Ouroboros Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 The doctrine of hell is one of the main things that kept me a Christian for so long. I was afraid of hell. I followed Pascal's wager. Eternity is a very long time.I stayed a christian just to be on the safe side. That’s the purpose of the doctrine, and not about justice as has been claimed. Justice is when the punishment matches the crime. If I was a god and created a universe with living creature in it, I wouldn’t require their belief in me as a key point, but that they just follow some basic rules like respect each other and don’t kill each other. I wouldn’t care if they believe in me or not. And especially I wouldn’t keep the creatures alive for an eternity to be punished in severe pain for such a small “crime”! In society we have people that have different opinions about the government. Not everyone agrees to what the Prez is doing, yet we’re not put in a torture chamber for the rest of our life because of it. So we show more mercy than God. TAP, you have no idea how courageous the people are here. To look past the fear of hell and start to examine the evidence with an open mind. We believe so much that Christianity is a deception and a man-made falsehood, that we are willing to risk eternity on it. Every one of us knows that if we are wrong, we will pay a horrible price. And it's scary sometimes. But, we continue to assert that christianity is utterly false. And we poke fun at God and Jesus. What does that tell you about our convictions. Yes, Mythra, you said it! I didn’t think of it that way, and you’re right. It takes some spine to stand up against eternal damnation. It does prove our conviction, doesn’t it? As it says in the scriptures, "to thine own self be true" Or, was that Shakespeare No, it was you, right now! Oh, and p.s. I resent your term "walked away from it" To me, I got free from it. Halleberrylujah!!! I AM FREE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I was referring to Bob's post. Really? Oh. I backtracked and I still couldn't tell for sure. Ah well. Perils of the Thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfunkman Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I think I'll go take me in a Haiku. Peace, peace, peace......... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You mean like the "Peace" that's been in the "Holy Land" for the last 3000 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Hans reminded me.. About the term "walked away from it".. I guess that statement is o.k. if you think of it in the same terms as the convicted criminal, who, after being incarcerated in prison for 25 years, was let out of prison and then "walked away from it".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 If hell were not part of the Christian Faith, would you have still walked away from it? What else would have to go for you to be able to accept it? Tap <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Your demonic murdering beast god would have to go...along with his supposed words in the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silent One Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 If hell were not part of the Christian Faith, would you have still walked away from it? As a Jehovah's Witness, I never even believed in the concept of Hell, so I can be positive I still would have walked away. What else would have to go for you to be able to accept it?Tap It's not about how much has to go, to be able to accept it. Frankly I agree with you, you either accept it, or you don't. I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Interesting question... My initial reaction is yes...and no. Yes I would have walked away from it as I didn't get out due to a fear of hell or any other fears for that matter. As I have mentioned before I got out as I didn't feel the bible was consistent or overly plausable. The other part of the answer is that I may not have dug as deep and read as much if I wasn't trying to figure out how an all loving god ignored his children and would create a place like hell. Hell wasn't the issue I was trying to figure out when I started to read straight through, but it is something that makes you wonder what it all means. I am not sure about the second part of the question. I think it is more an issue of finding proof or experienceing the "personal relationship" than taking something else away from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Good question TAP, Like many others, the hell doctrine was not my reason for leaving. That there was never Hell Doctrine, was one of the last things that I learned about before I actually quit believing. Biblegod is described as being cruel and wicked, it describes an evil people throughout it's pages and many horrid things are done with approval or actually caused by the biblegod. On top of that there are numerous errors and contradictions that just cannot be explained away. When I was wakened to the FACT that eternal torment is never mentioned as punishment in the MAIN books of the Jews, which is the first 5 books of the bible, that was a true eye opener. Then I started fearing gods terrible detailed punishments listed for end times in the prophecy books of the OT and was scared of worshipping Jesus as another god. If you really really, want to learn about why the Jews DO NOT accept Christ you would benefit by reading the first 5 books and then also the major and minor prophets of the OT. There is just no getting around the fact that there is no way, that the man that taught eternal torment, would be accepted as their Messiah. Just another interesting fact......never once is spending eternity in heaven in those books either. Over ONE THOUSAND YEARS pass between Adam and Moses alone, never mind the rest. It was all about the land. Not ONE mind you, not ONE person was ever promised an afterlife nor eternal torment....final death was all that happened. Final death was the punishment for Adam and Eve's disobedience. Remember when you read the bible that decades and centuries pass during the pages of the bible. In all that time NOT A WORD about an after life. Do not Christians find that a little, odd? **a side note....3 decades of believing in hell screwed with me to the point that, the fear of it rears its head now and then despite the overwhelming biblical evidence that there is no hell. However, I KNOW how the facts stand and the fear is