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sorry if I am in the wrong section. I wasn't sure where to put these questions.

Christians use these points to prove Christianity. I would like your input on them as I am new to the forum and searching for answers.

 

1-if evolution is real how come there are no transitional fossils ever found?

2-If Jesus was a hoax why would followers die for a lie?

3-If Jesus didn't rise from the dead wouldn't the authorities just produce his body and silence them?

 

I appreciate your input

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1 - it's a fallacy... do a wiki search

2 - Question with a question - Why did Jim Jones' followers or David Koresh followers, the ones who were in on the lie, die along side their master?

3 - Until about 50 - 100 years after Jesus there is little evidence that anyone thought he'd come back. Who'd know where the body of one Jewish terrorist was 50 years down the line?

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sorry if I am in the wrong section. I wasn't sure where to put these questions.

Christians use these points to prove Christianity. I would like your input on them as I am new to the forum and searching for answers.

 

1-if evolution is real how come there are no transitional fossils ever found?

2-If Jesus was a hoax why would followers die for a lie?

3-If Jesus didn't rise from the dead wouldn't the authorities just produce his body and silence them?

 

I appreciate your input

 

 

1- http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

2- If Allah was a hoax why would followers die for a lie?

3- why would the authorities give a hoot? The Christ cult didn't just spring up suddenly.

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1-if evolution is real how come there are no transitional fossils ever found?

First of all, the word "species" isn't as black and white as you think. There isn't one specific definition that goes well to describe all "kinds" of animals. Look into the term Ring Species for instance. How can a chain of animals of slightly small difference be able to interbreed, but the first and last individual in the chain can not breed with each other?

 

The explanation is that "species" is a term we apply to explain rough differences between groups of individuals of living beings. Basically your mom and dad are transitional "species" between your grand parents and you. So every living being is a transitional form.

 

Theory of Evolution teaches you that macro evolution is happening through micro evolution. Small changes over time causes big changes. And not a crocodile gives birth to a croco-duck who then gives birth to a duck, so you will never find a croco-duck.

 

Think about how Evangelical Christianity evolved. Can you for instance find a Southern Baptist Jew?

 

2-If Jesus was a hoax why would followers die for a lie?

I heard about atheists dying for their un-belief, would they die for a lie? We die for what we a convinced is the truth, especially when we get pissed at those who try to convert us, be it to or from Christianity. Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus etc also die for their beliefs.

 

3-If Jesus didn't rise from the dead wouldn't the authorities just produce his body and silence them?

Not if it was a only a story. Can you prove to me that Dumbledor really died in the Harry Potter books? Well, since you can't produce the body, Dumbledor must be alive.

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The explanation is that "species" is a term we apply to explain rough differences between groups of individuals of living beings. Basically your mom and dad are transitional "species" between your grand parents and you. So every living being is a transitional form.
Damnit, Hans, I thought I was original when I came up with that!
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Damnit, Hans, I thought I was original when I came up with that!

I kind of understood it before, but couldn't explain it this way until the debate on TV between WotM and RRS. :)

 

--edit--

 

In all fairness, Soor, can you answer why you believe that Jesus did rise again? Where you there and saw him die, and then saw the empty tomb? You believe in something someone told you, and you trust your parents and/or teachers and/or preachers and a book some people wrote who you never met or sat down and talked to. You have had more conversation with me and more evidence that I exist than them, and that even after just one or two posts between us two, and yet you prefer to believe some Mathew or Mark that you don't even know if they existed. Isn't it you that hold on to a thin thread of evidence for your faith if you compared to some million fossils, DNA evidence and even experimental evidence for evolution?

 

 

(Sorry, I shouldn't force you to bring up a debate about your faith, but I just want you to compare evidence and experiments against each other. Which "faith" has the heaviest support of factual and substantiated proof?)

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Yeah, that's probably where I first thought it up too.

Even though I have some opinions about the debate or the form of the debate, some good stuff came out from it. :grin:

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1-if evolution is real how come there are no transitional fossils ever found?

 

Babblical cretinists, if they ever define what they call transitionals, do it in a way that's totally absurd and that no scientist with half a brain would ever postulate (like snakes with "half wings" et al).

There's a reason why the finding of real transitionals is rarely reported - it's so damn common that all papers et al would have no place left for anything else.

 

See also www.talkorigins.org/indexcc (Index of creationist claims - damn good resource for handing cretinists their own arse, probably the best one on the web).

 

2-If Jesus was a hoax why would followers die for a lie?

 

Dying for a lie is absolutely not uncommon. Think of hitler's wehrmacht soldiers or those of the red army... or today's islamist suicide bombers.

