Mentally Challenged Christian's Posts

[michie_s]

"Atheism has killed knowelde and destroyed the basis of learnign and litteracy."

 

WOW...I almost pissed my pants laughing at this one. Even typing now I have tears in my eyes. Can we use this as a slogan...it's just too priceless!

[Eccles]

One of the most mentally challenging rants of Christianity is the Nicene Creed. Take these lines:

"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

(Where did this "God" live" before creating heaven")

 

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

 

I can't remember any alleged quotes by Jesus in the bible where he claimed to be the son of "god". He claimed to be the "Son of Man".

[L.B.]

Here's a few:

 

"Anyone who doesn't know Christ as savior, even a nuclear physicist... he's a fool... the Bible says he's a fool. All his so-called knowledge is just the wisdom of men."

 

(This quote, by the way, is from a preacher who regularly fucks up the English language and can't even conjugate verbs he reads in his precious King James Bible. Example: he reads, "borne along by the Holy Ghost" and he proceeds to tell his class that the Ghost "borned them along" or that It "bornes people along". He talks like fucking GWBush, even to the point of saying NOO-KYA-LUR.

 

How about these:

 

"Jesus just told me that he wants us to turn the lights down low... you ever slow-dance with someone? Jesus wants to slow-dance with his bride right now in the spirit... he wants to, now hear this in the spirit... he wants to nuzzle you... nibble on your neck..."

 

TOTALLY SERIOUS. I heard the preacher say that with my own ears at a 'worship service'.

 

"I was praying in the spirit in my hotel room... I felt something in the spirit, and a demon manifested himself as a Spanish Conquistador... I took up the sword of the spirit and began warring with him in the heavenlies... I dodged and parried and thrusted... praying in a heavenly tongue the whole time... the spirit gave me victory and I vanquished the Spanish Conquistador."

 

No fucking joke. These guys are seriously fucked up. I have years' worth of shit to tell like that, so any time you need a good laugh, just PM me or something.

[Guest JP]

Well, I registered in Biblocality, and the guy kept using the fameous "the bible says it so it must be true" arguement. Whenever I questioned anything or made a point that he didn't agree with, I recieved an "infraction". Fuckhead. We should totally raid that place.

 

Oh, another interesting fact: the guy that runs biblocality said that he got banned from this site (probably for being a stupid piss urchin).

 

I see you met the famous Troy! He pops up on here about twice a year and posts his infamous "Four Perfect Proofs for the Existence of God." He usually lasts a day or two before getting banned.

 

Getting "infractions" aren't hard over at Troy's place; you're lucky he didn't ban you on the spot for disagreeing with him!

[Robbobrob]

Wow, I just popped over to Troy's site. He loves making up words, and he loves being in complete control.

 

I think I answered fewer questions to get my driver's license, marriage certificates, and mortgage then it takes to register at his forum.

 

What a whack job. No wonder he likes coming over here, there are so few rules, he can truely be free (for a few days at a time).

[wishful]

Since my departure from my church and my husband. I was on a church e-mail mailing list. Now its seems like I'm getting a ton more now then before.

 

 

The other day I received a e-mail from a friend who is NOT talking to me anymore, but instead sends me prayers and religious up lifting stories

 

anyway I was just about to delete this one e-mail, till I saw this topic.... SO.... here it is ... have fun.

 

 

 

 

New Pledge of Allegiance

 

Since the Pledge of Allegiance

and

The Lord's Prayer

are not allowed in most

public schools anymore

Because the word "God" is mentioned... .

A 15 year old kid in Arizona wrote this

NEW School prayer for himself:

 

Now I sit me down in school

where praying is against the rule

For this great nation under God

Finds mention of Him very odd.

If Scripture now the class recites,

It violates the Bill of Rights.

And anytime my head I bow

Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,

That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.

The law is specific, the law is precise.

Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall

Might offend someone with no faith at all.

