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Goodbye Jesus

My Unbearable Dilema


soor

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Soor, my heart goes out to you. Deconversion was a very lengthy process for me. Much of my life was spent seeking for answers that don't exist. At age 17 I received believer's baptism; that is the normal age for the church I was born into. I trusted my mother and the other adults who said I would understand (the answers to my many questions) when I got older. By the time I was forty I realized that I was now "older" and I still didn't know. (This will be boring for old-timers; feel free to skip it).

 

I'm fifty now and did a degree in theology over the past few years. The professional theologians have no answers, either. They won't even address my question. Officially, my deconversion happened late last summer but I had been thinking about it for a much longer time. When the Christians wouldn't have me anymore I decided I must have deconverted. That was right about the time when I found this group.

 

When I first tried out the idea of the possibility that there might be no god, the universe felt so empty. However, after about eight months I found that I felt okay with it. It so happened that a fundy asked very specific questions about my beliefs right about that time and when I said that I am not a traditional Christian he wouldn't let me go until he obligated me to tell him more. I know now not to allow that (obligation) to happen again. But who knows--they are so slick that it can happen almost without me knowing where things are headed. I guess I will have to think up an answer for when things get to that point.

 

My deconversion had some pretty severe consequences where relationships with family are concerned but they're not the only people in the world. I located a freethinker group in my area and hope to meet up with the leader one day. Let me assure you, it has not been easy for me. The exC group here helped a LOT. I am single and have no children. It also feels really good to know that there is social life outside of church groups, i.e. Freethinkers. This is one of those towns where there's a church on every street corner.

 

I'm pretty far out in the suburbs but there are close to half a dozen places of worship within a fifteen minute walk from where I live. And lots more within half an hour's walk. I know very few people who do not identify with some religion or other. For example, I know more people who identify as Muslims and Jews than I know who identify as atheists or agnostics. Hopefully that will change when I get to know this freethinker group.

 

Hmmm. Let's see. I'm counting atheists and Jews on my fingers. I'm not sure of which group I know more. Okay, I know three people who identify both as Jewish and as atheist. I guess Jewish is more cultural in some cases than religious. As indicated by all those churches, most of the people I know are Christian of one brand or another.

 

Praying was another matter. Several years ago it was impressed on my mind so distinctly that "Prayer is wrong," that I have not been praying for quite some time. The most difficult times for me are when I look at my very insecure financial situation. I've really seriously wanted to pray but I reminded myself that this is wrong. Eventually, the anxiety passes. Or I find someone I can talk to about practical solutions. It can also help by just talking to myself and affirming that I do have legitimate reasons for feeling anxious.

 

There are also times when I feel so loved. That has been really seriously curious. What brought on that feeling if there is no god? Hormones, maybe? Or some other biological processes? That is what I tell myself, and I enjoy it while it lasts because who can't do with a few moments of feeling just plain good? For what it's worth, I didn't have those feelings while I was Christian. Hormones probably have more to do with it than religion but who knows?

 

In answer to your question: Yes it does get better. And my experience is not identical to yours. Based on the testimonies of former Christians, each person's deconversion is unique. But one thing many of us have in common is questions that Christians cannot or will not answer satisfactorily. Or the unshakable conviction that something about religion is fundamentally wrong. I hope you will soon find a measure of assurance that you made the right choice and that life is enjoyable. Mine has been more enjoyable since I slipped off the yoke of religion. Why? Because no longer does my every decision have eternal consequences.

 

If, by any chance I am wrong about this, I am sure an all-knowing God will understand that I did not do it out vengeance or anything sinister like that. I think if we know how to overlook blunders in little children who are trying to "help" then surely God knows how to overlook my blunders as I seek my way through this life.

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Thanks for your post. it really mirrors my life.

name='RubySera' date='Jun 7 2007, 02:05 AM' post='285067']

At age 17 I received believer's baptism; that is the normal age for the church I was born into. when I got older. By the time I was forty I realized that I was now "older" and I still didn't know. I'm fifty now and did a degree in theology over the past few years. The professional theologians have no answers, either. They won't even address my question. Officially, my deconversion happened late last summer but I had been thinking about it for a much longer time.