Kind of makes this "argument" worthless, no? ;)

 

3-If Jesus didn't rise from the dead wouldn't the authorities just produce his body and silence them?

 

www.jesusneverexisted.com

 

The name says it all. Also a damn good resource, highly recommended.

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1-if evolution is real how come there are no transitional fossils ever found?

2-If Jesus was a hoax why would followers die for a lie?

3-If Jesus didn't rise from the dead wouldn't the authorities just produce his body and silence them?

1. There actually are. Any half way decent biology books that cover evolution will have cases of these.

2. The original "followers" aka, Apostles, were not real. When the NT was wrote, it was so far after the supposed time frame Jesus lived, no one would know for sure if he really lived or not.

3. Either they don't care, his body was intentionally moved, Jesus didn't die, or Jesus never existed.

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See also www.talkorigins.org/indexcc (Index of creationist claims - damn good resource for handing cretinists their own arse, probably the best one on the web).

 

Post #3 above :HaHa: It is definately a good source.

 

I can't see how Christians can't understand evolution, dinosaurs, the age of the Earth and universe, the origin of humans etc., but they can believe in talking snakes, dragons, unicorns, leviathans, satyres, a guy fitting all the Earths animals into a boat!, a guy walking on water, a guy coming back from the dead, angels,.....................

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(Sorry, I shouldn't force you to bring up a debate about your faith, but I just want you to compare evidence and experiments against each other. Which "faith" has the heaviest support of factual and substantiated proof?)

I am not debating faith at all. I am just searching.

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(Sorry, I shouldn't force you to bring up a debate about your faith, but I just want you to compare evidence and experiments against each other. Which "faith" has the heaviest support of factual and substantiated proof?)

I am not debating faith at all. I am just searching.

And Soor, I truly and totally respect that, because it shows that you are willing to question ideas and beliefs in your own life. Regardless of what your conclusion will be in the end, at least you did honestly try to understand and ask the unthinkable.

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Well, it's true, it's just how the forum system is setup. Christians are flagged as Apologists and Calvinists etc. That's just the automated grading system. Sometimes our super mods assign something different for the heck of it, but pretty much regardless of affiliation to what cult of Christianity they're all called apologists in the forum program.

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Soor,

Correct me if I'm wrong but you are an Ex-C and no longer an Apologist?

I was given the title apologist by the board I didn't have a choice in it. As far as your question, I started down the road about a year ago and now it seems to have greatlly accelereated that is where I don't want to be ignorant of the facts. So I am trying to make as much of an informed decision as I can. I don't want to debate with anyone nor am I looking to push one belief or another I am not. I am here because I have read peoples testemonies and this is what I am going through. So I am trying to get information from those who have been where I am at and how they coped with it.

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Man am I ever glad that I went through my deconversion in my teens.

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You've come to the right place. :)

 

One thing you have to think of is to detach emotions from your decision or search for truth (or the best approximation of truth). Most of religious beliefs are based on what people feel about it, not what they know or have studied, so I truly believe you're doing the right thing.

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1-if evolution is real how come there are no transitional fossils ever found?

 

There have.

 

2-If Jesus was a hoax why would followers die for a lie?

 

Because the person who is being lied to generally doesn't know it's a lie.

 

3-If Jesus didn't rise from the dead wouldn't the authorities just produce his body and silence them?

 

I appreciate your input

 

Why would they care?

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I agree with Hans that you've come to the right place Soor. I applaud you for having the courage to examine your faith. My best wishes go out to you as you try and sort through it all.

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2 - Question with a question - Why did Jim Jones' followers or David Koresh followers, the ones who were in on the lie, die along side their master?

 

I'll add to that, why do many of the Branch Davidians still believe their cult is the only true Christianity? Hardcore belief is a curious thing.

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Well, it's true, it's just how the forum system is setup. Christians are flagged as Apologists and Calvinists etc. That's just the automated grading system. Sometimes our super mods assign something different for the heck of it, but pretty much regardless of affiliation to what cult of Christianity they're all called apologists in the forum program.

I'm intrigued now... how does the AI spot it?

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Well, it's true, it's just how the forum system is setup. Christians are flagged as Apologists and Calvinists etc. That's just the automated grading system. Sometimes our super mods assign something different for the heck of it, but pretty much regardless of affiliation to what cult of Christianity they're all called apologists in the forum program.

I'm intrigued now... how does the AI spot it?

 

I'm wondering about that too. I'm currently flagged as "doubter," even though I've explicitly stated that I'm an atheist, and have said nothing that implies that I have any personal doubts at all that "gods" are a creation of human beings with no real basis. I really couldn't care less about the tag itself; I'm not going to take personal offense at it. But I am curious as to how that determination is made.

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