In silence alone we must meditate,

God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,

And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.

They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.

To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,

And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.

It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,

We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.

We can get our condoms and birth controls,

Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.

But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,

No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,

When chaos reigns the school's a mess.

So, Lord, this silent plea I make:

Should I be shot; My soul please take!

Amen

[Antlerman]

New Pledge of Allegiance

 

Since the Pledge of Allegiance

and

The Lord's Prayer

are not allowed in most

public schools anymore

Because the word "God" is mentioned... .

A 15 year old kid in Arizona wrote this

NEW School prayer for himself:

 

Now I sit me down in school

where praying is against the rule

For this great nation under God

Finds mention of Him very odd.

If Scripture now the class recites,

It violates the Bill of Rights.

And anytime my head I bow

Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,

That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.

The law is specific, the law is precise.

Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall

Might offend someone with no faith at all.

In silence alone we must meditate,

God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,

And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.

They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.

To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,

And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.

It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,

We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.

We can get our condoms and birth controls,

Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.

But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,

No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,

When chaos reigns the school's a mess.

So, Lord, this silent plea I make:

Should I be shot; My soul please take!

Amen

This is really quite pathetic in how it whines "We're so victimized!". It doesn't once try to understand any reasons for why there may be any merit to them having the free reign they've assumed through the years be pulled back for the sake of balance and fair play. I would have far more respect for their "faith" if they were to say, "Yes, we understand we're not entiled to special recognition and we respect everyone's right to believe and practice what's meaningful to them.

 

But instead you have these sorts or arrogant, judgemental, and disrepectful comments (put into the mouth of some poor school kid for emotional effect, like some bleeding country-music type song). Let’s examine and critic these good examples of Christian love letting their lights so shine before the world:

 

“Our hair can be purple, orange or green,

That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.”

Obviously talking about how ridiculous things are OK, but being Christian is not! However I know a lot of Christian kids who are doing this too and it seems OK in their churches. That’s right, they’re not True Christians™)

 

“The law is specific, the law is precise.

Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.”

 

No one calls praying a vice in the Law. This is a false pleading, “They call us bad for praying”. I call them bad for lying! Which this is.

 

“For praying in a public hall

Might offend someone with no faith at all.”

 

Yes of course, why shouldn’t it? We can well imagine what they would say to see a coven gathering in the hallways, or Muslims praying as a group to Mecca in the halls. There are appropriate places for everything. And yes, I take offense at someone praying for me too when they know I don’t believe as they do. It is offensive. Take responsibly and quite whining “I’m so victimized”. Poor wannabe martyrs.

 

 

“In silence alone we must meditate,

God's name is prohibited by the state.”

 

Another lie from a follower of the Light of the World. Where is the name of God prohibited by any law in any state? This is about protecting the rights of others from you, since you don’t have common respect on your own without a law needing to be enacted! Christ’s sake, aren’t Christians supposed to act with sensitivity that comes naturally from a heart supposed touched and changed by Love????? Very telling indeed.

 

“We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,

And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.”

And here shines that loving heart that Jesus has changed! “Freaks”. Yep, Remember, where one finger points, four are pointing back – hypocrites.

 

“They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.

To quote the Good Book makes me liable.”

Where is the bible outlawed? Can I please see where Bibles are considered “illegal”? No? Again, being a liar. That’s a sin, don’t you know?

 

“We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,

And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.

Right! We shouldn’t elect those terrible sinners! Yeah, disgusting humans they are! Why should we afford them decent human respect and love ahead of you being able to hold prayer meetings where they don’t belong! Yes. Scum! That’s what they are.

 

One finger out… four fingers back.

 

It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,

We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.

Whose right from wrong? Yours? Hmmm… mighty one-sided of you to presume so much… maybe that’s what’s behind your ARROGANCE.

 

“We can get our condoms and birth controls,

Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.

But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,

No word of God must reach this crowd.”

And you can’t study the Bible? Are you saying those are all terrible bad things, and you are so good? No wonder they need to control you. You are out of control, you disrespectful sorry excuse of a human who using God as a justification for their narrow-minded bigotry. Hypocrites. They no more allow the devotional study of Wicca in the classroom then you aren’t allowed either. What makes you special? Your own opinion of yourself?

 

BTW, “This crowd”? Is that a put down? Why, with everything else said, it sure sounds like it. The grace of Christ just exudes from your pours, drawing all men closer to love and truth.

 

“It's scary here I must confess,

When chaos reigns the school's a mess”

Chaos? You say that when things aren’t just as you see they should be, this qualifies as chaos? Such a narrow-minded idiot. What you have by these rules, is an attempt at order, not chaos. You are complaining about rules. You are complaining because you are self-centered and egotistical and think everyone who doesn’t think like you are freaks and living in chaos.

 

You are an idiot, and your whining is as obvious and pathetic as a five year old being told to behave themselves because they don’t know how to share with others. And you are an adult. Maybe becoming Christian doesn’t do anything very good for people since you seem no better a human for it.

 

“So, Lord, this silent plea I make:

Should I be shot; My soul please take!”

Yes, that would be sad, but considering what you offer humanity, perhaps not much loss.

 

 

Boy, that really struck a bad chord with me. Brought back a lot of vinegar to spit out from those days. Saw this too much back then. Glad things are going better for you Wishful. Sorry for my rant above about the writer of that garbage.

[ShackledNoMore]

It's actually disturbing that recipients of drivel such as this are expected to placidly nod their heads in agreement without thinking about how much support there is for the claims.

 

If I may follow Antlerman's lead and also look at some of this stuff:

 

"Since the Pledge of Allegiance

and

The Lord's Prayer

are not allowed in most

public schools anymore

Because the word "God" is mentioned... ."

 

OK, I knew this wasn't true, but I just asked my daughter to prove it. Sure enough, it's not only patently false that the Pledge of Allegiance is not allowed, the kids are led to say it every day, including the "under god" part, just like when I was in school.

 

As for the lord's prayer, we were not forced to recite that or participate in any other prayer in public school when I went, so there's no change, at least not as long as the evangelical crowd doesn't succeed in making America a total theocracy. We were also at liberty to say that prayer or any other privately as much as we wanted, and that hasn't changed either.

 

"If Scripture now the class recites,

It violates the Bill of Rights."

 

Doesn't the 1st amendment grant freedom of religion, and prevent enforcement of a state sponsored religion, thus preventing the public schools from indoctrinating the kids with it's religion of choice, not limited to, but including all flavors of xianity. Has there been any change to the 1st amendment within the past generation?

 

"Our hair can be purple, orange or green,

That's no offense; it's a freedom scene."

 

Bzzzzzzzz. Not at my kid's school. I've read the dress code. It's rather conservative. Perhaps my county is uniquely "right thinking" in contrast to the rest of the country? Perhaps because she's in a younger grade and not yet in high school? Google to the rescue.

 

From http://www.bmezine.com/news/legal/20050407.html

 

Hair Color

 

The ACLU has gotten behind a number of hair color cases and won. For example, the ACLU of Virginia won a $25,000 award in legal fees against a school board that suspended a student for coloring his hair blue. The district court’s decision in that case was based on a 1972 Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, Massie v. Henry, holding that students have a “right to wear their hair as they wish as an aspect of the right to be secure in one’s person guaranteed by the due process clause.”

 

However, in many instances these cases do not make it to court as the schools tend to reinstate the multicolored-haired students once the ACLU intervenes.

 

What is also interesting is that often those students that win their battles against restrictive dress codes are those that have excellent academic records. The ACLU’s press releases on student appearance cases are filled with the words “honor roll” and “model student.” In school, as in life in general, personal excellence has the ability to break down walls of appearance-based discrimination.

 

So I can see where the claim comes from, but it doesn't seem like a slam dunk for purple hair to me.

 

"Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall

Might offend someone with no faith at all."

 

I'm not refuting anything here, but just as an aside: force the kids to participate in a public prayer to, oooooh, say Gaia, and watch the sparks from the xians fly.

 

"We're allowed to cuss"

 

Then why, in fact, are kids suspended for foul language?

 

"And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks."

 

Uh no. This is a more brazen misrepresentation than purple hair. Piercings and such have not fared well in the courts. Check the web page above or find out how optimistic the ACLU is about it at http://www.aclupa.org/education/studentsri...hooluniform.htm

 

"We can get our condoms and birth controls,"

I was a bit surprised to find that this bore out to some degree, two separate sites said that there were condom availability programs of some sort or another at more than 400 schools nationwide, but that's still an incredibly tiny percentage.

 

"They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.

To quote the Good Book makes me liable."

 

Well, I cringe now, but I carried around a pocket New Testament and plenty of tracts in high school, and that's as protected now as it was then, and even more tacitly encouraged. Even in elementary school, I'm hearing about kids who have "shared" their religion.

 

If I was a xian, I don't think that I'd want to try to spread my religion by weak, unsupported, and easily debunked rants, but naturally that's par for the course. I guess there's a connection there as to why I am no longer a xian.

 

The schools damn well BETTER not get free reign to brainwash the kids to the majority religion.

 

I didn't mean to rant either, but I couldn't help but comment on something like that.

[Mad_Gerbil]

You simply MUST get my quotes from FSTDT.

I've got some truly great material there.

[wishful]

Hey Antlerman, I want to thank you, that was very good. It makes me feel good when people know how to write down what I've been thinking for years. I re-sent it back to my friend or soon to be ex-friend I think.

 

I just wanted to re-post what she sent me back.

 

 

wishful (Mary), Go back and tell that Antlerman???

 

since when does the use of hyperbole, especially in poetry, or in any other form of literature, constitute "lying?"

 

the author of the poem's point is well taken. i didn't think he/she expected it to be examined line by line with a fine toothed comb. the overall point that was made is correct, whether you agree or not.

 

i would say that the "whininess" of the very small minority who attempt to determine how the rest of us go about our lives far outweighs any whininess you may note in this poem. considering that the great majority of the people would likely agree with what is written in the poem, their restraint in allowing themselves to be trampled by a small minority is, in my view, commendable.

[wishful]

Hey Antlerman, I want to thank you, that was very good. It makes me feel good when people know how to write down what I've been thinking for years. I re-sent it back to my friend or soon to be ex-friend I think.

 

I just wanted to re-post what she sent me back.

 

 

wishful (Mary), Go back and tell that Antlerman???

 

since when does the use of hyperbole, especially in poetry, or in any other form of literature, constitute "lying?"

 

the author of the poem's point is well taken. i didn't think he/she expected it to be examined line by line with a fine toothed comb. the overall point that was made is correct, whether you agree or not.

 

i would say that the "whininess" of the very small minority who attempt to determine how the rest of us go about our lives far outweighs any whininess you may note in this poem. considering that the great majority of the people would likely agree with what is written in the poem, their restraint in allowing themselves to be trampled by a small minority is, in my view, commendable.

 

Oh ya Marks sent a mass e-mail also, here is his reply to your post I sent to Sharon.

 

Can you believe these comments by Wishful's new friends..............."Chaos? You say that when things aren’t just as you see they should be, this qualifies as chaos? Such a narrow-minded idiot. What you have by these rules, is an attempt at order, not chaos. You are complaining about rules. You are complaining because you are self-centered and egotistical and think everyone who doesn’t think like you are freaks and living in chaos."