starting to go away. It's a psychological damaging effect after having believed something for so long. *** <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for a great post! By the way, I have seen this question before asked to christians.....why is hell not mentioned in the first five books? Their answer: Because God had not revealed his plan yet..... My answer to the thread question is NO, it would not make any difference. What I have seen in that OT is enough to make anyone sick..... I want nothing to do with it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 The "hell" part of the belief was one of the main reasons I stopped believing, but I don't think it would've mattered in the long run because science has disproven so much of the Bible. Another reason I left was the bigotry, so even if hell weren't part of it, the bigotry against homosexuals still turned me against the religion. If the Christian god is supposed to be a god of love, why all the hate? That, and seeing all the people of the church give money to add on to the church things it didn't really need (i.e. expanding the gym for the school. It was a perfectly fine gym the way it was). Christians are supposed to be charitable. Nobody else seemed to notice or care that none of the money was going where it was needed (to the poor). I tried liberal Christianity as well, but after a while, I came to the logical conclusion that it was all just another myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAm_Lucifer Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 What else would have to go for you to be able to accept it? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A little truth sprinkled on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 What else would have to go for you to be able to accept it? To be honest (and you do seem like a nice person)...it would take a partial lobotomy to believe. Never rang true sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 you can be a nice person and still be a fundie. The church i was raised in is filled with such people. So way mine, only they were two-faced and only nice to members of their church. Anyone non-Christian, they were snotty to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 I've gone to liberal Episcopalian services and have liked the inclusiveness and genuine social concern of the congregation. I just haven't understood what's the point, though. The whole things seems sort of cherry picking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 If hell were not part of the Christian Faith, would you have still walked away from it? What else would have to go for you to be able to accept it? Tap The Virgin Birth Divinity of Christ Physical Resurrection first three off the cuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Also, all the atrocities the god of the Babble is depicted as having willingly engaged in. I know it was mentioned already, but he was certainly one pissy bastard, definitely not worthy of any worship at all. Add unto that all the hatreds encouraged in the Old Testament. Hatred for homosexuals, for nonbelievers, for adulterers, etc - all this is found in a pre-Xian Abrahamic text. Judaism doesn't have Hell yet we do not run to it. Go figure. Not to mention the silly crap Grandpa Harley mentioned. And, if there were no Hell, there could be no Xianity to begin with. The whole point of Jebus' life and death was to provide an escape hatch for his most devoted cultists to avoid eternal torment altogether. If there were no Hell to save us from, there would be no Jebus (as if there ever was ). Hell, both the concept of eternal torment and the "love me or I'll make you pay" blackmail aspect of it, is one big reason why many of us either leave or stay away from Xianity, but all the other assorted atrocities and illogical absurdities also play their part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Hmm to your answer. I have no idea if I would have kept with the faith. I converted because of the fear of hel so I have no idea if I would have joined if not for that Fear. To accept it the faith, I would need evidence backed up by science. A non-contridictory religious book and that goes for the God in it also. Basically I would need god to not be so full of shit and create hell and for example not do what he did to Job. I converted because of fear and deconverted because I went into a depression over the thoughts of hell. I knew I was saved but I went into depression because I knew so many of my family, best friends etc .werent by the biblical standard and their were already so many already burning. The concept shook me to the bones and eventually I made a descision to do a little more reading. I tried to find sources to dispprove the concept of hell and eventually came here and read some more. Logic and intellectual analysis of the other concepts from the bible came after I realised I couldnt beleive. At first I still believed but decided to not obey/respect Jebus (god) because I couldnt love a being who would create such a place. So as you have heard, the concept of hell had a huge part in my deconversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Wow, 2 year old thread necromancy. Grandpa Harley really digging into the past here. -grins- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I figured it was worth exhuming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Christianity couldn't exist without Hell. If there were no fires on earth, no one would buy fire insurance. If there is no fire and brimstone in the afterlife, what does christianity have left to sell? Casey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Stuff all... but as a small child 'Hell' for 'Bad People' was the only thing that made sense... having said that, I have put away childish things (I was a blood thirsty tyke) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Wow.. this wins the prize for the best necro-posting of the fuggin' year.. Gramps, if you've got a specific post in a thread you want to reply to, do so by usint cut 'n paste. Draggin this old shit back up in total out of the ground helps kill our services ability to keep the board alive. Pick the very specific information you are replying to, cut and paste it into a new thread if you must, but quit necro-posting and reanimating entire threads of set to bed info. kFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts