Are Non-christians Finally Having An Effect On Culture?

[LosingMyReligion]

This morning I was watching good morning America, and I managed to catch the tail end of a special segment. It was about a Christian museum attempting to prove that god created dinosaurs. The curator refered to it as a place for Christians to bolster their faith through science. Furthermore, he went onto say, not quite convincingly, that there has to be a God for us to have morals(*laff*). Usually I get ticked off watching things of this ilk; however, I could tell by the look on his face(and the timbre of his voice)that he wasn't quite so solid in his convictions. Perhaps the sudden influx of all these different atheist authors and the current administration is having an effect on people's beliefs? Normally, no devout x-tians would even CONSIDER science, let alone evolutionary theory.

 

Also, yesterday, I was watching the Tyra Banks show(don't laugh)and there was this fundie woman on there who has a diet plan that is "100% effective." She said that by praying to Jesus you can eat whatever you want and not exercise and still lose weight. I found it funny that every woman in her ministry, including her, looked as though they were suffering from anorexia or bulimia(or both), particularly her. But what impressed me more is that Tyra's audience--and Tyra herself--sorta looked at her like a dork(some were even laughing). They were not buying the Jesus diet.

[Legion]

I think once people start seeing denial for what it is, it does become kind of sad and laughable. I don't believe that it will be anger that marginalizes Christianity, rather it will be a certain compassion that one feels for someone else who suffers from delusion.

[Ouroboros]

The Jesus diet: fast 40 days and nights, go to a cave and die, stay dead in the cave for 2.5 days, rise up to life again to your new and improved thin-as-a-zombie life.

[R. S. Martin]

The Jesus diet: fast 40 days and nights, go to a cave and die, stay dead in the cave for 2.5 days, rise up to life again to your new and improved thin-as-a-zombie life.

 

So that's what the kid on the toilet is reading in the newspaper. I never quite knew how to figure that one out.

[Jessica Sideways]

The Jesus diet: fast 40 days and nights, go to a cave and die, stay dead in the cave for 2.5 days, rise up to life again to your new and improved thin-as-a-zombie life.

I can't even go 4 days without food. I hitchhiked from Calgary to the US and around day 4, I bit someone. Don't ask.

[Max]

I'd love to think that non-xtians are having an impact, but I dearly feel that the opposite is occurring. CNN has a "Faith and Values" correspondent. We just had a friggin' National Day of Prayer. (Anyone notice all the miracles that happened that day?) I dunno. It all seems pretty discouraging to me.

 

And if you can lose weight through prayer, why are all the church ladies so wide?

[Ouroboros]

So that's what the kid on the toilet is reading in the newspaper. I never quite knew how to figure that one out.

The classified pages. He's looking for a job. Diapers and bottle food get expensive over time.

 

-edit-

 

I changed the title to "...Non-Christians..." because the "None Christians" were driving me crazy.

[Panther]

This morning I was watching good morning America, and I managed to catch the tail end of a special segment. It was about a Christian museum attempting to prove that god created dinosaurs. The curator refered to it as a place for Christians to bolster their faith through science. Furthermore, he went onto say, not quite convincingly, that there has to be a God for us to have morals(*laff*).

 

Yeah, I saw that stupid segment as well and it was so damn ignorant. And then it made me irritated when they were saying the part about the morals.

Yep, the dinasours are only 6000 years old and we all just roamed the earth in peace with each other for a while.

Its very frustrating to me that people buy into this. Too bad they made such a beautiful museum with crap for information in it...

[Jun]

Ozzy's have been laughing it up big about that Christian "museum." I don't have a TV, but from the comments I've heard it has been made fun of on TV here.

[Lycorth]

I think non-xians are having an impact. Sure, Xians are fighting back, with bits like the aforementioned CNN "Faith and Values" correspondent, but that's to be expected. People will try and tout whatever it is they believe in or support.