This is almost me. I came to Christ when I was 15 I am now 40 and the last few years some pretty intense study. It is weird that after much study is where I can't find God...he doesn't speak to me...I don't know he is there.

I am 40 now and you are 50, do you ever feel mad that you lost all those years at what you could have done but didn't because of religion?

When I first tried out the idea of the possibility that there might be no god, the universe felt so empty.
I am here right now, very empty, very alone, very confused, lots of questions.
My deconversion had some pretty severe consequences where relationships with family are concerned I located a freethinker group in my area and hope to meet up with the leader one day. Let me assure you, it has not been easy for me.
I told my wife, she was stunned but as usual very understanding and said she would support me on whatever decision I make. She is worried I will no longer be the same person. I assured her that her and our son are the center of my life. I don't know if we have an ex Christian gorup in our area but I would love to talk to some as I have many questions I struggle with.
Or the unshakable conviction that something about religion is fundamentally wrong.
I often felt when hearing preachers talk on the radio or tv that it smelled like a cult.
If, by any chance I am wrong about this, I am sure an all-knowing God will understand that I did not do it out vengeance or anything sinister like that. I think if we know how to overlook blunders in little children who are trying to "help" then surely God knows how to overlook my blunders as I seek my way through this life.
I have thought about this. If God is real, can he really hold it against people who earnestly searched for him yet didn't find him. People who seek him and he didn't answer. Is it their fault? If faith is a gift from God isn't it for him to give? Some will say you just rejected the gift, but that is nonsense because people who search for faith don't reject it.

 

What was the clincher for you that finally made you give up your faith/belief? also I would like to hear from others..what made the rest of you quit your faith/belief? was there one specific thing or maybe 2 or 3?

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This is almost me. I came to Christ when I was 15 I am now 40 and the last few years some pretty intense study. It is weird that after much study is where I can't find God...he doesn't speak to me...I don't know he is there.

I am 40 now and you are 50, do you ever feel mad that you lost all those years at what you could have done but didn't because of religion?

 

I'm not quite as old (only 29) , but I thought I'd comment on this anyway, I was very angry after my de-conversion, and still am at times. I only lost 5 or 6 years in the religion, but most of that time was spent in college.

 

My grades may well have been better if I hadn't been spending all my time in bible studies, I might have met more interesting people, developed hobbies, and actually spent time bettering myself for the job market and thinking about what I wanted to do when I graduated, instead of "leaving it in gods hands"

 

Furthermore, after my de-conversion I no longer felt comfortable asking for references from the people I had been friends with in college..lest they bring up my faith in the reference they wrote.

 

Overall, I felt like being a Christian set me back quite a bit....I've just learned to deal with it over the years.

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What was the clincher for you that finally made you give up your faith/belief? also I would like to hear from others..what made the rest of you quit your faith/belief? was there one specific thing or maybe 2 or 3?

 

There's a few threads that have dealt with this topic:

There may be others, but I found these by searching for the phrase "last straw". There's another more recent one that I know I'm missing, but I couldn't find it.

 

Also, here's a thread about how others have found new meaning for their lives:

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=16499

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I would have to go back a couple years to figure out what really started me down the path of leaving Christianity, and it basically started with a pamphlet someone circulated at church (as a joke, almost) about why the King James Version 1611 isn't the only perfect word of God. Someone at another church had given it to a man at my church, I guess. Since I was raised in an extremely KJV-only environment, this caught my attention. I had also read at some point the book God's Secretaries about the translators of the KJV. Those two things started me thinking that maybe it wasn't true what I'd been taught about it. The cracks kept getting bigger until eventually the whole structure crumbled around me and I saw the light of reason gradually show me a different way of thinking. I also became involved in a volunteer sewing group 2 or 3 years ago, in spite of some objections from the pastor and my husband, and that let me see that folks in other religions weren't so bad to be around. Probably the most difficult moment was when I told my husband about my losing faith or not wanting to go to church anymore, and he was upset and left the house for a few hours. I wanted to take it back and unsay it so it didn't rock the boat. The pastor started driving wedges between my husband and me, at least from some things I've heard. They would discuss that maybe I really wasn't ever saved to start with (I'm 33 now and was raised from age 6 in fundy Baptist churches and was very faithful and compliant and so on.) and another friend told me that he heard talk that maybe I was demon-possessed and that I didn't believe the KJV anymore, which was a very grave matter indeed ;o) So all in all, the hardest times for me have been dealing with "friends" from church trying to convince me I'm wrong, or haranguing me. They didn't keep it up for very long, mercifully. Then it was basically the cold shoulder from some and others have continued to be my friends.