 

Seems to me that most people I talk to, Christian or not, all pretty much agree that the way things are in the schools anymore is out of control. 14 and 15 yr. old girls pregnant, drug use, guns, knives, look at all the school shootings over the last several years. And calling people idiots? Whats up, Wishful? I thought your friends were beyond such name calling. Are you trying to tick us off or do they do that naturally?.

[Oldjew]

"I believe in "doing to others as I would have them do to me"!!! If I ever turn into a homosexual bent on having sex with men, I want you all to expose me as a non-believer lost in sin and preach against this abominable SIN!!!!

 

PREACH THE TRUTH, NOT LIES!!!!!"

 

"The sin of Homosexuality affects more than just the person, it affects many folks around him....Think of Aids for one....How would you feel about Rosy Odonell raising your children?"

 

Trouble with those statements is there is no place in the bible that condemns homosexuality nor is it even mentioned any where in the bible except in the rewritten Fundy bibles.

 

Every verse they claim they have taken it from is an out right lie. I was an ordained college educated pentecostal minister for years having three churches and I understand the bible quite clearly as I never twisted things around as a Fundy loves to do.

 

If there were really a god everyone of these lying Fundy assholes would be condemned to spent eternity in hell for adding on to God's word which it clearly states in two books of the NT that anyone that adds or takes away from God's word he shall take away from their book of life.

 

Fundies are just plain stupid dumb and irrational.

 

A Christian after all is just an immature, insecure brainwashed individual whom will not listen to reason and logic but prefer to live in a twilight zone between reality and fantasy. A world of shadows, dreams, make believe and fairy tales lost stumbling in the darkness blinded by false promises, false hopes and borders on insanity.

 

When I was a Christian I was so swept up in the fantasy I believed it and when I was freed I felt total free and totally alive for the first time in my life. I felt really "born again" then.

 

These theist are temporarily insane and absolutely do not know it so trying to reason with a mentally ill person can not be done because they don't think rationally or understand logic.

 

They will have to climb out of the pit they fell into on their own as most of you have.

[Oldjew]

"Atheism has killed knowelde and destroyed the basis of learnign and litteracy."

 

Duh I tink thay no knot howe two spall. I tink thay nede two goe bach two skool anne larn two spall rite.

Eye whent two callage sewe eye no howe tooe spall anne thay due noot.

[Antlerman]

Hey Antlerman, I want to thank you, that was very good. It makes me feel good when people know how to write down what I've been thinking for years. I re-sent it back to my friend or soon to be ex-friend I think.

 

I just wanted to re-post what she sent me back.

 

 

wishful (Mary), Go back and tell that Antlerman???

 

since when does the use of hyperbole, especially in poetry, or in any other form of literature, constitute "lying?"

 

the author of the poem's point is well taken. i didn't think he/she expected it to be examined line by line with a fine toothed comb. the overall point that was made is correct, whether you agree or not.

 

i would say that the "whininess" of the very small minority who attempt to determine how the rest of us go about our lives far outweighs any whininess you may note in this poem. considering that the great majority of the people would likely agree with what is written in the poem, their restraint in allowing themselves to be trampled by a small minority is, in my view, commendable.

Hi Wishful, To respond to the above, it is not the use of poetic license I'm seeing that I'm calling lying. I know what poetic license is. I myself use it when, much to the dismay of some, I will use the work "God" to describe certain aspects of nature that have a certain transcendent quality about it. However, none of this propaganda (I can't call it a poem really just because it uses hallmark-style rhyming - poetry actually speaks to the spirit, whereas this is just political waste matter), has any real value to humanity because it deliberately distorts things for political ends. This is political, and those who swallow this are ill-informed, and seem all too happy to hear what reflects their frustrations in dealing with change in their culture.

 

Is it the minority telling the majority what to do? Not really, it's more the system of justice that tries to level the playing field for all in the interest of equal respect that is telling the majority to allow for differences. But a negative attitude that that is certainly what comes across in this Hallmark-style religious/political rhetoric. What I really hear instead is a weak person downing other humans because they don’t like sharing the floor with anyone who doesn’t look, act, or believe just like them. Shame on you! You call that a Christian attitude? And you marvel at how those like me could possibly reject the beliefs you hide you narrow-minded attitudes behind? Answer me honestly, is this what you consider being a saved Christian? “By their fruits…………….”

[Antlerman]

Oh ya Marks sent a mass e-mail also, here is his reply to your post I sent to Sharon.

 

Can you believe these comments by Wishful's new friends..............."Chaos? You say that when things aren’t just as you see they should be, this qualifies as chaos? Such a narrow-minded idiot. What you have by these rules, is an attempt at order, not chaos. You are complaining about rules. You are complaining because you are self-centered and egotistical and think everyone who doesn’t think like you are freaks and living in chaos."

 

Seems to me that most people I talk to, Christian or not, all pretty much agree that the way things are in the schools anymore is out of control. 14 and 15 yr. old girls pregnant, drug use, guns, knives, look at all the school shootings over the last several years. And calling people idiots? Whats up, Wishful? I thought your friends were beyond such name calling. Are you trying to tick us off or do they do that naturally?.

In response to Mike's criticism above:

 

To respond to the criticism of my calling the mind that spewed that pile of social rhetoric an "idiot" at that point in their long barrage of put downs of others, I find it again very telling how much of a big deal you make my using a harsh word on them, yet you have no problem accepting all the preceding such words from the upright young Christian who calls his classmates that look different than himself, "freaks". Or frowning on a pregnant girl being honored by classmates, or putting down those with colored hair, etc, etc, etc. I guess you're right; it's terrible to call someone an idiot, unless you're a Christian saying it.

 

Isn't that a bit hypocritical Mike? But I guess if you can point out a flaw in my manners, then you can disregard the content. When reason fails you...

 

As far as Chaos goes. Are there problems in the school? I'm sure there are. Is it chaos? Even the situation over in Iraq isn't considered chaos.... yet. Are you saying people being allowed to be elected a home-coming queen who are pregnant qualifies as chaos? Is orange and green hair, chaos? You see my point? Using the term chaos is being exploited to call things you don't like socially because it's not your culture. We're not talking about violence in the school, which clearly is a problem that everyone can agree on needs to be dealt with more effectively. We're talking about tossing everything else that you don't like about changes in culture and custom into the pot called "chaos".

 

I remember those words of Archie Bunker singing that theme song,

 

"Boy the way Glen Miller played,

songs that made the hit parade,

guys like us we had it made,

those were the days."

 

"And you know where you were then,

girls were girls and men were men,

mister we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again,

didn't need no welfare states."

 

"Everybody pulled his weight,

gee our old Lasalle ran great,

those were the days."

 

Things were so clear when men had short haircuts and girls all wore dresses and stayed at home raising kids. You knew where the dividing lines were and life was simple. Then the Chaos of the sixties came and people weren't looking and acting the same. Everything was falling apart and the devil was working to destroy our way of life!

 

Let's go back to the 1920's, same thing. Rebellion in the streets with women wearing flappers. The suits the men wore were obscene and rebellious.

 

Every new generation is the worst ever, going all the way back to the earliest civilizations. Yet, here we are. We figure things out, we go through hard times, we learn, grow, and adapt. Calling these periods of change "chaos" is a politically reactive language. It's not chaos. It's not evil. It's change.

 

Why must Christians politicize their religion?

[Ouroboros]

Every aging generation has complained about the new young one. I can't remember which Greek philosopher, but one of them have a quote complaining about the youth.

[Antlerman]

Every aging generation has complained about the new young one. I can't remember which Greek philosopher, but one of them have a quote complaining about the youth.

I was trying to find that quote. I think it was Aristotle, or maybe it was Plato. One of those two I'm sure. Grandpa is sure to know. He's such a repository of encyclopedic knowledge.