 

The key thing to remember is that we are living in a society vastly removed from the Xian flavor it had even 50 years ago. Things that are seen as abhorrent to Xianity (our attitudes about sex, for example) are more prevalent today than ever. That, and the arguments against Xianity are today more widely-known than ever, thanks in part to the internet. There will be no more "Great Awakenings" except perhaps in teeny little communities where it will be irrelevant, anyway.

 

Xianity will continue to linger for a good time to come, but I think the next few generations will see it finally marginalized to the fringes of society, where it belongs.

[Vigile]

Xianity will continue to linger for a good time to come, but I think the next few generations will see it finally marginalized to the fringes of society, where it belongs.

 

I agree. Youth will abandon it like they did 1950s white washed morality in the 1960s. It will become as uncool as Vanilla Ice. It already has in Europe. The US won't be that far behind.

[Amethyst]

Also, yesterday, I was watching the Tyra Banks show(don't laugh)and there was this fundie woman on there who has a diet plan that is "100% effective." She said that by praying to Jesus you can eat whatever you want and not exercise and still lose weight. I found it funny that every woman in her ministry, including her, looked as though they were suffering from anorexia or bulimia(or both), particularly her. But what impressed me more is that Tyra's audience--and Tyra herself--sorta looked at her like a dork(some were even laughing). They were not buying the Jesus diet.

 

Heh, I tried that as a child. Never worked. Exercise was the only thing that did.

[Lycorth]

I agree. Youth will abandon it like they did 1950s white washed morality in the 1960s. It will become as uncool as Vanilla Ice. It already has in Europe. The US won't be that far behind.

 

Yeah, we just take longer to pick up on European trends

 

Xianity is a dying monster, going the way of all unwanted social trends - and being increasingly viewed as just that, another trend.

[Unknowing1]

Xianity is a dying monster, going the way of all unwanted social trends - and being increasingly viewed as just that, another trend.

 

 

I so hope you are right.

[Lycorth]

I so hope you are right.

 

As do I. Though I think it's reasonable to assume that there will be no more great revivals of Xianity en masse. People just know too much about it today to be suckered in on such a large scale anymore. I can't help but view the flag-waving Ameri-Protestantism so prevalent in my new neck of the woods as just the last gasp of an otherwise defunct idea.

[Ramen666]

I am also seeing this change starting to become more and more common. I think Xtianity is starting to get its rock chizzled at and people are begining not to buy into as much. I certanitly believe that a lot of the internet population is leaning more towards and atheist/agnostic group.

 

Just go on youtube, game sites, anything that deals with religion. You will see a good majority of the internet users do oppose it. Could it be, because of the culture is begining to be advanced.

 

I follow up on sometimes what the Pope says just because it does reflect sometimes on society. When the Pope went to Brazil he was ashamed how much people are just out in swimsuits and the church society has changed. The church may not be going away anytime soon but the church is begining to adpat more to societies as more secular in some parts of the world.

 

I believe people are more skeptical about religion now than they ever been. (From what I see). I talked to my friend who I haven't talk to in a long time and some how are conversation turned relgion. my fault. I was testing to see where he stood, ironically even as a Christian he seems a bit skeptical a little. Which is vary odd...do I think he may change to athesim, no but I know he knows something is not right within his belief system. I like making Christians think and get the stunned look. I even through out contradictions in the Babble. He is willing to look into it and see what I am talking about and when he comes to my college next year I will show him more than meets the eye.

 

But we are progressing in a way, atheism seems to get best heard on youtube right now and we need people opposing things the church does, says,ect. I don't care really if they worship Gawd but don't let it bother me and reflect my life in any way. I am ok with it.

[garrisonjj]

This morning I was watching good morning America, and I managed to catch the tail

 

Jessuschrist! Now there is a pray to jesus diet? I guess you can buy the package at Wal Mart!

[Robbobrob]

On my rush hour drive home, I sometimes listen to Christian radio. I guess I am a glutton for punishment with bad drivers and bad commentators.

 

Anyway, yesterday they had on some guy talking about DNA and evolution. He kept talking about the comparison of humans to monkeys. Pissed me off. Another strawman arguement that the host of the show was chuckling and saying, "Very true," and "excellent point"

 

I really need to stop listening to that garbage, but I have a strong need to know what opposing opinions think.