The Bible contradictions are a large part of what helped me decide there is lack of sufficient evidence for a divinely inspired word of God, in whatever translation. The immoral conduct attributed to the Old Testament God is another big factor for me. For example, we know it's a horrific thought to kill one's own child, yet somehow it was okay for Abraham to decide to do it because he thought God told him to? That makes no sense to me at all now. Of course, they try to explain it away saying that he knew God would either prevent it or raise Isaac from the dead since he had already promised him a line through him. Whatever. I don't buy that now. I could go on, but it's just sickening to think about.

I hope that helps explain a little where I'm coming from, Soor.

 

Sparkyone

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Soor,

 

You sound like you are where most of us were at one point. It's very difficult and painful to extract Christianity from your psyche. Even though you are in the first steps, you are realizing how much Christianity has affected you. It's a process of letting go and learning to move on.

 

You are a smart guy. You need to give yourself time to figure it out. You will in time. It doesn't happen overnight. You are lucky that you have a supportive spouse, many don't.

 

Taph

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Dear Soor,

 

I believe you'll become an atheist when/if you're convinced in your heart it's the thing you want to do. Until then, I suggest you be very patient with yourself and don't try to force yourself to reject your belief in a god. If you try to force yourself to become something that you're not ready to become then what's the difference between the bondage of Christianity and a bondage of forced atheism?

 

Having questions about your beliefs in a god is difficult. For myself, I'm no longer a Christian, but I still believe in God. Just because I don't believe the bible doesn't mean I have to throw out my beliefs that there is a God. This website is for ex-Chrisitians. It doesn't mean exclusively ex-god believers. One size doesn't fit all in any area of life.

 

The idea of life without God seems very meaningless to me, too. I look at the world and say that it had to come from somewhere. "From nothing, nothing comes." I think we had to come from something. I don't know what that was. Nobody does. So, if you or I decide to believe there is a god then it's okay. I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone. I respect any atheists decision to believe differently from me.

 

Coming to the point that I didn't believe the bible was the inerrant Word of God anymore was extremely scary. But, once I made the clear decision based on common sense and deduction it was a simple choice. I believe people understand truth the second they hear it. They don't need any commentary. They don't need some man expounding the intricacies of Greek or Hebrew to them to understand how to live. If we don't do to others what we don't want them doing to us we'll live far more peaceably on earth than with all the intollerance forced on us in the bible. Think about it: How many parents go to bed at night and pray," Oh God, Please let my children believe 1+1=2 in the morning when they wake up!! Please God, don't let them 'fall away' from believing the math!!" Nobody prays that prayer. Why? They don't have to. Children get the math...they get it. From the time a parent goes from giving their child a cookie for one hand to giving them a cookie for both hands the child learns how to add. Presto! At the age of 6 months a child learns that two cookies is more than one. They get the math. I believe truth works exactly like that. When we hear it, we know it. There's no mental fight. There's no struggle to believe it. It just fits.

 

You seem like a fine and decent person. I have two children and understand your deep love for your child, Soor. Wanting to be with your child forever is a natural, human desire. I think the biggest thing you can do for yourself is relax. Decide to trust yourself. If you want to pray, then pray. If you don't, then don't. It's amazing how much help people can be for one another. Folks on this site understand your fears and concerns. You don't have to apologize for believing in God just because many folks on this site are atheist. Plenty aren't. Just take what folks suggest and do with it what you will. If you think what I've written is a bunch of trash then throw it away. Do what you believe is right for you. Follow your heart.