[Ouroboros]

Every aging generation has complained about the new young one. I can't remember which Greek philosopher, but one of them have a quote complaining about the youth.

I was trying to find that quote. I think it was Aristotle, or maybe it was Plato. One of those two I'm sure. Grandpa is sure to know. He's such a repository of encyclopedic knowledge.

Those two were the exact ones I thought of too, but I couldn't find it the quote.

 

I remember my parents hated the music I listened to when I was a kid. Now my kids tell me that my music is old... Nah, not really, because I'm into Heavy Metal, Techno, Trance etc. Oh, and I'm going to Nocturnal in LA next Saturday! Yay! With my oldest son. My son#2 can't go, he's under 18.

 

These guys are playing:

STAGE ONE: THE LABYRINTH - The Chemical Brothers (Live), Paul Van Dyk (In a rare exclusive performance for his fans, Paul van Dyk will be LIVE joined on stage by a drummer, keyboardist and several vocalists from his new album "In Between"), Christopher Lawrence, Uberzone (Live), Joaquin Bamaca. STAGE TWO: THE BIG TOP TENT - Carl Cox, Benny Benassi, D. Ramirez, Mark Knight, Audiofly. Stage Three: Sunkin Garden - Sharam (DEEP DISH), Jimmy Van M, Matthew Dekay, Nicholas Bennison, Boris M.D. STAGE FOUR: BASSRUSH - Hype, LTJ Bukem, Friction & SPMC, Subfocus, Fresh, Simon Bassline Smith + many more!

 

PvD is one of my all time favs. I went to Tiesto a couple of weeks ago. Awesome!

[Antlerman]

Here we go. It's from Plato's Republic Book 4, attributed to Socrates,

"I mean such things as these: — when the young are to be silent before their elders; how they are to show respect to them by standing and making them sit; what honour is due to parents; what garments or shoes are to be worn;

the mode of dressing the hair

; deportment and manners in general. You would agree with me? — Yes."

 

Then Plato himself saying,

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions.

Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?

"

 

And for good measure, from Hesiod in the 8th Century BCE,

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint"

 

There you go Marks and followers. As the writer of Ecclesiastes says, "There is nothing new under the sun". No, this is not Chaos Mike! The problem is not children, it's you, you old fuddy-duddy!

 

Now maybe you understand the context in which I'm seeing that whole so-called poem?? It's the complaint of every generation going back at least 3000 years! "Nothing new under the sun".

 

Edit: Except the sad thing about it is it's the complaints of the older generation being parroted by an indoctrinated child - that's what irritates me the most about this: exploitation! I look forward to your intelligent response Mike (Marks).

[Mad_Gerbil]

Anterlerman:

 

I'm not a historian - but given those quotes how long after those quotes did the respective societies find themselves defeated by a foreign power? I honestly don't know.

 

Meh Gerbil

[ShackledNoMore]

Anterlerman:

 

I'm not a historian - but given those quotes how long after those quotes did the respective societies find themselves defeated by a foreign power? I honestly don't know.

 

Meh Gerbil

I am not a historian either, but this is a worthy question, and I thought it was worth doing a little checking on...

 

It turns out that Hesiod lived near the beginning of the Classical Greek period, so that it was on the shoulders of the frivolous, reckless youth of the generations after his, that ancient Greek rose to its greatness.

 

Plato did live toward the end of the Classical Greek period. That doesn't necessarily mean the Greece declined because of the degradation of the youth of the day. Again, I'm not a historian, but it looks like the end of the Classical Greek period was different from the decline of the Roman Empire. Also there were only a few hundred years between Classical Greece and the height of the Roman Empire. Fledgling Western civilization was not lost during that time as it was during the Dark Ages from the decline of the Byzantine Empire through the Renaissance.