 

Why aren't these radio shows held tothe same standards as mainstream talk radio? Awful double standard of stupidity.

[Garnet]

On my rush hour drive home, I sometimes listen to Christian radio. I guess I am a glutton for punishment with bad drivers and bad commentators.

 

Anyway, yesterday they had on some guy talking about DNA and evolution. He kept talking about the comparison of humans to monkeys. Pissed me off. Another strawman arguement that the host of the show was chuckling and saying, "Very true," and "excellent point"

 

I really need to stop listening to that garbage, but I have a strong need to know what opposing opinions think.

 

Why aren't these radio shows held tothe same standards as mainstream talk radio? Awful double standard of stupidity.

 

What standards of mainstream talk radio? Ever listened to Hannity or Limbaugh? They're just as bad. In some ways, perhaps they are worse.

[BCRoyWatson]

This morning I was watching good morning America, and I managed to catch the tail end of a special segment. It was about a Christian museum attempting to prove that god created dinosaurs.

 

Located in my home state, unfortunately. Those types are such an embarrassment.

 

I wouldn't agree that non-Christians are "finally" having an effect; it's more like a continuation of a slow progression. I can remember when any sort of protest against someone preaching inappropriately would be dismissed by the media as the deluded ravings of atheist fools (who were surely a bunch of goddamned Communists!).

 

Later on, hard-core Christianity seemed to fall out of fashion, and attempts by fundies to impose their values were met by a well-organized opposition that was acknowledged by the media to be legitimate. Ironically, you can probably thank Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, etc. for that; many elements of the media were happy to air the views of those who opposed the "religious right," but did so for political reasons. Had that not happened, I suspect that the Republican party would be somewhat less right-wing than it is today (there are many of us Republicans who agree with the core party platform on things like judicial restraint, foreign policy, economics, etc., but who also dearly wish the fundies would just go away.) But I think it would also mean that unflattering portrayals of Xtians in entertainment (e.g, the movie "Saved") wouldn't be as permissible in the present as they've become; nor would relaxed standards of what sort of erotic content, etc., is acceptable in movies. Part of the reason those sorts of things have "opened up" is because of a backlash against Falwell et al.

 

Now? Overall, the treatment seems to be "give the fundies their air time if it's newsworthy, but keep it in its place." I'm not speaking of opinion shows or religious networks, but of mainstream journalism. I didn't catch the national coverage, but from what I saw of the local (KY) TV coverage, the stations simply presented the news story and went no further. It does amuse me that in one of the local papers (Lexington Herald-Leader), there's an entire section on Sunday devoted to "Faith and Values" ... but then again, a lot of people around here do go to church, which means that church-related events are news. And I can tell you that most of the media outlets around here regularly get complaints that there's not enough religious emphasis or coverage; I don't think I've ever seen a complaint that they devote too much time and space to it.

 

So ... we're gettin' there, slowly but surely ...

 

- Roy

[WCrystal]

...

 

And if you can lose weight through prayer, why are all the church ladies so wide?

 

Because it's called eating and drinking like a fucking pig. (thanks latin divas of comedy for that one)

 

But jesus ladies on the Tyra show? That's funny.

[Guest Bright]

Regarding this Creationist "museum" - why does the word of god need a museum, is it now obsolete? - and how it should help strengthen the believers' faith, I'm thinking "why do they need this, if God is real?" Of course, God is a human invention, and stories like this only help make this point.

 

I would love to go visit, though.

[BCRoyWatson]

Regarding this Creationist "museum" - why does the word of god need a museum, is it now obsolete? - and how it should help strengthen the believers' faith, I'm thinking "why do they need this, if God is real?"

 

Well, being from the same state the museum is in, and having had a lot of first-hand exposure to the local fundies, I can offer a couple of guesses.