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Hey, Soor. Remember that even if you do the research and soul searching and you find Christianity no longer has the same place in your life that it once had, it doesn't mean you have to turn around and become a die-hard Atheist. You can walk away from Christianity and still believe that there may be some guiding force in your life. But that is a very personal revelation and only you will be able to discern which path is best for you.

 

I don't think you are a coward at all. I lost my faith at nineteen, but clung to the hope of it coming back to me for another four years after that. It was scary. I had a father who was a deacon. I wondered what sort of influence I would be on my little brother (who was quite content in his Christian beliefs). How would people at work perceive me if they found out? I tried really hard to hang on hoping that one day I would be in church and hear a sermon that would resonate within my soul and re-allign everything that had become so confusing in my life. For me, that sermon was never preached and I began studying Neo-Paganism at the age of twenty-three. I even tried to go through a period of liberal Christianity and diehard fundie'ism before that, just as a test to see what fit. None of it did. Paganism did and someday something may click for you.

 

It's frightening when something has been a focal point of your life for so many years. But think of this as the closing of one chapter and the opening of another. It can be a scary time, but it's also a very exciting time. It's a time to be who you are, stop living a lie. You are free to be yourself. When you think about it, it can be a time for renewed hope. Dont' fear the afterlife. There are other religions that embrace the doctrine of an afterlife, apart from Christianity. And no one knows for certain what happens to our bodies and our souls when we die. I've had many Christians tell me that we wouldn't recognize one another in heaven, because relationships in heaven are not like worldly ones.

 

We go through life never being 100% certain of what comes after death. We're never 100% certain we've made the right choices or that we're practicing the "correct" religion. All you can do at this point is be true to yourself and make the best of it. Best of luck to you on your journey. :-)

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beth andT heKreativeKat thanks for your replies.

Dear Soor

 

.

I believe you'll become an atheist when/if you're convinced in your heart it's the thing you want to do. Until then, I suggest you be very patient with yourself and don't try to force yourself to reject your belief in a god. If you try to force yourself to become something that you're not ready to become then what's the difference between the bondage of Christianity and a bondage of forced atheism? .
You hit a key word there bondage. I am going through the steps the last couple of weeks and it is has been an emotional roller coaster. I always knew there was something wrong or missing and I just chalked it up as i just don't understand yet what everything means in the bible. I think alot of Christians think like this and it stops them from searching forward. Lately it has been so different for me. I have been searching and researching the bible not from a Christian point of view with bias but as an investigator trying to solve the case. It is amazing what you see and how much your mind opens up when you take off the Christian goggles. In Christianity you are bombarded with apologetics and you believe you are just to accept it without rebuttel. For me searching has lead me to find something I had already suspected and that I needed to be honest with myself about no matter what my emotions wanted. I found the bible is not inerrant,,there are many errors. I also found that the amount of evidence for believing in the bible is no greater then bellieving in other religions. I found if you take all the stuff written on Jesus the religion collapses because it is too contradictory. (the gnostic gospels would debase the 4 gospels that are used now so they could not be used). Even worse how could the only true God the God above all the almighty have come down to save us and tell us just believe and have faith, thats all you need and not leave any proof? Like I said the amount of proof would justify anyone believing any religion. I mean if God had it in his heart to go and save Saul of Tarsus a Christian killer God hating Pharasee, by making sure he was struck down to know who God was then how bout

us who have been on Gods side for years? how bout even on little voice saying hang tight Im coming? but.nothing. To me the evidence is not there. Too many prophecies that didn't come true, too many people in mental anguish looking for God and he isn't there, ask in my name and it shall be give..it wasn't. It makes sense now why asking in his name according to his will as he said and yet nothing......it seems to be a lie. Pity! There has been some good feelings though. I have never had such a sense of freedom. Not that I am doing anything bad...well I had a couple extra drinks on the weekend and it helped me to relax. There has been a great freedom to not worry, and free from fear, and free to think outside the Christian box. However, I am still struggling to make sense out of life. If this is all there is we live for 60 to 80 years and drop dead into nothing that is really depressing. I alway thought as a child many decades ago that even if there werent a God I sure would want one because it would give meaning to life. Not that the God of the bible is ideal. I mean there are things in the bible that make God to be great but then you just read the old testament and this is a very scary God. I truly want there to be a God because it gives hope. But I know just because I want something that is good doesn't mean that its there. This is very sad. I also wish I had a support group around me to help. this is tough going it alone