 

Between Hesiod and Plato and what I've seen in my lifetime, it looks like every generation has lamented the decline of the next. I've also been alive long enough now to get a little extra perspective that I didn't have before. My first insight was when I was in my 20s and heard for the first time from someone in my generation how disrespectful, out of control, and unlike us the younger generation was, just ten years younger. "That's not true!" I thought. And now, having paid attention to my parents' generation and drawn some conclusions, I think I have some insight into where every generation stands on this from around the 1920s and now. With the alleged decline of each successive generation I should think we'd be violent cannibals living in caves by now.

[Ouroboros]

I'm not a historian - but given those quotes how long after those quotes did the respective societies find themselves defeated by a foreign power? I honestly don't know.

So very true. Every culture and civilization is doomed to falter and die. They all did. And every religion is also bound to crumble up and slowly wither away because of re-interpretations and re-design of it's fundamental ideas. And that is because religion is politics, and politics is religion, and politics isn't about the absolute, but it is tied to the underflow of currents in culture, and the same goes for religion, and the currents change, and so will politics and religion.

 

I don't know how old you are MG, but in 10-20 years you will start noticing that the Ol' Time Religion isn't that old time version anymore. That was something I noticed during my Christian years. What we were supposed to believe at the end of the phase wasn't the same that I believed in the beginning of it. But during the whole time I heard the things preached like they were the "original" and "root" beliefs. It changes, and to stay a "true" and "unchanging" Christian, you have to go with the waves... how absolute is that?

[Mad_Gerbil]

I don't know how old you are MG, but in 10-20 years you will start noticing that the Ol' Time Religion isn't that old time version anymore. That was something I noticed during my Christian years. What we were supposed to believe at the end of the phase wasn't the same that I believed in the beginning of it. But during the whole time I heard the things preached like they were the "original" and "root" beliefs. It changes, and to stay a "true" and "unchanging" Christian, you have to go with the waves... how absolute is that?

 

I'm 40.

I've spent the last 20 years having a bitter argument with American Christianity.

Somewhere in there it bred with American Culture and produced one large horrific monster.

[Ouroboros]

I don't know how old you are MG, but in 10-20 years you will start noticing that the Ol' Time Religion isn't that old time version anymore. That was something I noticed during my Christian years. What we were supposed to believe at the end of the phase wasn't the same that I believed in the beginning of it. But during the whole time I heard the things preached like they were the "original" and "root" beliefs. It changes, and to stay a "true" and "unchanging" Christian, you have to go with the waves... how absolute is that?

 

I'm 40.

I've spent the last 20 years having a bitter argument with American Christianity.

Somewhere in there it bred with American Culture and produced one large horrific monster.

You see, evolution does work. Maybe monsters are better survivors?

 

You're my age, so you must have seen the changes to the religious beliefs too?

 

---

 

Wait a minute. It's Sunday morning. Aren't you supposed to be in Church with all the other bobble-heads? Did your bitter argumentation cause you to be thrown out? I guess the Ex-Church shows more tolerance.

[Mad_Gerbil]

Wait a minute. It's Sunday morning. Aren't you supposed to be in Church with all the other bobble-heads? Did your bitter argumentation cause you to be thrown out? I guess the Ex-Church shows more tolerance.

 

I lit a candle in church for you today, HanSolo. I knelt to pray and as I did so my tie ignited when it got too close to the candle. As the polyester in my cheap, navy blue, 3-piece suit began to melt on my chest I charged the altar looking for holy water. I grabbed the wine instead which caused the fire to spread to the altar. A general panic ensued. The choir boys tried to get me to stop, drop and roll but their robes started on fire as well. Apparently the anti-static spray they put on those things is extremely flammable.

 

Suffice it to say I've spent the last 3 hours in an emergency room being treated for burns. I've been told that the entire church and rectory are currently engulfed by flames. Three separate fire departments have been called and the local media reports that 3 people are dead because they got trampled.

 

I've decided that I'm not going to pray for you anymore, HanSolo.

Merely mentioning your name in church causes all Hell to break loose.