 

They definitely don't see it as obsolete .. but to be fair, a museum doesn't have to concern itself with obsolete things. I doubt that many think that airplanes and space travel are obsolete, yet there's the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC.

 

From what I've discerned and observed, the three motives that seem to come into play, for which I'll try to give a fair presentation as best as I understand it, are:

 

1) A belief that society in general is trying to shut them up. The way they see it, they can't pray in school or at public events any more, they can't get their viewpoint across in the major media, etc. They also believe that creationism and evolution can't both be correct (about the only thing on which I agree with them) ... and so any endorsement of evolution, including even a statement that it might be correct, is necessarily a statement against creationism/God/etc., whether the person endorsing evolution wants to call it that or not. To them, the idea that some things are appropriate for science and scientific study, while others are appropriate for religion and religious study, is a false and misleading dichotomy. Imagine if some perverse psychologist cherry-picked episodes in which Hitler was nice, friendly, etc. around his friends, then spent two weeks presenting those episodes to a group a schoolchildren as a "case study" to illustrate the idea that Hitler was really a good guy ... and every time some child or parent objected that the dude killed millions of people, started WWII, etc., the teacher would respond, "the topic of this class is psychology as exhibited through social interactions; that is, how a person interacts with those he or she encounters directly. You're talking about history, which is an entirely different field of study. If you want to learn about and discuss those sorts of things, you're free to take a history class or read history books from the library, but it's off topic here." That's the way they see it. To them, teaching evolution while saying "creationism and similar ideas aren't science, so they're out of bounds in this classroom" isn't having anything like a fair debate, it's one side twisting the rules of the game to exclude the other side altogether.

 

2) A desire to express what they believe is the shared moral sense of the community, coupled with the conviction that they're in the minority. Something like, "Look at how things are today. You can't even talk about God anymore in public without being treated like you're a damned fool, and if you use the word 'moral' people treat you like you're talking about something dirty. Meanwhile, any eight year old can download all the pornography he wants off the Internet. Janet Jackson flashes the entire country, and most people just laugh about it. In Hollywood, they treat the holy sacrament of marriage like a dog license; get one dog, and when you get tired of it, just get rid of it and go get another one. And in San Francisco, it's open and publicly condoned blasphemy! And it's not just sex. Murderers and rapists get off with little more than a slap on the wrist. Politicians can do any damned thing they want and as long as they go on Oprah, shed a few tears and bawl 'I'm sorry!' afterward, all is forgiven. Nobody's held accountable anymore; nobody's ever really responsible. But we're not like that. We're a Christian community, we've still got our heads on straight, we're proud of it, and we're not gonna hide it away or apologize for it, we're gonna proclaim it to the rest of the world."

 

3) A belief that the ultimate topic of discussion is God, eternity, heaven, hell, etc. -- the most important matters of life, which are just far too important for discussion to be subordinated to things like the law, the fact that it might really bother others, someone else's perception of "good taste," etc. To them, not speaking out about God, etc., because of other such matters would be analogous to not alerting people in a theater that the building was on fire because of a concern that it would be impolite to interrupt the movie.

 

I'm not endorsing those viewpoints, obviously, but I've tried to be fair in presenting them, and I honestly think that if a hard-core fundy does check in at some point, he or she would be comfortable having their motives represented like that.

 

I would love to go visit, though.

 

I haven't been ... it's about as far away from here as one could get and still be in the same state ... and I don't think I will either. Not because of anger, disgust, or anything close to it; just that I've heard it all before, and I'm sure if I saw a depiction of some dude standing next to a brontosaurus, my reaction would be "yeah, so what?"

[Luke Wolf]

Non-Christians are definitly having an impact. Just look at the stuff that is shown on TV, the anti-religious right groups, and a comparisin of society 50 years ago. People were upset over The Beatles, and today we have Ozzy.

 

Defcon has also managed to get tens of thousands of signatures against the Creationism Museum, and according to one political webstie, 455,000 emails protesting the Left Behind computer game. I'm also feeling to lazy to find links for that right now.

[Guest BFD_Zayl]

We can only hope.