a sentence to eternal torture and torment.

[Antlerman]

Marv said: I've noticed that there seems to be a common trait among many Atheists, they are a very, highly intelligent group of people. I feel that their intellect is a sense of pride for them and also a huge stumbling block for them to ever open their hearts up to God.

You pointed out something else to make note of, how that they view rationality as an obstacle to feelings; that it somehow can stand in the way of belief. This is utter nonsense, unless you’re talking about placing belief in something that violates basic reason. Then of course reason is the enemy to that! But what were the words of Jesus again? Oh yes, "And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' Mt. 22:37

 

That's a peculiar commandment in the light of how having an intellect becomes a huge stumbling to opening their hearts up to God. How is denying reason a path to spiritual fulfillment? Doesn't the Bible speak of the merits of using your mind? Wait! Maybe it should only be used if it agrees with the priest? Is that it? Yes, I believe it is. Reason is only good when it agrees with what the priest teaches. Hmm... how is it that I missed that one? Then the key is this: You can only know God if you do it the priests way. If you think on your own... then you are guilty of pride and will surely fail in knowing God, and that's something to fear! Thinking for yourself is s-c-a-r-e-y!

 

It's not like intelligence automatically result in atheism, but I've noticed that after my de-conversion my mind works better and I've learned more and think clearer than before.

That's because you're no longer under the fear of using it. No priest to tell you it will lead to pride!

 

But when it comes to the intellect being something to be prideful of, I'm not sure, because I don't think I'm supersmart. I know plenty of smarter people than me, but I do see that religious people "dummify" themselves and refuse to use their brain.

Likewise, I know people far smarter than me, yet on the contrary, it's usually those who are less knowledgeable who become arrogant. Like I said, "The more you know, the more you know you don't know." I think the "dummifying" bit is using God as an excuse for being lazy. It's worn as a badge of honor, when in reality it’s a hood of ignorance pulled over their heads that dishonors both themselves and everything they claim to believe in.

 

And for the argument about the "heart" versus the "brain", you have to explain to me in a medical and scientific way how the heart can think or feel. There's no evidence for such a thing. All our emotions and "heart" felt feeling come from ... THE BRAIN!!! Ooops! I think you made a boo-boo there, because the little thing I'm so "prideful" of, is the source of the emotions you call the "heart". I guess it is true then, you did turn off your brain completely.

Well there you go. The emotions follow thoughts. That's how it works. So then I ask this question, how if we bury our heads in the sand of denial, telling yourself that the world is really only 6,000 years old, that all the world's credible science is nonsense, and that man can't do anything without heavenly super beings pitching in to help them, how can anyone emotionally feel whole???

 

In the back of our reasoning minds you would have to know you're lying to yourself. And with that nagging thought, exactly what sort of emotions follow? I can't see them being anything healthy, and certainly nothing that would make you feel "closer to God". How can you look in the mirror with healthy pride and say "I am sincere". You can't, and that will only do one thing for you: Force you to try to prop up your head to keep from looking away from yourself in shame. Not much of a path to God there, I'd say.

 

Like I say, "Fundamentalism is the death of spirituality". There's one huge reason why.

 

Boy I liked this guys post. I hope he contributes some more.

[Grandpa Harley]

TBH I've yet to meet what I'd consider to be a really intelligent Christian who isn't also as mad as a cartload of weasels. They hide their insanity well, but when you get to know them they really are just swinging from the crazy tree... Prima facie case... A friend of mine has just converted to the Roman Catholic Church... Why? The doctrine of transubstantiation. I've asked them to report tarry stools to me following mass days...

[Grandpa Harley]

BTW, Han, there is some good discussion here, even if Marvin the Paranoid Android has left the building...

[Evolution_beyond]

Hi all,

 

This is my first post, I don't plan on being a regular here (this will probably be my only post) because debating and arguing with others regarding the choices they have made really is not something I enjoy or want to spend time doing.

 

Why won't christians give me a decent argument oh well, I guess it's because they know they'll lose

 

I do know from reading the information on these sorts of web sites that science has become, all be it vehemently denied, a sort of religion for humanists/Atheists in itself.

 

Call it a religion if you must but it's a 'religion' that tests its hypotheses to breaking point to see if they can hold up against experimentation. This is because science is genuinely interested in what is true about the world rather than insisting people believe something because it is written in a book and telling people that they'll go to hell if they don't believe it.

 

A humanist places his or her faith in humanity but as most people know, we as humans can't even rely on ourselves let alone rely on others to not let us down.

 

I think only a fool would place their faith in humanity. Faith in progress and faith in the empirical search for truth however is something else.

 

I've noticed that there seems to be a common trait among many Atheists, they are a very, highly intelligent group of people. I feel that their intellect is a sense of pride for them and also a huge stumbling block for them to ever open their hearts up to God.

 

I spent a long time being an ex-christian and yet still believing in God and over that time I subjected the whole religious belief thing to rigorous philosophical and logical analysis. And you know what? If God exists then he/she/it is probably not all that interested in whether we worship him/her/it at all. God created all things - all things come from God. As part of God it is only natural that God would love us and respect our independence and free will. Also, God would be so unutterably beyond our human understanding and concerned with things in the Universe far beyond our knowledge and understanding that I find the idea of a deity even bothering itself whether we worship it or not to be very unlikely.

 

Even if God exists (which I now doubt) I don't think that he/she/it could be so small and human in its needs to require or demand acknowledgement and worship from a small, frightened huddle of little creatures on one insignificant little planet in a corner of one of the millions of galaxies that make up the Universe. Even if we mattered at all to such an entity then we would be loved as one small part of the huge entity that is God/the Universe anyway - and our free will to think and reason would also be respected.

 

Also, the only God that could possibly exist = the Universe anyway - which is why I don't believe in God anymore. I believe in the Universe instead

 

That just about covers everything. I can't be bothered to respond to the rest of your post since you won't read it anyway (typical cowardly christian!)

[Evolution_beyond]

If my choice is between hell, and eternity kissing the ass of the sort of jerk you claim to believe in, well, hell doesn't sound too bad by comparison.

 

I bet there'll be more sex in hell - and better booze and music too. Count me in

[Grandpa Harley]

"That just about covers everything. I can't be bothered to respond to the rest of your post since you won't read it anyway (typical cowardly christian!)"

 

Christians are a superstitious cowardly lot... I shall become... A BAT!!!