 

For myself, I'm no longer a Christian, but I still believe in God. The idea of life without God seems very meaningless to me, too. I look at the world and say that it had to come from somewhere. "From nothing, nothing comes." I think we had to come from something. from me. ,.
Why do you believe there is a God? is it just hope?
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Just a quick note. Soor, you don't have to choose between christianity and atheism. Right now focus on whether or not you believe in the christian claims. That seems like a healthy and rational thing to do in my mind. Where you land later on will come in time and who knows or who cares where that might be?

 

I'm an atheist because I spent years examining claims and they all came up short for me. I became an atheist by default, not by choice. I'm no different now than I was when I was a believer. I still feel like the same person. Just a bit freer now that I shed some baggage of a belief system that was weighing me down. Whereever you end up, if you find now that your belief system is weighing you down, then just discard that which no longer makes sense. Beyond that, let tomorrow take care of tomorrow.

 

That's my advice anyway.

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I'm an atheist because I spent years examining claims and they all came up short for me. I became an atheist by default, not by choice. I'm no different now than I was when I was a believer. I still feel like the same person. Just a bit freer now that I shed some baggage of a belief system that was weighing me down.

That's my advice anyway.

 

Thats funny because that is how I feel. I am really no different just freer. And you are right, for me it is about the claims coming up short. Where is God? comes up very short

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"Feeling free" is a keyword. That's the emotion that was and still is the strongest in me. Somehow the religion that claims to make you free doesn't live up to its promise, while leaving it gives you that freedom.

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Soor, I was a bible believing Christian for 25 years. I left the faith 7 years ago. The last 10+ years of being a believer were very hard on me. A lot of biblical based self imposed guilt and sadness. Giving up my faith was one of the happiest days of my life. The only thing I regret about leaving was that I had ever believed in the first place.

I kept a haphazard journal for some of the waining years of my Christian experience. If you care to, read it here. Not long, perhaps a 10 minute read.

I can understand you feeling rather alone in your journey, but you are not, at least in the sense that so many of us have had simular experiences. I didn't have anyone to talk to personally during all those years I was having faith trouble. Even when I was in the church, there was no one I felt I could talk to. And since I have left the faith, I am still pretty much alone. Sure, I come accross on line communities such as this one, but I have absolutely no one I can talk to face to face concerning thoughts on religion. I do not know, personally, another atheist, and I have been one for 7 years.

Anyway, I may not be able to help, but I will gladly listen.

 

lets_reason@yahoo.com

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I kept a haphazard journal for some of the waining years of my Christian experience. If you care to, read it here. Not long, perhaps a 10 minute read.

I can understand you feeling rather alone in your journey, but you are not, at least in the sense that so many of us have had simular experiences. I didn't have anyone to talk to personally during all those years I was having faith trouble.

lets_reason@yahoo.com

 

Thanks for your post and your journal, I really loved it and I could so relate to. I especially loved the freedom part because I have started to feel alot of the freedom.

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"Feeling free" is a keyword. That's the emotion that was and still is the strongest in me. Somehow the religion that claims to make you free doesn't live up to its promise, while leaving it gives you that freedom.

Almond to that! :grin: Every day I live I experience that. Leaving church is what allowed me to become what church keeps you from becoming: a living, breathing, healthy human being. Funny how Christianity promises a fulfilled life, yet it can never be realized until you don't listen to them anymore and just start living a sincere life. If there is an antichrist, it's Christianity itself.

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